Is nature more powerful than science?

Author: Tradesecret ,

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  • Tradesecret
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    I was watching a thunderstorm recently in my hometown.  It began as a rumble in the night.  Low growling. Splashes of light from the lightening as it moved from one end of the sky to the other.  Grey clouds turned to darkness - and the evening turned black. The thunder boomed overhead - the windows shook from the sound - lightening bolts zigged and zagged through the night - even at times looking like they were going to bolt right at me.  

    The trees outside were bending over - threatening to break in two.  The dogs were whimpering inside the doors and wanting to huddle up to us.  The mountains in the distance - which we could hardly make out - were shaking and dancing through the rain. The drops were like bullets horizontally and twisting every way with the wind. The roof was creaking - and the noise of the wind was deafening.  Nature is pretty awesome - very powerful. Mind blowing and so very dangerous when it wants to be. 

    Yet, who or what controls nature? Does science control nature? Does humanity in any of it advanced states control it?  Does it control itself? Science certainly might help to explain it.  And science helps us to explain ourselves.  But what controls nature? What is its driving force? What causes it to do what it does? Instinct! Natural forces! latent scientific principles. Aliens? 

    And as an aside - how do people respond or react or feel about the powerful forces of nature? Are people afraid of thunderstorms? OR do they think oh - well that is just a scientific principle acting out - don't worry about it.  

    Is there a spiritual element to the forces of nature - or is it just basic science? And if the latter, why does it create such emotional responses? 
  • ethang5
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    Why does it create such emotional responses? 
    One might think, because the wind or the lightening could kill you. But we get deeply emotional responses from things that present no danger too. A big sky filled with twinkling stars, a gently lapping ocean at sunset, a quiet forest with few dropping from gree leaves....

    Or even looking into the eyes of your newborn daughter.
  • zedvictor4
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    Yep...I respond spiritually to certain weather conditions.

    In so much as they are able to create a favourable electro-chemical response in my Brain......Which is exactly what spirituality is.


    As for your question....I would suggest that the functions of nature, including brain activity, are observable through science.

    There is not an honest comparison to be made between nature with science.
  • Tradesecret
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    Why not?


  • zedvictor4
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    Because nature is nature and science is science.

    It's like comparing chocolate cake with the recipe book.
  • oromagi
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    Science is the study of Nature. 

    It's like asking if gravity is more powerful than Issac Newton.

    The answer is yes but the question suggests a misapprehension regarding the relationship.
  • ludofl3x
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    And as an aside - how do people respond or react or feel about the powerful forces of nature? Are people afraid of thunderstorms? OR do they think oh - well that is just a scientific principle acting out - don't worry about it.  
    We can see that people react in all sorts of ways. Children are afraid of thunderstorms because they're noisy and scary. Adults can't realy effectively stifle the startle reflex when a loud thunderclap nearby happens, but jumping at the noise doesn't necessarily make one 'afraid' of thunderstorms.  Adults realize that it's a natural phenomenon with a very solid scientific explanation, not Zeus or Thor's hammer. Still, we can react to the forces of nature with awe, right? Have a look at some of the footage of the tsunami in Japan back about ten years ago, if you remember, it was truly awesome. Events like that on some level remind us all how uncontrollable nature is and how we really can only stand by and watch it, hoping it doesn't destroy us. 
  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @Tradesecret




    .
    TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a man, to a woman, and now unknown, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, an admitted sexual deviant, and had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender,


    YOUR BIBLE IGNORANCE IS SHOWING ONCE AGAIN AT YOUR COMICAL AND LAUGHABLE EXPENSE IN YOUR QUOTE POST #1: "Is there a spiritual element to the forces of nature - or is it just basic science? And if the latter, why does it create such emotional responses?" 

    The only emotional response you should have, is the sadness of your complete biblical ignorance upon who is the cause of said forces of nature! Unfortunately, your Bible ignorance has once again NO BOUNDS as shown below in just a few of many examples, where it is our serial killer Jesus that controls all of nature, and not science as you portend, you biblical Satanic fool!

