Build Back Dart Better, campaign announcement

Author: Wylted

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I am honored to be nominated for the office of presidency. I humbly accept the honor of representing all of Dart. My main opponent is rational madman and in his thread, many people asked him questions pertaining to his presidency. I want to address those concerns, so my campaign and his can be compared side by side.

I understand that these sorts of things can get heated and personal. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but I think it’s beneath me and rational madman. We’ll both be running very polite, issues focused campaigns. (I believe)

I want my supporters to know, that any nastiness seen coming from the other campaign is purely from some of RM’s more vocal supporters and not a reflection of him. He’ll make a great president should he win, and he should be supported, even if his policies should be opposed.

RM is mainly running a campaign to stop a lot of the hate seen on the site, and his opinion of the mods failing to do their jobs and negate those negative experiences for users. In his campaign thread he has made good points about if the mods were more pro active in confronting bad behavior such as harassment and bullying, than we could avoid some bans and have a more active user base. He’s right. I prefer them just sending some PM’s and perhaps things like the recent drama can which polytheist witch has been subjected to, can be avoided. His solution would be better enforced and more frequent restraining orders and I disagree with that approach and have seen sites where the mods are just standard bearers who remind others to be respectful, and it has worked well. I’d encourage more of that approach, but that is just a minor squabble with his plan.

I think RM, is well suited to do those things. He has a history of protecting and looking out for the downtrodden. He was probably put on the Earth by God to do that mission. I want to support him in that, when I win the presidency. I will put him in charge of an anti bullying campaign that will work on that problem, completely independent of me. He will contact the mods directly and be a liaison to them as well as the public.

If you like what RM will do for the downtrodden, than vote me. With me in office, he doesn’t have to split his attention to other things a president does either.

Where we differ is probably on the freedom of speech angle. RM believes that if most people find an opinion disgusting, they should have the freedom to stop people from giving you arguments in favor of that opinion. This is no mere political opinion. He wants to do that to DART. He doesn’t understand that when there is more debate it benefits all of us. Studies have been done showing that organizations do better, when they have dissenters in their ranks who freely express their opinions. This bears out, even when the dissenters are always wrong. If these studies are to be trusted, than RM is actively trying to make DART worse, in that regard. (not intentionally)

We need to think about precedent here as well. The precedent of removing an unpopular opinion is not the only precedent at stake here, although that one is likely the most important. If we put him in office, than we will have his behavior as a precedent of what the president should be. RM I don’t think is capable of being an advocate for the people here.

The only real power of the presidency is their ability to influence moderators. If we put an impotent person up there, that is how they will be perceived in the future and the ability of the office to accomplish anything, will be forever marred. I can tell you, I won’t be impotent. I have a good relationship with the current mods and some former ones who still are influential and I can use as liaisons in my steed. I think I can directly advocate on behalf of the community, but if not than I have resources who can. I have one mod who was relaying private mod conversations to me via screenshots, and showing me the progress of my unbanning. Another mod I have met in person. Ragnar messages me from time to time to show me his more light hearted side in response to my posts. Whiteflame I have had phone calls with and a lot of personal conversations, and has always shown respect for what I say, even when what I have said has been ignorant. I will not be an impotent president. I will be one with actual power and influence.

The most important benefit of electing me, is I will give you actual currency. Wylted Bucks are not a joke. I spent 12 hours this weekend watching tutorials and following along on creating NFTs (crypto-currency), I want to announce that I have created a debateart.com NFT that uses avatars from this site as well as other images. I won’t release wylted bucks unless elected though.
RationalMadman
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@Vader
@whiteflame
The most important benefit of electing me, is I will give you actual currency. Wylted Bucks are not a joke. I spent 12 hours this weekend watching tutorials and following along on creating NFTs (crypto-currency), I want to announce that I have created a debateart.com NFT that uses avatars from this site as well as other images. I won’t release wylted bucks unless elected though.
Is this actually allowed in a campaign?
RationalMadman
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I want my supporters to know, that any nastiness seen coming from the other campaign is purely from some of RM’s more vocal supporters and not a reflection of him. He’ll make a great president should he win, and he should be supported, even if his policies should be opposed.
Actually, it will be from your more vocal opposition, not from my vocal supporters unless they directly juxtapose me to you.
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I think RM, is well suited to do those things. He has a history of protecting and looking out for the downtrodden. He was probably put on the Earth by God to do that mission. I want to support him in that, when I win the presidency. I will put him in charge of an anti bullying campaign that will work on that problem, completely independent of me. He will contact the mods directly and be a liaison to them as well as the public.

