Always consider the source of our information.
...."Black people were 24% of those killed by police in 2022 despite being only 13% of the population. "...
Police Killings Rise Sharply 2022
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@Dr.Franklin
How do you determine "Black" Doc?
On the skin tone scale, how far does the pointer have to slide for someone to classified as black.
Does the Black range, start at very light brown/swarthy for example.
At what point does the pointer flicker between the Black and White.
I would suggest that you actually base your discrimination on certain other factors of perceivable difference, and not just skin tone.
Discrimination by the way is not a criticism, discrimination is just a natural response to incoming sensory signals. We do it all the time.
Discrimination is a useful tool to have. It's how one tells the difference between a demented axe murderer and a jolly lumberjack.
Top of the morning Doc.
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@Best.Korea
How do you determine "Black" Doc?
..."Research indicates that the concept of “five races” does, to an extent,
describe the way human populations are distributed among the
continents—but the lines between races are much more blurred than ancestry testing companies would have us believe (Figure 1B) "...
Killings by police have risen irregardless of race. Population has risen also so that is one factor of many.
The facts can be relatively simple. The factors behind those factors can be complex to decipher, to some degree or another.
I think you would have to look at death by percentage after contact. Police make more contact with black folks.
I would say the biggest indicator of how at risk you are for being shot by a police officer, has to do with how much you resist arrest.
When you look at contact with police and adjust the stats for that here is the groups most likely to be killed by police.
1. Native American
2. Whites
3. Blacks
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@WyIted
I would say the biggest indicator of how at risk you are for being shot by a police officer, has to do with how much you resist arrest
That always seemed apparrent to me. However, i'm white average, middle class male and not been repeatedly hassled by police for minor stuff repeatedly, as may happen in some communities more, because of race and police know there likely to find drugs --even if primarily grass--- etc.
I lived with friend in Chicago for a few months, and I made improper left turn --sign above said no left turns at this intersection---, so policeman looks at my license, --from out of state--- and says my license is invalid. WTF. The date is fine not expired and everything is fine. So they say you need to follow us to the station an they have my license with them, not me.
Thank god this is daytime and I'm white. So I follow there we go in the give my license to the man behind large desk --like you see on the old cop show--- and he says the computer says you license is invalid. WTF! The date and everything on my license is valid!
So they give me a court date, for the left turn or driving on invalid license ---I forget now--- and four monts later, I have to come back from my state to Chicago, courtroom, and they call me to Judges desk, and one man comes over to judge and says something into the judge's ear, and the judge says to me, charges dismissed, pay the clerk $10. court fee on your way out.
Thank god I am not the type who would blow furiously of off the handle at such fucking nonsense! Chicago at that time was known as the city that works, mayor Daleys machine that works like a clock and no graffitee on their commuter trains.
Thank god I am not the type who would blow furiously of off the handle at such fucking nonsense! Chicago at that time was known as the city that works, mayor Daleys machine that works like a clock and no graffitee on their commuter trains.
I tell you what, thank god i'm white. Ive had a a few other encounters with police and none as bad as that, but they all could have gone sour, if I were not white, didnt have kids in car with more my wife with me. One Chicago cop told me, if it werent for the 5 kids I had in car with me, he would haul my butt to the police station for making a U-turn.
My advice to all is, do not live in Chicago or any big city.
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@ebuc
i'm white average, middle class male and not been repeatedly hassled by police for minor stuff repeatedly, as may happen in some communities more, because of race
Why do you think the type of broken windows policing you are describing would specifically target minority communities because of race and not the more sensible reasoning being that members of those communities are more likely to be victimized and need more police presence?
they call me to Judges desk, and one man comes over to judge and says something into the judge's ear, and the judge says to me, charges dismissed, pay the clerk $10. court fee on your way out.
Sounds like a computer error. Happens all the time.
I tell you what, thank god i'm white. Ive had a a few other encounters with police and none as bad as that, but they all could have gone sour, if I were not white, didnt have kids in car with more my wife with me.
Most encounters with police regardless of race end up how you claim. Had you behaved like many people who get shot by police do it could have ended up worse, but it sounds like you behaved civilly.