    "He it is who makes the clouds rise at the end of the earth, who makes lightnings for the rain and brings forth the wind from his storehouses." (Psalm 135:7)

    "Under the whole heaven he lets it go, and his lightning to the corners of the earth." (Job 37:3)

    "Then Moses stretched out his staff toward heaven, and the Lord sent thunder and hail, and fire ran down to the earth. And the Lord rained hail upon the land of Egypt." (Exodus 9:23)

    "Then Moses stretched out his staff toward heaven, and the Lord sent thunder and hail, and fire ran down to the earth. And the Lord rained hail upon the land of Egypt." (Exodus 9:23)

    "His lightnings light up the world; the earth sees and trembles." (Psalm 97:4)

    Last but not least, lest we forget our ever loving and forgiving Jesus, as the serial killer Yahweh God incarnate, flooded the entire earth and murdered innocent zygotes, fetus' and babies!  "For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die." (Genesis 6:17)


    *****************  Tradesecret, tell us, when do we get a needed break from your total and complete Biblical ignorance and stupidity?   ******************


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  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @ethang5



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    Ethang5, the run away from biblical axioms, and is on record saying that Jesus is not the Father! LOL!

    YOUR SCARY POST OF TRYING IN VAIN TO REALIZE A NATURE SITUATION: "But we get deeply emotional responses from things that present no danger too. A big sky filled with twinkling stars, a gently lapping ocean at sunset, a quiet forest with few dropping from gree leaves...."

    Huh?  Yikes, if this quote of yours doesn't show you to be"light in your loafers," nothing will, where I can hear you "lisping" as you wrote it!
     

     YOUR QUOTE TO SCARE THE CRAP OUT OF A NEW BORN DAUGHTER: "Or even looking into the eyes of your newborn daughter."

    I can't imagine any new born staring  into your  Satanic face, especially the image you have in your post under your moniker!  As shown ad infinitum, you are Satan incarnate upon this prestigious forum, where I have had to school so many times I have lost count, truly sad indeed.  

    I have had to school your cohort Tradesecret again on who actually created thunder and lightening, where he/she/unknown alluded to science, NOT!  Therefore, for your enlightenment as well so you don't remove one foot to insert the other upon this topic, check out the following link because I truly get tired of always correcting your biblical ignorance as well.

    https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5546-is-nature-more-powerful-than-science?page=1&post_number=8

    You can thank me later.


    In the name of the hung Savior,

    Brother D. Thomas

  • Tradesecret
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
     "Is there a spiritual element to the forces of nature - or is it just basic science? And if the latter, why does it create such emotional responses?" 

    The only emotional response you should have, is the sadness of your complete biblical ignorance upon who is the cause of said forces of nature! Unfortunately, your Bible ignorance has once again NO BOUNDS as shown below in just a few of many examples, where it is our serial killer Jesus that controls all of nature, and not science as you portend, you biblical Satanic fool!
    Oh Brother, nice to see you back and as DAFT as ever. But lovely in any event to see you back. Let's see if you can maintain a civil conversation because really I can't be bothered with your fluff. 

    I will point it out - since you failed to mention it, that I asked a general question and did not make a statement in this regard.  And it was one to make people think, not close down the subject.  

    And I will also point out that you have very generously and pleasingly provided the Scriptures that make my point. So thank you, Brother. I will repeat them as they are worth repeating as they demonstrate the power of the God that we worship and give praise too. 


    "He it is who makes the clouds rise at the end of the earth, who makes lightnings for the rain and brings forth the wind from his storehouses." (Psalm 135:7)

    "Under the whole heaven he lets it go, and his lightning to the corners of the earth." (Job 37:3)

    "Then Moses stretched out his staff toward heaven, and the Lord sent thunder and hail, and fire ran down to the earth. And the Lord rained hail upon the land of Egypt." (Exodus 9:23)

    "Then Moses stretched out his staff toward heaven, and the Lord sent thunder and hail, and fire ran down to the earth. And the Lord rained hail upon the land of Egypt." (Exodus 9:23)

    "His lightnings light up the world; the earth sees and trembles." (Psalm 97:4)

    For completeness sake, I deleted your last verse because as often is the case, you provide a verse and then use it to imply a character trait of Jesus that is not correct.  

