How to read the Bible - Guide for beginners

Author: Best.Korea

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@Stephen
Hm...your comment on matthew is interesting, but God never said He would be like a Gjinn and grant wishes. 

Looking at other parts of the Bible, Jesus',s teachings, & Jewish traditions - we should be able to examine that the passage you reference is about spiritual gain. 

Although there are no explicit examples given within the same passage, there are many passages that give example as to what should not be included in prayer, like wealth, objects, people, etc. 



The final passage we should consider occurs when the disciples ask how the fig tree withered so quickly. Jesus replies,
Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and never doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, “Be taken up and cast into the sea,” it will be done. And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith (Matt. 21:21-21; cf. Mark 11:22-24, Luke 17:6).
This is essentially the same point we saw with the failed exorcism: it doesn’t matter the size of what you’re asking for, because God has the power to do anything. And Jesus puts the matter positively, saying that “whatever you ask” will be received.
But there is an unstated assumption that Jesus expects us to understand—that what we ask is in accordance with God’s will.
First-century Jews knew that not every prayer request is something God wills, and God’s will is the controlling factor.
Appears prayer is more about expressing faith in God's will instead of wishing for our will. 

The story of the biblical Jesus and his failed mission. 
Uh. And you are refering to other people who claimed to be a messiah & launched rebellions or the expectation jewsish people had during/around the time of Jesus ?  

Pretty sure there are parts where Jesus claimed he would not act as a war god. "give to ceaser what is ceasar's," or something like that. 

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@hey-yo
But there is an unstated assumption that Jesus expects us to understand—that what we ask is in accordance with God’s will.
First-century Jews knew that not every prayer request is something God wills, and God’s will is the controlling factor.
Appears prayer is more about expressing faith in God's will instead of wishing for our will. 

Doesn't this raise the question of why bother praying for anything at all? If it's in his will already, then what good does praying for it do? If it isn't in his will, then praying for it is pointless, right?
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@Best.Korea
Pray for yourself. 
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@hey-yo


hey-yo,

YOUR BIBLE STUPIDITY IS WITHOUT BOUNDS QUOTE:  "Hm...your comment on matthew is interesting, but God never said He would be like a Gjinn and grant wishes. "

As usual, you are WRONG again, where Jesus as god does grant wishes, where do you want to call Him a LIAR in the following passages?:

"Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mark 11:24)

"If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you." (John 15:7)

"Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it." (John 14:13-14)


Hey-yo, seriously, isn't it about time that you go to a Christian Children's Forum where your Bible ignorance won't be noticed that much?

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@TWS1405_2
Pray for yourself. 
Actually, I pray for everyone, including my enemies.

"Love your enemies"

"that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."

So yes, the Bible commands to love everyone and hence, to pray for everyone.
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@hey-yo
Stephen and brotherd.thomas are atheists who regularly mock the Bible.
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@Best.Korea


Best.Korea,

YOUR UNGODLY QUOTE: "Stephen and brotherd.thomas are atheists who regularly mock the Bible."

How dare you call me an Atheist!  Where obviously you have never encountered a TRUE Christian before like myself, where I have forgotten more about the Bible than you will ever learn from it in your lifetime!  

Jesus' true words and I literally OWN your Bible ignorance and stupidity, and will continue to do so at your expense, understood Bible fool?

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@hey-yo

“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. Matthew7:7-8

Probably the most cruel lie ever to be written.

How come you say this is a lie?

Here you go. 


Hm...your comment on matthew is interesting, but God never said He would be like a Gjinn and grant wishes. 
Agreed. I am not the highlighting Disneyland wishes. So  please stop being so ignorant and patronising.
What I am highlighting are prayers going unanswered  . 

“the parents believe healing comes from God and that they never expected their daughter to die as they prayed for her and summoned others to do the same”.