If you like what RM will do for the downtrodden, than vote me. With me in office, he doesn’t have to split his attention to other things a president does either.
As opposed to a guy like yourself, right?

Shall we explore how you have reacted to the sensitive members of this website? You even challenged a user to a debate about the world and website being better off if she'd kill herself (it's since deleted but I have proof if I dig back to where it's discussed in a thread).
RationalMadman
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@Wylted
Are you capable of proving your ability to use discretion.  The ability to use discretion is important to a working relationship.  Let's say you earn whiteflames trust and he starts leaning heavy on you as an advocate for users he interacts with less than you. 

A lot of those conversations may be very private and ugly facts about users could come out that was only the privy of mods. Say whiteflame concludes a particular case of harassment is not harassment and the user should go unpunished. You guys fight hard over it and he basically says "fuck you, not banning the harasser " . Your only two options are

1. Drop your argument and let the harasser get away with it

Or

2. Air your personal grievances with whiteflame publicly and break his trust and ruin the relationship necessary for a working relationship.

Will you and can you be trusted to take option 1.

I know I have the ability to maintain that relationship with whiteflame and have previously proven it as I have interacted with him a lot off site and we have both told each other personal things, and both of us have seen each other never betray that trust.  Can whiteflame trust you like he trusts me, so a working relationship is possible?

Let me ask you this.
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@whiteflame
I know I have the ability to maintain that relationship with whiteflame and have previously proven it as I have interacted with him a lot off site and we have both told each other personal things, and both of us have seen each other never betray that trust.  Can whiteflame trust you like he trusts me, so a working relationship is possible?
Whiteflame, I am curious who you are backing for President. Is this fantastic relationship with Wylted indicative of where your vote will go?
Wylted
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@RationalMadman
Are you capable of proving your ability to use discretion.  The ability to use discretion is important to a working relationship.  Let's say you earn whiteflames trust and he starts leaning heavy on you as an advocate for users he interacts with less than you. 

A lot of those conversations may be very private and ugly facts about users could come out that was only the privy of mods. Say whiteflame concludes a particular case of harassment is not harassment and the user should go unpunished. You guys fight hard over it and he basically says "fuck you, not banning the harasser " . Your only two options are

1. Drop your argument and let the harasser get away with it

Or

2. Air your personal grievances with whiteflame publicly and break his trust and ruin the relationship necessary for a working relationship.

Will you and can you be trusted to take option 1.

I know I have the ability to maintain that relationship with whiteflame and have previously proven it as I have interacted with him a lot off site and we have both told each other personal things, and both of us have seen each other never betray that trust.  Can whiteflame trust you like he trusts me, so a working relationship is possible?

The answer is number 1, so I can do the most good in the long run, instead of shooting my load immediately and being left completely powerless to affect change
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@David
@Barney
@Vader
@whiteflame
The only real power of the presidency is their ability to influence moderators. If we put an impotent person up there, that is how they will be perceived in the future and the ability of the office to accomplish anything, will be forever marred. I can tell you, I won’t be impotent. I have a good relationship with the current mods and some former ones who still are influential and I can use as liaisons in my steed. I think I can directly advocate on behalf of the community, but if not than I have resources who can. I have one mod who was relaying private mod conversations to me via screenshots, and showing me the progress of my unbanning. Another mod I have met in person. Ragnar messages me from time to time to show me his more light hearted side in response to my posts. Whiteflame I have had phone calls with and a lot of personal conversations, and has always shown respect for what I say, even when what I have said has been ignorant. I will not be an impotent president. I will be one with actual power and influence.
I am just curious if you guys could elaborate for the rest of us on how great Wylted had a working relationship with you, compared to me, behind the scenes.
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@Wylted
The answer is number 1, so I can do the most good in the long run, instead of shooting my load immediately and being left completely powerless to affect change
To be clear, number 1 states that every single time that Whiteflame does something you deem unjust you do this:

Drop your argument and let the harasser get away with it
'harasser' can equal any variety of wrongdoer in the analogy you're using.
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@RationalMadman
Shall we explore how you have reacted to the sensitive members of this website? You even challenged a user to a debate about the world and website being better off if she'd kill herself (it's since deleted but I have proof if I dig back to where it's discussed in a thread).

