"Open Your Eyes"

Author: Danielle

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Liberals "denying reality" is a really popular talking point of the right. The left supposedly can't define what a woman is, can't define what a recession is, etc. Now of course those are unintelligibly exaggerated strawmen; acknowledging that trans women exist or that high wages coupled with low unemployment should be factored into analyzing the economic state as a whole is not denying reality so much as taking more variables into consideration when pressed to answer something for political gotcha soundbites. 

But I think we can all agree that declaring elections to be fraudulent and rigged with no evidence whatsoever is an example of denying reality in a pretty blatant way. However this is something people on the right are apparently comfortable with as a political strategy. For instance, AZ gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake cried foul at the election results in her state. Then she started winning. Once she took the lead and it became clear she would win the race, the insanely pathetic response from her camp was “We out-voted the fraud, we didn’t listen to what the fake news had to say.” When asked to substantiate those claims of fraud, Lake told the press that she didn’t “expect to turn you guys around,” and called them a “lost cause.” 

Obviously this position is completely and utterly illogical: the idea that there was clear  and massive fraud while at the same time having legitimate results in her favor makes no sense, but Republican voters just don't seem to care. They simply do not give a shit that politicians on their team are so brazenly and pathologically desperate for power that they will go as far as denying reality and straight up spit in the face of voters - just straight up mock their intelligence with bald-faced lies and explanations like this but it's like "haha, whatevs, Dems are just trying to distract from inflation." Hmm. 

I bring this up because what happens if this starts becoming a really popular and widespread tactic used not just by Trump and his cult of minions, but all over the world such as we've seen with Jair Bolsonaro recently in Brazil? What if Democrats started doing it? (Pointing out disinformation campaigns to influence elections doesn't count.) I mean I know denying election results is nothing new; it happens in third world countries all the time. What I'm asking is what if U.S. voters continue to legitimize or simply ignore and disregard the nonexistent claims of fraud though? Are we watering down the accusation to the point where it means nothing, and if so couldn't that be dangerous? 

With all of the Alex Jones stuff in the news again recently I've been thinking about how this man and others make massive profits in the conspiracy theory business. During the middle of Jones' trial with Sandy Hook parents recently, he couldn't help but go on his show and mock the trial's legitimacy, mock the jury's intelligence and suggest the judge + outcome were all predetermined plants, etc. I thought to myself is this guy friggin insane? Why the hell would he do that knowing it would play so horribly in court? And then I realized DUH, because it's more profitable for him to keep his conspiracy customers brainwashed. Who cares if he has to pay ~50 million in damages? (Hopefully more with additional lawsuits.) He's  worth upward of 200 million, and perpetuating these lies without backing down ensures his conspiracy cash cow keeps producing. So there's no incentive for Alex Jones to give any relief to the grieving families he's tortured and lied about; there's no reason for him to back down, admit the truth and stop manipulating people.

This brings me to what I feel like is a really scary state of the world. There has always been government secrecy, there has always been bias in the press, but we seem to be in unprecedented territory as far as the widespread popularity of conspiracies, at least post Information Age. It's not just about fringe topics anymore or things we can't easily substantiate such as the moon landing or some dumb ass story about Bill Gates committing genocide in third world countries. People don't accept anything these days. A school could be shot up with a bunch of kids dying, it could be filmed, there could be witnesses, there could be a physical location where you go and see the damage right in front of your eyes - yet tens of millions of people are simply like "NOPE! FAKE!" because charismatic people like Trump and Alex Jones say so. 

Isn't this a bit more problematic than Democrats mincing words about what a "recession" is? Isn't this a bit more consequential than someone insisting they are male when they were born with a vagina? How would it affect anybody else's day or anyone else's life if I were to decide that I want to go by the name Daniel and cut off my tits? Who would I be hurting? Alex Jones is actually hurting people. Election deniers are actively brainwashing people solely and specifically to bolster their own popularity and power.

