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@Greyparrot
Racist transformers shall save us! (No, not the Bruce Jenner kind)
George Floyd Déjà vu
Posts
Total:
70
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@bmdrocks21
I'd think that the fentanyl overdose of a career criminal after resisting arrest would have also fallen back into obscurity without...
...him being murdered in broad daylight on video.
Fixed.
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@Double_R
I mean... you’re wrong, but okay.
Just to be clear, the difference between 2nd degree murder and 3rd degree isn't just intent but how directly your intentional actions resulted in the unintended death.
Only first degree murder required explicit evidence of prior intent to murder.
The difference between both 2nd and 3rd degree murder and manslaughter of any degree comes down to how truly intentional or unintentional the actions were.
If the actions are proven to be intentional and the linkage between the actions and the death are proven to be direct, it is 2nd degree murder.
If the actions are proven to be intentional and the linkage between the actions and death are proven tobe indirect, it is 3rd degree murder.
Regardless of the linkage to death, if the actions are proven to be accidental, it becomes manslaughter.
Within manslaughter, the degree comes down to how much you are to blame for the consequences of your unintentional actions.
So, actually you are in a sense correct here, Chauvin is technically not responsible for manslaughter, however since his defence claimed he didn't intentionally act to kill Floyd in that situation, he screwed himself over by justifying that charge too. On the other hand, his actions were provably intentional unless he claims a demon possessed him, so it didn't really help him at all.
There are multiple avenues for appeal, juror intimidation is the easiest one.
No such thing occurred.
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@bmdrocks21
I mean... you’re wrong, but okay.
It’s literally what happened, and it completely sailed over your head. People like you are too busy painting George Floyd as human trash who’s life is not worth being concerning about (and I’m sure the fact that he’s black has absolutely nothing to do with that) to understand the basic idea of what people are enraged about.
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@Double_R
and I’m sure the fact that he’s black has absolutely nothing to do with that
No, it doesn't. Whenever drug addict, criminal whites are killed by the police while resisting arrest, I never loot a Target or support them.
Nor do I see you defend criminal whites killed while resisting arrest, so I'm guessing Floyd's race is why you are defending him. Call that race blind(ed). :P
People like you are too busy painting George Floyd as human trash who’s life is not worth being concerning about
He really isn't worth being concerned about. He has been arrested many times in his life, one time for robbing a pregnant woman. He clearly never changed, and he probably would have killed someone while driving under the influence of fentanyl. But the fact that I don't care that he died probably makes me a lot more objective when looking at the evidence than someone who is "enraged" by the incident, no?
to understand the basic idea of what people are enraged about.
No, I understand exactly what people are enraged about. They are very ignorant people who think that cops waltz around and indiscriminately kill black people. Then they watch a video with no context and raze a city to the ground. Now, in a year or two, they will complain that no businesses want to invest there. Detroit all over again, and I could not care less.
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@bmdrocks21
Your second paragraph is extremely presumptive and disgusting.
Firstly, what happened to Floyd is absolutely tragic regardless of who he was as a person.
Secondly, he didn't drive or attempt to. The entire reason the cops were able to get there, let alone shopkeepers, is that Floyd was not doing anything. I don't doubt he'd have ended up driving non-sober but not at the peak of his high.
Thirdly, people like you are what's even wrong with what we're doing to Chauvin. We have a society and world where we throw people in cages to torment and abuse each other, expecting them to come out better human beings. Floyd needed help, both to become sober and perhaps for mental health issues.
@RM
It is tragic what happened to Floyd. Drug addiction is a big problem in our country, and it affects too many people.
He might not have driven at the "peak" of his high, but he probably still would have driven while high, as you mentioned. Driving is dangerous enough when everybody is sober and lucid.
The criminal justice system has roles to punish and rehabilitate criminals, sure. Neat goals, but the most practical purpose is to keep dangerous people out of our neighborhoods.
--> @oromagiHey, Oro! How ya been?
Between Scylla and Charybdis, thx for asking.
But the police are never in possession of all the facts at the time of arrestWell, they were able to discern that the suspect was on some type of drug. They incorrectly thought he was on PCP because of his erratic behavior. Apparently, he was just drunk.
