What are conservatives... for?

Author: Double_R

Posts

Total: 207
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
If it's your employer's responsibility to look after your long-term welfare, why even care about things like job security or programs to advance in your career then since it's not your responsibility? Another reason why benefits are a scam against the worker.
Are you nostalgic for 1911?

Or perhaps you're nostalgic for 1214?
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
The number one reason people get fired is from problems stemming from a deeply held belief that they are way more productive than they actually are. These are the people that end up being subsidized by productive workers in a union instead of being justifiably fired.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 23,113
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
5,333 workers died on the job in 2019. Workers make bad choices and take risky jobs all the time. Who would you like to be in charge of your risk-reward analysis? Biden perhaps?

Is that what you are nostalgic for?

Maybe you can be happy locked up in your house while you are content with the "benefits" you earn.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
Maybe you can be happy locked up in your house while you are content with the "benefits" you earn.
I'd prefer not to be fired on a fucking whim.

I'd prefer not to work in an obviously toxic and or otherwise deadly workspace.

And FUCK BIDEN.

And FUCK LOCKDOWNS.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
Is that what you are nostalgic for?
I'm nostalgic for a time in the future when we all collectively and individually forget the word "CONSUMER" and instead replace it with the proper term "WORKER".

That's the shell game they've pulled.

Oh, they say, it's good for "CONSUMERS" they say, it'll lower prices they say.

MEANWHILE ALL THE "WORKERS" ARE GETTING ROYALLY SCREWED.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 23,113
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Ok, are you suggesting that all (or most of) the NON-UNION workers who were wholesale replaced with FOREIGN OUTSOURCED WORKERS were all LAZY ASSHOLES?

It's way more common than you would like to accept. Unions subsidize these broken people.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 23,113
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
I'd prefer not to be fired on a fucking whim.

Then either invest in job security by producing more than you are worth or take all the risks of employment upon yourself.

I'd prefer not to work in an obviously toxic and or otherwise deadly workspace.
Then choose not to. And don't mock the people that do choose to have a different risk-reward matrix than yourself. Everyone is an individual.

3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
Workers make bad choices and take risky jobs all the time. Who would you like to be in charge of your risk-reward analysis?
What's your general theory on the proper function of government?
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
It's way more common than you would like to accept. Unions subsidize these broken people.
RICH =/= SMART
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 23,113
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
I'm nostalgic for a time in the future when we all collectively and individually forget the word "CONSUMER" and instead replace it with the proper term "WORKER".
That equivalency is already here since most workers have outsourced their personal responsibility to save for their future.  Then they wonder why they are not in control of anything.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
I'd prefer not to be fired on a fucking whim.
Then either invest in job security by producing more than you are worth or take all the risks of employment upon yourself.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
most workers have outsourced their personal responsibility to save for their future.
Please be slightly more specific.
Bringerofrain
Bringerofrain's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 516
3
4
7
Bringerofrain's avatar
Bringerofrain
3
4
7
-->
@3RU7AL
I know that when I work at non union places I make more. It leads me to believe that unions probably get more I the way of good money and benefits than help with it. Trade unions seem to work well, but outside of grade unions they seem like they just leech off of employees
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@3RU7AL
STRONG labor unions always lobby in FAVOR of protectionism.

All major labor unions backed Joe Biden, the guy who wasn't the protectionist. The guy that helped China get permanent normalized trade relations, get them into the WTO, and supported NAFTA.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Bringerofrain
Ok, I agree, not all Unions are created equal.

However, if the Unions were unshackled then they would be able to raise wages.

The main objection to Unions is that they pay workers too much and THEREFORE cost the management their extra fat juicy PROFITS.

If you've got a Union that can't keep wages in line with the market for something like an entry level retail job, then that Union has been all but crushed by Management.

Places like Walmart are notorious for doing a great job of keeping prices low and paying employees a decent wage UNTIL they run all their competition out of town, at which point ALL BETS ARE OFF.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@bmdrocks21
All major labor unions backed Joe Biden,
BECAUSE THERE IS NO BETTER OPTION ON THE TABLE AT THE MOMENT.

