Recreating Objectives

Author: EtrnlVw ,

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  • EtrnlVw
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    EtrnlVw
    Okay so we all know what everyone dislikes about religion and concepts about God, the Bible, moral ideologies, laws, rules and so forth. For this topic I would like to reach beyond all of that baloney. This is for everyone to participate not just religious people. For this topic I want to erase mans preconceived ideas and religions contributions about God and I want everyone to feel completely free to express themselves. I would like to recreate what we know about God, spirituality and creation as if we all have our own say in what happens here. Lets presume God does exist but not in the average way we all depict God, in others words we want to strip away religious influence and anything attached to that, that would control our output here.

    Lets say we all know we originate with God, and we are all free to engage creation as we so wish, free to depict God as we see is fair. Give me some idea of what would totally satisfy you as a free agent within creation to express yourself and what you feel about God as your own God...develop whatever you want, to create society in any way you wish as you see would fit you best, tell me what you think about God or what you think God would be like. Tell me what would make you happy, what would be cool, what would you imagine God like, how you would see everything play out. Tell me what you would do, what you would create if you had complete freedom to do anything you would want. Or how you think God would rule creation, or if you believe God wouldn't care to. Basically just say whatever you want, the first thing you innately feel about God's existence as if you knew God yourself, just say whatever it is that pops into your thoughts.

    If you're really feeling creative I want you to imagine that once you leave planet earth, you are allowed to create your own world, and other souls are allowed to choose to live there....what would you do, what would it be like, what kind of people would you allow there? what objectives would you establish, would there be any purpose, would there be any regulations, would there be any specific things that set it apart from our normal experience? I want to see some real creativity here, the sky is the limit but I want each person to feel completely and creatively free to express themselves in any way they want understanding that they are eternal, and that some form of God exists. If you wish to be a smart azz okay fine, nothing knew there but please think about it. 

    I'm going to offer some guidelines here as a way to establish some dynamics, take em or leave em.

    -The earth is only one planet out of trillions of places that exist that contain life. You could keep it the way it is, or you could completely change it
    -You are an eternal agency
    -You as a soul, are not restricted to only earth in your experiences
    -The universe is only one out of a series of multiverses
    -There are several planes of existence, each plane is set up like a universe where there are virtually countless galaxies and planets
    -There only one law that exists, its a moral law of cause and effect meaning that you can do whatever you want, but when you cause harm to any other soul you must reap the effect of that choice. If you don't like that law, tell me what law you would set into effect if you only had one choice

  • FLRW
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    Come on, it's 2021. If you still believe in fairy tails then there is no hope for you.
  • Stephen
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    Stephen
    You have made so many contradictions in your op, and in the first two paragraphs in particular.  It is difficult to know where to start.

    Just one example;  you say:

    "..............we all know what everyone dislikes about religion and concepts about God, the Bible, moral ideologies, laws, rules and so forth. For this topic I would like to reach beyond all of that baloney. "


     and then we a right back to god and the concepts of  god:


    "Lets say we all know we originate with God, and we are all free to engage creation as we so wish, free to depict God as we see is fair."

    What happened to forgetting all that baloney?  And which parts  " about religion and concepts about God"   do you consider to be baloney? Or is that part simply directed towards the   " the easily tricked idiots" you mentioned earlier?#39



    You will be pleased to know that I'll give it a miss for now.



  • janesix
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    Honestly I don't see the point of this exercise. Why make things up, how we would prefer it? It's hard enough trying to figure out what's going on in the first place.
  • Stephen
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    --> @janesix
    Honestly I don't see the point of this exercise. Why make things up, how we would prefer it? It's hard enough trying to figure out what's going on in the first place.

    A+1


  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @janesix
    Honestly I don't see the point of this exercise. Why make things up, how we would prefer it? It's hard enough trying to figure out what's going on in the first place.

    The point of the this exercise is to break molds, either the limitations we put on ourselves or the preconceived ideas thrusted upon us by religion. Even more our lack of confidence as individual expressions coming straight out of the Being of God. Let me put it this way, there's no one here that could recreate or imagine anything that is not possible so there is no fear in using one's creativity and honestly there's no reason why there should be be any barriers for each individual expression of God presenting God on their own terms. I mean they are very much a part of God, religions as well are based upon some mans expressions anyways there's no harm in presenting the Creator in the light of complete freedom as God is the Father of anyone here.
    Another great point to bring up is that as each soul here leaves the physical body on this planet they will learn how restricted of a place this is in terms of individual creativity, significance and lack of control from many factors. Showing them the freedom in creativity in God's created worlds is no poor exercise because there are no limits in more advanced places beyond this one.
    I know you feel it's a hard thing to figure things out but honestly that's because of the fear and lack of confidence people have to innately accept they have no limitations in God and they have all knowledge at their fingertips as beings that originate from that Reality. Again, I'm simply trying to budge the barriers by emphasizing complete freedom of thought.


