Why is nobody advocating to avoid mRNA but also to get vaccinated anyway?

The main reason to get vaccinated during this time is that the science supports it, not just politicians (if you aren't in a group that will be risky with JJ or AZ, I recommend them instead of mRNA if you are a conspiracy theorist about mRNA).

I think it is easy to assume that all tyranny is inherently 'wrong' as in worth fighting but sometimes it may be the tyrant wants what's best for us. Not all strict parents are giving their children bad orders, it comes down to the 'why'. In my opinion, vaccination has strong why's at this point, the only debate is if mRNA is worth the risk of what it can do to our cells in the long run.

I disagree with the approach of recommending the riskier vaccines that are using brand new science that hijacks cells to make us immune (mRNA). What do I mean by 'riskier' well, even if it has the higher efficacy rate in being protective against Covid variants and even if in the short-term it is showing less side effects for the non-allergic to its ingredients, mRNA vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna are actually riskier from a skeptic's perspective no matter how much your jab nurse will try to talk you out of it (UNLESS YOU ARE of a particular capillary and any kind of blood related issue or allergic issue with ingredients in AZ/JJ)don't listen to the 'logic' because that isn't how probability works.

You can't say the risk is greater because the bad of the other option isn't knowable yet. After enough boosters with gradual alteration to body cells then by around booster 6, then we may begin to see really what's happening as enough will be altered to even get a hope of a glimpse. We are barely on booster 1 for the older population, we don't know a thing about mRNA's long-term ability to damage the body.

Thus, I ask both sides, why they don't go for the oldschool vaccines like AstraZeneca and Johson & Johnson, you cannot really be losing out you can at worst gain not much vs delta and now omnicron variant but at least vs Covid-19 you are immune to high degrees, following your second jab of AZ or first jab of JJ (JJ is less good specifically because it's only a single jab but that's a debate for another day).

I will like both anti-vaxxers and pro-mRNA to tell the logic of their stances.

mRNA is something that is present in all cells. To avoid mRNA would literally mean death.

Thanks for reminding me why I blocked you.

I love how a vaccine that mimics an infection is better protection than your body fighting an actual infection.

The problem with natural immunity is that no one makes any money off it.

This is exactly what I did. I got the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. I am not super worried about mRNA vaccines but since there was an option available that wasn’t using new technology I figured I would go with that one 

Idk how it is in your state or situation but I had to really fight/argue with my jab nurse over it extensively before he/she accepted it.

There have been more Covid deaths under Biden than Trump, and that is with the vaccine. 

Whatever Biden is doing, isn't working.

define more in the context of what you said please because most were at the start of Biden's presidency.

Whatever Biden is doing, isn't working.

What exactly is your point?

I'm not listening to some shitty Fox Business segment about a science issue. What specifically is not working?

What-ever.

That means what ever you say is working is actually not working because the Deaths are increasing.

define increasing please, do you mean the rate of increase or just increase itself?

Biden has had the vaccine for a full year. There's no more excuses for having more deaths. At what point is Biden responsible?

And don't give me that bullshit that the unvaccinated are killing the vaccinated.

100% of the people were unvaccinated under Trump with less deaths.

they're killing themselves overall, not sure where your citations are for your accusations.

The whole world does not have a single nation other than maybe Taiwan where it's totally steadily heading down, some are plateauing at best.

do you know how death toll works? You are saying it got added onto including those under Trump by adding those under Biden onto it including even on his day one as President... Idk what to tell you, it's ridiculous.

I'm just fucking sick of the excuses.

@RM I hope you realize that silencing people does not make your forum topics more precise.

mRNA is literally present in all cells. mRNA is a kind of ribonucleic acid that leaves the nuclear pore of the nucleus to "print" the information for a part of the gene, which could then be "read" by a ribosome to synthesize amino acids into proteins in a particular order. If anyone is anti-mRNA, that probably means he knows way too little biology.

I felt not specifying 'mRNA covid vaccines' in a thread where the context and original post make it crystal clear what I meant was and acceptable character-cut.

go ahead though, showcase your supreme ability to misinterpret and derail.

Biden isn't not doing anything.

It's people not doing anything that is the problem.

Oh, and quite a nasty viral pathogen.

And the purpose of a vaccine is......?

Whatever Biden "isn't not" doing is not working .

What is it that you think he might be doing, that's not doing anything?

Do you think that if Donald were still here, the virus would have done a runner?

I don't give a fuck about Trump. 

I'm holding Biden responsible.

Responsible for what?

Perhaps you should be holding someone in China responsible...Fat lot of good that would do, I know.