THE REPUBLICANS HAVE NEVER BEEN PRO-LABOR.
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@3RU7AL
The Republicans haven't been historically pro-labor, but Trump was fairly pro-labor.  So why not support him instead of the guy who has historically voted to screw over labor and outsource jobs to China?

They don't have to be 100% for one party. Simply picking and choosing which politicians to support based on their record is what they should do.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 23,113
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
The main objection to Unions is that they pay workers too much and THEREFORE cost the management their extra fat juicy PROFITS.
No, it isn't lol. If you listen to workers actually fucked over by Unions then you know that the one size fits all solution of a Union is bullshit and unfair in a world of diverse individuals.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@bmdrocks21
Quick quiz,

Andy Puzder
Alex Acosta
Patrick Pizzella
Eugene Scalia

Which one of these TRUMP nominees for Secretary of Labor has a record of actually promoting PRO LABOR policy?

Answer key here, [LINK]
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 23,113
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
ALL BETS ARE OFF.
Lol only in a crony world where people are prevented from competing,
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
The main objection to Unions is that they pay workers too much and THEREFORE cost the management their extra fat juicy PROFITS.
No, it isn't lol. If you listen to workers actually fucked over by Unions then you know that the one size fits all solution of a Union is bullshit and unfair in a world of diverse individuals.
The main objection to Unions (FROM CORPORATE LOBBYISTS) is that they pay workers too much and THEREFORE cost the executives their extra fat juicy PROFITS.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 23,113
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Which one of these TRUMP nominees for Secretary of Labor has a record of actually promoting PRO LABOR policy?
So a pro-labor secretary would be one that hasn't sold a single thing in his life or created a job for anyone? Sounds logical.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
ALL BETS ARE OFF.
Lol only in a crony world where people are prevented from competing,
What's your proposed solution to CRONYISM?
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
Which one of these TRUMP nominees for Secretary of Labor has a record of actually promoting PRO LABOR policy?
So a pro-labor secretary would be one that hasn't sold a single thing in his life or created a job for anyone? Sounds logical.
Please at least attempt to answer the question before brandishing your next vague RED-HERRING.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 23,113
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
The main objection to Unions (FROM CORPORATE LOBBYISTS) is that they pay workers too much and THEREFORE cost the executives their extra fat juicy PROFITS.
Again false.

The main objection is that corporations are forced to pay exactly half of their workers too much at the expense of the other half of the workers that they would like to reward and keep from leaving. Unions promote a race to the bottom for work talent. The competition that isn't hamstrung from unions can snipe off all the best workers with better wages. Collective bargaining always ensures one worker is getting a good deal at the expense of another worker. It's bullshit communism.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 23,113
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
What's your proposed solution to CRONYISM?
Reduce organized crime by reducing the government's ability to interfere with economics as the founding fathers intended.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
What's your proposed solution to CRONYISM?
Reduce organized crime by reducing the government's ability to interfere with economics as the founding fathers intended.
Doesn't organized crime thrive in unregulated markets?

Isn't that the very definition of A BLACK MARKET?
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 23,113
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Doesn't organized crime thrive in unregulated markets?
It does thrive when there is nothing to regulate the government once the Constitutional regulations are shredded.

Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 23,113
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Please at least attempt to answer the question before brandishing your next vague RED-HERRING.
Ok well then explain why whenever and where ever competition is allowed to exist that the Unionized industries consistently go bankrupt without government subsidies. It's precisely because the Union has both no incentive mechanism for attracting workers that produce more than the communist collectively bargained wage and also no mechanism for penalizing workers that do not produce at the level of the collective wage.

Adam Smith said an economy without incentives is an economy of fiat.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,681
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
Doesn't organized crime thrive in unregulated markets?
It does thrive when there is nothing to regulate the government once the Constitutional regulations are shredded.
What "Constitutional regulations" are you in favor of?