  • secularmerlin
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    Cause and effect leave no room for freewill I would change the unjust part of the law which punishes individuals for actions they have no control over. The goal of any law should not be to level punishment at individuals or groups but to protect those living under said law.

  • secularmerlin
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    --> @janesix
    Honestly I don't see the point of this exercise. Why make things up, how we would prefer it? It's hard enough trying to figure out what's going on in the first place.
    Well stated. Far better than my own reply.
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @secularmerlin
    With all the nagging and whining about religious oppression and unfairness you would think a topic like this would be welcome. Rather now you guys just nag and whine about freedom of expression.

    Well stated. Far better than my own reply.

    And here was my reply to that...

    "The point of the this exercise is to break molds, either the limitations we put on ourselves or the preconceived ideas thrusted upon us by religion. Even more our lack of confidence as individual expressions coming straight out of the Being of God. Let me put it this way, there's no one here that could recreate or imagine anything that is not possible so there is no fear in using one's creativity and honestly there's no reason why there should be be any barriers for each individual expression of God presenting God on their own terms. I mean they are very much a part of God, religions as well are based upon some mans expressions anyways there's no harm in presenting the Creator in the light of complete freedom as God is the Father of anyone here.
    Another great point to bring up is that as each soul here leaves the physical body on this planet they will learn how restricted of a place this is in terms of individual creativity, significance and lack of control from many factors. Showing them the freedom in creativity in God's created worlds is no poor exercise because there are no limits in more advanced places beyond this one.
    I know you feel it's a hard thing to figure things out but honestly that's because of the fear and lack of confidence people have to innately accept they have no limitations in God and they have all knowledge at their fingertips as beings that originate from that Reality. Again, I'm simply trying to budge the barriers by emphasizing complete freedom of thought."

    Very interesting right?

  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @secularmerlin
    Cause and effect leave no room for freewill I would change the unjust part of the law which punishes individuals for actions they have no control over.

    Wow, you totally missed the point entirely, not surprising. Quite the opposite, people are corrected for actions that they have complete control over. Another way to say it is that we reap what we sow...what you do to me you must also experience. This is not a violation of free will, it is the results of having free will.

    The goal of any law should not be to level punishment at individuals or groups but to protect those living under said law.

    That is what the moral law is Sec.
    "There only one law that exists, its a moral law of cause and effect meaning that you can do whatever you want, but when you cause harm to any other soul you must reap the effect of that choice."
    That law IS the protection of the people, while also allowing for complete freedom of individual expression as long as it does not violate someone else's. How you people manage to get everything azz backwards is beyond me. 

  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @FLRW
    Hope in what sense?  I would say most of the theists here live life the same as the atheists other than the incorporation of some rituals, prayers, spiritual readings  and attending worship. I also don't fish but I don't begrudge people spending money and time on fishing. Especially when they don't keep the fish just put them back. What are you hoping we do so different you have to have come here and talk about it. 
  • Theweakeredge
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    IF I were to accept some god to exist, I suppose there would be certain characteristics I would wish they exhibit

    • ordinary powerlessness over matter and such
    • some kind of other beings for checking their authority with the same characteristics
    • logical
    • Prioritizing the well-being of creatures based on sentience
    • allows change within their doctrine
    • protects the creatures it rules over 
    • teaching the creatures how to advance & prosper
    • incorruptible
    • unaging
    • willing to pass on power based on traits similar to their own

  • Theweakeredge
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    Btw - here is the definition of god I am working off of: "spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshiped for doing so, or something that represents this spirit or being:"
  • Theweakeredge
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    To consisely answer the question:
    1. They must act in the best interest of sentient creatures
    2. They must consider and accept the view of similarly rules creatures
    3. They must be beings of ordinary-human manipulation of matter/space

  • janesix
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    --> @secularmerlin
    And what if this isn't a "cause and effect" universe?
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @janesix
    The Law of Cause and Effect says it is. 
  • FLRW
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    I am talking about the hope of being an intelligent person. Let's see what an intelligent person said about God.