My point exactly. Better than half of all incidents police respond to involve alcohol but these cops mistake simple drunkenness for a drug that enjoyed a lot of frightened mythology among police but was in fact a fairly rare street drug by 1991. Color me skeptical.
Rodney King taunted some angry cops after leading them on a dangerous high speed chase. My assumption was and remains that The cops decided to teach King lesson (as cops have traditionally done with perps after a chase) and used a scary popular 15 year old mythology as justification.
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@bmdrocks21
You know the funny thing? Had Rodney King simply laid on the ground instead of resisting arrest, he would have left the whole incident perfectly safe.
We know that is false because King’s passengers, Allen and Helms were also beaten while laying prone on the ground. By all accounts neither resisted at all but both were beaten anyway. Helms needed stitches.
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@bmdrocks21
Solano is now one of the highest ranking officers in LAPD.Sounds like there are benefits to trying to convict your buddies in a post-LA Riot Los Angeles. Pretty sucky place to live now, too.
I don’t think most cops enjoy accusing their fellow officers of misconduct and in spite of early complicity, the overwhelming majority of cops on the scene eventually testified that Powell and Wind were out of control to a criminal degree and criminally refusing orders to cease.
Personally, I’ve always found LA enchanting. There’s a particular house in Silver Lake that has been my dream house for decades.
"members of the jury said this cut footage was essential to their decision to acquit the officers, who had claimed this step represented the first of a charge at them". The jury decided to acquit because of the footage cut out of the beginning. They decided to acquit based on evidence that most of the rioting public was not even aware of.
That is what the Simi Valley jury said but none of the eyewitnesses called it a charge or even resisting and they saw far more that the tape.
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@bmdrocks21
Whenever drug addict, criminal whites are killed by the police while resisting arrest, I never loot a Target or support them.
Yet another demonstration of just how the point to all of this went way over your head.
Then they watch a video with no context and raze a city to the ground.
Please explain the context that excuses an officer for kneeling on a man’s neck for 9 minutes, including 3 minutes after he stopped breathing.
He really isn't worth being concerned about. He has been arrested many times... But the fact that I don't care that he died probably makes me a lot more objective when looking at the evidence than someone who is "enraged" by the incident, no?
No. The fact that a man was killed slowly, in broad daylight while posing no threat whatsoever to the cop who killed him and your response to this is not to be bothered by what the cop did, but to talk about the person that he killed and how that person’s life wasn’t worth caring about shows not only that you have an incredible bias in this but that you are exactly what this movement is fighting to rid the world of.
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@Double_R
Yet another demonstration of just how the point to all of this went way over your head.
You kept saying this in our previous conversation. Condescension is not a substitute for actual valid points. Sorry to disappoint you, but someone had to say it.
Please explain the context that excuses an officer for kneeling on a man’s neck for 9 minutes, including 3 minutes after he stopped breathing.
Do you think that there is no value added by seeing him struggle with officers to not get in the car first? No value added by context of why he was there? Do you think there is no value added by the toxicology report and his health information? I'm going to wager a guess and say "no" because all you saw was a sad video, and now you're unwilling to actually consider the context of the case.
Exactly as I said it: someone "enraged" cannot be fit to make an objective decision.
No. The fact that a man was killed slowly, in broad daylight while posing no threat whatsoever to the cop who killed him and your response to this is not to be bothered by what the cop did, but to talk about the person that he killed and how that person’s life wasn’t worth caring about shows not only that you have an incredible bias in this but that you are exactly what this movement is fighting to rid the world of.
And there is your issue. You're still stuck presuming that the cop "killed him". You choose to be willfully ignorant of the impact of drugs on a guy with heart disease. During a previous arrest, he had to be taken to the hospital because he swallowed Percocet. The video footage looks like he might have swallowed more drugs during this arrest. But no, he DEFINITELY couldn't have OD'd
A "movement" that literally considers George Floyd, a drug addict that pressed a gun to a pregnant woman's stomach while robbing her, a saint? I'm fine having enemies such as those. I'm fine with being the enemy of the movement that lied to the public about "hands up, don't shoot".