You are mistaken. I would never advocate for suicide. I did debate that the world would be better off, if I killed myself.

I once killed a robber by accident. Seriously. His brakes were cut by riding over a fence in the truck he was in. He died by the truck cutting into my lane of traffic, and me having no ability to stop the car in time. He was in the bed of the truck and slowly died in front of my eyes.

Before that moment, I thought I would be okay with "bad guys" dying. This guy I killed was a career criminal. However his life had value. His family missed him and his death hurt a lot of people, including me.

You see, I believe every life is sacred. Even on debate.org I was a listening ear for a lot of people who claimed to be suicidal. I actually went to organizations and asked them how to talk to people suicidal, so I could know how to help. I used their advice and still use it.


One thing you do, is not directly disagree with suicidal people as mentioned by the experts. SO if a user said the world would be better off if she died, I wouldn't disagree. I might even say something like,

"You know, you are right" Then maybe pause and ask "But wouldn't you be hurting the people close to you, even if the world is better off?"

suicidal people often have thoughts in their head like "I am worthless"

The job of the person talking to them is not to tell them they are wrong, they are less likely to kill themselves if you just steer the conversation differently, while not overtly disagreeing with them.  I was actually a very frequent poster on reddit to suicidal people and would act edgy with them as well and try to help in ways approved of by professional psychologists specializing in suicide prevention.
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@Wylted
I'm not mistaken but I'll find the thread later.

It was actually such a significant issue because it led to her ruining one of the only ways DART was trying to succeed in Google, a review page, where she gave the site 1 star and wrote a very harsh review. This may have significantly impacted the website more than anything you can say I have done here.

I also would like you to come clean to everyone about your accounts here so then I can ask you about them, otherwise I can be accused of doxxing. I want people to be able to judge the full you on DART as with me they get that from my one account.

Wylted
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@RationalMadman
I can't remember the names of them all, but singularity wylted, I may have called one bringerofrain. Not sure of the other ones. List them out and If you are mistaken about one being mine, I will let you know.
Wylted
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I think I had one named tyrone also or something
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@Wylted
What are your thoughts on the current retraining order policy?


Wylted
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@ILikePie5
I wouldn't allow restraining orders. Best case scenario, give the option to no longer see posts from a user. ROs are stupid as well as too much work for the mods.

If the function is never added to block posts from being seen, than I would still oppose all restraining orders
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@Wylted
I would like to make a list of things that you may or may not have done on your accounts (I am saying you did but some on Tyrone got deleted due to how severe they were).

I would like you to first admit you did them, then whether or not you did them explain you view on someone who'd do it.

  • Blackface as a caucasian, not even as a tribute to any black ethnic culture but solely to make fun, laugh and ridicule the race.
  • Imitating a disabled person to then make a comment that disabled people shouldn't reproduce and that you're genetically inferior (I can link this if you deny it) over several posts.
  • Making a series of overtly racist threads and posts
  • Calling somebody you now say you like and pretend to respect as an opponent in an election an elliot rodger type personality that you can't stand.
  • Imitating another user (Zarroette or Analgesic.Spectre) and getting furious with Supadudz when it's revealed who you really are as he doesn't stand by allowing you to impersonate that person anymore on Discord (not just on DART) so much so that you sabotage an entire off-site political simuator community he's set up.
  • Encouraging people to assassinate politicians and calling Bsh1 and others cowards for not wanting to have such a live debate with you.
I am curious what your stances on these are.

badger
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Make Zarroette Female Again
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You know, it's really hard to believe Zarroette wasn't actually female. She was hung up on such female bullshit. 
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I think the presidential candidates should debate the likelihood of Zarroette's sex. 
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@badger
I still believe she was female, just that she had an image that wasn't her.
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Yeah she was definitely just very ugly. 
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@badger
I did not say this and cannot determine it, that's her business and irrelevant to what you asked.
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@Wylted
Would you like to debate over whether you should die or not? I'll take "Pro, you should die" I did forfeit the only two debates I started here, but I promise I won't forfeit that one

I encourage everybody to follow this thread. This is how you spot a chronic liar and viewpoint shifter caught in the act.

