The case for the Historical Jesus

Author: Shila

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@Stephen
An empty tomb is only evidence that a tomb was found to be empty. Nothing you have produced proves anything at all.

Sorry to burst your bubble but resurrection is nothing more than an initiation ritual into one sect or another.

Again read what is being posted. There were eyewitness accounts testifying to the appearances of the risen Jesus to those who knew him.
Yep. I read that.  It states nothing about a single one of them witnessing stinking and rotting a three-day old corpse rising from a cold stone slab.

 And it is debateable whether Jesus was even dead when they took him down from the cross. He could have been unconscious or in a coma.  You need to look at what was given to him while he was hanging there losing his faith in his "father".  
Jesus did indeed die. Jesus was crucified and the Gospels record his last breath.

Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

Mark 15:37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.

Matthew 27:50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.


The Burial of Jesus

Matthew 27:57 As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus. 58 Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus’ body, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. 59 Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went away. 61 Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were sitting there opposite the tomb.

The Guard at the Tomb

62 The next day, the one after Preparation Day, the chief priests and the Pharisees went to Pilate. 63 “Sir,” they said, “we remember that while he was still alive that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise again.’ 64 So give the order for the tomb to be made secure until the third day. Otherwise, his disciples may come and steal the body and tell the people that he has been raised from the dead. This last deception will be worse than the first.”

65 “Take a guard,” Pilate answered. “Go, make the tomb as secure as you know how.” 66 So they went and made the tomb secure by putting a seal on the stone and posting the guard.

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Shila
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Shila, the Copy and Paste Artist, the dumbfounded Bible fool, and the runaway from Bible facts about our Historical Jesus,

Barring your outright Bible stupidity that Jesus DID NOT DIE as I have shown you in this link: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8091/post-links/353291   why do you continue to run away in discussion like Miss Tradesecret does when I present biblical axioms to the two of you?  As explicitly shown below, the “Historical Jesus,” which is the topic of your ungodly thread in not following 1 Timothy 2:11-14, had the biblical attributes listed below, bar none!
Jesus was crucified and the Gospels record his last breath.

Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

Mark 15:37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.

Matthew 27:50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
Those attributes that you sheepishly RUN AWAY from about our Jesus as being Yahweh God incarnate are as follows: Jesus was embarrassingly, greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent.
We now know the Jesus you worship is very different from the Jesus Christians worship.

Here is how you described the Jesus you worship BrotherD.:

BrotherD wrote: “our Jesus we worship, as the Serial Killer Yahweh God incarnate, was embarrassingly, greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent!

Why are you blaspheming Jesus, BrotherD.?
Shila, remember bible stupid fool, your thread is about the "historical Jesus," therefore,  the aforementioned attributes about Jesus are all in context with your pitiful and embarrassing thread!  Get it?
Shila, are you that SCARED in front of the membership to discuss the real Historical Jesus as shown above?  Huh?  Or, are you going to run like Miss Tradesecret does and HIDE from your own thread?  LOL!

Shila is the only member who has dared to build a case for the Historical Jesus with evidence that Jesus existed.
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@Stephen

--> @BrotherD.Thomas
Shila, are you that SCARED in front of the membership to discuss the real Historical Jesus as shown above? 

The thing here Brother D. is that Shila is of the impression that because no one on this thread has actually argued against there ever being an historical Jesus, he has jumped to the conclusion that he somehow proven that an historical Jesus actually existed. Which of course he hasn't proven any such thing. 
Here you are confirming  that no one on this thread has actually argued against there ever being an historical Jesus.
There is a good reason why no one on this thread has actually argued against there ever being an historical Jesus, it proves Shila has successfully built the case for the Historical Jesus. Very convincing evidence were presented and  several historical sources added.
There are more atheist members who now believe Jesus existed than we had before Shila built the case for the Historical Jesus.

#334
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@Shila


Shila, 


YOUR DECEIVING AND DUMBFOUNDED QUOTE RELATIVE TO JESUS AS YAHWEH GOD INCARNATE: "We now know the Jesus you worship is very different from the Jesus Christians worship.