I wonder if/when this will ever be considered a big deal by conservatives, and if not, why not? If they don't mind lack of evidence for election fraud then why demand more proof of climate change? I feel like having faith in institutions such as the FBI or New York Times, which is biased AF but includes redactions and corrections vs. people in the media like Alex Jones that straight up disregard the facts and with whom there is zero expectation of substantial evidence or accountability is a bit different. 

What if heavily armed minority groups or militias refuse to accept the results of the next election? Theoretically everyone who believes the election was actually stolen from Trump should be shooting members of Congress and killing them (like they wanted to do on January 6) since the whole point of the 2A is to fight against that kind of tyranny. I think the fact nobody is really doing that and the Oath Keepers et. al. have backed down says quite a bit. But what does it say about the U.S. generally if citizens become comfortable accepting lies about how elections are rigged before they even occur and regardless of what the outcomes are?

I feel like the fact that candidates are still beholden to the rich, still spend billions on campaigns, still try their hardest to gerrymander in their favor and Republicans go out of their way to make it more difficult for minorities to vote  proves that voting is still pretty important. But who cares about facts like that when we can just say "it's rigged!" and move on like rigged elections are NBD and to be expected? Who cares about facts when they can just be ignored and denied? I feel like everyone should just deny anything they don't like for funsies. The next time someone tells me gas is expensive I'm just going to call them names and swear to god they're lying because I only pay $2 a gallon. How can they prove me wrong? With a receipt? Yeah okay, as if hackers can't manipulate receipts. Open your eyes...


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Alex Jones is a scapegoat, a sucker set up by the Illuminati for many years to be a dimwit scapegoat fir the far right and mouthpiece to say things the Right Wing do not wish to themselves.

He later was turned on entirely because both wings got fed up of him as it seems he backfired, he actually made the right wing look too ridiculous with his lizard people talk etc.

He had those texts planted and leaked, he knows nobody will believe it. Believe what you want  his lawyers leaking it was a move on behalf of the elite.
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Isn't this a bit more problematic than Democrats mincing words about what a "recession" is? 
Absolutely not. We are still going through another 2 years of a power grab by DC and their lobbyists for a continued massive wealth transfer based on the lie that "it's in our own best interests." Denying what they are doing gives them the authority to continue to do this for another 2 years.

If the administration came out today and said we are in a recession, how do you think the public would react to a massive tax hike on GDP investment?

Probably not well I would imagine. 
Greyparrot
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What if heavily armed minority groups or militias refuse to accept the results of the next election?
Then hopefully Pelosi's replacement will use the National Guard. Also hopefully the DC cops that let people in are no longer working in the capitol.
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But what does it say about the U.S. generally if citizens become comfortable accepting lies about how elections are rigged before they even occur and regardless of what the outcomes are?

It says people have lost confidence in the government to work fairly.

That kind of sentiment is far more dangerous to politicians than the people.
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@Danielle
This dynamic drives my reasoning for making CONSPIRACY THEORIES a separate category from politics or current events. 

I think you make a mistake to use the label conservative to define the Republican Party.  Those few sincere Conservatives remaining in the Republican Party are in agreement with your concern- Liz Cheney, Mitt Romney, for example).  The genius of Cambridge Analytica's use of Facebook to promote Cruz and Trump in 2015 and 2016 was that it didn't approach people by political affiliation but sent out feelers looking for positive responses to obvious disinformation, conspiracy theories, and racist points of views and then targeted and synthesized those tendencies with increasingly less subtle suggestions that voting for Trump was an expression of solidarity with all those wide-ranging even ideologically inconsistent radicalisms.  

Republican's recent treatment of Rusty Bowers is illustrative.  Bowers is a traditionally Conservative Republican- a deeply Christian rancher and construction worker, a reluctant politician who ends up leading the AZ House of Representatives.  Ideologically, he has never strayed from the Republican Party but his Christianity prevented him promoting Trump's lie.  For that infraction alone, the refusal to kowtow to a single autocratic personality, Bower is censured and tossed out AZ politics (to his great relief, apparently).  Trump doesn't just reject Conservatism, he is actively purging the honest Conservatives from the Party.  The Republican Party is increasingly defining themselves as, first and foremost, adherents to a single man's lies.
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@Danielle
What I'm asking is what if U.S. voters continue to legitimize or simply ignore and disregard the nonexistent claims of fraud though? Are we watering down the accusation to the point where it means nothing, and if so couldn't that be dangerous? 