A central Wisconsin couple who prayed rather than seeking medical care for their 11-year-old dying daughter were sentenced to six months in jail and 10 years probation in the girl's death. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/oct/07/couple-sentenced-daughter-prayer-death

December 14 2019.
Church attempts resurrection of a dead two year old child, through Prayer
“We have a precedent” said Pastor Bill, “Jesus raised the dead”.
He said “there was no time limit on how much longer the prayers and singing would continue, but added that the child remained at the county coroner's office”.

Interesting that Jesus also commanded any one that followed him to:
“Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give”. Matthew 10:7-8 .
They appear to have done everything by the book too:

“'Since that night, and at the continued request of the Heiligenthal family, Bethel Church has hosted prayer and worship gatherings which consist of singing and prayer,' the church said in a statement”.

Interesting it is that the bible informs its adherents to continue praying! And to “never give up”. Luke 18.

The baby’s funeral was eventually held December22.
What happened here ? “Ye of little faith ”or the wrong faith?

It appears that the only thing “raised” during this whole sad sorry saga was $62,000 (“unforeseen expenses” don’t you know) via a GoFundMe page. I can hear Pastor Bill sermonising Acts 2:45 as I write.

Members of the Followers of Christ Church whose members rely on prayer and had prayed for their sick new born baby instead of taking her to the hospital are charged with murder. “The infant died just hours after she was born”. This couple was expecting twins, one had already died at birth and they prayed to god and Jesus that the other would survive. It didn’t.
“Dale and Shannon HIckman, were convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to six years in prison for the death of their new born infant.”

In all of three cases (and many more) every single religious grieving parent was denied what they asked for in their payers.





Appears prayer is more about expressing faith in God's will instead of wishing for our will. 
Is it.?  Why would a devout Christian need to pray for faith?  Doesn't Jesus know those of his flock that are genuinely faithful and devout?  


The story of the biblical Jesus and his failed mission. 
Uh. And you are refering to other people who claimed to be a messiah & launched rebellions or the expectation jewsish people had during/around the time of Jesus ?  
Nope.


Pretty sure there are parts where Jesus claimed he would not act as a war god. "give to ceaser what is ceasar's," or something like that. 

You don't know your bible too well do you? 






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@zedvictor4
There you go Trade, off interpreting  again.

Just as I did.

there's nothing wrong with interpreting, so long as you are doing it correctly.  I just laugh everytime I see you attempting to interpret. Imagine if scientists took the same approach as you did, the world would be in chaos. Which incidentally,  is why we have so many different denominations in religion and so many different types of atheists. 


Some might even say that death is the inevitability of life relative to innate programming.
Death is inevitable without the key to life. 

And some might further say that sin is a concept relative to the species ability to over think.
Yes some people ignore the idea of sin, since it is to personal. And requires them to actually think and take responsibility.  We can't have that can we? 

And further still, some might suggest that love is an overused word, relative to any pleasant response to a sensory stimulus.
I think love is overused and misunderstood.  This doesn't however mean it is not true. 

Does every living organism die because of sin?
Yes.  but not because of their own personal sin, but because of the sin caused by humans.  Hey that is the thesis of our most wonderful scientists too, isn't it? they might not call it sin, just greed, selfishness, vengeance, etc, the whole world will die because of humans.  And if the consensus of human scientists think this - can they be wrong? 



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@Tradesecret
As long as you are doing it correctly.
For sure, but who is doing it correctly.

We all assume that we are,

And that includes you Trade.

No real answers currently available though.


And the life sustaining ability of Planet Earth will inevitably end one day.

Though whether or not we will have escaped this Earthly prison in our current form, will depend upon the application of science.

Rather than the reinterpretation of old Middle Eastern folk tales. 

My opinions of course.


And don't forget that there are a whole load of tough little critters who have the potential to out live Homo-sapiens without even thinking about it.

No sin or love required.

GOD principle maybe.


