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@ethang5
If fireboming japanese cities is a good thing then there would be no need to wait for a war to do it.
killing 100,000 people is a bad thing... it remains a bad thing even if not killing them would be worse.
There is no such thing as an Atheists.
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@keithprosser
Yes, morality is different than weighing good and evil. It should be noted though that the American perspective in the American civil war was more recent, (entire communities lost a generation at once) and the Japanese often fought visciously to the death. America made the outcome clear and offered reasonable terms of surrender. Today Japan is one of the vibrant countries in the world.
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@Stephen
I don't see a need to humor your non alien non Earthlings flew away non monotheist Bible story
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@keithprosser
yep
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@ethang5
Self defense is "protecting your family".Self defense. Japan attacked America first.
Not to mention that the US military has killed plenty of people who did not "attack first".
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@keithprosser
If fireboming japanese cities is a good thing then there would be no need to wait for a war to do it.killing 100,000 people is a bad thing... it remains a bad thing even if not killing them would be worse.
Well stated.
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@Plisken
By what measure was the war against Japan justifiable?The war against Japan was clearly justifiable.
Does that exact same measure apply to every other war/conflict that you believe is also justified?
Every time a Christian buys a gun they say, "it's to protect my family".Christians don't protect their family selfishly.
Christians love talking about what they would do to protect their family.
Perhaps you might explain further.
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@3RU7AL
A Christian slave seeks liberty so they might set their master free. How do you think Christians view self defense? Different people have their own reasons, and there is certainly nothing wrong with protecting your family.
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@Plisken
As I read history the US extended the war by demanding unconditional surrender.America made the outcome clear and offered reasonable terms of surrender.
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@Plisken
There are people here who would watch their daughters raped and murdered before defending them from horrible people. They are coward scum bags who deserve whatever afterlife they get.
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@keithprosser
100% true fact.As I read history the US extended the war by demanding unconditional surrender.
If fireboming japanese cities is a good thing then there would be no need to wait for a war to do it.
What if it is the condition of war that makes it moral?
Aren't you the one who says there is no such thing as objective morality? Please stop this dishonest way of debating. So is killing 100,000 people objectively immoral or not?
If your argument encapsulates arguments on either side, how can that be honest?
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@keithprosser
That's a speculative theory in American policy, and WWII history. Indeed, the Japanese were willing to fight till the conclusion of the war, which could theoretically have included further negotiations. I'd like to discuss the terms of surrender for their political merit when it inevitably comes up again some day but hopefully not as an armchair critic.
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@3RU7AL
Self defense. Japan attacked America first.
Self defense is "protecting your family".
Only sometimes.
Not to mention that the US military has killed plenty of people who did not "attack first".
So? Did you ask me or ask the US Military? You asked about a specific event. Your thinking is disjointed.
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@Plisken
That's a speculative theory in American policy, and WWII history. Indeed, the Japanese were willing to fight till the conclusion of the war. I'd like to discuss the terms of surrender for their political merit when it inevitably comes up again some day but hopefully not as an armchair critic.
It was enough of an effort by the Japanese that it is my belief that there could have been, in fact, a surrender negotiated at the end of 1944-beginning of 1945. There were, however, 2 main obstacles which prevented it:
1) The Allies (mostly U.S.) insisted on unconditional surrender. That meant that the Emperor could have been forced to step down and worse, be subject to a trial for war crimes and possible death. There was no way the Japanese would go for this. And,
2) Revenge. Pearl Harbor was 100 times more shocking to the U.S. than 9/11. The 'Japs' were going to pay, one way or another. Many people wanted to exact our revenge on the battlefield- not in negotiations.
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@ethang5
Self defense is "protecting your family".Only sometimes.
Self defense must always include "self" and for most people that also includes "family".
Are you suggesting that "self defense" means something else? Please explain.
So? Did you ask me or ask the US Military? You asked about a specific event.
I'm asking if your justification of this particular event is capricious or based on some identifiable principle.
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@3RU7AL
Yeah, it's so emotional on both sides and political. This is also the 2ND world war. There was no way in hell that empire would be allowed to exist ever again.