Here is how you described the Jesus you worship BrotherD.:

BrotherD wrote: “our Jesus we worship, as the Serial Killer Yahweh God incarnate, was embarrassingly, greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent!

Why are you blaspheming Jesus, BrotherD.?"



HELLO SHILA BIBLE FOOL!  I am NOT blaspheming Jesus because I have described Jesus' true historical modus operandi within the scriptures in Jesus being Yahweh God incarnate, of which you are obviously unaware of because of your complete Bible stupidity!  Now, once again, are you ready to discuss the aforementioned TRUE statements relative to Jesus, or are you going to run away from them and go into hiding,  just like the equally Bible ignorant Tradesecret continually does? 

Again, remember dear, this thread is about the "Historical Jesus," therefore the MO of Jesus as I have shown above is pertinent to your ungodly thread!

Waiting for your response!


.

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@Sidewalker


Sidewalker,

YOUR DUMBFOUNDED AND UNCALLED FOR QUOTE: "Why do you keep feeding these trolls?"

I am assuming that you are talking about Stephen and I as assumed trolls, therefore, first off, we are NOT trolls, but very experienced upon the Judeo-Christian Bible whereas we easily make Shila and Miss Tradesecret the Bible stupid fools that they are!  

You are just lucky that I personally have not shown you to be an equal Bible fool of the aforementioned duo above!  You  can thank me later.

.
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Shila
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Shila, 


YOUR DECEIVING AND DUMBFOUNDED QUOTE RELATIVE TO JESUS AS YAHWEH GOD INCARNATE:"We now know the Jesus you worship is very different from the Jesus Christians worship.
Here is how you described the Jesus you worship BrotherD.:
BrotherD wrote: “our Jesus we worship, as the Serial Killer Yahweh God incarnate, was embarrassingly, greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent!

Why are you blaspheming Jesus, BrotherD.?"


HELLO SHILA BIBLE FOOL!  I am NOT blaspheming Jesus because I have described Jesus' true historical modus operandi within the scriptures in Jesus being Yahweh God incarnate, of which you are obviously unaware of because of your complete Bible stupidity!  Now, once again, are you ready to discuss the aforementioned TRUE statements relative to Jesus, or are you going to run away from them and go into hiding,  just like the equally Bible ignorant Tradesecret continually does? 
You even  deny you are blaspheming Jesus after your reconfirmation in quotes,  “I am NOT blaspheming Jesus because I have have described Jesus' true historical modus operandi within the scriptures in Jesus being Yahweh God incarnate, of which you are obviously unaware of because of your complete Bible stupidity!  
Our Jesus we worship, as the Serial Killer Yahweh God incarnate, was embarrassingly, greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent!

Again, remember dear, this thread is about the "Historical Jesus," therefore the MO of Jesus as I have shown above is pertinent to your ungodly thread!
Your MO of Jesus is nothing like the Historical Jesus based on the Bible or historical sources Shila used to build the case of the Historical Jesus.
Waiting for your response!
Think carefully what you said, “ I am NOT blaspheming Jesus because I have described Jesus' true historical modus operandi within the scriptures in Jesus being Yahweh God incarnate, of which you are obviously unaware of because of your complete Bible stupidity! Our Jesus we worship, as the Serial Killer Yahweh God incarnate, was embarrassingly, greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent!

#337
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Funny thought really:

Birds that quack are ducks - and yet South Kentucky is the home of Brother. Perhaps he is a chicken.  

Certainly given he never really replies in any way but hiding behind his innuendos and false bravado - it makes me lean towards the latter. 


#338
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Have you ever seen a chicken run?  

Waddle and twaddle.  

quack and quack. 

cognito ergo, sum duck. with gravy. 
#339
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Again read what is being posted. There were eyewitness accounts testifying to the appearances of the risen Jesus to those who knew him

Yep. I read that.  It states nothing about a single one of them witnessing stinking and rotting a three-day old corpse rising from a cold stone slab.
 And it is debateable whether Jesus was even dead when they took him down from the cross. He could have been unconscious or in a coma.  You need to look at what was given to him while he was hanging there losing his faith in his "father".  