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@ludofl3x
Good question 

The word prayer or pray is old english. Refers to communication which is why shakespear plays have people saying "pray" to each other despite them not actually praying to each other in todays context. 

Prayer are means to comminicate which is important for any relationship.  
Also, it applies the seek part to seek and you shall find. If we do not pray or attempt some communication with God, then we are not seeking. 

Although God does not work like a gjinn, prayers can be aswered. Unfortunately we compare this to "answer it my way." Where a personal wish can be granted. Instead what is offered is spiritual gain and in some cases miracles. Where an action or desire is accomplished. However, I stress this is not always going to be what the person expects. 

For ex: I have a cousin who wishes to rekindle his relationship with his father. There is barrier there and the cousin is scared. They are praying to God to know when is a good time to start rekindling the relationship. But God might be saying do not wait, go do it now and I will be with you- or the father may pass before the relationship heals on earth and there may be healing after the fact because a learned fact or realization that could not happen when father was alive. Therefore making rekindling of relationship in heaven. 


Tradition stresses we should be open to the answer which sometimes can be no because it will help you more. 
Stephen
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@hey-yo
Where a personal wish can be granted. Instead what is offered is spiritual gain and in some cases miracles. #41


You must have missed this; 
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@Stephen


Stephen,

ANOTHER MISS TRADESECRET UPDATE WHERE SHE SLAPS JESUS IN THE FACE BECAUSE OF HER BIBLE STUPIDITY AGAIN! 


MISS TRADESECRET QUOTE: "there's nothing wrong with interpreting, so long as you are doing it correctly."

WTF!   How can Miss Tradesecret subjectively interpret Jesus' direct and literal words correctly?  Since there're so many DIVISIONS of Christianity, how does one "interpret" which one is the correct one to begin with?


Furthermore, Miss Tradesecret once again is going directly against Jesus' words when she ungodly says "that there is nothing wrong in interpreting the scriptures" to begin with, whereas these passages says MISS TRADESECRET IS WRONG AGAIN!:

"Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. (2 Peter 1:20)

"As he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures." (2 Peter3:16)

" For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. (2 Timothy 4:3-4)


Stephen, I have to ask you a serious question, do you think that  Miss Tradesecret is being Bible stupid on purpose to keep herself being the #1 Bible ignorant and stupid fool upon this Religion forum?  Correcting her outright Bible mistakes is becoming a full time job!

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@BrotherD.Thomas
Stephen, I have to ask you a serious question, do you think that  Miss Tradesecret is being Bible stupid on purpose to keep herself being the #1 Bible ignorant and stupid fool upon this Religion forum?

No, Brother. The Reverend Tradesecret  really is a bible dunce.
I pity those poor university students that he claims to charge for tutoring as I do his congregation of over 300 worshipers.



hey-yo
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@BrotherD.Thomas
I simply put all pieces together like “Not my will, your will be done” (Mark 14:36). 
Jesus gave examples for how to pray including prayers where we pray for something. All adhere to God's will first. 
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Lol not only have you misquoted but you suggest no one should undertake your own words as to what is or is not in the bible. 
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@Stephen
1. In all of three cases (and many more) every single religious grieving parent was denied what they asked for in their payers. 

I already said not all prayers are answered in the way a person wants it to. I, personally, dont see how anyone can manage their own emotions or develop maturity, or develop spiritually if every problem or situation is solved by a snap of the fingures.  That is not the world we live in. 

As a parent who has lost a child, I grieve with those parents. I will not assume nor promote an unhealthy living condition in which people think prayers deal with a gjinn because humans can get it wrong. 

Thank brotherD for highlighting how humans might have error in their own (and his own) understanding of the Bible. Unfortunate to have to grieve in such a way. 

2. Why would a devout Christian need to pray for faith? .

I said expression. To express faith one prays. 

However, one praying for faith is not unheard of. The answer as to why is personal and carries no weight on what is or is not. Only that they might feel error or struggle in something. Which is ok.  

