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@Mopac
If no thing that has a beginning can be God and nothing observable is eternal wouldn't you then agree that we have no observational experience with anything that meets the basic requirements of your definition of God?
So your inability to observe eternity does not negate its existence. I'm pretty sure they have a name for that fallacy too.
so it is not inspired and it is not objective
Who says?Why God does not fit into your category is because God transcends His creation and He is self-existent.
For his benefit, the special pleading is that god gets special treatment as being an exception to the general rule that everything has a beginning/cause etc.Mopac asked:How does the cosmological argument commit a special pleading falllacy?
So, accept an irrational, illogical and unreasonable idea, then naval gaze it. Gotcha.But you are right that God isn't the necessary conclusion of the KCA. However, God is without cause and the cause of everything, and this is evident by accepting that God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, and meditating on the implications of what that means.
Think for a moment and realize this is the self evident truth, and it's all on you to make sense of it at this point.
That god did not begin to exist is not a conclusion of the argument as Keith said. It is an assumption madevatbthe outset of the argument so that the argument goes through. Unless you can demonstrate that anything that exists did not begin to exist it is a case of special pleading.everything that began to exist has a cause.
C.S. Lewis did provide a list, loosely based on The Ten Commandments that he identified as operational in almost all societies that appear universal (applying to every culture) in its nature. I have an answer why. We are made in the image and likeness of GodThat's your opinion - not to be confused with an objective basis for morality.It was C.S. Lewis' opinion, but I agree with it.
In most any culture or sub-culture there is a sense of fairness. The question is why should it be there based on evolution?
Not really. If someone doesn't think human life is special, then they likely have been or will be removed from the human population through self inflicted or societal exile/death.Take a look at all the dictators and oligarchies around the world that do just fine by exploiting and devaluing human life.
Evolution doesn't build morality, but through it our nature has been shaped. Actions which contribute to well being of the individual and/or group make it more likely for an individual within a social species to reproduce. Continue this for millennium and it's not hard to see how a social species can revere beneficial acts and a proto-morality begins to form. We can observe these proto-moralities in other primates, dolphins, canines, felines, etc., and I bet you'll not argue these were made in the 'image of godWell-being in whose mind? Kim Jong-un's?
Ok. So what? Morality is not law. It is a description, not a prescription.Without justice, what is good about it?
It is not necessary to know what the 'hottest' bath water you can tolerate is before you can know too much heat to your bath is bad for you. In other words, no best or worst is needed to understand good and bad.Again, hot and cold are not moral issues. They deal with quantitative values, not qualitative. There is a fixed measure.
Back as far as Plato and Aristotle, both recognized the objective best was how the good was measured. The measure of morality if it is relative is not fixed. How you get to objective morality from a subjective mindset with no outside directive is beyond me.
Not only did I not dispute this, I agreed with Keith.That god did not begin to exist is not a conclusion of the argument as Keith said. It is an assumption madevatbthe outset of the argument so that the argument goes through.
Of course that is the obstacle! I grew up in a non-religious (NOT anti-religious) atmosphere and was never exposed to the idea that the bible is authoratative. All my school mates were the same as me and I only met real religious types when I went to uni. I didn't get why they belived in it then and I don't know why people believe in it now!Mopac wrote:the scriptures I accept as being valid witness(which you don't, and I'm not trying to argue that) make it clear to me why this is the case.
God transcends His creationCan you demonstrate this? If you cannot it invalidates the rest of your argument although even if you can prove that something exists transcendent of time and space (whatever that means) and that this thing whatever it Is caused something that lead to the causal chain that set off the big bang the rest of your argument still makes a lot of assumptions and is on shaky ground.
that this thing whatever it Is caused something that lead to the causal chain that set off the big bang the rest of your argument still makes a lot of assumptions and is on shaky ground.
With blind indifference chance happenstance, there is no reason or logic.There is always the possibilty that there is no reason or logic.
I'm not pleading for infinite regression.I agree you are not pleading infinite regression. You have chosen to go with a special pleading fallacy instead. The cosmological argument must contain one or the other. Also in order to use it as an argument for a specific god concept comits a black and white fallacy.