Derek Chauvin was found guilty

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Lemming
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I just explained how you are wrong. Did you read what I wrote? Do you have any thoughts on it?
I disagree with your assessment.

Every medical expert who examined Floyd before and after his death made clear that he was killed by having a knee to his neck. What more information do you need and why?

"During Mr. Nelson's cross-examination, Dr. Baker acknowledged that he saw no physical signs of asphyxiation; that Mr. Floyd had a level of fentanyl in his system that could have been called an overdose in other circumstances; and that his heart condition, combined with the exertion of struggling with the police, played"

Nice dodge. The question was, do you really believe that his past, just like the past of every other black person we’ve seen die at the hands of the police, would be scrutinized the same way of all these people were white? Do you really think there would be this national effort to paint them as thugs and criminals?
I think it's common for people's pasts to be brought up, regardless of their skin color.
Whether it's politics, the criminal justice system, a job interview.

You’re just wrong on both of those. Lack of attention to personal responsibility is not as you are conveniently interpreting it, a suggestion that he/they handled the situation perfectly. It’s about the fact that if we are going to discuss responsibility we need to start with the professionals. It’s absolutely absurd that a police officer, someone who is trained, paid, and entrusted makes a mistake that kills someone, and you want to instead focus on the actions of the civilian who meets none of that criteria and carries none of that responsibility. Until people like you stop raging about silly things like your imagined national worship of George Floyd, that will and should remain the focus.
Not much I've seen in the news arguing for making more known outpatient therapy for drug addicts.
Not much I've seen in the news discussing what communities can do to help and improve themselves, in stead I see a greater interest in 'reparations.

I've 'NEVER stated I think that police should not be held accountable, should not be looked into when an incident occurs.

And no one is claiming that black people are the only ones facing any kind of hardship. Where did you get that from?
BLM
By the name, by the spoken focus.
If you were to speak of reforming the police because you feel it's become more militarized, confrontational, I'd be more apt to support.
But the message 'I see, is the police are all racist towards blacks, society needs change to suit 'us.
BLM, BLM, BLM.


There's also those odd comments by people about Communism and dismantling the nuclear family, which I haven't looked into or care much about.
BLM, is an 'idea of a social movement, 'lacking 'clear structure, accountability.
Which is 'why I have no problem identifying rioters, looters, and statue topplers as part of BLM, if they 'say they are, and spray-paint businesses.

I accept Chauvin has been found guilty, is what it is.
I'm not 'against some police reform.
Is the most you'll get from me at the moment, I expect.
Lemming
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@Barney
@Vader
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@Theweakeredge
Perhaps BLM should push for public schools including courses on individuals rights as citizens, and how to interact with police.
Theweakeredge
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@Lemming
that'd be outdated, not to mention... ya know - shifting the responsibility. Regardless of if people give "shit" to the police, they shouldn't shoot people. Furthermore, I think that the police should be abolished, there should be a much more highly trained, regulated, accountable, separated departments. Like - people who patrol don't go to de-escalate crowds, or respond to mental health calls - or wield guns much.
Lemming
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@Theweakeredge
I'm not saying that police should shoot people if they give "shit" to the police as you say.

I think you'd get more support for other departments that aren't gun toting police, if you avoided saying 'abolish the police.

I 'think, I'd have been more impressed by the police officer in the Ma'Khia Bryant shooting, if he'd tackled Bryant instead of shooting her,
But I don't know if that would have been the 'best response, more brave certainly, better if no one had died.

I 'do get why the George Floyd situation, attracted so much attention, outrage, though I disagree with the verdict.
But it still bothers me that the media seems quick to demonize the police for many 'other situations.
I prefer news be impartial and calm in their reporting.
Theweakeredge
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@Lemming
They should be abolished, at least in the US - its a historically racist and corrupt department - that started as a slave patrol.
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@ILikePie5
The degree of resistance was a panicking high-out-his-mind claustrophobic guy who was feeling extremely stressed and trapped in the vehicle.

Instead of trying to calm him down, well... You know what happens next.

Polytheist-Witch
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@Theweakeredge
What ridiculous bs. However they started they are now the first level of law enforcement people call when they need help. There are police solving crimes, keep people from getting abused, doing charity work and keeping roads safe.  Your hatred for another group of people you don't understand and probably never interact with is astounding. 
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Police are not psychiatrist. They are law enforcement. 
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@Polytheist-Witch
Oh? So you don't know? They're required to respond to calls of distress in general - which are considered an emergency - things like dissociation and self-harm are considered in those criteria - yet these people are treated like criminals - lets not even mention the high rate (regardless of racism) of people killed by the police annually. Historically speaking, the police are racist and corrupted. 

