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@TheUnderdog
So, can you please define a woman now?
transgenderism
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@RationalMadman
The Antarctic Peninsula is west of the Atlantic and east of the Pacific. Your definition of the Americas can apply to it.
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@YouFound_Lxam
The APA is highly politicized and has been for a while now. I wouldn't recommend getting info, off there, given their facts don't line up with reality.
I don’t think the APA is politicized. Can you send me a non partisan scientific review site that agrees with you?
Americas: Two continents that contain, countries such as Brazil, Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, etc.
Defining the Americas in this manner is like me defining woman by stating the billions of women that are on this planet. If I were to do this, I could include the names of the transwomen.
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@TheUnderdog
I don’t think the APA is politicized. Can you send me a non partisan scientific review site that agrees with you?
Defining the Americas in this manner is like me defining woman by stating the billions of women that are on this planet. If I were to do this, I could include the names of the transwomen.
First of all, no you couldn't include the names of trans women, just like I wouldn't be able to include Great Britian in my definition of Americas.
I have provided my definition, so stop dodging the question, and define a woman. If you can't do that, then you have already lost.
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@YouFound_Lxam
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/capital-research-center/ states that website has a right bias.
I have provided my definition, so stop dodging the question, and define a woman.
I’m saying your definition isn’t good. If it was acceptable to define with a list, I could define woman as the billions of women that are on this planet.
I define a woman as anyone that is a cis woman or trans woman. You don’t have to define the smaller terms to define the bigger term, just like you don’t have to define North America to define the Americas.
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@TheUnderdog
The Antarctic Peninsula is west of the Atlantic and east of the Pacific. Your definition of the Americas can apply to it.
No it's south of both and I'm not sure why you are changing the topic. I can literally add 'barring Antarctica' to my definition if that was needed and instantly handle your nonsense.
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@TheUnderdog
I define a woman as anyone that is a cis woman or trans woman. You don’t have to define the smaller terms to define the bigger term, just like you don’t have to define North America to define the Americas.
So, your definition of a woman is anyone who is a cis woman or trans woman.
You are still using a circular definition.
You are defining a woman as anyone who is a cis woman or trans woman.
You can't use the same word you are trying to define as a definition.
All you have to do, is define the word woman, without using the word woman.
It isn't a trick question; it is not that hard to do.
35 days later
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@YouFound_Lxam
Trans men are still women, and Trans woman are still men.Cis men are still men, and Cis women are still women.
And you are still making this tired old argument? How about you give some sources and facts instead of pulling this out of no where? Trans men ARE men and trans women ARE women. If you had passed highschool social studies and not working a mcdonalds job at 14 you would have known that and I wouldn't be arguing with a brick wall right now.
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@YouFound_Lxam
No, there are still two biological sexes. If you are going to go against basic biology, then that just proves how wrong your thinking on this topic is. In the case of intersex people, they still have either XX or XY chromosomes, telling the doctors which gender/sex they are. And usually, they have identifiable characteristics, to tell the doctors what sex they really are. And even then, the intersex community only makes up less than 0.5% of the world population.Also, to be a different biological sex that male or female, you would have to show different traits completely different than male or female. Like for instance if someone says they are both a male and a female, they will have to have the capability of impregnation, and getting pregnant, which hasn't existed ever in human history.
No there are people with more than 2 chromosomes. Genetics is complex and you cannot possibly comprehend it with you 8th grade knowledge.
Also you do realise 0.5% of 8 billion people is still a lot?
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@BigBuffMan
And you are still making this tired old argument? How about you give some sources and facts instead of pulling this out of no where? Trans men ARE men and trans women ARE women. If you had passed highschool social studies and not working a mcdonalds job at 14 you would have known that and I wouldn't be arguing with a brick wall right now.
Ok then.
Why do you have to put the word trans in front of it?
If Trans men are really men, then why do you have to add the word Trans to it? Wouldn't you just call them men? Same question with Trans women.
No there are people with more than 2 chromosomes. Genetics is complex and you cannot possibly comprehend it with you 8th grade knowledge.Also you do realise 0.5% of 8 billion people is still a lot?
Well, it's actually more like 0.018% but hey, who's counting?
And if you do the "8th" grade math, then that would come out to:
1,440,000 people, which granted, is a lot, but is still way less than most states in the U.S.
So, comparing that to the whole world population is insane.
Even with this argument, it proves no purpose to the trans argument, because to be transgender, means to transition from one gender to another, not be born with different characteristics.
You're comparing a mutation, to humans having the ability to change their biological sex.
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@TheUnderdog
I’m saying your definition isn’t good. If it was acceptable to define with a list, I could define woman as the billions of women that are on this planet.I define a woman as anyone that is a cis woman or trans woman. You don’t have to define the smaller terms to define the bigger term, just like you don’t have to define North America to define the Americas.
