Correct me if I am wrong, but haven't the Democrats in Congress had the full power to pass any legislation they want up to now?
You’re wrong. Because your a dummy who doesn’t understand what the filibuster is.
Arizona Republican Party used the Big Lie to raise money from their dummy constituents
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You’re wrong. Because your a dummy who doesn’t understand what the filibuster is.
Oh really, so all the legislation the past 2 years passed up to now has only been done with the support of Republicans, up to and including the inflation reduction act?
Pressing X for doubt.
the Democrats in Congress had the full power to pass any legislation they want up to now?
Full power? Is that right, dummy?
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@Greyparrot
Correct me if I am wrong, but haven't the Democrats in Congress had the full power to pass any legislation they want up to now?
No, you are wrong. Passing legislation through congress requires a way around the filibuster.
Not to mention; no political party is a monolith. In this case we have two senators who do not share the views of the party and stand with republicans most of the time. To blame the entire party for what these two individuals do knowing the rest of the party is against them is just plain stupid.
Why would you throw your hands up in the air and say "Oh the Democrats are powerless"?
Another example of you just making shit up.
Essentially, you are making the claim that democracy is irrelevant because the people you vote for are powerless
No, our system of government is broken as long as the filibuster remains in effect. System of government and democracy are not the same thing.
More to the point though, the solution here is to vote more democrats into office so that the party isn't beholden to whatever Kirsten Sinoma and Joe Manchin will agree to.
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@Double_R
No, you are wrong. Passing legislation through congress requires a way around the filibuster.
Which is possible if you get rid of the filibuster, which is possible with 50 votes + VP. Democrats haven’t done that yet. I wonder why?
Not to mention; no political party is a monolith. In this case we have two senators who do not share the views of the party and stand with republicans most of the time. To blame the entire party for what these two individuals do knowing the rest of the party is against them is just plain stupid.
No it’s not. You and the party helped these people get elected knowing full well they are like that. More so in the case of Manchin. Man has flip flopped his entire life. Is it worth it to spend resources to uphold Joe Manchin who doesn’t vote with you, or go all in on Beto O’Rourke who would do anything you asked. I know the answer to that question. Do you?
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@IwantRooseveltagain
You’re wrong. Because you’re a dummy who doesn’t understand what the filibuster is.
They can get full power, but they choose not to. Is it the failure of Republicans that Chuck Schumer can’t control his caucus? Just takes 50 votes and Kamala Harris.
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@Double_R
Right, donating to the side trying to save our democracy = risking our democracy.Great logic there ILP5
Donating to a side that donates to candidates who want to risk democracy. I wouldn’t want my money going towards supporting Democrats who want to defund the police.
Just takes 50 votes and Kamala Harris.
JC dummy. The filibuster requires 60 votes. Changing the filibuster is dangerous because eventually the Republicans will be in charge and they are nuts.
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@Double_R
No, you are wrong. Passing legislation through congress requires a way around the filibuster.
But the Democrats have passed nearly a hundred laws...
You're going to sit there and tell me the Democrats can pass 100 laws, but can't fix democracy now?
You're making the case that it doesn't matter who you vote for.... Congress can pass hundreds of things to care for their lobbyists but not a single popular law for the people that vote for them?
Hmmm.
You're going to sit there and tell me the Democrats can't fix democracy now?
When Democrats had huge majorities, from 1932 to 1970, they transformed this country. Presidents like Roosevelt and LBJ signed hundreds of bills from those Congresses into law. We got SS, unemployment insurance, laws to protect the environment, civil rights laws, Medicare benefits, on and on. The Republicans resisted all of it but when they realized they couldn’t stop it and the laws were popular, they eventually joined in.
and the laws were popular,
Bingo..
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@IwantRooseveltagain
You're going to sit there and tell me the Democrats can't fix democracy now?When Democrats had huge majorities, from 1932 to 1970, they transformed this country. Presidents like Roosevelt and LBJ signed hundreds of bills from those Congresses into law. We got SS, unemployment insurance, laws to protect the environment, civil rights laws, Medicare benefits, on and on. The Republicans resisted all of it but when they realized they couldn’t stop it and the laws were popular, they eventually joined in.