Yes. Very. 

People will follow what is normal and acceptable in their group. When their group doesn’t really believe in the validity of any election in which they do not win, any narrative in which the democrats are not the villains; if this is normal and acceptable - someone is going to say or do something a little abnormal or a little unacceptable. If no one challenges it, the the mile marker of acceptability is dragged a little bit more to the extreme. 

For example, police violence against protesters, unmarked federal officers pulling individuals off the streets, armed men taking to the streets and shooting protesters, tear-gassing - etc - if your group cheers when this happens, if you celebrate the police who do it; and you all believe that people critical of your leaders are out to destroy the country - then it drags the level of acceptability to the extreme to the point where it may not be unrealistic to expect that such people would cheer of protesters were run over, shot, teargassed or dispersed - for being critical of the government.

yet tens of millions of people are simply like "NOPE! FAKE!" because charismatic people like Trump and Alex Jones say so. 

It’s far more pervasive than that: the inner core of Trump support - the QAnon crazies, and the core die hards have been systematically trained in how to maintain beliefs.

They have been trained, online, through their media, their politicians that when confronted with contrary information - to find a reason for that piece of data that can be ignored. It’s a cult like parroting some specific mantra to reject anything.

Conspiratorial thinking is actually a symptom of a way of interpreting evidence - generally speaking - it’s when people have a belief or narrative - and look for any evidence that is consistent with that narrative in order to validate it. When you do that, you will descend into conspiracies given the right push - because there is no attempt to determine whether that evidence is consistent with other things, or weighing inconsistent data. 

Both elements allow people to literally justify belief in anything; so all that is required is to be caught up in a crowd.

Religion plays a big role in this - imo - as this way of thinking is literally hammered into evangelical Christian kids from a young age. Look how creationism debates and conversation were THE most common religious topic of discussion prior to 2015 and literally ended overnight the moment Trump entered the scene. That’s not a coincidence.

Isn't this a bit more problematic than Democrats mincing words about what a "recession" is?

Of course it is. Provides that you’re not in the group for which the democrats are doing everything for the purpose of destroying the country. The problem with the regular political discourse is that the democrats are still acting in the normal window of political behaviour from 20 years ago. A few lies maybe, some policy, maybe a few shady deals - but nothing out of the ordinary - and are making the political arguments as if the republicans are too, because that’s all they really know. But the republicans have largely gone to crazy town - they’re just exploiting peoples anger offering no solutions other than “don’t let the democrats win”. When your political platform is “we must win at all costs and we’ll, you know, do stuff to make America great” it’s indicative that power is the sole goal.

What if heavily armed minority groups or militias refuse to accept the results of the next election?

I think you’re looking at the wrong place. Russia has elections. Most highly authoritarian regimes have elections. If American is going to turn into autocracy - it will be within stretched constitutional parameters. Various laws for entrenching political advantage, laws that limit voting rights or ability; vast Gerrymanders; take overs of electoral machinery, takeover of the judiciary, voter intimidation; winning close elections and using the resulting power to constrain opposing thought and control education and then make opposition illegal. As long as enough people cheer it on - which they will - it’s the inevitable conclusion of the constant shift to ever more extreme benchmarks of normal.
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@Danielle
"Trump's minion cult" made me laugh. Amazing joke. Outside of that, everything you said rang true for me. Alex Jones is a man with a horrible moral compass and an evidently deranged mind. I refuse to believe he's simply a manipulator who doesn't believe his own words, as no one with any sense of normative moral code would platform and profess the ideas he does as if they're true unless a part of them believes what they say.
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@Danielle
Oh, the Left denies reality in more substantive ways than you give it credit. “Acknowledging trans women exist”? To my knowledge, no one denies that trans women exist. The reality denial is claiming that transgenders are 100% the gender they claim to be, and that such claims are beyond question. “Yes, there ARE men who can get pregnant!” “Yes, there ARE women who have a penis!” Such a platform sows confusion and chaos in a society, which weakens it. This is precisely why Russia is continually attempting to do just that (sow confusion and chaos in the US in order to weaken it). And when the Left thinks that the bulk of society will be ok with the government indoctrinating its citizenry’s children in such controversial ideology, it is again denying reality… and losing elections.