My definition of a woman is not good?
How is:
A Biological Adult Human Female, not good?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Can you help me understand why "definition of a woman" is such an important thing to you personally and apparently to society as a whole? What happens if you have a definition that doesn't match with current usage, let's say. What happens (a) in your life and (b) in society that we should all be contemplating our gender definitions as much as you apparently are?
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@YouFound_Lxam
A Biological Adult Human Female, not good?
Is Marjorie Taylor Greene a woman? She is transgender and she is beloved my many Republican idiots.
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@ludofl3x
Can you help me understand why "definition of a woman" is such an important thing to you personally and apparently to society as a whole? What happens if you have a definition that doesn't match with current usage, let's say. What happens (a) in your life and (b) in society that we should all be contemplating our gender definitions as much as you apparently are?
Because society runs on language.
Language has words and words have meanings/definitions.
When someone is trying to change the definition of one of the most simple words in the english language, then yea, that is a problem, and could lead to a lot more worse ones.
Is Marjorie Taylor Greene a woman? She is transgender and she is beloved my many Republican idiots.
Uhhhhh......did you even google search, or did you just pull a name out of a hat?
She is very anti-trans.
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@YouFound_Lxam
When someone is trying to change the definition of one of the most simple words in the english language, then yea, that is a problem, and could lead to a lot more worse ones.
Please explain why this is a problem and what are the "worse" problems it could really lead to, though. Language changes so much over time, and society still seems to function. If we decide that the word "woman" is something that someone applies to themselves, rather than one that society requires, what exactly happens?
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@YouFound_Lxam
You are defining a woman as anyone who is a cis woman or trans woman.You can't use the same word you are trying to define as a definition.
It’s like defining the Dakotas as North Dakota and South Dakota.
How is:A Biological Adult Human Female, not good?
Define a female.
I think there would be cases where we need to know exactly who we're dealing with. For example, a physician that is examining a tranny with peeing issues, the doctor should know if it's a cis or a trans in orden to cast a prostate problem out.
See?
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@ludofl3x
Please explain why this is a problem and what are the "worse" problems it could really lead to, though. Language changes so much over time, and society still seems to function. If we decide that the word "woman" is something that someone applies to themselves, rather than one that society requires, what exactly happens?
Humans communicate through words.
Words have destinct deffinitions.
If we can't agree on deffinitions.
Then we are going to have a harder time communicating.
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@TheUnderdog
It’s like defining the Dakotas as North Dakota and South Dakota.
Well do you want the actual definition of the word Dakota, or the deffinition of the two states of Dakota.
As long as I can define what the word Dakota is, then I can use North and South Dakota, to define: Dakota's.
It's the same thing as saying:
Define states for me.
I could name off all the states and it would be valid.
But if you were to ask me what is a state, then I would have to provide a more detailed deffinition.
So if your asking how to define the two states of Dakota, then I would say:
It is two states in the USA, with the names: North Dakota, and South Dakota.
Define a female.
"of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes:"
Oxford Dictionary.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Humans communicate through words.Words have destinct deffinitions.If we can't agree on deffinitions.Then we are going to have a harder time communicating.
Humans DO communicate through words...there are currently more than 7,000 sets of unique languages spoken around the world. How many have the exact same word for "woman"? Hm, yet we still seem to function as a species!
And is ease of communication really the issue you're worried about? How many times a day do you say the word "woman" when it's not in the context of an argument about how you want to know what everyone's got in their pants? I can tell you I go weeks without saying "woman" and I live with two. Somehow I don't think this is the hill you're trying to die on. When you do say it, do you find the people in your life are really like THAT confused as to what you're talking about? Like do you say "Look at that woman, she's got an interesting jacket on" and the person you're with is like "WAIT, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SAYING!?!? WHAT DOES THAT WORD MEAN AND WHO AM I SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT?!?!?!?"
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@ludofl3x
So, to clarify, gaslighting someone for finding it important put aside, what is a woman?
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@RationalMadman
I'm not trying to gaslight anyone. I'm asking why it's important. What problems it causes if the definition changes. I literally spend zero time in my days thinking about how I define woman, this is just a rhetorical game with no right answer. A person has the right to identify themselves however they want, it's really not that hard to understand. So my definition of a woman might not match someone else's, but that goes for literally hundreds of words. "Ace" is the first one that comes to mind: there's at least four definitions that are absolutely distinct from one another, why does no one care about how we use this word?
Sure, there are instances in which genitalia are practically important, but this isn't one of them. Can you help me understand why this is an important one? Because it's it's just an "ease of communication" issue, then I'd probably worry more about harmonizing 7000 unique languages into one before I worried about a handful of words in just one of these languages.