    Personally I have been reading and will preach from Psalm 29 this week.  It is an amazing passage which demonstrates the power and majesty of God. It utilizes a picture of nature, specifically a thunderstorm. A storm which one clap after the next - provides peals of thunder - the VOICE of the LORD, which is intended to remind it readers that - some things in our little world reveal to us the astonishing fact that we are not in control.  That there exists things in our universe that can frighten the life out of us - that are outside of our control - that remind us that we are subject to nature.  And is a quite a humbling experience. 

    And friends, that voice of God, is awesome, powerful, and able to change our lives - just as easily as the storm can rip a tree in two, and shake a mountain. Yet, rather than do these terrible things - it can also strengthen his people - but more than this - provide lasting and eternal peace.  A peace which in the ordinary storms of life - is extraordinary. 

    so thank you Brother - for bringing these divine words of God to our attention.  For in those words - the Spirit of God works in ways that provide comfort and assurance of a savior that cares for his people. 






  • ethang5
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    --> @Tradesecret
    ...they demonstrate the power of the God that we worship and give praise too. 

    "He it is who makes the clouds rise at the end of the earth, who makes lightnings for the rain and brings forth the wind from his storehouses." (Psalm 135:7)

    "Under the whole heaven he lets it go, and his lightning to the corners of the earth." (Job 37:3)

    "Then Moses stretched out his staff toward heaven, and the Lord sent thunder and hail, and fire ran down to the earth. And the Lord rained hail upon the land of Egypt." (Exodus 9:23)

    "Then Moses stretched out his staff toward heaven, and the Lord sent thunder and hail, and fire ran down to the earth. And the Lord rained hail upon the land of Egypt." (Exodus 9:23)

    "His lightnings light up the world; the earth sees and trembles." (Psalm 97:4)
    Mighty is our God!
  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @Tradesecret



    .
    TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a man, to a woman, and now unknown, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 comical Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, an admitted sexual deviant, and had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender,


    YOUR INSIDIOUS QUOTE IN YOUR POST #10 OF TRYING TO BAIL OUT OF YOUR EMBARRASSING PREDICAMENT OF NOT MENTIONING JESUS AS THE CAUSE OF THE STORM YOU EXPERIENCED!: “I will point it out - since you failed to mention it, that I asked a general question and did not make a statement in this regard.  And it was one to make people think, not close down the subject.”  

    Your above quote is just another one of your priceless posts where you once again are trying to use a get out of jail card because you didn’t even know these passages in question that i presented to you existed in the first place! LOL!


    CASE IN POINT TO YOUR GENERAL QUESTION YOU STATED:  “Yet, who or what controls nature? Does science control nature? Does humanity in any of it advanced states control it?  Does it control itself? Science certainly might help to explain it.  And science helps us to explain ourselves.  But what controls nature? What is its driving force? What causes it to do what it does? Instinct! Natural forces! latent scientific principles. Aliens?” 

    ADDRESSING YOUR GENERAL QUESTION: Not once did you mention our serial killing Jesus as the impetus of the storm that you experienced, not once! But to slap Jesus in the face once again, you did mention aliens, whether it was being facetious or not,  as the possible cause of the terrific storm! WTF?  Aliens over Jesus the Christ as the cause of the storm as I have shown in the passages that I presented?  What do you think Jesus is thinking about you now as He watches you bypass Him as the real cause of the storm, and where you are guilty of the following passage: "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." (Galatians 6:7)  



    Now, since you addressed my post number 8 showing the forum that you continue to be totally Bible stupid and ignorant, then you have set a precedent to address the following that I mentioned to you in the “where is brother thomas” thread, understood? Yes? Maybe?







    GET BUSY, or are you going to retreat back into hiding once again with shame and remain silent to your Bible stupidity?  We shall see, praise Jesus!



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  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @ethang5 @Tradesecret




    .

    TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a man, to a woman, and now unknown, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 comical Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, an admitted sexual deviant, and had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender,


    YOUR QUOTE IN SHOWING OUR SERIAL KILLER JESUS BEING AWESOME IN YOUR EMBARRASSING POST #10:  "And friends, that voice of God, is awesome, powerful, and able to change our lives - just as easily as the storm can rip a tree in two, and shake a mountain. Yet, rather than do these terrible things - it can also strengthen his people - but more than this - provide lasting and eternal peace.  A peace which in the ordinary storms of life - is extraordinary."

    Yes, our serial killer Jesus is awesome and able to change our lives, even to the point of creating His infamous Great Flood in outright murdering innocent zygotes, fetus' and babies as their mothers watched in horror as their children die a horrific death of drowning. Now, this is certainly changing ones lives to the extreme, wouldn't you agree?!


    YOUR QUOTE IN SHOWING OUR SERIAL KILLER JESUS AGAIN IN ALLEGEDLY CARING FOR HIS PEOPLE IN POST #10:  "so thank you Brother - for bringing these divine words of God to our attention.  For in those words - the Spirit of God works in ways that provide comfort and assurance of a savior that cares for his people."

    No problem with me bringing forth passages that you never knew existed, otherwise you would have provided them in your initial post to prove your godly point! LOL  Using your quote above, how did our serial killing Jesus, that is ever loving and forgiving, provide "comfort" and "cared for His people" when He horrifically drowned them in His Great Flood?  Just imagine the mothers hearing their innocent babies cry out to them and gasping for air as they eventually went under to the ocean deep in pain.   Notwithstanding, Jesus watched them drown a painful death! (Hebrews 4:13)


    Are you putting your running shoes on again, to hide from biblical axioms like your cohort in biblical crime ethang5 does? We shall see! Jesus and I have just begun in showing the membership your Satanic ways, and the easy quashing for same, praise Jesus!



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  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @ethang5



    .
    Ethang5, the runaway from disturbing biblical axioms, AND, on record as stating that Jesus is not the Father! LOL,


    YOUR QUOTE IN POST #11:  "Mighty is our God!"

    Yes, our serial killer Jesus is mighty alright, even to the point of His true modus operandi within the scriptures as follows:

    Jesus is greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent primitive Bronze and Iron Age Yahweh/Jesus god, praise!

    As being the ONLY True Christian upon this forum, I have had to accept the biblical axioms above, and just move on the best way that I can in the 21st century.


    Pssst, ethang5, uh, I don't blame you for not addressing my post #9 to you above in this thread, where I must have hit a nerve pertaining to your true self, which is ungodly to say the least. Sorry. :(



    NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN THAT DOES NOT RUNAWAY FROM DISTURBING BIBLICAL AXIOMS LIKE ETHANG5 DOES, WILL BE...?



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  • ethang5
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    Hey Dee Dee,

    You seem confused. You're spamming the same lame post to multiple threads. Are you ok?

    Remember now, as Ragnar told you, Jesus isn't a member here. Don't listen to the voices in your head!

    Doesn't spamming the same thing over and over using an insipid template get boring? Well, Hari your pal did it for years, and you don't seem any smarter. But I stayed with him for years too, so you and I have a nice long future together. I toast you, and you provide comic relief.

    Tell us again how smart you are because you chose to worship a greedy murderer! That always makes people envy your intelligence!

    Lol! Can the class say "loser"?

    I thought it could. 
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @ethang5
    That wasn't Moses was it?......That was Gandalf wasn't it?......it's so easy to get these fantasy characters mixed up isn't it?

    Mighty is Popeye.
  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @ethang5



    .
    Ethang5, the runaway from biblical axioms and is on record as stating that Jesus is not the Father! LOL

    Once again, and at your embarrassment, your template is showing in running away from my post directed to you within this thread as shown below:




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  • ethang5
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    --> @zedvictor4
     ....it's so easy to get these fantasy characters mixed up isn't it?
    To a racist, all black men are unintelligent. It's easy to get characters mixed up when you think all of them are "fantasy", and then are unable to distinguish your thoughts from reality.