One Chicago cop told me, if it werent for the 5 kids I had in car with me, he would haul my butt to the police station for making a U-turn.
That's because of the license coming up invalid, which many times means it's a fake ID. A common ploy by people with serious warrants to disguise who they are. The cop took it easy on you, probably because of the kids not because of your skin color.
My advice to all is, do not live in Chicago or any big city.
Blue cities tend to be a pain in the ass that way. I agree with the advice, but I usually end up living in major cities anyway.
Did you notice how native Americans were the most disproportionately to be shot by police?
This is the 21st century. There is almost zero bigotry to native Americans. Wouldn't a more sensible thing to conclude be that native Americans are more likely to see police as an invading force and be uncooperative? It's not a conspiracy to genocide indians. Nor is it a conspiracy theory to genocide whites who are more likely to be shot in police interactions than blacks once you adjust the statistics for shootings per interaction
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@WyIted
Why do you think the type of broken windows policing you are describing would specifically target minority communities because of race and not the more sensible reasoning being that members of those communities are more likely to be victimized and need more police presence?
I didnt say anthing about "police presence". Your off on a seperate tangent.
Sounds like a computer error. Happens all the time.
The eyes dont lie. The license was valid visually and should have gone no further. Period
Most encounters with police regardless of race end up how you claim. Had you behaved like many people who get shot by police do it could have ended up worse, but it sounds like you behaved civilly.
No one has a an accruate record of all police interactions. Over last several years more vid coverage makes clear what people of color have been tellings us for 100's of years. Your in denial of what any fair minded, intelligent and inform people are aware of.
One Chicago cop told me, if it werent for the 5 kids I had in car with me, he would haul my butt to the police station for making a U-turn.
That's because of the license coming up invalid, which many times means it's a fake ID. A common ploy by people with serious warrants to disguise who they are. The cop took it easy on you, probably because of the kids not because of your skin color.
NOpe, this is differrent incident involving U-turn not the ' no left-turn at intersection.
Blue cities tend to be a pain in the ass that way. I agree with the advice, but I usually end up living in major cities anyway.
Let me clarify on specifics, dont live in big city poorer neigbor hoods unless your Mother Teresa or like-minded nuns who also drive cars.
Did you notice how native Americans were the most disproportionately to be shot by police?
Yes. But was most of that in big cities? I doubt that. I dunno. Indians have always gotten the worst of the white oppression. They are just not as many of them in most cities and so they are not as medial worthy being a minority, on reservations or country side more.
This
is the 21st century. There is almost zero bigotry to native Americans.
Huh? Not sure where you getting your info from. It sounds false.
Wouldn't a more sensible thing to conclude be that native Americans are more likely to see police as an invading force and be uncooperative?
If there drunk with attitude, yes.
It's not a conspiracy to genocide indians.
I stated nothing about "conspiracy " ergo, you again have gone off and even more irrelevant tangent, to my comments. My thoughts about you as right-wing are panning out.
Nor is it a conspiracy theory to genocide whites who are more likely to be shot in police interactions than blacks once you adjust the statistics for shootings per interaction.
I dont have nor read all of the statistics. I would place you lower on the people I would trust with such information in around all of the above, not just one particular set of considerations
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@ebuc
I didnt say anthing about "police presence". Your off on a seperate tangent.
Below where you mention police interactions are more common in some areas
not been repeatedly hassled by police for minor stuff repeatedly, as may happen in some communities more
---
The eyes dont lie. The license was valid visually and should have gone no further. Period
Also while we are at it, cashiers should not use counterfeit pens on large bills since things are always precisely what they look like and zero people commit fraud
I stated nothing about "conspiracy " ergo, you again have gone off and even more irrelevant tangent, to my comments. My thoughts about you as right-wing are panning out.
Repeat what premises I clarified of yours before stating that so you can see why I equated the conclusions you drew from your premises was silly.
- I dont have nor read all of the statistics. I would place you lower on the people I would trust with such information in around all of the above, not just one particular set of considerations
It's the first result on Google. You should have read all of these studies I am citing off the top of my head before forming a conclusion to make sure ideology doesn't guide you coming up with convenient rationalizations
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1903856116
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@WyIted
I didnt say anthing about "police presence". Your off on a seperate tangent.