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@ludofl3x
Humans DO communicate through words...there are currently more than 7,000 sets of unique languages spoken around the world. How many have the exact same word for "woman"? Hm, yet we still seem to function as a species!
Ok smart ass.
Yes, we have many different languages, and different words for woman, but all of those different words mean the same thing. The word Ich in German means the same thing as the word I in English.
The word woman in English should mean the same thing as the word Frau in German.
And is ease of communication really the issue you're worried about? How many times a day do you say the word "woman" when it's not in the context of an argument about how you want to know what everyone's got in their pants?
Oh, I don't know, how about, when doctors have to identify the sex/gender of their patients, or when investigators have to identify the sex/gender of their victims.
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@ludofl3x
What problems it causes if the definition changes.
Sure, let's just start changing the definitions of words, because that will work out great in court systems and society.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Sure, let's just start changing the definitions of words, because that will work out great in court systems and society.
This is exactly what I'm asking: what happens that's so terrible in court systems and societies if a person who was born with female genitalia decides they identify as a male? Where exactly is the first loose thread of society that inevitably leads to our Last of Us-esque dystopia?
And for all of those 7000 languages, there are many, many, many words that do not have direct matches in English. Including many in German. This has not caused The Purge yet, is there reason to believe that there's some consequence here besides my frustration with all of the Scandinavian alphabets and their weird marks on letters?
Oh, I don't know, how about, when doctors have to identify the sex/gender of their patients, or when investigators have to identify the sex/gender of their victims.
If you go to an obgyn and you mark down "male" on your intake form, what exactly does it prohibit the doctor from doing in terms of providing medical care?
When investigators have to identify the genders of their victims (assuming, mister language precision, you don't mean the victims of the investigators, but rather the victims of crimes, because your sentence here says victims of investigators)...can they mark "biological sex" down for those who are deceased, and consult the victim themselves if they're alive? What happens?
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@ludofl3x
My reason is different to some.
I see the queer movement as an antithesis of the trans movement that had to accidentally ally each other due to shared enemies and being a minority.
The queer movement pushes for no reason to ever call a masculine woman or girl a 'he' or vice versa ever call a feminine guy a 'she'. They either support they/them pronouns or they advocate that a woman is a woman no matter how masculine your conformist minds perceives her and vice versa.
The trans movement lets people with many mental disorders and self-loathing often amongst them, to then escape their problems by playing the role of another gender purely as they felt a bit masc or fem on top of their other deviations from the supposed norm. It even at its extreme end of the spectrum says mutilation of one's genitalia and/or breasts would be okay if he or she (not they, see how that works?) Feels they have to experience that to be happy.
The easiest way to prove that the queer movement is the original and the trans is the mutated deviation is to ask what a woman is. It forces them to admit they are antithetical. Queers can easily define a (cis) woman, trans cannot define it without being queerphobic.
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@RationalMadman
I appreciate you laying out your own take on it, I'm not sure I understand it enough to agree or disagree with it, but it still doesn't rise to the level of the complete downfall of civilization, which is the level of import some types seem to put on it. I'm also not sure what your actual exposure to real gay and transgender people might be. I don't think transgender = mental illness. Are you saying you don't mind gay people, but do mind people presenting themselves as the other gender?
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@ludofl3x
And for all of those 7000 languages, there are many, many, many words that do not have direct matches in English.
But they at least mean the basic same thing. You can translate a sentence in English to German, and vice versa, yes?
So, we have a common understanding of words.
When you start to change the definitions of words, then that poses worldwide issues.
When investigators have to identify the genders of their victims (assuming, mister language precision, you don't mean the victims of the investigators, but rather the victims of crimes, because your sentence here says victims of investigators)...can they mark "biological sex" down for those who are deceased, and consult the victim themselves if they're alive? What happens?
Are you that dull?
Three letters:
DNA
If all the investigators have is DNA, and they are trying to match it to a suspect, and that suspect identifies as the opposite gender, then it's going to be very difficult to find them, yes?
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@ludofl3x
I do not have a religion personally. I am pretty much what they call a Deist, with Pagan and Taoist influence.
To me, there is nothing inherently wrong about playing out the gender role attached to a biological sex you were not assigned at birth. The only way to do that coherently is to admit you are against the people who say that we cannot define women and to instead define it as the cookie cutter feminine things that you either want to mimic or wish to avoid.
If you do not believe gender is binary, you should have absolutely no reason to need biological hormones to mimic the biological sex attached to the rigid gender role you wish to roleplay as 24/7.
Saying what I just said here with my real name attached can ruin my life. That is why people are up in arms about it. They are reacting to a fascist regime that wishes to blackmail acceptance and use of pronouns and hormones plus consensual mutilations that run completely against not only heteronormative religious believers but the very queer and/or liberal movement they think they are allied with.