I defend decent people and that is all. Once you start defending rapist Jacob Blake and robbers of pregnant women, don't expect most people to come aboard. :P
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@oromagi
Between Scylla and Charybdis, thx for asking.
That's just what you love to see, ladies and gentlemen!
My point exactly. Better than half of all incidents police respond to involve alcohol but these cops mistake simple drunkenness for a drug that enjoyed a lot of frightened mythology among police but was in fact a fairly rare street drug by 1991. Color me skeptical.Rodney King taunted some angry cops after leading them on a dangerous high speed chase. My assumption was and remains that The cops decided to teach King lesson (as cops have traditionally done with perps after a chase) and used a scary popular 15 year old mythology as justification.
That's definitely possible. The more I look at the case, the less clear cut it looks to me.
But that doesn't change the fact that I believe it wouldn't have been even 1/10 as bad if he had actually just laid on the ground like he was supposed to. His friend did unjustly get a laceration on his head from what I've seen. The other supposedly got kicked. So, maybe that was his "lesson" as you say.
He was quite drunk and resisting arrest/attempting to flee though, and the taser didn't work. So, they had to use batons. Regardless of the reason he was trying to flee, they kept using the batons because he kept trying to rise to his feet.
I really think that the way to stop police "brutality" is like 80-90%% on the perps to just comply with reasonable orders. Instances similar to these seem to come with the nature of the job. They had a huge guy who was on some type of drug running in their general direction. Not many optimal decisions to make there.
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@bmdrocks21
And there is your issue. You're still stuck presuming that the cop "killed him". You choose to be willfully ignorant of the impact of drugs on a guy with heart disease.
I started off this trial undecided on what killed him and whether Chauvin should be found guilty. I moved my position based on the facts, like the fact that every single individual who examined Floyd before and after his death said he died due to asphyxiation. To still be here talking about drugs, his heart, etc. in light of this is the willfully ignorant position.
A "movement" that literally considers George Floyd, a drug addict that pressed a gun to a pregnant woman's stomach while robbing her, a saint?
I defend decent people and that is all. Once you start defending rapist Jacob Blake and robbers of pregnant women, don't expect most people to come aboard.
When I tell you that you do not understand what this is all about, instead of getting butthurt over being condescended to, perhaps you should stop and think about what is actually being said.
This is an absolutely absurd portrayal of what BLM is arguing here. No one is out in the streets rioting because they think George Floyd or Jacob Blake are saints. That’s just a right wing talking point used to manipulate the ignorant into hating the left.
This is about the fact that police officers are not the judge, jury and executioner. They don’t get to decide whether someone’s life is worth being concerned about, and if they kill someone they are to be held accountable for their actions. They’re not calling Floyd a saint, they’re calling him a human being. They’re not rising up for Floyd, they’re rising up for themselves because they fear any one of them could be next. What is so hard about that?
Do you think that there is no value added by seeing him struggle with officers to not get in the car first? No value added by context of why he was there?
None whatsoever. Police officers are public servants. They are working on the taxpayer’s dime, trained with our tax dollars, given a gun, a badge, and entrusted with the authority to use them. If they cannot handle their tempers or someone not following their instructions, they are in the wrong job.
We have a system of justice in this country for a reason. If someone resists arrest that is a violation for the courts to adjudicate. George Floyd never got that chance, so I couldn’t give a shit less about whatever he did. Justice in this situation was not for Derek Chauvin to impose.
We have a system of justice in this country for a reason. If someone resists arrest that is a violation for the courts to adjudicate. George Floyd never got that chance, so I couldn’t give a shit less about whatever he did. Justice in this situation was not for Derek Chauvin to impose.
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@bmdrocks21
I really think that the way to stop police "brutality" is like 80-90%% on the perps to just comply with reasonable orders.
So fixing police brutality is not the responsibility of the police, it’s the responsibility of the private citizens being arrested. Got it.
And what’s hilarious about this mentality is that it comes from the same segment of our population ranting and raving about government tyranny because someone told them to put on a mask.
This moment taught the mob one important lesson: rioting works.
Exactly
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@Double_R
And what’s hilarious about this mentality is that it comes from the same segment of our population ranting and raving about government tyranny because someone told them to put on a mask.
