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@Fruit_Inspector
Here's the kicker: it doesn't allow us to get back to normal, this has always been their goal
Vaccine Mandate Purpose
Posts
Total:
85
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@Dr.Franklin
Here's the kicker: it doesn't allow us to get back to normal, this has always been their goal
The only "back to normal" acceptable to a Democrat politician is unrestricted full control of every American.
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@Greyparrot
exactly
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@oromagi
We didn't feel that way about flu shots when they started becoming regularly promoted, when? 15-20 yrs ago. Before the pandemic, most hospital jobs mandated a flu vaccine uncontroversially, most schools mandated a series of vaccines uncontroversially.
Admittedly, schools are a bit of a gray area in my mind when it comes to vaccines, so I'll avoid that since that is not the core issue I am concerned with. However, I would guess that I could dig up lawsuits and other controversies regarding mandated flu vaccines within that 15-20 year period. This would mean the mandates weren't uncontroversial.
Before FOX and Trump decided to try to divide the nation about the issue, regular vaccinations had been a very normal part of American society for more than 50 years.
I will remind you that I don't watch Fox, so any opposition to mandating these vaccines does not originate from them. Also, mRNA vaccines have not been a part of American society for even two years.
What seems odd is the present popularity of the once fringe philosophies of anti-vaxxers in the face of overwhelming evidence of the safety and effectiveness of vaccinations.
Are you talking about anti-vaxxers who are against all vaccines, anti-vaxxers who support all vaccines except the new mRNA vaccines, or anti-vaxxers who support all vaccines (including mRNA) but simply oppose vaccine mandates? This clarification would be important when talking about the "philosophies of anti-vaxxers." That term has become increasingly broad as of late...
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@Dr.Franklin
Here's the kicker: it doesn't allow us to get back to normal, this has always been their goal
I agree with you on this. I am increasingly convinced that there are many powerful players like the World Economic Forum working tirelessly to usher in the Great Reset and the Fourth Industrial Revolution.
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@Dr.Franklin
Who are they?
And what is normal Doc?
Normal is people fearful of change.
And Dem or Con makes no difference.
Tomorrow is always the New Normal.
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@Fruit_Inspector
-->@oromagiAdmittedly, schools are a bit of a gray area in my mind when it comes to vaccines, so I'll avoid that since that is not the core issue I am concerned with. However, I would guess that I could dig up lawsuits and other controversies regarding mandated flu vaccines within that 15-20 year period. This would mean the mandates weren't uncontroversial.
...and RM regularly denies that the Earth is round. I suppose that technically speaking any degree of opposition makes an idea controversial and therefore every idea is controversial but I was speaking more generally of American societal norms.
Your claim was that employee mandates would "seem odd." My argument is that such mandates are correctly seen as generally accepted by American society for the past couple of generations (and therefore not "odd").
I will remind you that I don't watch Fox, so any opposition to mandating these vaccines does not originate from them.
Whether you watch FOX News is irrelevant to the point that FOX serves as the primary gatekeeper and distribution node for most right-wing propaganda and disinformation. As we established in our earlier discussion of CRT, your misuse of those initials as a euphemism for civil rights stems from Tucker Carlson's deliberate decision to misuse that term in Sept 2020, whether you ever watched FOX or not. The notion of ivermectin as a potential treatment for COVID had been floating around for months, mostly within the least credible circles of social media hell until Tucker Carlson began to call social media crackdowns censorship beginning Jun 12, 2021. By September, ivermectin sales increased 30 fold in spite of FDA warnings. When FOX News pushed anti-vax last summer, the right-wing went anti-vax. When FOX stopped pushing (mostly) in Oct, resistance to vaccines rapidly quiesced. Whether you know it or not, FOX News controls what right-wing America thinks to a depressingly potent degree.
Are you talking about anti-vaxxers who are against all vaccines, [or] anti-vaxxers who support all vaccines except the new mRNA vaccines [?]