Biden achieved a lot even with the slim majority the Democrats have in both House and Senate? Look at how Trump spent the last two years as Biden made America well again.
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@Shila
Biden achieved a lot even with the slim majority the Democrats have in both House and Senate? Look at how Trump spent the last two years as Biden made America well again.
zhōngguó jiùshì zǒngshì zhèng
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@ILikePie5
You and the party helped these people get elected knowing full well they are like that. More so in the case of Manchin. Man has flip flopped his entire life. Is it worth it to spend resources to uphold Joe Manchin who doesn’t vote with you, or go all in on Beto O’Rourke who would do anything you asked. I know the answer to that question. Do you?
You aren't dumb enough or ignorant enough to believe the nonsense you just typed, so I'll chalk this up to another round of you arguing in bad faith to not let the other side "win", as you have proclaimed yourself to do.
To state the obvious; Democrats don't get to choose between Beto and Joe Manchin. They represent different states. Manchin is a democrat from one of the redest states in the country. Sinoma is from a redish/purple state democrats would have a very tough time winning of they went with anyone else. To pretend that these two individuals represent the Democratic party is just plain stupid and you know that.
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@Double_R
You aren't dumb enough or ignorant enough to believe the nonsense you just typed, so I'll chalk this up to another round of you arguing in bad faith to not let the other side "win", as you have proclaimed yourself to do.
Lol
To state the obvious; Democrats don't get to choose between Beto and Joe Manchin.
They actually do. If more resources were diverted from Manchin to Beto, you would have a far reliable vote. It’s obvious to me that you’d want Beto over Manchin, just as an example.
They represent different states. Manchin is a democrat from one of the redest states in the country.
Yet he’s still a Democrat and caucuses with Democrats. He still gets marching orders from Chuck Schumer and Dick Durbin.
Sinoma is from a redish/purple state democrats would have a very tough time winning of they went with anyone else. To pretend that these two individuals represent the Democratic party is just plain stupid and you know that.
Democrats willingly accept them into their ranks. They put millions into their races, not the republicans. They knew full well where Manchin was from.
You however cannot hide behind the filibuster. Every member of your caucus was not willing to get rid of the filibuster under Trump. McConnell controlled the GOP into not getting rid of the filibuster. Now when the tables turn, Democrats want to get rid of it and cry bad faith when Manchin sticks to his opinion.
If Chuck Schumer had any power he’d force Sinema and Manchin to kow tow and get rid of the filibuster. It’s yalls own fault the filibuster exists today.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
JC dummy. The filibuster requires 60 votes. Changing the filibuster is dangerous because eventually the Republicans will be in charge and they are nuts.
Yet your party…supports ending the filibuster lol. They can’t hide behind the filibuster if they have the power to end it, but are incompetent
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@ILikePie5
To state the obvious; Democrats don't get to choose between Beto and Joe Manchin.They actually do. If more resources were diverted from Manchin to Beto, you would have a far reliable vote. It’s obvious to me that you’d want Beto over Manchin, just as an example.
Campaign funds to not determine who wins. Just ask Jeb Bush.
And even if they did, your claim is still nonsense. Each candidate has their own campaigns with their own donors. No one just decides how much each campaign gets to spend.
This is not a serious argument.
They represent different states. Manchin is a democrat from one of the redest states in the country.Yet he’s still a Democrat and caucuses with Democrats. He still gets marching orders from Chuck Schumer and Dick Durbin.
Again, you're not stupid enough to believe this. Manchin has been a thorn in the democrats side for years and especially under Biden. He's made it clear that he couldn't care less what they want. He takes his matching orders from the people who voted for him. Anytime who's paid any attention to politics knows this.
Sinoma is from a redish/purple state democrats would have a very tough time winning of they went with anyone else. To pretend that these two individuals represent the Democratic party is just plain stupid and you know that.Democrats willingly accept them into their ranks. They put millions into their races, not the republicans. They knew full well where Manchin was from.
They accept them into their ranks and contribute to their campaigns because the alternative is a republican in that seat, and if that happens then democrats would not get to decide what comes up for a vote in the Senate.
Are you new to politics? Why do I have to explain this to you?