Jesus did indeed die. Jesus was crucified and the Gospels record his last breath.
Nope there is absolutely no evidence that Jesus died on the cross. He could well have simply fell into unconsciousness after such a brutal beating, then having to walk a third of a mile to the location of the crucifixion and then agony of being nailed to some wood.  I am sure I would pass out.

What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 

Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.
 You may want to place Mary Magdelana attending the event, but she is never recorded as being a disciple and, it is said, that she and a few other women stood and to have " watched from afar". 
It is as you insist, "the bible should be taken literally at all times".


There are more atheist members who now believe Jesus existed than we had before Shila built the case for the Historical Jesus.

There have always been atheists that believe as I do in the possibility that a biblical character named Jesus existed and well before you were even born. But I will often admit that I cannot prove it.   So, it has nothing to do with you "building a case".  So stop getting ahead of yourself because you have proven nothing.


#340
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@Stephen
It doesn't take too much to get you frustrated does it Stephen, you little stalker you?

Mark 15:45 gives evidence by a Roman Centurion that Jesus was dead.  That this evidence was satisfactory to Pilate enabled him to permit the body to be removed and given to Joseph of Arimathea. 

John 19:32 also gives evidence by Roman Soldiers that when they came to Jesus he was already dead, so they did not break his legs.  Instead one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear - bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.  This was evidence that Jesus was dead. 

The scriptures testify that Jesus died.  There is sufficient evidence of this. To say there is none is nonsense. And the ravings of a man not willing to accept anything. 



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Shila
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@Stephen
Jesus did indeed die. Jesus was crucified and the Gospels record his last breath.
Nope there is absolutely no evidence that Jesus died on the cross. He could well have simply fell into unconsciousness after such a brutal beating, then having to walk a third of a mile to the location of the crucifixion and then agony of being nailed to some wood.  I am sure I would pass out.
You accept Jesus was brutally beaten, had to walk a third of a mile to the location of the crucifixion and then agony of being nailed to some wood. Which was the crucifixion of Jesus.

Here is what followed.

John 19:31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. 32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

The Burial of Jesus

38 Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away. 39 He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds.[e] 40 Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs. 41 At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. 42 Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.
What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 

Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.
 You may want to place Mary Magdelana attending the event, but she is never recorded as being a disciple and, it is said, that she and a few other women stood and to have " watched from afar". 
It is as you insist, "the bible should be taken literally at all times".
You even accept the disciples watch the crucifixion from a distance. So they were eyewitness to the crucifixion which they recorded in the Gospels.

Luke 23:49 But all those who knew him, including the women who had followed him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things.


There are more atheist members who now believe Jesus existed than we had before Shila built the case for the Historical Jesus.

There have always been atheists that believe as I do in the possibility that a biblical character named Jesus existed and well before you were even born. But I will often admit that I cannot prove it.   So, it has nothing to do with you "building a case".  So stop getting ahead of yourself because you have proven nothing.
I have successfully built a case for the Historical Jesus and have even begun to remove any doubts about the Biblical Jesus.
Showing you details about Jesus’s crucifixion from Gospel accounts further validates the Bible which in turn corroborates the historical accounts.
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Shila
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@Tradesecret

Stephen: Nope there is absolutely no evidence that Jesus died on the cross. He could well have simply fell into unconsciousness after such a brutal beating, then having to walk a third of a mile to the location of the crucifixion and then agony of being nailed to some wood.  I am sure I would pass out.

--> @Stephen
It doesn't take too much to get you frustrated does it Stephen, you little stalker you?

Mark 15:45 gives evidence by a Roman Centurion that Jesus was dead.  That this evidence was satisfactory to Pilate enabled him to permit the body to be removed and given to Joseph of Arimathea. 

John 19:32 also gives evidence by Roman Soldiers that when they came to Jesus he was already dead, so they did not break his legs.  Instead one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear - bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.  This was evidence that Jesus was dead. 