The Left denies reality when it enacts largely demand side economic policies such as the American Rescue Plan when both supply and demand have been externally restrained via pandemic era policies. Supporting demand that merely needed to be unleashed, while simultaneously in a period of low supply, leads to runaway inflation. How anyone who should have known better could claim it was “merely transitory” is beyond me… more like “the perfect storm.”

The Left denies reality as it attempts to transition completely to green energy. The capacity simply isn’t there yet. Meanwhile, this causes “green” nations to import ever more unclean energy from other oil producing nations, some of which make for strange, if not dangerous bedfellows, as the world is witnessing with Russia’s oil resources. It merely reveals itself as a NIMBY stance. In various ways, it causes unintended consequences which undermine its very goal and threatens the security of the various nations which fully subscribe to it.

The Left denies reality when it pushes the idea that law enforcement is the primary threat to the safety of black people. This has inevitably led to the demonization of police, followed by less police, followed by an increase in violent crime, which has led to an increase in fatalities in black communities.

The Left denies reality when it pushes the efficacy of lockdowns, school closures, and vaccine mandates, all while exhorting us to “follow the science” while lacking the supporting data. Rahm Emmanuel once said, “Don’t let a good crisis go to waste.” Well, much of the population is getting the idea that the Left has been exploiting the COVID crisis to expand its power.

As for the rise in public distrust and conspiracy thinking, this is the inevitable outcome when influential institutions such as academia, healthcare, media, multinational corporations, FBI, CIA, DOJ, IRS become more and more politically activist, polarized, and weaponized. The command “stay in your lane” comes to mind…

None of these things lead to good outcomes.

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@cristo71
 more like “the perfect storm.”
A storm describes a natural accident. Covid lockdowns were deliberate.

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Everybody sees what they want to see and believes what they want to believe. Only rarely do you get a truly honest and clear minded person capable of calmly and rationally assessing issues, such as myself…just kidding 

What I never understand is what makes people choose what they want to see/believe in the first place. In some cases it’s obvious (like a fracking worker voting Republican or a teacher voting democrat) but what about the actual swing voters, what makes THOSE guys click 
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@Danielle
RCV FTW
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@Greyparrot
With the Inflation Reduction Act, the perfect storm just got… perfecter.
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@Danielle
What if Democrats started doing it? (Pointing out disinformation campaigns to influence elections doesn't count.)
Biden says elections might not be legitimate if reform bills aren’t passed [**]
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@cristo71
With the Inflation Reduction Act, the perfect storm just got… perfecter.
Taxes on capital investments in the apex of a full blown recession is going to be one hell of a ride for sure.
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@Danielle
To what do you intend for people to "open their eyes"? To Republicans giving carte blanche to any prospective political candidate to cry, "conspiracy," when things don't go their way?  Or the political tribalism indulged endlessly by Democrats and Republicans? "What if Democrats started doing it?" I remember this little election in 2000 where Democrats "cried conspiracy" because Al Gore wasn't elected. Are you kidding? Democrats have been doing it. For eight years straight, this party complained about how that election was stolen from Gore. Liberal talking heads and pundits even accused Ralph Nader of siphoning votes and ruining Gore's campaign bid. This was the same party that wanted Joe Lieberman to drop out of the 2004 race in fear that he would ruin John Kerry's campaign bid. This is the same party that blames Bernie Sanders for ruining Hillary's bid.