3. You don't know your bible too well do you? 
I never claimed to be perfect and am ok with not knowing everythig about the bible.  My personal knowledge does not change what God is or is not. 

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@zedvictor4
As long as you are doing it correctly.
For sure, but who is doing it correctly.

We all assume that we are, 

And that includes you Trade.
There are schools of thought on this, Zed.  Perhaps if you did some study you might realise this and learn something. 

The Roman Catholics believe that the interpretation of the Scriptures belongs to the Church, namely Rome, and its scholars. Whatever the Church says the Bible says is what the Bible says.  

The Orthodox Christians hold to a similar view. Whatever the Orthodox Church teaches the bible says - the bible says. 

Historically, the Roman Catholics, from the West, hold to a literal understanding of the language in the bible. Not a genre of literalism - in the sense of modern fundamentalists, but literal in the sense that - words have a real meaning that can be understood in the context and that more than one person can arrive at the meaning of the word. 

The Orthodox, from the East, held to an interpretation that was more allegorical. Actually, they had what we might consider layers of interpretation. The basic literal meaning. A moralistic meaning. A spiritual meaning. An allegorical meaning. It was this latter one which has come to have more significance. Understandings of words came about by some kind of "mystical secret knowledge".  Only the initiated or the paramount scholar could understand the text.

The Protestants, Luther and Knox and Calvin, derived from the Western position and so - held to the idea that words were literal and could be understood. Again, it was not literal in the sense of how fundamentalists understand it today. they did not see literalism as a genre. Yet they rejected the idea that the church interpreted the meaning of what the bible was saying.  They held to the view that the bible came from God, and was not put together by the church. Rather, God preserved it, having given it to the church.  

After the Protestants, the dissidents arrived. The non-establishments, and the anabaptists. They took hold of Luther's priesthood of all believers and changed it. For Luther it never meant that the clergy didn't have a role in interpreting the Scriptures, but the newer dissidents did. For them the priesthood of all believers gave carte blanche to interpret the Scriptures themselves without any need for the oversight of the church or the clergy.  They held to the idea that the Spirit will give them all wisdom and will help them interpret.   

Hence, why it is really at this point in history that denominations went from 3 or 4 basic ones to about a hundred. 

And then came the Charismatic / pentecostal movements from about 1900. Now not only did people have the bible in their own language and not only could they interpret it anyway they liked, now they had the Spirit of God who was giving new revelation apart from the Scriptures. Literally, the church splintered in hundreds of denominations. 

And then finally in the 20th century, worldwide philosophy changed from the modern position to the post modern position. Now everyone could believe and think whatever they wanted and nobody could tell them what to do. Hence a zillion denominations sprang up. 

But having said this. the church always reflects the world or the world is a reflection of the church. The world is just as confused as the Church. no one knows who they are anymore. We all identify however we want and no-one is able to say - no. 

Yet this history only demonstrates how things changed and perhaps why. 

I spring from the protestant point of view. I think the bible can be understood and has meaning that can be understood.  there are ways to read books - even those written prior to Gutenburg. Books prior to Gutenburn DO NEED to read in a particular style. One example, is not in a chronological manner. Prior to Gutenburg, books were rare and valuable. Nobody wrote anything unless they absolutely had too. Words were important and not wasted. To copy a book required someone to physically write it out with hand. Ink and Quill or however they did it back then. they were written to be read and reread - with links back to previous parts and links to future parts. Nowadays, books can copied at the push of a computer button. They are written to be read once and discarded. There are absolutely billions of books with subjects about everything. They are written primarily to be read from cover to cover in a chronological order. 

that is some of the differences necessary to understand when to read any book pre-gutenburg.  Yet, the similarities are there too with modern books. they have words which most people can read and understand. the interpretation is not so subjective that there are a billion different meanings. Words and contexts have meanings. 