  • ethang5
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    Dee Dee, no matter how long you follow me around like a yapping poodle, unless you put some substance in your post, I'll have nothing to respond to. When that happens, I will just toast you.

    You Dodge all my questions, and then follow me around asking questions. If you are afraid of my questions, yours will get treated like the brainless spam it is.

    Drop the idiot template, answer questions, this is a debate site, not your loony Landover church, and ease up on the lame schtick. But if you only want to be comic relief, the site's clown,  have at it. But you will get treated like a clown. That is just the way life is.

    You forgot the "NEXT:" in your spam above. You know Landover requires you to stay on template!

    Lol! 
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @ethang5
    Real people are real people.....And fantasy characters are fantasy characters.

    And the Jesus character of Middle Eastern folklore, may or may not have been based upon a real person....But his proposed real dad, wasn't.

    As GODS always have been global fantasy characters that represent universal creation and human purpose therein.

    Understanding this, has nothing whatsoever to do with racism.....An analogy to far, so to speak.....
  • ethang5
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    You are the one who has admitted getting mixed up jedthro. I know it is as hard to convince a racist that not all black men are unintelligent as it is to convince a militant anti-theist that not all characters are fantasy. My point was that your confusion can be traced to your inability to distinguish your inner thoughts from reality.

    God doesn't cease to exist because of your delusion. No matter how many times you repeat it, reality will remain the same. Perhaps your repetition is to convince you. You speak of things you know nothing about. You talk as if you could know the claims you make are true. But you are exactly like the guys telling us God is "here" or "there", or that God is "this" way or "that".

    What compels you all to plant yourselves on some corner and drone on and on about your supposed special knowledge will forever be a mystery to me. What makes you think your personal opinion is so fascinating that we want to hear you blab it ad nauseum is another mystery.

    But you are a liberal. You think your thoughts are what reality is. 
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @ethang5
    You think that I am a liberal.

    And hey...We have to put up with ad nauseum theistic droning.

    It's tit for tat...Par for the course.

    And.... "Militant anti-theist"...Love that one......Don't think that I've ever been referred to as militant before.

    More sort of...Realistic Non-Theist...I would say.

    The unruffled, other side of the debate....That spoils the theistic pat on the back club's fun.....Just by being here.....No militancy required.
  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @ethang5



    .

    Ethang5, the runaway from biblical axioms and is on record as stating that Jesus is not the Father! LOL

    Okay, since this is the 3rd time that you have RUN AWAY from my post #14, then it is obvious that you agree with it's content because you didn't even try to refute it, praise Jesus for your enlightenment!  

    Ethang5, we thank you for finally coming to terms with our serial killing Jesus  where He is most certainly biblically described as follows: Jesus is greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent primitive Bronze and Iron Age Yahweh/Jesus god, praise!


    I would discuss these biblical facts with you shown above, but you would be so scared in doing so with me that you would probably pee in your pants and run away once again.



    +++++++++++   DEBATEART Religious Forum members, this is a day to remember as is shown above, in that ethang5 agrees in Jesus being described above is biblically true!  PRAISE! ++++++++++


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  • ethang5
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    --> @zedvictor4
    We have to put up with ad nauseum theistic droning.
    The hilarity. Go to a fish restaurant and complain about the smell of fish. An atheist website won't have theistic droning would it, Einstein? Would it? 

    Don't think that I've ever been referred to as militant before.
    Because you spend all your days in your liberal bubble called Europe. 

    That spoils the theistic pat on the back club's fun...
    So that's why you're here! Wow. You life must be very petty. 
  • ethang5
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    Still empty Dee Dee.

    You have nothing but regurgitated nonsense. You will not get help from Dart Religion forum members. They're too busy  laughing at you.

    You can't discuss any biblical facts. You are unable to discuss any facts. But will Ethan abandon you because you are basically incoherent? Nooo!! Ethan doesn't mind that you are a few beers shy of a six-pack. He doesn't discriminate against the mentally challenged. We are all children of God.

    Lol.