Both of these as I see little enough difference in the quality or nature of arguments vs. either to merit distinction.
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@zedvictor4
If normal is a state of being rather than a reason for being, then there is no reason to cling on to hope.
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@Greyparrot
We cling on for a short lifetime.
And the older we get, the more we fear change.
And everyday we have a new normal.
Though we don't always realise.
I can remember when a normal phone was in a little red building by the side of the road.
We've moved on a tad since then.
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@zedvictor4
We've moved on a tad since then.
Have we really? Is the next generation of phones the reason for living?
Buddha would disagree.
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@oromagi
...and RM regularly denies that the Earth is round. I suppose that technically speaking any degree of opposition makes an idea controversial and therefore every idea is controversial but I was speaking more generally of American societal norms.
You are speaking in vague generalities and then trying to make judgments about how much controversy qualifies something as "uncontroversial," then applying that same standard into today's context. Maybe using more concrete examples would be helpful if you're going to follow this line of logic.
Your claim was that employee mandates would "seem odd." My argument is that such mandates are correctly seen as generally accepted by American society for the past couple of generations (and therefore not "odd").
This was my original statement:
- It would seem odd to make access to employment and other such important aspects of society contingent upon annual or biannual vaccinations for all eligible adults indefinitely.
I was not just referring to employment at a hospital. I was talking about access to employment in general being contingent upon receiving a vaccine based on new technology that has never before been used in the general public. Nor do I recall a point in American history where participation in general society (such as seen with vaccine passports) was contingent upon one's vaccination status.
Whether you watch FOX News is irrelevant to the point that FOX serves as the primary gatekeeper and distribution node for most right-wing propaganda and disinformation.
If I go to primary sources for my information, and my opinions were formed prior to Fox News reporting on a particular viewpoint, how does that make Fox News a gatekeeper for the information that I receive and the source of my opinions?
As we established in our earlier discussion of CRT, your misuse of those initials as a euphemism for civil rights stems from Tucker Carlson's deliberate decision to misuse that term in Sept 2020, whether you ever watched FOX or not.
We established no such thing. If I recall correctly, you stopped responding to my posts. I don't have a problem with that at all, but don't pretend we somehow established that I'm wrong if you just dropped out of the conversation.
I also never used CRT as a euphemism for civil right, and explicitly denied that assertion. That is a false accusations, so please stop using it. And even if I am misusing the terminology of CRT, I have been misusing it since well before September of 2020, and I know of other sources who have also done so. This is also a false accusations, so please stop using it.
The notion of ivermectin as a potential treatment for COVID had been floating around for months, mostly within the least credible circles of social media hell until Tucker Carlson began to call social media crackdowns censorship beginning Jun 12, 2021. By September, ivermectin sales increased 30 fold in spite of FDA warnings. When FOX News pushed anti-vax last summer, the right-wing went anti-vax. When FOX stopped pushing (mostly) in Oct, resistance to vaccines rapidly quiesced. Whether you know it or not, FOX News controls what right-wing America thinks to a depressingly potent degree.
Are you arguing that the news source someone chooses to follow affects their decisions and beliefs to some degree? Because we can agree on that. Are you not affected by the news sources you watch/listen to? I could point out ways the public has been fed misinformation by CNN and others such as in the Kyle Rittenhouse incident. But to make sweeping statements like "all Democrats only believe whatever CNN tells them" is fallacious at best.
Are you talking about anti-vaxxers who are against all vaccines, [or] anti-vaxxers who support all vaccines except the new mRNA vaccines [?]Both of these as I see little enough difference in the quality or nature of arguments vs. either to merit distinction.
Well you left out the last category, because people who support all vaccines (including new mRNA vaccines) but simply oppose vaccine mandates are now considered anti-vaxxers. And that is not a "once-fringe philosophy."