A book came out in the previous century, called "how to read a book". It is not a religious book.  Yet it is a wonderful book, for it teaches us how to read. You can download it for free on the internet.  Yet it uses the same principles that I would use in reading the bible. And that anyone can use to read it and to understand it. 

I take the view that if more than one person is able to come to the same conclusion as you when reading it - then you are starting to read it less subjectively. Of course the more people who arrive at the same conclusions as yourself - about what the text says and is trying to say - the more objective you are.  When one person reads something and NO ONE arrives at the same conclusion it is a warning to be cautious.  Of course it doesn't mean you are incorrect, but it does mean that you should be able to have good arguments for why you came to that position.    

In the church, we have thousands of denominations - but actually relatively few disagreements on theological issues. Yes, that sounds like a contradiction - and yet when we start to see what the differences are - they are actually a lot less than we might consider. they mostly revolve around - the meaning of sacraments, church government, and the meaning of salvation. Yes, we could throw in endgames, and perhaps even interpretations of the bible.  But basically that is it. 

In my view - these issues of difference result from passion, culture and pride. And perhaps ignorance as well.  America is very individualistic and anti-authoritarian in its culture. this is very different from Europe and England in particular which prides itself on traditions and authority. the Asian cultures, are very corporate orientated and this means that they in many ways - are opposed to individualistic thinking. Australia is a mixture of individualism and anti-authority, with many Asian cultures. And more recently, Middle Eastern and African mixes. these all play a part in how we understand the bible. 

the thing is - we don't need secret knowledge to understand the bible. Yes it helps to understand the original languages and church history. It helps to have a viewpoint of these things. 



No real answers currently available though.


And the life sustaining ability of Planet Earth will inevitably end one day.

Though whether or not we will have escaped this Earthly prison in our current form, will depend upon the application of science.

Rather than the reinterpretation of old Middle Eastern folk tales. 

My opinions of course.


And don't forget that there are a whole load of tough little critters who have the potential to out live Homo-sapiens without even thinking about it.

No sin or love required.

GOD principle maybe.
If you think there are no answers - you will hit that everytime.  
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@Tradesecret
I don't think that there are no answers.

There's an answer to everything.

But we don't necessarily no it.


And so someone had an idea, and as people spread so the the idea spread.

And as the idea spread, so the idea became modified.

A bit like a dish of meat and vegetables.
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@zedvictor4
I don't think that there are no answers.

There's an answer to everything.

But we don't necessarily no it.


And so someone had an idea, and as people spread so the the idea spread.

And as the idea spread, so the idea became modified.

A bit like a dish of meat and vegetables.
HI Zed,

you can choose to be wilfully ignorant. That is a matter for you. You also seem to be embracing post-modernism which is really a way of saying, there are no concrete answers. 

Reading and understanding what some one has communicated ought to be reasonably easy.  After all the entire point of communicating is to get an idea from person A to person B.   Imagine if that wasn't the case?  Imagine if I attempted to read your words that you write - like the Brother does with the bible. It would make what you say meaningless and absurd on every level.    He would take your last sentence and suggest you are doing a cooking show. Rather than making a point. 
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@Tradesecret
Wilfully ignorant of what?

We are both wilfully content with our own assessment of relevant and available information.

And there's is currently nothing new that will encourage me/us to alter my/our view points.

Because I'm certain that both you and I are ignorant of the real answer to everything. We have no choice in the matter.


"Wilfully ignorant". Is just a frustrated dig.

No more that one expects.


And we've been spicing up meat and vegetables ever since we put meat and vegetables together in the same pot.

Not necessarily meaninglessly, but sometimes too absurdly spicy for me.


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@hey-yo
 In all of three cases (and many more) every single religious grieving parent was denied what they asked for in their payers. 

I already said not all prayers are answered in the way a person wants it to
Devote Christians begging and praying to  "the lord"  for the lives of their children is a simple enough request. Like I have already mentioned, they were not asking for  their mortgages to be paid off!