I put it on. It is a mild annoyance, but that is all.
So fixing police brutality is not the responsibility of the police, it’s the responsibility of the private citizens being arrested. Got it.
For the 10-20% that it is their fault, it is the responsibility of the police. But most of the time when there is a police-involved ass whoopin', it is because the perp fights with the cop. I think that it is the responsibility of citizens to not dig around in their glove compartment during traffic stops and be confrontational/aggressive towards cops. Chris Rock made a hilarious clip about this over a decade ago https://youtu.be/uj0mtxXEGE8 Funnily enough, he mentioned Rodney King lol
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@bmdrocks21
For the 10-20% that it is their fault, it is the responsibility of the police. But most of the time when there is a police-involved ass whoopin', it is because the perp fights with the cop.
Police brutality is literally defined as the excessive and unwarranted use of force. It is by definition, no one else’s fault. What you’re trying to do is excuse it, which is absurd. You’re holding professionals paid with your tax dollars to the same standard as the people they are sworn to protect.
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@Double_R
Police brutality is literally defined as the excessive and unwarranted use of force. It is by definition, no one else’s fault. What you’re trying to do is excuse it, which is absurd. You’re holding professionals paid with your tax dollars to the same standard as the people they are sworn to protect.
Yeah, it is the definition. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems that the term is generally overapplied to things that were warranted. So, to clarify, I'll say most times something bad happens to a criminal during the arrest, such as batons getting used, it is the fault of the criminal and not violent cops just jumpy to beat a stranger.
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@Double_R
This is an absolutely absurd portrayal of what BLM is arguing here. No one is out in the streets rioting because they think George Floyd or Jacob Blake are saints. That’s just a right wing talking point used to manipulate the ignorant into hating the left.
They literally painted murals of Floyd with angel wings and a halo. They gave him a golden casket.
"Depictions included Floyd as a ghost in Minneapolis, as an angel in Houston, and as a saint weeping blood in Naples."
And you guys do plenty of stuff to make normal people hate you. No need to use talking points lol. For instance, burning small businesses and saying "oh it's okay, you have insurance. Lives over property!"
This is about the fact that police officers are not the judge, jury and executioner. They don’t get to decide whether someone’s life is worth being concerned about, and if they kill someone they are to be held accountable for their actions. They’re not calling Floyd a saint, they’re calling him a human being. They’re not rising up for Floyd, they’re rising up for themselves because they fear any one of them could be next. What is so hard about that?
Sure, there should have absolutely have been a trial. But that trial should have been moved out of the city and the jury should have been sequestered the entire time. A court case should be the used for many police-involved deaths that don't involve imminent danger.
But your groups aren't looking for justice. You're looking for a conviction. That's why the national guard needed to be called in before the verdict was read.
Plus, a riot happened every time some black guy got shot by police all summer, even if no death occurred. They didn't care if it was justified or not, they just wanted to Burn.Loot.Murder.
None whatsoever. Police officers are public servants. They are working on the taxpayer’s dime, trained with our tax dollars, given a gun, a badge, and entrusted with the authority to use them. If they cannot handle their tempers or someone not following their instructions, they are in the wrong job.
And when you vilify cops and defund them, guess what? Only the bad ones will stay. Thousands of officers are taking early retirement. Nobody wants to be a cop when they have to deal with lefty bullshit because it lowers morale, as well as having worse equipment/compensation. And then, standards get lower! Yay!
We have a system of justice in this country for a reason. If someone resists arrest that is a violation for the courts to adjudicate. George Floyd never got that chance, so I couldn’t give a shit less about whatever he did. Justice in this situation was not for Derek Chauvin to impose.
No, it wasn't. I don't disagree with courts' role. I don't think it was optimal that a death occurred. However, it is also not the role of the public to threaten the jury into giving them the verdict they want.
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@bmdrocks21
That’s just a right-wing talking point used to manipulate the ignorant into hating the left.
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@Greyparrot
Hah, reminds me of when the Joker said in a comic that he hates Nazis and all of the nerds went nuts over it. They thought it was compelling or something.