Below where you mention police interactions are more common in some areas
Again, I did not say anything about "police presence" and certainly not in context you did. Your playing mind games.
not been repeatedly hassled by police for minor stuff repeatedly, as may happen in some communities more
Yeah, not relevant to your comments " police presence " and that context of you comment. You were off on a tangent then and still are.
Also while we are at it, cashiers should not use counterfeit pens on large bills since things are always precisely what they look like and zero people commit fraud
So now your implying that the police may have thought I had invalid because it was a false document. WTF? This is like out some movie where the hitman or James Bond has all these false documents to use for various situations.
I was in old car, in unfamiliar area, and made simple error of not seeing the 'no left turn ' sign. This was police error visual all the way till the charge me $10. court fee and all of my travel time loss and costs.
Do you always want to make amends for police error --regardless of how bad---?
Do you always want to make amends for police error --regardless of how bad---?
Repeat what premises I clarified of yours before stating that so you can see why I equated the conclusions you drew from your premises was silly.
Huh? Your off on tangents of conspiracy. Not what i was talking about.
It's the first result on Google. You should have read all of these studies I am citing off the top of my head before forming a conclusion to make sure ideology doesn't guide you coming up with convenient rationalizations
Top of Google does not make it accurrate or inaccurate info. Go back and read first comment by me in this thread. Consider the source always.
I dont want to deal with your type much Wylted. You have an agenda that is less about truth, logic, common sense and ciritical thinking, than I prefer to engage with for very long. Typical of most republican conservative types
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@ebuc
While this is from 2016, the stats are pretty consistent for each year regarding less than 1.5% of black males (of their roughly 6% of the total population) committing over 50% of ALL violent person crimes.
Yes, they do.
More stats demonstrating black males commit more than 50% of violent crimes and being overrepresented in other criminal statistics.
Cops are more than 19x more likely to be shot AND KILLED by an armed black male than blacks being shot (and not necessarily killed) by police at a rate of 3x.
Blacks are at higher risk of being killed/murdered by another black than by a cop.
Cops go where the crime is, not where it is not. The more any one group is overrepresented in a particular crime (or crimes), the more police contacts they will have. And given the fact that black males are clearly violent, they often feel entitled to resist/fight arrest with police, which ends up getting them killed by their doing.
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@ebuc
@WyIted
> @ebuci'm white average, middle class male and not been repeatedly hassled by police for minor stuff repeatedly, as may happen in some communities more, because of raceWhy do you think the type of broken windows policing you are describing would specifically target minority communities because of race and not the more sensible reasoning being that members of those communities are more likely to be victimized and need more police presence?
> ebuc: I didnt say anthing about "police presence". Your off on a seperate tangent.Again, I did not say anything about "police presence" and certainly not in context you did. Your playing mind games.
No, he is not. You are just not comprehending what he said; and what he said was spot on point. You cherry picking the term “police presence” is what is throwing you off.
Look at what you said: repeatedly hassled by police for minor stuff repeatedly, as may happen in some communities more, because of race
If there is no police present within “some communities,” then how else can they (police) “hassle” members of those communities “because of race”? There has to be a presence, and a police presence is suppose to be a deterrent to flagrant criminal activity (it is precisely why Stop n Frisk worked in NYC in reducing flagrant criminal activity; the police presence kept it at bay).
Minorities are not HASSLED by police. Police being proactive in looking for criminals (e.g. Ted Bundy was caught during a traffic stop) and potentially stopping crimes before they happen (e.g. Terry v Ohio) is what they are charged with in maintaining law and order in America’s communities of ALL races, ethnicities, etc.
And if a certain group of a certain racial persuasion are overrepresented in criminal activities, well, again, cops go where the crime is not where it is not. They look for the “usual suspects” (especially those already known to them as repeat offenders), which includes getting tickets (even parking tickets), contacted (stop n frisk), and followed (with proper PC).
What Wylted brought up was a correct observation, your obfuscation of it with the “police presence” rebuttal is pure nonsense.