How hypocritical 99% of society is

Author: TheUnderdog

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#1
TheUnderdog
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Society: We think it should be illegal to have sex with animals because we care so much about animal rights and animal lives matter.  Sex where the animal consents is wrong because the animal must be protected.  It doesn't matter that it feels good to some people, we must ban it.

Also society: Refuses to go vegetarian because eating meat feels good even though vegetarian diets have been proven to be healthy for people to eat and vegetarians tend to live longer than meat eaters.

Me: If you care about animal consent, why aren't you vegetarian?
#2
thett3
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You’re really on fire today lol. For the same reason there are animal abuse laws. Killing an animal to eat is a just act so long as they are treated well during their lives (unfortunately a great many are not. But that’s a different topic)

Wanting to have sex with an animal is abuse for the sake of abuse. You don’t need sexual gratification, people do need to eat. But more than that if someone wants to have sex with animals they are a disgusting reprobate. I couldn’t care less if the dog “consents” someone who can’t control their sexual urges to the point that they want to lower themselves in such a way isn’t fit to be around the rest of us. Just go hire a prostitute ffs 
#3
Fruit_Inspector
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@TheUnderdog
Is it morally wrong to have sex with animals?

If so, then there is no hypocrisy to make it illegal to have sex with animals while not being a vegetarian.

If not, I hope you don't have pets.
#4
Nyxified
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@TheUnderdog
Sex where the animal consents is wrong because the animal must be protected.
You're:
  • Assuming animals have the intellectual capacity and maturity to consent
  • Assuming they have the communication to express consent (especially towards specific sexual acts rather than just sex in general)
  • Assuming there is no way for either the animal or the human to be physically harmed
Humanity's existence as an omnivore in the food web is not at all equivalent to fucking an animal.
#5
Dr.Franklin
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oh my God are you really making that comparison?
#6
RationalMadman
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@Dr.Franklin
Yes, he really is.
#7
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@thett3
Just go hire a prostitute ffs 
WARNING SOMEWHAT GRAPHIC CONTENT FOLLOWS

I think that bestiality is very, very rarely an actual attraction to animals (I accept this severe minority of genuine furries exist).

Normally, the act is much more akin to prison rape on a man by a man who isn't gay at all, or woman who wasn't all that into women before doing it in prison with a broomstick or fist etc.

The thing is it's abuse indeed, as you said it was. That abuse, the sheer inability of the victim to resist and guarantee it can't run and tell is the ecstasy for the sociopathic type who does it.

As I said, there is a very slight minority who really are attracted to the animal, for them I think it's more loneliness driven as they experienced nothing but pain and rejection from humanity but that's another thing to delve into.
#8
Athias
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@TheUnderdog
Society: We think it should be illegal to have sex with animals because we care so much about animal rights and animal lives matter.  Sex where the animal consents is wrong because the animal must be protected.  It doesn't matter that it feels good to some people, we must ban it.

Also society: Refuses to go vegetarian because eating meat feels good even though vegetarian diets have been proven to be healthy for people to eat and vegetarians tend to live longer than meat eaters.

Me: If you care about animal consent, why aren't you vegetarian?
Non-human animals don't have rights. And whether one can "lay the pipe" is contingent on the prerogative of their owners.

#9
RationalMadman
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@Athias
According to you, humans don't either. Correct?
#10
Athias
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@RationalMadman
According to you, humans don't either. Correct?
They most certainly do. Where did I ever suggest otherwise?
#11
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@Athias
How utterly arbitrary.
#12
Athias
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@RationalMadman
How utterly arbitrary.
Selective? Yes. Arbitrary? No. Non-human animals aren't moral agents; thus, they have no "rights"=moral concepts.

#13
Wylted
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@TheUnderdog
Also society: Refuses to go vegetarian because eating meat feels good even though vegetarian diets have been proven to be healthy for people to eat and vegetarians tend to live longer than meat eaters.
Vegetarians have a longer life expectancy, but vegans have a lower one. It is unclear what the differences in life expectancy are between health conscious vegetarians and health conscious omnivores though
#14
thett3
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@RationalMadman
Yeah exactly. It’s a power move, something that comes from a severely distorted sexuality 
#15
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@Athias
Non-human animals aren't moral agents; thus, they have no "rights"=moral concepts.
Arbitrary. A human is indeed 100% animal, the line we draw between us and them is our own animalistic instinct at play.
#16
oromagi
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As Penn Jillette likes to say, one advantage of hypocrisy is that it doubles your chances of being right at some point.
#17
drlebronski
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underdogs posts are getting weirder and weirder
#18
dfss9788
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@TheUnderdog
the animal consents
I doubt animals have the mental capacity. Perhaps some do, like dolphins which are intelligent and apparently are doing sex things all the time.
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#19
TheUnderdog
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@dfss9788
Every animal that has sex can consent to sex to the best of my knowledge.  Moreover, if your against legalizing beastiality because of fears of animal consent, would you also be opposed to drinking dairy (when cows are raped to get dairy and their calves killed) given that there are alternative ways to get all the nutrients that dairy provides?
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#20
TheUnderdog
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@Wylted
Do you have a source for this?  The original vegans weren't health obsessed; they merely didn't like exploiting animals.  The health benefits came as a bonus.
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#21
TheUnderdog
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@Fruit_Inspector
Is it morally wrong to have sex with animals?

