Ultimate Reality

Author: janesix

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Mopac
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@janesix
If you loved your brethren, you would lay down your life for the sake of Truth. 

If you can't be firm about this one thing, you have no solid foundation. Fighting me is worthless. Help these people recognize that The Ultimate Reality exists, or be counted among the unbelievers.




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@Polytheist-Witch
Blind you are.

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@Mopac
How can you be "firm" in anything? I don't believe you know any Truth. 
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@Castin
Think of it like choosing to ignore your father when he tells you to look both ways.  If you walk in front of a bus, That's reality.  Physics are not going to suddenly alter around you. Crossing God is like walking in front of a freight train, and it's not going to stop where it's scheduled to run.  Truth is not going to stop if you choose to reject the truth, and people who do seem to have a habit of ceasing to exist as we know it. It's nothing you can't handle, but it is what it is and there's no sense in choosing the hard way.  
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@Mopac
Bigot you are. 
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@janesix
What does my knowledge have to do with anything? 


You know The Truth exists, it is written on the hearts of all.

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@Mopac
What does my knowledge have to do with anything? 
You make claims of knowing what Truth is. Fess up to how you know. 


You know The Truth exists, it is written on the hearts of all.
Is it? Then why do so many don't know what the hell you are going on about?

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@janesix
To fulfill the scriptures.

Having eyes, they see not.

Having ears they hear not.

Having minds they understand not.


They have not the love of truth, so they are cursed with strong delusion. They worship and serve the creature rather than the creator, so they defile themselves.


I am not saying anything that anyone can not know. It is the cloudiness of their hearts that blinds them from what is truly evident.


The Ultimate Reality exists.

janesix
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@Mopac
I am assuming you are basing your "knowledge" on Biblical scriptures. 
Fallaneze
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The ultimate reality would be a state of consciousness where everything is felt and known.
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@janesix
Before there was writing, people knew The Ultimate Reality existed.


You don't know scriptures. Anything you do know was likely taught to you by heretics. My faith doesn't come from scriptures. 


If you were to burn all the scriptures and grind into meat every believer, The Ultimate Reality would still exist, and true knowledge of it could be obtained.


My knowledge has very little to do with your knowledge, and knowledge itself is not the same as The Truth.


The faith is in The Ultimate Reality, not knowledge.



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@Mopac
I doubt anyone can find Truth in our human forms. I'm sure hints of it can be found or figured out. That's about it.
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@janesix
You say these things not because you truly don't know. You say these things because you think you know better.

It is a false humility that really comes from pride. In the end, it won't serve you.

I hope you receive that word, and contemplate it.





janesix
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@Mopac
What God wants me to know, He will let me know. I am not fool enough to pretend that I DO know.
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@janesix
No disputing that.
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@Fallaneze
The ultimate reality would be a state of consciousness where everything is felt and known.

Bingo, now we're getting warmer. Flying under the radar are we? I was waiting for Mopac to begin to articulate this. This is true, this is the omnipresent nature of consciousness from the first Source and this state of consciousness pervades all of creation in every moment, we actually exist within the ocean of awareness which is the truest reality. In the moment, the Ultimate reality feels and knows everything. When we step down into creation into individualized forms and bodies what we perceive becomes our personal reality which is distinct from the "Ultimate reality".
How did you know that if I may ask? are you religious or spiritual?
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@EtrnlVw
@Fallaneze
I'm not sure I would call The Ultimate Reality a state of consciousness.

Could I say The Ultimate Reality feels and knows everything? Certainly.

The Ultimate Reality by nature must contain all other realities. If something is real, it isn't real apart from Ultimate Reality.





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@Mopac
I'm not sure I would call The Ultimate Reality a state of consciousness.

That is absolutely what it is, and what it is in all forms. That is actually what everything is, a state of conscious awareness experiencing through forms. The Ultimate reality is that state of consciousness which there is no form and there is no duality, it is where all of creation comes out of. It is in fact, an ultimate state of consciousness. That is awareness.
Could I say The Ultimate Reality feels and knows everything? Certainly.

