-->
@3RU7AL
NOBODY DOES THIS BETTER THAN WORKERS UNIONS.
No, they catalyze outsourcing of those jobs. Protectionism makes it much more costly to outsource, so companies keep or create the high-paying jobs here
What are conservatives... for?
Posts
Total:
207
-->
@Bringerofrain
I guess in theory you could claim they aren't evil despite destroying competition like drug cartels would do by getting the government to be their slaves as opposed to slaves of the people like intended.
We might be approaching a patch of common-ground.
-->
@3RU7AL
So, are you suggesting that only crimes that produce an ACTUAL REAL-LIFE VICTIM should be enforced?
No more "driving while intoxicated" infractions?
Correct
Although I certainly understand enforcing preventative laws where it is hard to track down the perpetrator. Such as banning shooting guns in the air on July 4th, just because a bullet that travels several blocks and lands on a girls head, would make it near impossible to actually track down who fired the bullet.
I find most laws that are intended to prevent harm are unethical, and on par with the actions taken by government I'm minority report.
My goal is not to approach common ground but to teach and learn from you .
-->
@bmdrocks21
NOBODY DOES THIS BETTER THAN WORKERS UNIONS.No, they catalyze outsourcing of those jobs. Protectionism makes it much more costly to outsource, so companies keep or create the high-paying jobs here
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
WORKERS UNIONS WOULD HAVE STAMPED OUT "OUTSOURCING" YEARS AGO IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT (AT THE BIDDING OF THEIR OWNERS) HADN'T PINNED BOTH THEIR ARMS BEHIND THEIR BACK.
-->
@Bringerofrain
My goal is not to approach common ground but to teach and learn from you .
We can't really begin building a bridge until we have a solid place to set the cornerstone.
-->
@Bringerofrain
No more "driving while intoxicated" infractions?CorrectAlthough I certainly understand enforcing preventative laws where it is hard to track down the perpetrator. Such as banning shooting guns in the air on July 4th, just because a bullet that travels several blocks and lands on a girls head, would make it near impossible to actually track down who fired the bullet.
Fantastic example with the shooting guns in the air.
Perhaps in the future we'll develop forensics capable of determining the trajectory of the bullet, and then the same "credible threat of enforcement" would make a "no shooting into the air" ordinance fully redundant.
I find most laws that are intended to prevent harm are unethical, and on par with the actions taken by government I'm minority report.
MINORITY REPORT.
-->
@3RU7AL
Unions can help against outsourcing but protectionist policies, which we had before the 50s, had helped up build a massive manufacturing base.
Protectionism gives less incentive and less leverage to outsource. But outsourcing is primarily for cheaper labor and unions want high wages, hence the reason outsourcing is so common
-->
@Bringerofrain
Perhaps in the future we'll develop forensics capable of determining the trajectory of the bullet, and then the same "credible threat of enforcement" would make a "no shooting into the air" ordinance fully redundant (ALTHOUGH IT MIGHT STILL BE A NOISE VIOLATION).
-->
@bmdrocks21
But outsourcing is primarily for cheaper labor and unions want high wages,
Do you personally believe we can have BOTH protectionism AND labor unions?
-->
@Bringerofrain
What point are you trying to make?
Please be slightly more specific.
-->
@Bringerofrain
"Sorry amazon Don't cancel my prime membership"
FUCK AMAZON.
-->
@Bringerofrain
I seriously want to know because monopolies are bad and I want to pick an ideology that would eliminate the Amazon's of the world
Consider becoming a PRO-LABOR-UNION HIPSTER.
-->
@bmdrocks21
I'm not entirely sure that social conservatism isn't viable politically,
Please explain.
but I know that the fiscal libertarianism definitely isn't viable.
You could have a properly functioning free market if you unshackled LABOR UNIONS.
Hispanics, the largest minority voting block, are quite religious and socially conservative overall. If the GOP would become a populist conservative workers party, I think they would keep all of the White vote they need while also gaining large portions of the Hispanic vote.
YOU CAN'T BE PRO-RELIGIOUS AND PRO INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM (unless you completely divorce religion from policy).
THE GOP HAS NEVER BEEN PRO-LABOR.
We operate more or less on a pendulum. The widespread degeneracy we are seeing is very likely to have a strong reaction as people can no longer stomach what our culture has become.
Please explain exactly what you mean by "widespread degeneracy".
Are you in favor of making divorce illegal?
Are you in favor of making alcohol illegal?
Are you in favor of making tattoo parlors illegal?
While Hollywood and the media do everything they can to make conservatism seem "uncool",
(IFF) you imagine that "hollywood" has any agenda OTHER than "make as much $$$ as possible" (THEN) you're shockingly naive.
you have to realize that the GOP has never been the young person's party. It is the party of families, evident as most married people with kids vote for them.
But not because they actually agree with the actual GOP platform or individual politicians (who have become unidimensional cartoons).