     “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.” - Albert Einstein, a year before he died
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @FLRW
    Einstein hating theists doesn't mean much to me. His opinion on that is no different than anyone else.  But thanks for clarifying. 
  • janesix
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    So they say. I don't believe it. 
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @janesix
    It's one of those laws most of us see in action.
  • janesix
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    I've had too many synchronous events, some that have unfolded over decades, to believe that cause and effect is a real thing.
  • fauxlaw
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    I see a number of references here to "The Law of Cause and Effect" in this string, as if this is some universal law, of which there are six, seven, twelve, and probably other numbers of "universal laws" according to [??]. Moreover, the originator of "The Law of Cause and Effect" is given as Aristotle, Ralph Waldo Emerson, and Karma, among others [I don't think Karma is a person, although it happens to be my daughter's middle name], so its origin is, in effect, of questionable "cause and effect." Further, I find that, depending on the source [Google, for one, and not to forget Wiki] the "law" is stated in as many different words as there are sources. Most do manage to contain "cause" and "effect" in an otherwise babble of definitions. I'm expecting something distinct [as in a specific "cause" - i.e, we need to have one - having a specific "effect" - i.e., a consistently stated law in dependably consistent words. Well, not even the Bible will translate thus to us, so maybe I'm looking to deep in what is really just a puddle, and of about the same worth.

    Further, most seem to think that, according to this indistinct "law," some factor is the total cause of everything, and, thus, the "effect" is that our lives are a total, pre-determined course from which we cannot divert, try as we might, and, by such logic, since our free will is not an available option, according to some who have already posted on this string, there is no God.

    That is dizzying logic, but, we seem to be a breed saddled with syllogism. I personally disagree. Most syllogisms aren't. Logical, that is, but, since syllogism seems married to logic, perhaps celibacy is the preferred course. But, two heads are better than one [but, curiously, not three or four, or more], so, there's that.

    Thus, EtrnlVw's challenge, which most have ignored in favor of mounting the very "baloney" advised to be risen above., such as all the above.

    Of all posts, Edge has mounted the most honest effort, able to dismiss his own objection to deity, which he is welcome to embrace, and I won't discourage it though I happen to disagree,  and accept EtrnlVw's launchpad, to offer a real substantial series of suggestions, just as EtrnlVw asked. Bravo, Edge.

    I'll post a response by and by. Just had to get this "cause and effect" baloney out of the way. I actually accept the notion, but I disagree with how most approach it, Aristotle, Emerson, and Karma notwithstanding. Some just cannot conceive that God might not always act omnipotently, omnipresently, or omnisciently as many suppose, such as by creating imperfection, including ourselves. Do you use all the power you possess, all the time? No. Neither does God.
  • fauxlaw
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    I will, some may conclude, throw a wrench in the works. EtrnlVw offered six principles [I purposely avoid “laws” as a description] as a baseline from which to build a SimUniverse of my personal ideal. However, my ‘wrench’ is this: since my conception of God is that the “heaven and earth” he created, although imperfect, was designed and constructed according to Plan, the plan includes growth to perfection. The Plan is that it all – all things he created – are on a course leading to perfection, as God is presently. Therefore, it is the course that is the construct of EtrnlVw’s “principles,” take, and not whatever I might create were I in God’s place as creator.
     
    For example, I would key on the 2ndprinciple, “You are an eternal agency,” based on the 1st, that the creation could be as it is, or changed by my agency. In my ideal universe, we would embrace that agency, rather than refute it, because in the “heaven and earth” that is, God advised Adam that “of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat.” That was the gift of agency. “Every tree” meant just that; all of them. Adam was not forbidden to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, just that there would be dire circumstance for doing so. Adam was left with the choice. In my ideal “heaven and earth,” that choice is universal, i.e., partake of everything, or not, by personal choice, knowing that some choices are better than others, some should be avoided, and some embraced as best choices. For the cause of Adam’s choice, bringing about mortality and death, there must needs be a way of redemption from the hell of permanent death. A savior, a perfect and personal redeemer whose sacrifice would atone for Adam’s choice, so that none following would bear that personal burden, but only the burdens of their own missteps. And that redemption, that atonement, would answer for personal missteps, as well, conditional on their acceptance and gratitude for it. In no wise do the people of my ideal heaven and earth feel deprived of choice, ever. In other words, my heaven and earth are not realms of omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient predestination. 
     
    My ideal h&e allows its inhabitants to go to the stars, accepting consequences with responsibility as with any choice. MY h&e is just one of many; other created by other beings of similar responsibility and power to be in any realm, plane, or time, which is, in fact, nonexistent. This is eternity. There is no ultimate cause and effect. Each person is responsible and enabled with personal choices of cause and effect, and all are in harmony so long as no one’s choice infringes upon another’s. In an eternity, there is room for all to have their cake and eat it, too, without causing hunger to anyone else. What I've described is exactly the condition of this h&e we experience now.
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    it is the results of having free will.
    Freewill is logically incoherent. 
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @janesix
    what if this isn't a "cause and effect" universe?
    How would we confirm or deny this proposition? If it is unfalsifiable then it can just be dismissed.