. I, personally, see how anyone can manage their own emotions or develop maturity, or develop spiritually if every problem or situation is solved by a snap of the fingures.  That is not the world we live in. 
Stop it! FFS!
These devout, spiritual and grieving parents were asking for the lives of there precious children to be spared and saved.






2. Why would a devout Christian need to pray for faith? .

I said expression. To express faith one prays. However, one praying for faith is not unheard of. The answer as to why is personal and carries no weight on what is or is not. Only that they might feel error or struggle in something. Which is ok.  
So you are trying to tell me that your omni god cannot tell the difference between he that his faithful and devout, unless he prays? That is a piss poor response from a very weak mind.





 You don't know your bible too well  then,do you? 

I never claimed to be perfect and am ok with not knowing everythig about the bible.  My personal knowledge does not change what God is or is not. 
But you should know why god refuses to answer prayers especially after being  told to "ask and it will be given". 

Your callous god refused his own sons prayer  to be relived of his burden of torture and crucifixion. The only thing he heard after begging his father to save him was crickets and tumbleweed blowing in the wind..   So I suppose asking for the life of a innocent child was far too much of an audacious request. Its a wonder the devout and grieving Christian parents were not struck down themselves for such audacity!


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@zedvictor4
Tradesecret Wrote:

@ zedvictor4"you can choose to be Wilfully ignorant"

This from a pastor and chaplain the "chooses to be ignorant" of and ignores every single biblical fact that is presented to him.   🤦‍♀️
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@Stephen
Yes. In a world where death is a transition between this world and the next, sometimes we have to say bye to our loved ones to take that journey. A hard processes to grapple known as grief develops as we navigate life with God and our loved ones in heart. 


2. What?! 
So you are trying to tell me that your omni god cannot tell the difference between he that his faithful and devout, unless he prays? 
ARe you asking if God can not tell the difference between "he" or himself that is faithful and devout unless God prays?  

Your wording is wonky but maybe I'll just guess that you are asking if a christian prays for their own spiritual stegnth that you some how got confused or intentially act confused to suggest God might not know who these people are?????

3. I already explained that your perspective on the bible is incorrect. We are to pray for spiritual gain by seeking God's will not wish away life. There are many parts in bible that demonstrate this along with Jesus giving examples for prayer.

If a prayer recieves a response that is not what one asked for, it is still answered. 

You also misrepresent what happened to Jesus.

A. Jesus is God, so God did not "refuse" Himself.
B. Jesus on cross did not ask to be relieved of anything. Im guessing you reference "my God my God, why have thou forsaken me"(paraphrasing).  Which quotes a phrae from the Torah


C. Jesus preached to those in hades and opened gates of heaven for everyone (including you) and innocent children. 

D. Parents are able to meet and be with children in heaven. 
Stephen
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@hey-yo


You also misrepresent what happened to Jesus.

 Nope. Jesus' prayer to his father went unanswered. 


Jesus is God, so God did not "refuse" Himself.

Yes, it is quite a quandary. The bible clears states  that Jesus was praying to his father:

Luke 22: 42-44
42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Don't make me laugh.
So Jesus is god that needed assistance from an angelic underling "to strengthen him!? 

Did any angels appear to those devout praying Christians to " strengthen" them while they watched their children die?  
And Jesus prayed to himself knowing all along that he would refuse himself?


Jesus on cross did not ask to be relieved of anything.

  It was a bit too late then wasn't it!/ FFS!  But what he did cry was "My god, My god why have you forsaken me"? I suppose here he was talking to himself again. and this clearly shows a complete loss of faith his "father" who is himself also..



Jesus preached to those in hades and opened gates of heaven for everyone (including you) and innocent children. 

And you have biblical evidence for this do you? And does this include Judas and Satan?


Parents are able to meet and be with children in heaven.

Does Jesus himself say this?  Or is it one of his sycophants preaching it?