The scriptures testify that Jesus died.  There is sufficient evidence of this. To say there is none is nonsense. And the ravings of a man not willing to accept anything. 
Both Stephen and BrotherD. quote scriptures but remain in denial. They are indeed ravings of two men  not willing to accept anything. 
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The resurrection of Jesus.

There were eyewitness accounts testifying to the appearances of the risen Jesus to those who knew him.

The reason people came to believe in the resurrection is because of the appearances of the risen Jesus to those who knew him. Significantly, there are so many accounts of Jesus’s appearances to his disciples that we do not have the space to even quote them all here, much less discuss them.24 Instead, I’ll just summarize the evidence in the form of a list.

The Appearances of the Resurrected Jesus

1. Jesus appears to Mary Magdalene
(Matthew 28:1-10; John 20:14-18)
2. Jesus appears to several female disciples
(Matthew 28:1-10; Mark 16:1-8; Luke 24:1-11)
3. Jesus appears to Simon Peter
(Luke 24:34; 1 Corinthians 15:5; John 21:1-24)
4. Jesus appears to James, John, Thomas, Nathanael, and two others
(John 21:1-24)
5. Jesus appears to the eleven disciples as a group
(Matthew 28:16-20; John 20:19-29)
6. Jesus appears to Cleopas and one unnamed disciple
(Luke 24:13-35)
7. Jesus appears to more than five hundred “brothers” at once
(1 Corinthians 15:6)
8. Jesus appears to James (a.k.a. “the Lord’s brother”)
(1 Corinthians 15:7; compare Galatians 2:19)
“9. Jesus appears to Saul of Tarsus (a.k.a. Paul)
(1 Corinthians 15:8)”

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Shila
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Here is how you described the Jesus you worship BrotherD.:
BrotherD wrote: “our Jesus we worship, as the Serial Killer Yahweh God incarnate, was embarrassingly, greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent!

Why are you blaspheming Jesus, BrotherD.?"
HELLO SHILA BIBLE FOOL!  I am NOT blaspheming Jesus because I have described Jesus' true historical modus operandi within the scriptures in Jesus being Yahweh God incarnate, of which you are obviously unaware of because of your complete Bible stupidity!  Now, once again, are you ready to discuss the aforementioned TRUE statements relative to Jesus, or are you going to run away from them and go into hiding,  just like the equally Bible ignorant Tradesecret continually does? 
You even  deny you are blaspheming Jesus after your reconfirmation in quotes,  “I am NOT blaspheming Jesus because I have have described Jesus' true historical modus operandi within the scriptures in Jesus being Yahweh God incarnate, of which you are obviously unaware of because of your complete Bible stupidity!  

Our Jesus we worship, as the Serial Killer Yahweh God incarnate, was embarrassingly, greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent!

Again, remember dear, this thread is about the "Historical Jesus," therefore the MO of Jesus as I have shown above is pertinent to your ungodly thread!

Your MO of Jesus is nothing like the Historical Jesus based on the Bible or historical sources Shila used to build the case of the Historical Jesus.

Waiting for your response!

BrotherD. Think carefully what you said, “ I am NOT blaspheming Jesus because I have described Jesus' true historical modus operandi within the scriptures in Jesus being Yahweh God incarnate, of which you are obviously unaware of because of your complete Bible stupidity! Our Jesus we worship, as the Serial Killer Yahweh God incarnate, was embarrassingly, greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent!

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Shila
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@Stephen
--> @Shila
What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 

Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.
 You may want to place Mary Magdelana attending the event, but she is never recorded as being a disciple and, it is said, that she and a few other women stood and to have " watched from afar". 
It is as you insist, "the bible should be taken literally at all times".
You even accept the disciples watch the crucifixion from a distance.

Nope. Learn to read. I clearly wrote:


Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.#339

And you have failed to answer this question tree time>>  "What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge"? 

Luke 23:49 But all those who knew him, including the women who had followed him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things.

The disciples were watching the crucifixion from a distance. But they were there watching the crucifixion from a distance.