If so, then there is no hypocrisy to make it illegal to have sex with animals while not being a vegetarian.
This is incorrect.  Animals don't consent to beastiality or to being killed for meat.  If you value animal consent enough to ban having sex with them, you also should be vegan.
#22
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@TheUnderdog
This is incorrect. Animals don't consent to beastiality or to being killed for meat. If you value animal consent enough to ban having sex with them, you also should be vegan.
This is incorrect. I don't want banned because of the issue of consent. I want it banned because it's an abomination and morally evil in and of itself. And I have a foundation to say so.

Is lack of consent the only reason you think bestiality is wrong? Assuming you actually believe it is wrong of course.
#23
dfss9788
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@TheUnderdog
Every animal that has sex can consent to sex to the best of my knowledge.  Moreover, if your against legalizing beastiality because of fears of animal consent, would you also be opposed to drinking dairy (when cows are raped to get dairy and their calves killed) given that there are alternative ways to get all the nutrients that dairy provides?
TBH I don't care much for the animals. They are largely property or free beings in the wild. I'm pretty live and let live. The point at which I would interfere would probably have more to do with suffering than consent. Like, people hitting their dogs for no reason or leaving them tied somewhere without food and water.

Also milking a cow isn't rape. Artificial insemination is more along those lines but it has a clear purpose.
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#24
TheUnderdog
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@thett3
You’re really on fire today lol. For the same reason there are animal abuse laws. Killing an animal to eat is a just act so long as they are treated well during their lives (unfortunately a great many are not. But that’s a different topic)
Anyone healthy that is killed isn't "treated well" including most healthy animals.  The consensus of scientific evidence confirms that one does not need to eat animal products to get any nutrients.

 But more than that if someone wants to have sex with animals they are a disgusting reprobate.

If you think it's disgusting to have sex with animals; that's fine; you don't have to do it and you don't have to watch others do it.  I think it's disgusting too, so I don't want to do it.  I however do not want to jail somebody for something that is merely visually unappealing.  Otherwise we would have to jail ugly people.
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#25
TheUnderdog
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@Fruit_Inspector
 I want it banned because it's an abomination and morally evil in and of itself.
Definition of abomination: 

"a thing that causes disgust or hatred."

I fail to see how sex with animals can cause hatred.  If you think it's disgusting; that's fine; you don't have to do it.  But people ought to pursue their desire for victimless happiness.
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#26
TheUnderdog
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@dfss9788
Also milking a cow isn't rape. Artificial insemination is more along those lines but it has a clear purpose.
Artificial insemination is the only way milk is produced at a scale large enough to feed billions of omnivores.  Either animals have rights or they don't.  If they have rights, you can't kill or rape them via artificial insemination for food.  If they don't, it ought to be legal to have sex with them.
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#27
TheUnderdog
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@drlebronski

Hey; I'm only asking for some consistency.  If you think animals don't deserve rights, your free to advocate for legalizing beastiality.  If you think they do deserve rights, your free to stop eating their products.  But 90% of society is totally hypocritical on this.

Also unblock me if you want me to respond to you.
#28
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@TheUnderdog
So you don't believe bestiality is wrong?
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#29
TheUnderdog
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@Nyxified
Humanity's existence as an omnivore in the food web is not at all equivalent to fucking an animal.
How so?  Milk is only obtained through artificial insemination, which is rape.  At least having sex with an animal with human sperm doesn't cause an unwanted pregnency.

If you think animals don't deserve rights, then you ought to think there is nothing wrong with having sex with an animal

If you think animals do deserve rights, then you ought to be willing to go vegan to be principled.

All I'm asking for is some consistency.
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#30
TheUnderdog
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@Fruit_Inspector
I want to be vegan in the future (so I believe that an animal has the right to life and by extension, not getting raped).  However, there have been some pretty horny animals that I have came across in videos and movies that would be fine with having consensual, non PTSD causing sex with humans.  I think consensual bestiality should be legal, although I don't want to do it.