But how? it was first aware, conscious of everything. That's a no-brainer. 

The Ultimate Reality by nature must contain all other realities. If something is real, it isn't real apart from Ultimate Reality.
Then how could you deny what I've written lol? come on man. The Ultimate reality is the state of consciousness which knows and experiences everything as it truly is, It transcends all of creation yet all of creation is within It. Even you don't know what the Ultimate reality is!



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@Mopac
I'm not sure I would call The Ultimate Reality a state of consciousness.

Did you know that you are a miniature version of the Ultimate reality (Creator)? the Creator is the Ultimate version of yourself, you reflect a version or type of the Ultimate. Everything you experience as reality, is first because you are conscious/aware of it. Likewise everything the Ultimate reality experiences is because It was first conscious of it and that is how anything can be known at all or experienced at all. To be known is to observe and observation cannot exist without consciousness, that is what it means to know or experience.
 It is basically the Ultimate observation point, you are a teeny tiny version of that observation point you come right out of the heart of God and can be nothing else. You think you vanish when your physical body dies but not so, the physical form and body does but consciousness can neither be created or destroyed. Energy exists because first awareness exists, energy is present with conscious activity and why it acts as intelligence.

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@Plisken
Preach that to the worshipers, I already know.
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@Mopac
Fighting me is worthless.
bwuahahahahahaha

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@Mopac
Your helical word salads always disappear up your Fundamental Passage.
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@EtrnlVw
I get what you are saying, I really do.

Yet I find it very difficult to call The Ultimate Reality a level of consciousness.

It almost sounds like a corruption of the concept of God consciousness, which refers to being mindful of God in all things. 


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@Mopac
Ironic that EtrnlVw is making a claim you feel is beyond human epistemology but he feels is obvious. Do not give in Mopac do not violate your epistemology further than your standard argument already does.

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@secularmerlin
There are things that can be known that you are not aware of being knowable, and that is because you, in your haughtiness, decided that you knew everything there is to know, and have shut yourself off from advancing any further.


Your agnosticism is a pretense for "I know better".



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@Mopac
There are things that can be known that you are not aware of being knowable

Ah the appeal to special knowledge fallacy. You really run the gamut for logical fallacies don't you. This has certainly been instructional in that sense. It has been most edifying to see all these fallacies being used first hand thank you.
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@secularmerlin
That isn't an appeal to special knowledge, wizard, it is an observation that makes a great deal of sense when it is understood that you can't even get off the fence about there being reality, let alone an Ultimate Reality.

I have made no extraordinary claims. You are reaching.
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@Mopac
I have said what I can without violating my epistemological limits.
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@secularmerlin
You constantly accuse me of making logical fallacies. Yet at the same time I very consistently assert that you don't really know what I'm talking about.

How do you reconcile this with your so called knowledge of epistemological limitations?

Maybe instead of adopting the attitude of "I know I don't know, I know I can't know, and I know no one can know, I know better.", you should adopt the attitude of "I don't know, maybe".

If you did this, you might even come to understand things. Right now, you tell me what I am saying, you tell me what I believe. When I try to correct you, there is resistance. Why? Because you have nothing to learn from me. If this is the case, why bother even having a discussion with me? If you have made up your mind and I see you as arrogant and foolish, what else is there?

If being right is so important to you, be righteouus about it.

Say, "I don't know, maybe"

And if you are going to try and refute what I believe, at least come to understand it first. You assume you know, so you don't learn. You don't understand as a result.

And my intent here is to do nothing but help you, I'm not trying to make myself feel smart, impress other people, or entertain myself. I am here to educate. As wild as that may seem, that is the truth. I don't enjoy arguing with people. Sometimes it feels like an exercise in masochism. But it is for the sake of love, a love that isn't likely to be understood, because it is my will that everyone come to knowledge of The Truth.

And that includes you. Not for my benefit, for I hve nothing to gain. But for your benefit.







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@Mopac
I don't kniw. Maybe. But it certainly seems like the things you claim to know are beyond human epistemology.