#346
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@Tradesecret
@Shila


.
Shila, the biblical fool that is to SCARED to discuss Jesus' true modus operandi as Yahweh God incarnate within the Bible,

YOUR CONTINUED BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTE IN POST #336: "Your MO of Jesus is nothing like the Historical Jesus based on the Bible or historical sources Shila used to build the case of the Historical Jesus."

Wrong, bible ignorant fool!  I have asked you many time if you are not too SCARED to discuss Jesus' true MO within the scriptures, but you have ran away like a little school girl from doing so, just like Miss Tradesecret does to biblical axioms at her embarrassing expense as shown herewith: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8105/post-links/353895

This is the last time in front of the membership, that will be on record in the future and used against you anyway, are you ready to discuss Jesus with the attributes that I have shown Him to be, shown below, or not?   As usual, Miss Tradesecret would RUN, therefore, are you going to be like her as well? Huh?

Our Jesus we worship, as the Serial Killer Yahweh God incarnate, was embarrassingly, greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent!

Shila, are you also SCARED that in true discussion of Jesus' MO with me, that it will derail your entire misguided thread of Jesus' true historical presence and that is why you are running away from this discussion?

.




#347
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What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 

Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.
 You may want to place Mary Magdelana attending the event, but she is never recorded as being a disciple and, it is said, that she and a few other women stood and to have " watched from afar". 
It is as you insist, "the bible should be taken literally at all times".
You even accept the disciples watch the crucifixion from a distance.

Nope. Learn to read. I clearly wrote:


Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.#339

 The verse you offer simply states "some people" not disciples which indicates simply people on a family day out at the crucifixion. And further John appears contradict both Luke and mark.  That is one for you Christians, to get over.

And you have failed to answer this question tree time>>  "What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge"? 


#348
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@Stephen
@Tradesecret
@Shila


Stephen,

Don't you wish that DEBATEART Religion Forum had a simple rule, that when you are so Bible stupid as Shila and Miss Tradesecret, as we have easily shown them to be ad infinitum, that they have to take a 2 week furlough to give us, and other members, a needed rest from their Bible ignorance!!!

I alone, am almost at the point of hiring a secretary to keep track and file all of Shilas and Miss Tradesecrets dumbfounded biblical posts, to therefore address them more quickly to further their embarrassment.  Its a full time job in keeping up with these two outright Bible fools!  LOL!


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Shila
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@BrotherD.Thomas

.
Shila, the biblical fool that is to SCARED to discuss Jesus' true modus operandi as Yahweh God incarnate within the Bible,

YOUR CONTINUED BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTE IN POST #336: "Your MO of Jesus is nothing like the Historical Jesus based on the Bible or historical sources Shila used to build the case of the Historical Jesus."

Wrong, bible ignorant fool!  I have asked you many time if you are not too SCARED to discuss Jesus' true MO within the scriptures, but you have ran away like a little school girl from doing so, just likeMiss Tradesecret does to biblical axioms at her embarrassing expense as shown herewith: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8105/post-links/353895

This is the last time in front of the membership, that will be on record in the future and used against you anyway, are you ready to discuss Jesus with the attributes that I have shown Him to be, shown below, or not?   As usual, Miss Tradesecret would RUN, therefore, are you going to be like her as well? Huh?

Our Jesus we worship, as the Serial Killer Yahweh God incarnate, was embarrassingly, greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent!
Just read the nonsense you belief about your Jesus.

BrotherD. wrote: Our Jesus we worship, as the Serial Killer Yahweh God incarnate, was embarrassingly, greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent!
Shila, are you also SCARED that in true discussion of Jesus' MO with me, that it will derail your entire misguided thread of Jesus' true historical presence and that is why you are running away from this discussion?
You are not derailing the truth. You are just proving how scripturally ignorant you are as well as misguided to claim the Jesus you worship in your own words, “Our Jesus we worship, as the Serial Killer Yahweh God incarnate, was embarrassingly, greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent!”
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@Stephen
What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 

Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.
 You may want to place Mary Magdelana attending the event, but she is never recorded as being a disciple and, it is said, that she and a few other women stood and to have " watched from afar". 
It is as you insist, "the bible should be taken literally at all times".
You even accept the disciples watch the crucifixion from a distance.