Can I assume you mean hell when you speak of Hades, which is believed to be a place of torment and torture?  What a lovely splendid place to send these Christian children isn't it?
Although Hades is the name of the Greek god of the underworld.





zedvictor4
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@Stephen
Well, the current basis of theism is ignoring 21st century knowledge and logic, in favour of 1st century hand me down tales.

Which all boils down to formative conditioning.

Teach your kids nonsense, and the will grow up believing in nonsense.

Such is how the brain functions.

Though to be fair, some data bases are more modifiable that others. Though this might depend upon the intensity of conditioning.

Regards. Zed.
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@zedvictor4
Wilfully ignorant of what?

We are both wilfully content with our own assessment of relevant and available information.

And there's is currently nothing new that will encourage me/us to alter my/our view points.

Because I'm certain that both you and I are ignorant of the real answer to everything. We have no choice in the matter.


"Wilfully ignorant". Is just a frustrated dig.

No more that one expects.


And we've been spicing up meat and vegetables ever since we put meat and vegetables together in the same pot.

Not necessarily meaninglessly, but sometimes too absurdly spicy for me.
so you admit to being willfully ignorant. To suggest that there is currently nothing new to encourage you to change your viewpoint is the epitome of such a view. I consider that there are always things about that might help me change my view. I don't know everything and often am corrected in my understanding.  It must be a hard slog for you being so perfect.  

It wasn't a frustrated dig. that suggests that somehow you are frustrating me. Not true. 

I love how you change the goalposts and use humour to do it.  

the point is - you say truth exists - but you don't know how to get there and worse than that - you think anyone else is NEVER going to get there before you. So you simply cast doubts on everything they say.  I might call that envy.  Are you envious of others who have satisfied and balanced lives? Is your life so unstable that you have to believe that everyone else is just as unstable as your own?  


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@Stephen
@zedvictor4
What are you referring to as 21st century logic? 
hey-yo
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@Stephen
1. Hm. Nice quote for a prayer. We see how Jesus says that may God's will be done. This coincides with my earlier point. Prayer not to wish upon a star but to seek God and God's will. 

You never felt empowered or encouraged or strengthen by the sight of someone? Ok. Well the passage does not speak about magical powers being infused into Jesus. There is no need to imply it.  

B.)  I was not at the prayers and the people do not speak about their personal experience. I would not know that information. 

C.) Circular reasoning. God did not refuse Himself or Jesus. You are just saying that is what happened without evidence for that. There is no input as to what Jesus prayed. The bible passage you provided only shows that Jesus said ",let [God] will be done." 

Otherwise the theology explaining trinity expresses that all 3 persons (in one God) are in commune with each other and share experiences. 

2. If you continue to read the passage you speak about, you will see surrounding people respond to Jesus's phrase. This is because they recognize the phrase from a Psalm which starts the same way but finishes in praising God. 

Here are links that share the same thing. 




3. Did Jesus go to hell? 
Here are bible verses and a link on explaining theology involved. 


", “hell”—Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek"


4 do children go to hell? No. 

Going to heaven and hell is our own individual choice based on/influenced by our lifestyle. If we are unable to reason our actions then there is grace and forgiveness for such innocence. 

Yes one's innocence can be do in part of their ability to understand guilt or immoral action. Children encompass this  innocence. 

Otherwise you can argue and try to prove that the children you reference and have died are guilty of mortal sin

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@Tradesecret
Nope.


In terms of data processing, one can only frustrate oneself.


And I suppose that we are both the epitome of a point of view.


And wherein do you imagine lies my instability.
Hmmmmm, this paragraph just seemed like another series of frustrated digs to me Trade.
Let's just be content to disagree about the GOD concept.


I would suggest that satisfaction comes from contentment, and further suggest that contentment is one of the benefits getting older. More to do with natural physiology than conscious data management. Though there is a balance to be made, not overburdening the brain, whilst also keeping it active.