There's only one truth to which the populace at large needs to open their eyes: POLITICIANS ARE DEMAGOGUES; THEY'RE ATTENTION WHORES; THEY WILL EXPLOIT ANY SENSIBILITY, ANY FAD, ANY CAUSE FOR THE MOMENT, WHETHER THEY NAME THEMSELVES "DEMOCRAT" OR "REPUBLICAN." This is nothing new. It's only receiving more attention because of the scope of social media.
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@Greyparrot
If the administration came out today and said we are in a recession, how do you think the public would react to a massive tax hike on GDP investment?
If your point is that "everyone knows we are in a recession despite what the administration says" then why does it matter if admin say we are in a recession or not? 


If the administration came out today and said we are in a recession, how do you think the public would react to a massive tax hike on GDP investment?
I think it's quite obvious how people would react to public investments: liberals will cheer for it and conservatives will bitch about it even though the majority of them hardly pay taxes. 

Although conservatives certainly don't mind government subsidies in the industries they work for so who knows. 


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@Greyparrot
Then hopefully Pelosi's replacement will use the National Guard. Also hopefully the DC cops that let people in are no longer working in the capitol.
Pelosi's future replacement, Adam Schiff, is a weenie but he probably would use the National Guard. I also hope those DC cops were fired but we both know that politicians can't stop sucking police union dick so probably not. They've likely been promoted. 
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@Greyparrot
It says people have lost confidence in the government to work fairly.
Maybe they should take a knee.


That kind of sentiment is far more dangerous to politicians than the people.
It's not dangerous to politicians whose entire campaign strategy was to run on the premise that elections are rigged lol. A fiction writer couldn't come up with how stupid their voters are. 

Danielle
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the actual swing voters, what makes THOSE guys click 
Just a vibe check.  


Danielle
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@3RU7AL
Ranked Choice Voting?
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@Athias
Next to your bizarro claims about Lucifer that was hands down the dumbest post you've ever made. Complaining about how politicians "split the vote" between members of their party, or lamenting a court decision about a single state's role in re-counting votes (many of which could not be interpreted or were mis-cast due to the "butterfly ballot") is not remotely analogous to lies about how the entire voting process AND the entire judicial system as a whole is a predetermined, rigged sham. 

Lamenting that Bernie ran against Hillary or Liberman against Kerry  is not anywhere near the same thing as amplifying and perpetuating bullshit and uncorroborated stories about stolen ballots, rigged voting machines and deep state conspiracies that use fake judges and crisis actors to conspire against candidates and fabricate school shootings so the lizard people feds can steal your guns. I get that you don't like government but it doesn't excuse such bad false equivalences. 
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@cristo71
The Left denies reality as it attempts to transition completely to green energy. The capacity simply isn’t there yet. 

Do you know what the word "transition" means?
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@Danielle
Ranked Choice Voting?
exactly
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@Danielle
“The Left denies reality as it attempts to transition completely to green energy. The capacity simply isn’t there yet.”

Do you know what the word "transition" means?
Yes.

I believe you know what “Meanwhile, this causes “green” nations to import ever more unclean energy from other oil producing nations, some of which make for strange, if not dangerous bedfellows, as the world is witnessing with Russia’s oil resources. It merely reveals itself as a NIMBY stance. In various ways, it causes unintended consequences which undermine its very goal and threatens the security of the various nations which fully subscribe to it” means, so I will refrain from insulting your intelligence in kind…

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@Danielle
It's not dangerous to politicians whose entire campaign strategy was to run on the premise that elections are rigged lol. A fiction writer couldn't come up with how stupid their voters are. 

I dunno, seems like  death threats on politicians are on the rise in both parties.

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@Danielle
Next to your bizarro claims about Lucifer
What's bizarre about them?

that was hands dow n the dumbest post you've ever made.
My "dumbest" post is still better than most.