Nope. Learn to read. I clearly wrote:


Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.#339
The disciples we’re not there to smell his feet. They were watching from the distance the crucifixion so they could write about it.

 The verse you offer simply states "some people" not disciples which indicates simply people on a family day out at the crucifixion. And further John appears contradict both Luke and mark.  That is one for you Christians, to get over.
Lear to read.
Luke 23:49 But all those who knew him, including the women who had followed him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things.
The people who knew Jesus were his 12 disciples who followed Jesus everywhere. This is why they were able to write about  the crucifixion because they were there watching from a distance.

The women mentioned were: Mary, mother of James and Joseph/Joses is mentioned by Matthew and Mark. The others are mentioned by one gospel only: Mary, the mother of Jesus; Mary, the mother of the sons of Zebedee; Salome; a sister of Mary, mother of Jesus; Mary of Clopas
And you have failed to answer this question tree time>>  "What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge"? 
Matthew 27:48 Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink.

Both you and BrotherD. are scripturally ignorant.
#351
Stephen
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@Shila
What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 

Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.
 You may want to place Mary Magdelana attending the event, but she is never recorded as being a disciple and, it is said, that she and a few other women stood and to have " watched from afar". 
It is as you insist, "the bible should be taken literally at all times".
You even accept the disciples watch the crucifixion from a distance.

Nope. Learn to read. I clearly wrote:


Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.#339
The disciples we’re not there to smell his feet. They were watching from the distance the crucifixion so they could write about it.

 That is simply not the case. There is absolutely no mention of a single disciple being anywhere near the crucifixion site never mind the cross. They all scattered after the arrest and went into hiding.



learn to read. The women mentioned were: Mary, mother of James and Joseph/Joses is mentioned by Matthew and Mark. The others are mentioned by one gospel only: Mary, the mother of Jesus; Mary, the mother of the sons of Zebedee; Salome; a sister of Mary, mother of Jesus; Mary of Clopas

Yes I know about the women looking from afar in one gospel, and yet another gospel has them within speaking distance to Christ . But not a single mention of a single one of the 12 disciples being anywhere near their lord and master at the time he was nailed up and losing his faith in his "father".

 Get over it. Your holy 12 did one almighty disappearing act when the chips were down, sunshine.

And you still haven't answered this>. What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Stephen,

Don't you wish that DEBATEART Religion Forum had a simple rule, that when you are so Bible stupid as Shila and Miss Tradesecret, as we have easily shown them to be ad infinitum, that they have to take a 2 week furlough to give us, and other members, a needed rest from their Bible ignorance!!!

Well your god must have read my mind Brother D. and passed it onto you. It was only a few days ago where I was thinking that sometimes, some threads need an adjudicator. Such as when it was vehemently denied that a pastor and or a chaplain are to be addressed as Reverend, for which there is clear evidence that this is most certainly the case.

Or when shila  tried to tell me that a British Prime Minister is also the PM of Australia.

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Shila
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@Stephen

Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.#339
The disciples we’re not there to smell his feet. They were watching from the distance the crucifixion so they could write about it.

 That is simply not the case. There is absolutely no mention of a single disciple being anywhere near the crucifixion site never mind the cross. They all scattered after the arrest and went into hiding.
learn to read. The women mentioned were: Mary, mother of James and Joseph/Joses is mentioned by Matthew and Mark. The others are mentioned by one gospel only: Mary, the mother of Jesus; Mary, the mother of the sons of Zebedee; Salome; a sister of Mary, mother of Jesus; Mary of Clopas


Yes I know about the women looking from afar in one gospel, and yet another gospel has them within speaking distance to Christ . But not a single mention of a single one of the 12 disciples being anywhere near their lord and master at the time he was nailed up and losing his faith in his "father".