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@ILikePie5
Yet your party…supports ending the filibuster lol. They can’t hide behind the filibuster if they have the power to end it, but are incompetent
The republicans under Trump had the WH, Senate, and House and still couldn't get rid of the filibuster. So according to your logic they're just as incompetent.
In fact that had larger majorities than the democrats do now, so that makes them more incompetent.
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@Double_R
Campaign funds to not determine who wins. Just ask Jeb Bush.And even if they did, your claim is still nonsense. Each candidate has their own campaigns with their own donors. No one just decides how much each campaign gets to spend.This is not a serious argument.
I’m not just referring to money lol.
Again, you're not stupid enough to believe this. Manchin has been a thorn in the democrats side for years and especially under Biden.
For years? Really? You’re out of your mind to believe that. He was a reliable vote for Harry Reid and then Chuck Schumer up until Joe Biden became President. What’s the thing that’s changed? Joe Biden.
He's made it clear that he couldn't care less what they want. He takes his matching orders from the people who voted for him. Anytime who's paid any attention to politics knows this.
He’s still a Democrat. He runs with a D next to his name. He caucuses with radicals like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.
I thought Joe Biden was supposed to be the great negotiator, who would get Republicans to vote for his proposals. Man can’t even control people in his own party lol. So much for working class Joe
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@Double_R
The republicans under Trump had the WH, Senate, and House and still couldn't get rid of the filibuster. So according to your logic they're just as incompetent.
There was no serious effort to get rid of the filibuster lol. McConnell was against removing it since Day 1. Democrats have been trying to get rid of it since Biden was elected.
In fact that had larger majorities than the democrats do now, so that makes them more incompetent.
Lol assuming they actually wanted to get rid of it. Stop strawmanning and accept your party cannot effectively whip votes. Dick Durbin is clearly incompetent. And so is Joe
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@ILikePie5
I’m not just referring to money lol.
Your original contention here is that democrats are somehow choosing between Beto and Joe Manchin, two individuals running for different offices in different states to be a part of different governments. You can expand your claim to be about more than money, that doesn't change the absurdity of it.
For years? Really? You’re out of your mind to believe that. He was a reliable vote for Harry Reid and then Chuck Schumer up until Joe Biden became President. What’s the thing that’s changed? Joe Biden.
Your original contention here is that Joe Manchin gets his marching orders from Dick Durbin and Chuck Schumer, another absurd and objectively false claim.
He’s still a Democrat. He runs with a D next to his name. He caucuses with radicals like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.
So if he suddenly decided to caucus with republicans and switch the Senate to republican control, can I then claim the republican party is incompetent every time Joe Manchin decides not to vote for anything they bring to the floor? Serious question, since this is how you seem to think it works.
I thought Joe Biden was supposed to be the great negotiator, who would get Republicans to vote for his proposals. Man can’t even control people in his own party lol. So much for working class Joe
Now this is just plain stupid.
I never claimed Joe Biden was Professor X. He doesn't control people. He's not a God, nor have I ever claimed him to be anything close to one. Notice how I do not have his face as my avatar? Cult worship is a right wing thing.
Second, the absurdity of republicans refusing to work with Biden on anything and then blaming him for failing to bring republicans to the table never ceases to amaze me. I really just wonder if republican voters are this stupid to think this criticism makes sense.
Third, if you actually believed that the greatness of the person in the oval office can magically make congress work together to achieve whatever the president wants, tell me about how that wall is going...
Stop strawmanning and accept your party cannot effectively whip votes. Dick Durbin is clearly incompetent. And so is Joe
I don't have a problem with attacking democrats for their failures, I take issue with bullshit and stupidity, especially when it comes from someone who clearly knows better. If that's the only point you wanted to make we could have a serious conversation about it instead of these cartoonish discussions you love to get into.
The cost of defending America's Ukraine colony is going to cost Democrats dearly in November.
What a serious fuckup.
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@Double_R
Your original contention here is that democrats are somehow choosing between Beto and Joe Manchin, two individuals running for different offices in different states to be a part of different governments. You can expand your claim to be about more than money, that doesn't change the absurdity of it.
It’s not absurd to suggest a triage of WV Senate so resources can be diverted to TX Senate. Even you have to admit Beto would be better for Dems than Manchin ever was
Your original contention here is that Joe Manchin gets his marching orders from Dick Durbin and Chuck Schumer, another absurd and objectively false claim.
