Derek Chauvin Trial

#31

Lemming

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Lemming

04.10.2021 06:29PM

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@HistoryBuff

how so? Chauvin's supervisor and the chief of police have both testified he breached procedure and had no business kneeling on him like that. What words am I putting in other people's minds and mouths?

Your own, since I assume that's not 'exactly what his words were in the trial.

His 'quotes I mean.

To you,

Witnesses,

Never lie,

Never have an agenda,

Never can be wrong.

Perhaps this says a lot about you.

"What a person says on a subject, often says more about the person, than the subject." - Leaning

And that 'includes 'me.

Minneapolis police chief expected to testify against Derek Chauvin : news (reddit.com)
dollarsandcents101 5 days ago
The testimony today sounds like it will largely come from the Police Chief - Medaria Arradondo.
The Chief gave an interview with BCA on June 11 describing his understanding of what happened. I expect the prosecution and defense to both try to score points on this document.
Exhibit1408282020.pdf (mncourts.gov)
In support of the defense on Page 16 - the Chief didn't know the details of the policy that covered neck restraints:
BH: You know you've been very clear that you know the knee on the neck is not trained technique. But in your use of force policy you do have section on neck restraints and chokeholds.
MA: Um-hm.
BH: That, that are authorized with caveat if you receive training on them.
MA: Oh-okay. Does it, does it mention deadly force or anything?
BH: It so it uh from memory don't have it with me.
MA: Okay.
This interview goes on but I won't list it all in the comment. It's hard to believe that the Chief's judgements were credible if he didn't understand basic elements of the use of force policy when he fired Officer Chauvin.

Maybe I'm stupid to give credence to such Reddit posts,

It's only something I glanced at after all.

Likely I've already acquired some bias in favor of Chauvin early on, that makes changing my opinion slow.

But bias is common and difficult for 'most in my opinion.

Currently I'm still 'trying not to be convinced one way or the other.

Currently I'm 'trying to have an open mind, before I try to verbally bludgeon other people for having an opinion one way or the other.

#32

bmdrocks21

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bmdrocks21

04.10.2021 07:42PM

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@HistoryBuff

so your argument is that is was completely random chance? He happened to die at the moment a cop was crushing him? The crushing him had nothing to do with it? That is a very weak argument.

Do you always have to make the most obtuse and obviously wrong interpretation of anything that anyone says? Conversations would be a lot more efficient if you stopped willfully misinterpreting everything I said.

It was not a random chance. He had coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. He had fentanyl (synthetic opioids are the largest cause of overdoses) and meth in his system, as well as a history of cocaine abuse. He also had COVID-19. He said he was having trouble breathing before the kneeling even began. He struggled with officers, refusing to get in the police vehicle, a stressful and strenuous event. So to say that he would very likely have died anyway because of his poor health, drugs, and stress is not at all a stretch.

#33

Lemming

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Lemming

04.10.2021 07:52PM

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@HistoryBuff

Though the ,

What words am I putting in other people's minds and mouths?

I was initially referring to the way you took mine and bmdrocks21's comments about triangle.128k's comment.

Our words being I 'think, criticism of triangle.128k's comment.

You painted as being words being about Chauvin's actions, which was not true.

Because you seem emotionally invested in the subject of the trial, in finding Chauvin guilty.

And thus are quick to view and react negatively, to possible comments of the contrary.

#34

Double_R

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Double_R

04.10.2021 09:48PM

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@bmdrocks21

So to say that he would very likely have died anyway because of his poor health, drugs, and stress is not at all a stretch.

But that’s not the question the jury is tasked with answering. It doesn’t matter if he would have died anyway in some hypothetical alternative reality. The question is; was Derrick Chauvin’s actions the primary cause for what did kill him? To that question, correct me if I’m wrong, but all of the expert’s who actually diagnosed him before and after his death agree they were.

#35

bmdrocks21

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bmdrocks21

04.10.2021 11:58PM

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@Double_R

But that’s not the question the jury is tasked with answering. It doesn’t matter if he would have died anyway in some hypothetical alternative reality. The question is; was Derrick Chauvin’s actions the primary cause for what did kill him? To that question, correct me if I’m wrong, but all of the expert’s who actually diagnosed him before and after his death agree they were.

Well I guess my point was that if he likely would have died anyway because of the drugs, then that would mean that Chauvin's actions weren't likely the primary reason he died.

The kneeling certainly did not help, but if he was struggling to breathe before Chauvin kneeled on him, I think that can cast a reasonable doubt.

Now, if I understand correctly, they are trying to say that Chauvin committed a felony. If someone dies because you commit a felony, you are responsible for their death. So, they might be able to get him on that if they can prove that kneeling was an assault.

#36

Vader