 Get over it. Your holy 12 did one almighty disappearing act when the chips were down, sunshine. 
The crucifixion was about Jesus, not the disciples. They were watching from the distance the crucifixion so they could write about it.

#354
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@Shila
What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 

Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.
 You may want to place Mary Magdelana attending the event, but she is never recorded as being a disciple and, it is said, that she and a few other women stood and to have " watched from afar". 
It is as you insist, "the bible should be taken literally at all times".
You even accept the disciples watch the crucifixion from a distance.

Nope. Learn to read. I clearly wrote:


Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.#339
The disciples we’re not there to smell his feet. They were watching from the distance the crucifixion so they could write about it.

 That is simply not the case. There is absolutely no mention of a single disciple being anywhere near the crucifixion site never mind the cross. They all scattered after the arrest and went into hiding.



learn to read. The women mentioned were: Mary, mother of James and Joseph/Joses is mentioned by Matthew and Mark. The others are mentioned by one gospel only: Mary, the mother of Jesus; Mary, the mother of the sons of Zebedee; Salome; a sister of Mary, mother of Jesus; Mary of Clopas

Yes I know about the women looking from afar in one gospel, and yet another gospel has them within speaking distance to Christ . But not a single mention of a single one of the 12 disciples being anywhere near their lord and master at the time he was nailed up and losing his faith in his "father".

 Get over it. Your holy 12 did one almighty disappearing act when the chips were down, sunshine.

And you still haven't answered this>. What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 

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Shila
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@Stephen
--> @BrotherD.Thomas
Stephen,

Don't you wish that DEBATEART Religion Forum had a simple rule, that when you are so Bible stupid as Shila and Miss Tradesecret, as we have easily shown them to be ad infinitum, that they have to take a 2 week furlough to give us, and other members, a needed rest from their Bible ignorance!!!

Well your god must have read my mind Brother D. and passed it onto you. It was only a few days ago where I was thinking that sometimes, some threads need an adjudicator. Such as when it was vehemently denied that a pastor and or a chaplain are to be addressed as Reverend, for which there is clear evidence that this is most certainly the case.

Or when shila  tried to tell me that a British Prime Minister is also the PM of Australia.
News update.
Britain now has its own PM Rishi Sunak. Rishi Sinai is the incumbent Prime Minister, succeeding Liz Truss.
#356
Stephen
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--> @BrotherD.Thomas
Stephen,

Don't you wish that DEBATEART Religion Forum had a simple rule, that when you are so Bible stupid as Shila and Miss Tradesecret, as we have easily shown them to be ad infinitum, that they have to take a 2 week furlough to give us, and other members, a needed rest from their Bible ignorance!!!

Well your god must have read my mind Brother D. and passed it onto you. It was only a few days ago where I was thinking that sometimes, some threads need an adjudicator. Such as when it was vehemently denied that a pastor and or a chaplain are to be addressed as Reverend, for which there is clear evidence that this is most certainly the case.

Or when shila  tried to tell me that a British Prime Minister is also the PM of Australia.
News update.
Britain now has its own PM Rishi Sunak. Rishi Sinai is the incumbent Prime Minister, succeeding Liz Truss.

Yes I know. And that for me certainly spells the end of Great Britain and England as I once knew it..  What's your point thicko?

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Shila
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@Stephen
Yes I know about the women looking from afar in one gospel, and yet another gospel has them within speaking distance to Christ . But not a single mention of a single one of the 12 disciples being anywhere near their lord and master at the time he was nailed up and losing his faith in his "father".
Which disciple was at the crucifixion?