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@3RU7AL
Self defense is "protecting your family".
Only sometimes.
Self defense must always include "self" and for most people that also includes "family".
Only sometimes.
Are you suggesting that "self defense" means something else?
Only sometimes.
Please explain.
Sometimes self defense means something other than family, like country.
So? Did you ask me or ask the US Military? You asked about a specific event.
I'm asking if your justification of this particular event is capricious or based on some identifiable principle.
And I told you. Self defense. Please buy a clue.
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@Grugore
Here's the way I see it. Atheists don't want God to exist the same way criminals don't want cops to exist. They know that God exists, but they suppress the truth. It's because they also know that they are sinners and deserve death. They know that Jesus gave His life so we could avoid death. But these people love their sin more than their Creator. Also, the Bible tells us that many witnessed the miracles of Christ and still rejected Him. So, it's not a matter of belief. It's a matter of obedience. There is no such thing as an atheist. Not my opinion. This is what Scripture tells us.
Here's the way I see it. Theists want god to exist the same way children want the tooth fairy to exist. They know that god doesn't exist, but they suppress the truth. It's because they also know that they are credulous and deserve to know what is real. They know that we cannot avoid death. But these people love their credulity more than their analytical brain. Also, the Bible tells us lies about reality yet they still accept it. So it's not a matter of faith, it's a matter of critical thinking. There is such a thing as an atheist. In my opinion. This is what logic tells us.
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@MagicAintReal
Well stated.Here's the way I see it. Theists want god to exist the same way children want the tooth fairy to exist. They know that god doesn't exist, but they suppress the truth. It's because they also know that they are credulous and deserve to know what is real. They know that we cannot avoid death. But these people love their credulity more than their analytical brain. Also, the Bible tells us lies about reality yet they still accept it. So it's not a matter of faith, it's a matter of critical thinking. There is such a thing as an atheist. In my opinion. This is what logic tells us.
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@3RU7AL
Hopefully it lends to some humility
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@3RU7AL
Did you get that I was also mocking his post verbatim?
Or was that lost in my condescension towards him?
Or was that lost in my condescension towards him?
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@MagicAintReal
I found it an enjoyable read.
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@MagicAintReal
Did you get that I was also mocking his post verbatim?Or was that lost in my condescension towards him?
It's good enough to stand on its own.
But yes, I did notice the mirrored structure.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I don't see a need to humor your non alien non Earthlings flew away non monotheist Bible story
I didn't ask you to, poly. I asked you to tell me where you believe these gods that you believe in, exist. You have said they didn't ever exist on Earth. So where do or did they exist?
Do you see how you have shot yourself in that big mouth of yours. Here's' a quick recap. You make a statement saying:
Atheist definitely don't think gods exist.
I said, I do. But left the earth.
You then say:
they never existed on the earth
And I ask you wher then did they exist, AND YOU CANNOT ANSWER!!! NOW THAT IS STUPID!
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@MagicAintReal
Brutal is being modest...he did it himself in post #21 https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/775/post_links/34438.
As it says in the best book in the Bible,
"What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun."
Ecclesiastes 1:9 (NIV)
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@Stephen
An atheists who believe in aliens. Good for you.
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@3RU7AL
Actually, Japan extended the war by refusing. They knew they were defeated, but they decided to fight onn. Which is why we had to nuke them. Any other course of action would have killed many more people.
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@3RU7AL
Imitation is the cincerist form of flatery.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Your still avoiding the question that arose from your own statement ,poly.
Your pretty good at firing off that mouth of yours but when put on a spot , and asked to explain yourself, you sleek away only to come back with nonsense that you believe someone has said.
Do you see how you have shot yourself in that big mouth of yours. Here's' a quick recap. You make a statement saying:
Polytheist-Witch; Atheist definitely don't think gods exist.
I said, I do. But left the earth.
You then say:
Polytheist-Witch; they never existed on the earth
And I ask you, where then did they exist, AND YOU CANNOT ANSWER!!! NOW THAT IS STUPID!