The poor families (under 1 million $$$ annual income) are mostly SINGLE ISSUE voters who choose their PARTY based on goofy moral distortions like "anti-abortion".
But I certainly agree that the GOP has cast aside most of its socially conservative principles in what Patrick Buchanan more or less describes as a neocon insurgency. Neocons are free traders, social liberals, and war hawks that must be cast out of the party before it can once again become competitive nationally.
I agree.
FRACTIONALIZE THE GOP.
-->
@3RU7AL
IFF) you imagine that "hollywood" has any agenda OTHER than "make as much $$$ as possible" (THEN) you're shockingly naive.
That is perhaps one of the most accurate and meta takes of Hollywood I've seen for a while.
Sure, there might be movie producers who actually want to be progressive, but the movie industry itself is really only letting that trend go through because it sells well in developed countries. (cough, except for China)
-->
@Theweakeredge
IFF) you imagine that "hollywood" has any agenda OTHER than "make as much $$$ as possible" (THEN) you're shockingly naive.That is perhaps one of the most accurate and meta takes of Hollywood I've seen for a while.Sure, there might be movie producers who actually want to be progressive, but the movie industry itself is really only letting that trend go through because it sells well in developed countries. (cough, except for China)
Sure they might make a "progressive" movie now and then, but they're not really the big $$$ MONEY MAKERS.
For example, [LINK]
-->
@Theweakeredge
Yeah, it's why I prefer calling it hollowood.
-->
@3RU7AL
Not a fan of unions just think they have a really guy to exist. I worked in a grocery store and they paid me minimum wage because of the ufcw. When I quit and went to Walmart automatically got a raise and more benefits. I ions just seem to be there to collect a portion of your paycheck
-->
@Bringerofrain
I worked in a grocery store and they paid me minimum wage because of the ufcw.
Did you join the union?
-->
@3RU7AL
Yes. They took $10 a week when I got zero benefits and made exactly minimum wage. After I went to a non union job I got an automatic raise.
I worked at Safeway
-->
@Bringerofrain
Yes. They took $10 a week when I got zero benefits and made exactly minimum wage. After I went to a non union job I got an automatic raise.
The costs of working for a union are far more than your weekly union dues. Unions force everyone with skills to subsidize with their more productive labor the workers with less invested skills or ambition for productivity. Everyone gets paid collectively with a wage in the middle of those skills. It's a great gig if you happen to know you are worth less than you are paid.
Union bosses make their members feel like they were able to somehow "screw the corporation" but in reality, everyone has a bottom line whether unions exist or not.
-->
@3RU7AL
I think that protectionism reduces the need for labor unions. We had both from early to mid 1900s.
I’m fine with weaker unions if we have tariffs and quotas on imports, personally
-->
@Bringerofrain
Do you know what the "employee benefits package" looked like before LABOR UNIONS? - [LINK]
-->
@3RU7AL
"employee benefits package"
If you had a choice between actual money or benefits you may or may not need....what would you choose?
The fact employers can sell these benefits as an alternative compensation for your labor is proof that unions are bad at bargaining.
-->
@bmdrocks21
I think that protectionism reduces the need for labor unions. We had both from early to mid 1900s.I’m fine with weaker unions if we have tariffs and quotas on imports, personally
STRONG labor unions always lobby in FAVOR of protectionism.
-->
@Greyparrot
"employee benefits package"If you had a choice between actual money or benefits you may or may not need....what would you choose?The fact employers can sell these benefits as an alternative compensation for your labor is proof that unions are bad at bargaining.
EVERY CORPORATION ON PLANET EARTH IS MORE THAN HAPPY TO PAY A SOMEWHAT HIGHER BASE SALARY IF IT GIVES THEM THE FLEXIBILITY TO FIRE ANYONE AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON (OR NO-REASON AT ALL).
Most people are far more focused on short term $$$ and forget about their personal disaster recovery plan until it's way too late.
-->
@3RU7AL
VERY CORPORATION ON PLANET EARTH IS MORE THAN HAPPY TO PAY A SOMEWHAT HIGHER BASE SALARY IF IT GIVES THEM THE FLEXIBILITY TO FIRE ANYONE AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON (OR NO-REASON AT ALL).
The number one reason people get fired is from problems stemming from a deeply held belief that they are way more productive than they actually are. These are the people that end up being subsidized by productive workers in a union instead of being justifiably fired.
Most people are far more focused on short term $$$ and forget about their personal disaster recovery plan until it's way too late.
If it's your employer's responsibility to look after your long-term welfare, why even care about things like job security or programs to advance in your career then since it's not your responsibility? Another reason why benefits are a scam against the worker.
-->
@Greyparrot
The number one reason people get fired is from problems stemming from a deeply held belief that they are way more productive than they actually are. These are the people that end up being subsidized by productive workers in a union instead of being justifiably fired.
Ok, are you suggesting that all (or most of) the NON-UNION workers who were wholesale replaced with FOREIGN OUTSOURCED WORKERS were all LAZY ASSHOLES?