What do you believe and why?

Author: secularmerlin ,

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  • secularmerlin
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    --> @janesix
    That doesn't sound very nice. How did this hypothetical god go about showing you all this?
  • janesix
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    --> @secularmerlin
    He put me into a different state of consciousness, which lasted eight hours. I am grateful for my experience. it wasn't malicious. 
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @janesix
    A different state of conciousness. Different how?
  • janesix
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    --> @secularmerlin
    There is no way to describe it. How do you describe a state of consciousness?
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @janesix
    I'm honestly not sure how unless we have both experienced a similar brain state. Why so you think what you did was wrong? Wrong by what standard?
  • janesix
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    --> @secularmerlin
    I had feelings of guilt and regret. So my own I would guess.
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @janesix
    If it was your personal morality why did you need a god to show you?
  • janesix
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    --> @secularmerlin
    I don't know. To bring it out in the open maybe. I am only guessing. So I can do my shadow work.
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @janesix
    Do you feel that this god had the same moral standards that you do?
  • janesix
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    --> @secularmerlin
    Probably. 
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @secularmerlin
    I suppose we can't but here, they are satire or done to deceive. 
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    I do agree that many religions were created specifically to deceive and or control people. This would be equally true of religions inspired or created by actual gods unless it was not the intention of the god in question to control or deceive. I think satire religions may be an exception however. It's hard to claim they are trying to deceive if they are obvious about the fact that their religion is nonsense.
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @janesix
    You aren't sure but you think so?
  • janesix
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    --> @secularmerlin
    I'm not sure about anything. But I beleive that morals are universal, and come from God ultimately
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @janesix
    Then why do human morals evolve and change based on the whims of a society? Indeed why do so many people throughout history who claim that their morals come directly from a god disagree about what is and is not moral?

    Do you feel that your societies laws are more or less moral than the laws of theocracies from the past? For example the laws of Spain between, I don't know, let's say between 1478 and 1834.

  • janesix
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    --> @secularmerlin
    "Then why do human morals evolve and change based on the whims of a society? "

    >>Because humans are immoral. They chose to make thier own rules that goes against true morals. 

    "Indeed why do so many people throughout history who claim that their morals come directly from a god disagree about what is and is not moral?"

    >>Same as above. 

    "Do you feel that your societies laws are more or less moral than the laws of theocracies from the past? For example the laws of Spain between, I don't know, let's say between 1478 and 1834."

    >> I don't know wha the laws of spain were back then. As for todays American values, there is both good and bad. Good as in no slavery etc, bad as in abortion is OK and legal. 
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @janesix
    Janesix: Because humans are immoral. They chose to make thier own rules that goes against true morals.

    Then how do we determine what is moral? Is it moral to abdicate one's moral judgement to another being no matter how perfect?

    Janesix: I don't know wha the laws of spain were back then. As for todays American values, there is both good and bad. Good as in no slavery etc, bad as in abortion is OK and legal.

    You believe that both slavery and abortion are wrong. This is what do you believe and why. What objectively makes them wrong? Do you just "feel" that they are wrong?

    Don't get me wrong I feel that slavery is wrong too but that is entirely subjective to the fact that as a potential slave (Which all humans are technically if we are to recognize what slavery is) it is in my best interest to foster a society in which there is no slavery. Altruism equals survival of our species so we exhibit altruism.

    Same for selfish or cruel behavior. Under the right circumstances these may also constitute survival behaviors but only for the individual. So we exhibit these behaviors as well but they are less conducive to a cooperative society and so frowned upon.

    Are we including the ownership of animals under the heading of slavery? Why or why not?

    PS just wanted to say I love talking to you glad we both found the site.


  • Terran
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    I believe I am the man of prophecy. Why? Because of extensive evidence beyond reasonable doubt. I started a thread on the matter with links to the evidence and story. I am open to being proven wrong. I have engaged in debate all over the internet, and not a single legitimate argument exists to contend with me. Do you have what it takes to either refute me or concede that I am the man of prophecy beyond reasonable doubt?

    I am not so concerned with what a person believes, but why they believe it. It is better to believe in the wrong things for the right reasons, than to believe in the right things for the wrong reasons. False beliefs are easily fixed. False motives are not.
  • janesix
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    --> @secularmerlin
    >>We are given the gift of conscience by God. That's how we can try to determine right from wrong. I think this is the main reason why we are here. God wanted to create others, and he gave us a moral compass to help us in determining write and wrong. It isn't black and white,at least to us. It may be to God. 

    Are we including the ownership of animals under the heading of slavery? Why or why not?

    >>Maybe, I haven't thought that much about it. My gut instinct is that it is wrong. For instance I feel a bit guilty about keeping my dog in the house when I know she would rather roam free. And I'm not sure about eating animals. I have a gut feeling that is wrong as well. 

    PS just wanted to say I love talking to you glad we both found the site.

    >> me too. it's nice to keep the old ddo gang together
  • Castin
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    I'm an agnostic atheist. I identify with doubt more than I will ever identify with certainty. I even doubt my atheism at times. When I'm alone in a quiet place, I tend to become someone who's not sure what to believe, someone less confident and more thoughtful. What should be taken from this life? Which lighthouses should I sail by? What should I believe in? What the hell am I supposed to do about the seemingly unkillable existential questions that assail the human experience? How do I cope with suffering, or fend off the creeping encroachment of nihilism?

    All I've nailed down is, a) we all come up with different answers to these questions, b) there is no one right answer to any of these questions, and c) the answers we come up with are subjectively projected, not objectively discovered. Oh, and also d) humor and love are the best general analgesics.
  • keithprosser
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    --> @janesix
    i don't agree that conscience is a gift from any god.  We have a moral sense that let us dististinguish between good and bad,  just as we have senses that let us distinguish between hot and cold, or between light and heavy.
  • janesix
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    --> @keithprosser
    I don't doubt you don't agree.

    How did our conscience "evolve"?
  • keithprosser
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    The same way everything else evolved
  • keithprosser
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    --> @janesix
    The same way everything else evolved
  • janesix
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    --> @keithprosser
    random mutation and natural selection? 

    So there was a "conscience" mutation that happened lol