You can call it "bs", but any good done by the police can be done by a new department that doesn't have it harms
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@Theweakeredge
I have worked with the police for 20 some years and know what they do and in general they are.  They do get called to do those things but they are not psychiatrist and those situations don't usually go well for people or the police. You want a mental health squad cities need to set them up. 
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@Polytheist-Witch
You see - the problem is that they are supposed to provide care for individuals with inadequate mental health - they aren't psychiatrists - and thats the problem.
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@Theweakeredge
Then you train a mental health force not get rid of all police. Good luck finding people to do it. Most psychologist and psychiatrist don't want to do that kind of work or they would train for both jobs and join the force. 
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@Polytheist-Witch
The people doing what the police do need to be able to handle and care for people with inadequate mental health - this is something that is absolutely necessary - and the police fundamentally don't care about mental health outcomes - even though they are the most important of all outcomes - we care about physical outcomes because it determines your mental one - people seem to forget this. 

75 days later

drlebronski
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@Lemming
People who say it was justified because floyd was criminal dont get the point. First of all even if he did all those things doesn't mean he deserved to be suffocated slowly for 9 minutes. second of all Derek Chauvin didn't know who Floyd, Didn't know he committed any crime.  third of all  The point is that he was murdered for no reason other than he MIGHT have had a counterfeit 20 dollar bill. People who try to justify it are inhumane.
Lemming
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@Theweakeredge
@drlebronski
Eh, I 'think I'm mostly argued out of the George Floyd, Derek Chauvin, situation.
Said my piece in this thread and others.
. . .
Still, embers when poked, might flare a bit of heat.
Also I suppose I'll mention an article I found interesting, to Theweakeredge.

But first, for you drlebronski.
"People who say it was justified because floyd was criminal dont get the point." - drlebronski
Are you referring to myself, if so, can you quote what I said, that I have more context, of what in particular you mean?

First of all even if he did all those things doesn't mean he deserved to be suffocated slowly for 9 minutes. - drlebronski.
"Jesus: 52 Put your sword back. People who live by the sword die by the sword" - Matthew 26:52, The Voice translation.

Deserved. . . . . . . . . The 'way people 'live, 'results. Not always, but often. Smokers get lung cancer, criminals get into altercations with the law.
I don't mean to say, Floyd was a criminal, he deserved to die, because I don't 'believe that.
I 'do believe, The 'way people 'live. . . 'results.

second of all Derek Chauvin didn't know who Floyd, Didn't know he committed any crime. - drlebronski.
I am not familiar with the fine details,
Were the police told he had paid by a counterfeit bill,
Did the cashier tell the police the 'name George Floyd (Enabling them to look him up in their data banks),
Did they enter his license plate in their data banks,
Did none of the police recognize his build or name as a career criminal and mention it to the others,
Did George Floyd present 'symptoms, of being under the influence of narcotics,
Was George Floyd a giant of a man.

third of all  The point is that he was murdered for no reason other than he MIGHT have had a counterfeit 20 dollar bill. - drlebronski.
I disagree that he was murdered. Accidents happen, es- Ah calm down Leaning.
Especially to people with medical conditions, who abuse drugs, and are in the midst of a freakout.

People who try to justify it are inhumane. - drlebronski.
. . .
. . .
I 'really don't care to argue this again, but the embers are stirred.

Why is it that every time something contradicts their views, they suddenly lose all of their self-awareness? - Theweakeredge
drlebronski
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@Lemming
i wasn't talking about you just thought id mention it. no they didn't get his name even if they did its not justified.
"I disagree that he was murdered. Accidents happen, es- Ah calm down Leaning.
Especially to people with medical conditions, who abuse drugs, and are in the midst of a freakout." 
How was that not murder? he put his knee on the man's neck for 9 minutes while floyd repeatedly said "i cant breath" and cried for his dead mother. 

Lemming
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@drlebronski
Not talking about me, alright, just curious.

I view murder as more 'intentional to kill.

I disagree that the drug question is a 'conspiracy theory, as those need be a bit more in the woods or off kilter, so to speak, in my eyes.
Handwritten notes taken when the Medical Examiner briefed prosecutors on his findings suggest it was very high – but not necessarily fatal.
“If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an O.D. [Over Dose],” the notes say.
“Deaths have been certified with levels of 3,” the notes indicate. “But I am not saying this killed him.”

Drug addicts, depending on drugs used, frequency, number of years have weaker hearts.

I don't 'need to say he had three times the drugs in his system, than an average person could handle.
It's 'enough that he has a history, it's 'more that he had a 'significant amount of drugs in his system at arrest.
The body is a funny thing, mix of tough and delicate.
And an individual with a 'history of drug use, 'under the influence, 'admist a panic attack,
It is not 'shocking, hiss death, 'nor are drugs uninvolved.
The knee didn't help.

He said he couldn't breathe 'before he was put on the ground.
It is common of individuals to weep and cry for their mothers, when apprehended by the police.
Theweakeredge
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@Lemming
Well, yeah, I'm aware  - more rhetorical than that, lol