Also, there are a great many conservatives (including myself) who have no problem with previous vaccines that have shown safety over a long period of time, but would like to see long-term safety data on a brand new vaccine technology before it is forced into use for the entire global population.
The "once-fringe philosophy" of anti-vaxxers you seem to be referring to is from those that claim vaccines cause autism and such. That actually used to be one of the few issues the right and the left could agree on.
But as I have said before, I think you are smart enough to recognize the sleight of hand when it comes to the redefinition of a term like "anti-vaxxers" in your rhetoric. You are capitalizing on the "anti-vaxxers" sentiment we all used to agree on, and then turning that to apply to anyone who thinks people shouldn't be fired from their jobs nationwide for not agreeing to mRNA vaccines and indefinite boosters.
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@zedvictor4
no zed, this isnt related to your poetry, normal is a nation not in fear of covid insanity
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@Fruit_Inspector
exactly, its about the systematic destruction of America
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@Fruit_Inspector
Also, there are a great many conservatives (including myself) who have no problem with previous vaccines that have shown safety over a long period of time, but would like to see long-term safety data on a brand new vaccine technology before it is forced into use for the entire global population.
Summarized safety data from VAERS is here:
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@Greyparrot
Are phones a reason for living?
Sure, for some.....New Normal.
And Buddha
Some long since dead Eastern Guy.
Way past disagreement.
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@Dr.Franklin
Normal is a Nation in fear of Covid Doc.
As is denying the fact.
As is not denying the fact.
As is attempting to make a political weapon out of a virus.
As will be dying and not being here tomorrow.
Stay safe Doc.
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@oromagi
I think its a mistake to advertise or hope for a return to normal- that there's some point in the past that's preferable to what we have now. That may be a core tenant of conservatism but its not something I've ever much bought into.
Do you really not want an end to COVID? Where I live, there haven’t been any restrictions for over a year. But there are still places where children are wearing masks in schools, we still have to wear masks in airplanes…do you want this to just continue forever?
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@thett3
Masks were 'relatively common in some countries before Covid, I 'think.
Though perhaps not in the extreme we see masks now.
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@zedvictor4
Normal is a Nation in fear of Covid Doc.
There's more people afraid of what the government can do than what Covid can do at this point.
You can't bolster your immunity from tyranny.
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@zedvictor4
they want you to fear covid, normal is not fear of covid
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@Greyparrot
An unlikely statistic.
Do you have any impartial survey data to back up that claim?
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@Dr.Franklin
The "they" Doc.
Who actually are "they".
Conspiracy theorists always blame the "they".
So if I locked you in an enclosed room with a group of covid infected "they".
Would it not be normal for you to be fearful?
Similarly, if I didn't lock you in a room with a group of infected "they".
And left you on your backwoods veranda with your moonshine, your banjo and your pot of lucky shamrock.
Would it not be normal for you not to be fearful?
Normal is whatever it might be at the time Doc.
I bet that fear soon became the New Normal for Caleb Wallace and H Scott Apley......To name but two.
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@zedvictor4
The first American to die of the Omicron variant was an unvaccinated Texas man who had previously caught COVID-19.
At the time the 60 year old died from Omicron, Biden had let in 2 million untested invaders to flood Texas in the hopes of killing Americans.
34,000 Americans under Biden's administration Died from Covid and variants while being fully vaccinated in 2021.
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@zedvictor4
"they" are simply the combined efforts of the worldwide governments and WHO funds combined with the democratic political machine and the pharmaceutical companies
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@Dr.Franklin
Successful people.
A typical resentment.
And then there are all the people who don't fit into your aforementioned categories.
Who don't agree with your political paranoia.
Or who might possess contrary political paranoia.
Of course, some might typically share your resentment of other peoples success.
But that's to be expected.
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@zedvictor4
"successful people". No, they are not successful zed
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@Dr.Franklin
Did you know Bill Gates increased his wealth by 1/3 during the scamdemic?