He has since 2010. What changed? Joe Biden. So who’s fault is that?
So if he suddenly decided to caucus with republicans and switch the Senate to republican control, can I then claim the republican party is incompetent every time Joe Manchin decides not to vote for anything they bring to the floor? Serious question, since this is how you seem to think it works.
You clearly do not understand my argument lol
Now this is just plain stupid.I never claimed Joe Biden was Professor X. He doesn't control people. He's not a God, nor have I ever claimed him to be anything close to one. Notice how I do not have his face as my avatar? Cult worship is a right wing thing.
But that’s what he ran on. He was the President of the Senate for 8 years. He was in the Senate for even longer. But the fact that even middle class Joe can’t convince Joe Manchin shows how bad Joe Biden and the Democratic Party is.
Second, the absurdity of republicans refusing to work with Biden on anything and then blaming him for failing to bring republicans to the table never ceases to amaze me. I really just wonder if republican voters are this stupid to think this criticism makes sense.
Where were you from 2016-2018. Dems didn’t work with GOP on anything. We called y’all out, and then moved on. We didn’t make a concerted effort to get rid of the filibuster to avoid working with Dems. We still tried to, even if y’all didn’t.
Third, if you actually believed that the greatness of the person in the oval office can magically make congress work together to achieve whatever the president wants, tell me about how that wall is going...
I mean it’s one member of Congress out of 535. I think that’s very possible if you have a competent person in the White House. Hell if Schumer and the DSCC were competent in 2018 you could’ve had Senator O’Rourke
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@Greyparrot
Dems not controlling their own party members to abolish the filibuster and blaming the GOP for not helping them do anything is prime cope
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@ILikePie5
Focus groups said orangemanbad would work for a tanked economy....
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@Greyparrot
The cost of defending America's Ukraine colony is going to cost Democrats dearly in November.What a serious fuckup.
Oh no, are you saying the Dems have lost the whakjob Neo-Nazi vote?
Truth be told, we already knew they were voting Republican anyway.
No surprise you chicken little arse posted this stupid thread.
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@Sidewalker
Oh no, are you saying the Dems have lost the whakjob Neo-Nazi vote?
Sadly, the Azov battalion cannot save their paymasters in November.
Truth be told, we already knew they were voting Republican anyway.
The independents? I thought you believed the current elites when they said they could fix the economy?
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@ILikePie5
It’s not absurd to suggest a triage of WV Senate so resources can be diverted to TX Senate.
I never said it was, the absurdity is claiming that putting resources towards both races equates to "choosing" Joe Manchin over Beto.
But the fact that even middle class Joe can’t convince Joe Manchin shows how bad Joe Biden and the Democratic Party is.
And the fact that the great negotiator Donald Trump couldn't convince John McCain to go along with healthcare shows how bad Trump and the republican party is.
Where were you from 2016-2018. Dems didn’t work with GOP on anything. We called y’all out, and then moved on. We didn’t make a concerted effort to get rid of the filibuster to avoid working with Dems. We still tried to, even if y’all didn’t.
So what? You're arguing that the democrats are incompetent because they cannot gain unanimous support from every member of their party. The republicans couldn't either, so according to your logic Trump and the republicans are just as incompetent. So what is your point?
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@Double_R
I never said it was, the absurdity is claiming that putting resources towards both races equates to "choosing" Joe Manchin over Beto.
Sure, but you cannot deny that if Beto had more volunteers from the DSCC or even more money, Beto could’ve done far better. Manchin was an incumbent.
And the fact that the great negotiator Donald Trump couldn't convince John McCain to go along with healthcare shows how bad Trump and the republican party is.
I mean, I was surprised negotiation would even be needed considering McCain had been running on repealing and replacing Obamacare for years, but sure. Trump’s personality likely made it worse.
So what? You're arguing that the democrats are incompetent because they cannot gain unanimous support from every member of their party. The republicans couldn't either, so according to your logic Trump and the republicans are just as incompetent. So what is your point?
The difference is that one side wants to claim the power to pass bills only with 50 votes + the VP. The other side refused to do it. With great power comes great responsibility