Drew Weissman, MD, PhD, a professor of Infectious Diseases in the Perelman School of Medicine, and Katalin Karikó, PhD, an adjunct associate professor at Penn and a senior vice president at BioNTech, found that mRNA vaccines can not only prompt strong antibody responses to fight off invaders, like COVID-19, but also potent cytotoxic T cell responses.
That’s important because these T cells can kill cancer cells. They just need to be altered or motivated to do it. Think immunotherapy, like checkpoint inhibitors or chimeric antigen receptor (CAR) T cell therapy that engineers a patient’s own T cells to find and destroy cancer cells.
“A successful therapeutic cancer vaccine should induce strong T cell responses, particularly with CD8+ T cells, which have a known capacity to kill malignant cells,” said Pardi, who is currently leading studies to better understand mRNA vaccines to treat cancers, along with other diseases. Pardi was also a postdoctoral researcher in Weissman’s lab and a frequent collaborator with him and Karikó. “Therapeutic cancer vaccines would be given to cancer patients with the hope that those vaccine-induced cytotoxic T cells would clear tumor cells.”
One example is an mRNA vaccine that targets proteins called neoantigens on a tumor to fight it. A neoantigen is a new protein that forms on cancer cells when certain mutations occur in tumor DNA.
“It’s a promising group of cancer antigens to keep exploring,” Weissman said

I don't get how Biden is responsible. We have (or had) the solutions to this problem, and because people didn't utilize them, evolution of the virus occurred (as scientists predicted) and resulted in variants that are harder to control (also as scientists, or really anyone with even a cursory understanding of evolution via natural selection, predicted). Just on a rough timeline of the pandemic:

INITIALLY: "Social distance, work from home, avoid contact with others. Best thing to do  is stay home and stop the virus from spreading." Government leadership initially resisted making any move at all, the president himself said we'd have zero cases soon. So some people complied, some took their cue from leaders saying "This is just the flu" and "It'll be over soon" and "WHY CAN'T I GO SING IN CHURCH!" and decided against it. That works FOR the virus, not against it, contirbuting to rapid spread in states where spread would have been much more difficult due to population density. Who then is responsible for the people not following these easy instructions? Joe Biden? 

AFTER EASTER WASN'T NORMAL: wear masks. Indoors, outdoors, wherever there are people whose virus status you cannot be certain of. I hate to say it but it's republicans who started assigning a stigma to wearing a mask for the protection of others, and for yourself. Mask mandates were reviled. State capitols are stormed by assholes who don't understand why they can't go shopping like normal. People get into huge arguments in stores over MASKS. If everyone had followed directoins, spread is much more difficult. "UNMASK OUR KIDS" is probably the dumbest thing there is, as it always focused on the idea that kids "don't really get sick, so they shouldn't be subject to these nazi solcialist marcist communist unconstitutional laws!" When in fact the problem ISN'T kids not getting sick, it's that they get the virus, don't show symptoms, then spread it to more vulnerable populations. Masks work, they've always worked, and still to this day, governors are making it illegal to mandate their use temporarily. Why? For no good reason. If everyone had followed this instruction, AND social distanced, spread (another word for reproduction) would have been more difficult. Who is responsible for the governors making mask mandates an issue? Joe Biden? Who's responsible for people not wearing them still? Joe Biden? 

AFTER A VACCINE IS AVAILABLE: "I'm not taking that, I don't trust it," again largely along party lines, which is odd, because you'd think republicans would want credit for the vaccine's development. THe data shows hesitancy again in largely red states and populations. I'm not into mandating medical treatment, but I'm certainly not against workplaces wanting to keep their workers safe and saying "If you want to work here, get vaccinated." I don't have any objection to having an enjoyable evening at a restaurant with my wife, provided I can show proof of vaccination...if I didn't want to show proof, I can cook at home. But people seem to want to have their cake (not getting vaccinated) and eat it too (endangering all citizens because they want their chicken wings at a bar dammit).  Who is responsible for people not taking a vaccine that isn't federally, or locally, mandated by law? The vaccine is widely available. It is free. It is safe. It works (look at the charts). People don't want to take it, but there's no effort to educate those people from their elected leaders, instead it's shoulder shrugs at best, anti-vax rhetoric at worst, which again, odd, because it's their voters who will pay a disproportionate price. How is Joe Biden responsible for this in your view?

Of course you don't

It's working FYI.

Charts at the bottom comparing unvaccinated death rates as well as the efficacies of the various vaccines that exist now. It's pretty black and white.

Not sure what exactly you were expecting to see in the data, and why. Perhaps if you made some concrete predictions and gave a logical justification to it - then I could respond more directly.

 352,000 deaths recorded in the year 2020 with no vaccine.

 430,000+ deaths recorded in the year 2021 (so far) WITH a vaccine.

What I expect after endless propaganda from DC that the vaccine will save lives is a reduction in deaths during a year of vaccines from an entire year of no vaccine.

Less deaths instead of excuses. That's what I expected to see, and I am sure everyone that took the vaccine expected that as well. If the vaccine wasn't enough, then DC is fucking up somewhere else. 

Stop apologizing for failures. Stop calling objective failure a nuanced success story. It's not fine.

What are your theories as to why the deaths are a lot higher this year despite the widespread usage of vaccines?