Loved when people started pairing that comic with pictures like this https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1c/Batmanthekillingjoke.jpg/220px-Batmanthekillingjoke.jpg
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@bmdrocks21
As I said, I welcome our new "racist" overlords because the alternative is absolute insanity.
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@bmdrocks21
I really think that the way to stop police "brutality" is like 80-90%% on the perps to just comply with reasonable orders
My experience tells me otherwise.
- Once I got pulled over for expired plates and after a long wait ten other cop cars surrounded my vehicle. Then I was asked to step out the vehicle with a bunch of guns drawn on me. When I stepped out, I was punched down to the ground and roughly hand-cuffed. I had cuts on my face, broken glasses, bleeding knees, cuts on my wrists because the handcuffs were too tight. I was taken downtown to jail but nobody explained what was going on. After hours in cuffs and isolation, the arresting officer explained that somebody with my same name and description had recently assaulted a police officer. He apologized for the rough treatment but there was no offer to drive me home at 3am. I had to walk miles back to my car to discover it had been towed.
- Another time, police ambushed me and tackled me roughly as I was walking from my home to 7-11. After being cuffed and laying face down on the sidewalk for 30 minutes, the cops explained they thought I was some perp they were chasing. At the time, I accepted the explanation but nowadays I wonder. It was probably a full 30 seconds before I understood that I was being assaulted by police. What if I managed to punch or kick one of these cops before realizing they were cops? I'd probably still be in prison today.
- One time I witnessed two police cars speeding through a park that was popular place for gays to barbecue and play volleyball. The passenger side windows were rolled down and the cops were just nightsticking random gay guys while moving at potentially fatal speeds. The cops were whooping and yelling faggot, etc and just essentially terrorizing law-abiding citizens for no reason beyond personal prejudice.
- One time I witnessed a police shooting from my 9th floor balcony. A guy had just left a bar and got into his car when the police approached. His car was in neutral (I later read) and when he took his foot off the brake the car started moving downhill. Two cops unloaded through the back window, killing the driver. One cop reloaded and fired a few more times even though the car and driver were unmoving against a wall and the poor guy was long dead. Toxicology later showed the guy wasn't even drunk but he had 22 bullet holes in his back. There was a big investigation but both cops were eventually exonerated. One of those cops was involved in four other police shootings before eventually getting fired years later.
- One time, I was driving from one of my company's offices to another half a mile away when I got pulled over. The cop actually refused to tell me why but demanded to search my vehicle because I had gay porn displayed on my driver's seat (in fact, it was a DVD of a Josh Hartnett movie called "Blow Dry"). When I said it wasn't porn and argued that even if it was porn it would not amount to probable cause the officer got very tense and threatening. He did search my car and found nothing. I was not ticketed for anything and no explanation was ever offered so I assume that the officer was simply reacting to a rainbow sticker on my bumper.
- I could tell anecdotes all day of similar experiences from friends and families. I could also tell many, many heroic and heartwarming stories of police compassion and bravery experienced first hand.
- I relate these just to bear witness for your edification- I know for a fact that police conduct can be unlawful even to the perfectly compliant, even when police haven't taken the time to ascertain the facts. If it has happened a few times to an law abiding white male like myself, then I have to believe that the black experience is many times worse. I believe that police brutality has been substantially reduced over the past few decades and I believe that the problem is incredibly complicated by social factors like common gun ownership. I don't think it pays to generalize so every case must be reviewed on the merits. But I also know better than to offer police the default trust they traditionally expect to enjoy.
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@oromagi
my same name and description had recently assaulted a police officer
That is a really insane coincidence!
The cops were whooping and yelling faggot, etc and just essentially terrorizing law-abiding citizens for no reason beyond personal prejudice.
I have never seen anything remotely close to that.
I don't know, maybe your city's cops are just dreadful. I'd guess that it varies considerably by city and state how nice and ethical officers are. I usually hear bad things about big city cops, but I'm from a moderate-sized city and have never had an issue with them nor heard of one. Maybe the high crime rates in cities push a lot of the better and more qualified people from the profession or maybe all of that danger wears on them.
Anyway, I appreciate you sharing your experiences.