Complaining about how politicians "split the vote" between members of their party, or lamenting a court decision about a single state's role in re-counting votes (many of which could not be interpreted or were mis-cast due to the "butterfly ballot") is not remotely analogous to lies about how the entire voting process AND the entire judicial system as a whole is a predetermined, rigged sham. 
The entire voting process and judicial system IS a predetermined, rigged sham. 

Lamenting that Bernie ran against Hillary or Liberman against Kerry  is not anywhere near the same thing as amplifying and perpetuating bullshit and uncorroborated stories about stolen ballots, rigged voting machines and deep state conspiracies that use fake judges and crisis actors to conspire against candidates and fabricate school shootings so the lizard people feds can steal your guns.
Apples and oranges.

I get that you don't like government
You don't get a thing. I reject government per moral principle. My disliking it is irrelevant.

but it doesn't excuse such bad false equivalences. 
What's the false equivalence? The only difference is your interpretation of the events. I was well into my young adulthood during the 2000 election and I remember well the talking points pedaled by Democrats. One such point would be the accusation that Jeb Bush (George W. Bush's brother) who was the governor of Florida at the time, somehow influenced the court decisions in favor of his brother.

You're not opening up anyone's eyes, Danielle. You're just pedaling the arguments of partisan hacks.
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@Athias
the accusation that Jeb Bush (George W. Bush's brother) who was the governor of Florida at the time, somehow influenced the court decisions in favor of his brother.
don't forget katherine harris
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@3RU7AL
don't forget katherine harris
Exactly. It's ridiculous that one would argue that Democrats are somehow excluded from the election "pageantry" and the consequential fallout (conspiracy, claims or rigged voting, etc.) from disgruntled politicians and their base.
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@Athias
I was well into my young adulthood during the 2000 election and I remember well the talking points pedaled by Democrats. One such point would be the accusation that Jeb Bush (George W. Bush's brother) who was the governor of Florida at the time, somehow influenced the court decisions in favor of his brother.
I don't know what's more embarrassing: the fact that you're an adult who  believes in mythological creatures or the fact that you actually think this is remotely analogous to anything I talked about in the OP.  

Are you old enough to remember Al Gore's concession speech and him presiding over the Senate certification of his own loss? 


The entire voting process and judicial system IS a predetermined, rigged sham. 
Oh no! Maybe you should go take it up with the tooth fairy. 

If the entire voting process is a predetermined and rigged sham, then #1Donald Trump's victory was also a rigged sham so he was not a genuine victor and has no business declaring himself as such in 2016 or otherwise; #2 it makes no sense for Donald and co. to run for office (again) and beg people to show up and vote since they're telling people their votes don't matter. If you accept these logical conclusions then you accept that trumptards are being nonsensical in their positions. I don't understand why you felt the need tp respond with such pathetically desperate and ridiculously far off whataboutism  rather than your usual regurgitations about the illegitimacy of government or immorality of voting generally. I never said Democrats don't engage in political nonsense; I said that preemptive accusations of fraud and rejecting evidence or basic facts across the board (or the head-scratching act of someone not rescinding accusations of voter fraud post victory) is more concerning than manipulative rhetoric about how politicians define or spin words like recession.

Again if voting doesn't matter it begs the question of why politicians prostitute themselves for campaign donations, why they gerrymander like crazy and why they try to make it less convenient for certain people to vote. It begs the question of why anyone gets summoned to jury duty among lots of other questions (many of which I outlined in the OP) that your false equivalences don't come anywhere close to answering.

You'd think that arguments from partisan hacks would be easy to discredit, but yet here you are desperately reaching to convince yourself that speculating or  pouting over Jeb Bush for a few weeks (conveniently ignoring all of the absolutely legitimate issues with unclear and miscast ballots) is somehow the same as insisting thousands of people at every level of government and beyond conspired  to rig an election and/or stage school shootings + terrorist events because of a deep state run by nefarious reptiles and Jews.  Tsk tsk. 


You're not opening up anyone's eyes, Danielle. 
Lol. The title of the thread is called "Open Your Eyes" because I'm mocking conspiracy theorists who use the term. That's why it's in quotes. Obviously.