John

Instead, tradition, supported by references in Restoration scripture, 14 has identified John as being the anonymous “disciple whom Jesus loved” who was present at the Last Supper, the Crucifixion, the empty tomb, and in Jesus's final Sea of Galilee appearance.
 Get over it. Your holy 12 did one almighty disappearing act when the chips were down, sunshine.
John alone tells us that the disciples were also there, and he only, moreover, refers to the fact of his own presence, and this in order that he may record Christ's committal of His mother to his care.
"When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, 'Woman,here is your son,' and to the disciple, 'Here is your mother.' From that time on, this disciple took her into his home." (John 19:26-27)

And you still haven't answered this>. What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 
Matthew 27:48 Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink.
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Shila
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@Stephen
--> @BrotherD.Thomas
Stephen,

Don't you wish that DEBATEART Religion Forum had a simple rule, that when you are so Bible stupid as Shila and Miss Tradesecret, as we have easily shown them to be ad infinitum, that they have to take a 2 week furlough to give us, and other members, a needed rest from their Bible ignorance!!!

Well your god must have read my mind Brother D. and passed it onto you. It was only a few days ago where I was thinking that sometimes, some threads need an adjudicator. Such as when it was vehemently denied that a pastor and or a chaplain are to be addressed as Reverend, for which there is clear evidence that this is most certainly the case.

Or when shila  tried to tell me that a British Prime Minister is also the PM of Australia.
News update.
Britain now has its own PM Rishi Sunak. Rishi Sinai is the incumbent Prime Minister, succeeding Liz Truss.

Yes I know. And that for me certainly spells the end of Great Britain and England as I once knew it..  What's your point thicko?
You lied when you posted, “Or when shila  tried to tell me that a British Prime Minister is also the PM of Australia.”

Britain’s PM Liz Truss resigned. So there was no PM of  Britain till they found a replacement.

Britain now has its own PM Rishi Sunak. Rishi Sinai is the incumbent Prime Minister, succeeding Liz Truss.
#359
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@Shila
What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 

Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.
 You may want to place Mary Magdelana attending the event, but she is never recorded as being a disciple and, it is said, that she and a few other women stood and to have " watched from afar". 
It is as you insist, "the bible should be taken literally at all times".
You even accept the disciples watch the crucifixion from a distance.

Nope. Learn to read. I clearly wrote:


Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.#339
The disciples we’re not there to smell his feet. They were watching from the distance the crucifixion so they could write about it.

 That is simply not the case. There is absolutely no mention of a single disciple being anywhere near the crucifixion site never mind the cross. They all scattered after the arrest and went into hiding.



learn to read. The women mentioned were: Mary, mother of James and Joseph/Joses is mentioned by Matthew and Mark. The others are mentioned by one gospel only: Mary, the mother of Jesus; Mary, the mother of the sons of Zebedee; Salome; a sister of Mary, mother of Jesus; Mary of Clopas

Yes I know about the women looking from afar in one gospel, and yet another gospel has them within speaking distance to Christ . But not a single mention of a single one of the 12 disciples being anywhere near their lord and master at the time he was nailed up and losing his faith in his "father".



And you still haven't answered this>. What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 
Matthew 27:48 Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink.

Now tell me what kind of friend would give a dying thirsty man Vinger to drink?

#360
Stephen
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Stephen,

Don't you wish that DEBATEART Religion Forum had a simple rule, that when you are so Bible stupid as Shila and Miss Tradesecret, as we have easily shown them to be ad infinitum, that they have to take a 2 week furlough to give us, and other members, a needed rest from their Bible ignorance!!!

Well your god must have read my mind Brother D. and passed it onto you. It was only a few days ago where I was thinking that sometimes, some threads need an adjudicator. Such as when it was vehemently denied that a pastor and or a chaplain are to be addressed as Reverend, for which there is clear evidence that this is most certainly the case.

Or when shila  tried to tell me that a British Prime Minister is also the PM of Australia.
News update.
Britain now has its own PM Rishi Sunak. Rishi Sinai is the incumbent Prime Minister, succeeding Liz Truss.

Yes I know. And that for me certainly spells the end of Great Britain and England as I once knew it..  What's your point thicko?
You lied when you posted, “Or when shila  tried to tell me that a British Prime Minister is also the PM of Australia.”

 Nope. You supported and agreed that fkn clown tradesecret when he said the PM of England was also the PM of Australia and the Commonwealth. 

Tell me thicko, as you say, the UK now has a new PM. Is he also the PM of Australia and the Commonwealth?