Just a few posts ago he denied this happened and said this:

You are mistaken. I would never advocate for suicide. I did debate that the world would be better off, if I killed myself.

Wylted
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@RationalMadman
I encourage everybody to follow this thread. This is how you spot a chronic liar and viewpoint shifter caught in the act.

Just a few posts ago he denied this happened and said this:
I didn't remember. You brought up a post from 3 years ago. The post was in bad taste, but clearly meant to be humorous.  She was in the op equating socialized healthcare to having the right to live. 

I wanted to challenge the notion of "right to live" and if the debate would have taken place, I would have used some antinatalist type argument. 

I was also interested in debating whether somebody has a "right" to live, but debates about the nature of rights are boring, and I remember her ideal of debate was to make bare assertions on rights. 

She was very concerned about mortality, and very young and immature and had been here under a few user names. On DDO she used to always attack people who she perceived slighted her, when she would repeat ad nauseum about how she was a pro life liberal. 
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@Wylted
It did take place, which then led to her screaming at bsh1 to delete it later on in that same thread.
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@Wylted
Is this how you approach emotional users, trigger them and relish in their anguish?
Wylted
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@RationalMadman
  • Blackface as a caucasian, not even as a tribute to any black ethnic culture but solely to make fun, laugh and ridicule the race.
There was a ferocious debate on the site at the time about whether the N word should be used. Thett mentioned they had a black friend they wanted to join the site, but was afraid that they would be persecuted for having a traditionally African American vernacular that used the n word a lot. The same sort of debate at the time was raging on Twitter because their N word filter caused mostly black people to be banned, and was removed because the filter was deemed racist.

  • Imitating a disabled person to then make a comment that disabled people shouldn't reproduce and that you're genetically inferior (I can link this if you deny it) over several posts.

In a thread espousing the ideals of incels and saying saying they had a few good points. I would say having genetic defects as I was claiming to hide my identity would make me genetically inferior to others. Hell I am short and that makes me genetically inferior to a tall person who is my equal In other ways. It isn't a controversial statement and does not speak to their value as a person


  • Making a series of overtly racist threads and posts
To prevent the creeping group think on the site and push to continue that slide by banning those who do not conform to it. 


  • Calling somebody you now say you like and pretend to respect as an opponent in an election an elliot rodger type personality that you can't stand.

Personality does not equal ethics. Having a similar personality as a mass murderer does not mean you are one or are capable of being one. My mom has a personality similar to caycee Anthony. Most the mods have the same type of uptight personality Ted bundy has. My brother acts similar to Hitler with his angry rants. There are probably a ton of great individuals who also share the same personality as well. 


  • Imitating another user (Zarroette or Analgesic.Spectre) and getting furious with Supadudz when it's revealed who you really are as he doesn't stand by allowing you to impersonate that person anymore on Discord (not just on DART) so much so that you sabotage an entire off-site political simuator community he's set up.
Not a big deal.


  • Encouraging people to assassinate politicians and calling Bsh1 and others cowards for not wanting to have such a live debate with you.

Hitler was a politician. Should he have been assassinated so 20 million lives could have been spared? If not, why do you support hitler?

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@RationalMadman
Is this how you approach emotional users, trigger them and relish in their anguish 

Emotional reactivity is bad. It often causes others to engage in behaviors harmful to themselves and others, the only way to build emotional resilience so you can be a happier person, is for people to refuse to handle you with kid gloves. 

For example if a fat person is called fat, it probably hurts for a while, but once you hear it 100 times, you stop giving a shit. 

Basically I was providing exposure therapy. If you have ever had a group of close male friends, you'd realize this type of bonding and building emotional resilience is normal. Anyone who doesn't insult me, is probably just not close enough to me to do it.
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@RationalMadman
My belief on moderating tends to lean more toward Wylted's perspective, but you have been more vocal with your contributions

That's all I will say on the matter
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@RationalMadman
There is no explicit rule about it and it is allowed as such. Politicians who run for office promise shit all the time and nothing happens.