A Perspective on the Violence in Nashville

Author: coal

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#181
Double_R
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@Dr.Franklin
I'm happy to see people realize that nothing can realistically be done about these shootings. America is just a violent country, and violence like this has been of the American experience for centuries. It's our fate, it's just nowadays schools are targeted
I'm happy to see that right winners are finally starting to admit this instead of the usual deflection nonsense. At least now we can start to have an honest conversation and onlookers can see what the real divide here is.
#182
Greyparrot
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@Double_R
I'm happy to see that right winners are finally starting to admit this instead of the usual deflection nonsense. At least now we can start to have an honest conversation and onlookers can see what the real divide here is.
The right winners? God help us.
#183
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@Dr.Franklin
America was founded on violence. Manifest Destiny was a justification for fundamentally being a violent nation. The price of having a population actively supporting violent global regime change wars is only minimally paid with mass school deaths.
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#184
coal
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@Double_R
In every other instance, the time to talk about how we prevent the next disaster is in the aftermath of said disaster. But suddenly when it comes to guns the logic is different.

I wonder why guns keep getting a pass.

The constitution.  An archaic concept, often forgot about these days. 
#185
Greyparrot
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@coal
The Constitution is the only document that prevents the government from arbitrarily classifying every citizen as a criminal.
#186
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@Greyparrot
good point
#187
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@Greyparrot
Excellent point. 
#188
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@Greyparrot
The price of having a population actively supporting violent global regime change wars is only minimally paid with mass school deaths.
What a fucking beautiful quote
#189
Double_R
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@coal
I wonder why guns keep getting a pass.
The constitution.  An archaic concept, often forgot about these days. 
The constitution also says black people are 3/5ths of a person. It can be amended.
#190
Greyparrot
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@Double_R
Like the constitutional ban on alcohol which was amended due to the fact that bans create crime and chaos.
#191
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
So given that we recognize the constitution can be amended, the fact that something is in the constitution is not a logical reason to support defying basic common sense when it comes to how we handle it. I'm glad we agree on that point and can now move on to whether it makes sense to ban or highly regulate guns.

Your example here is to point out that when we banned alcohol it caused crime and chaos (aka a black market) to surface. I assume where you're going with this is to argue that banning guns will have the same effect thus we should just keep them fully available.

So let me ask you, do you support the full legalization of heroine?
#192
Greyparrot
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@Double_R
Nobel Laureate Milton Friedman had a great argument for that. Since he is infinitely smarter than me, I suggest you look up that argument.

Specifically take note on how his arguments forever changed the "war on drugs" approach we had for decades.
#193
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@Athias

Milton Friedman, an American economist and Nobel laureate, was a vocal critic of the War on Drugs. He argued that the government's efforts to combat drug use were ineffective, expensive, and often counterproductive.

Friedman believed that drug addiction should be treated as a medical problem rather than a criminal one, and he advocated for the decriminalization of drug use. He argued that by criminalizing drug use, the government was creating a black market that led to increased violence, corruption, and the spread of diseases like HIV/AIDS.

Friedman also criticized the high cost of the War on Drugs, which he believed was a waste of taxpayer money. He argued that the government could achieve better results by investing in drug treatment programs and education campaigns.

Overall, Friedman believed that the government's focus on criminalizing drug use was not only ineffective but also a violation of individual freedom. He argued that individuals should have the right to make their own decisions about drug use, as long as they did not harm others in the process.

#194
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
So... You are in favor of the legalization of heroine, and do not believe the government should regulate it's sale. Is that correct?
#195
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@Double_R
What  about Milton Friedman's argument do you have an issue with?

Maybe I can try to address your objections?
#196
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Coming up next, A Perspective on the Violence in Louisville.
#197
Greyparrot
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@FLRW
What..another dysfunctional city run by Democrats who don't provide adequate mental health welfare? Say it isn't so.
#198
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@FLRW
According to the Kentucky Cabinet for Health and Family Services report, in 2020, the rate of hospitalizations related to mental health and substance use disorders in Jefferson County was 1,036 per 100,000 population, compared to the state average of 861 per 100,000 population. This suggests that the rate of hospitalizations related to mental health and substance use disorders in Jefferson County was approximately 20% higher than the state average.
#199
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@Greyparrot
What  about Milton Friedman's argument do you have an issue with? 
I didn't say I had a problem with his argument, I asked whether you support his viewpoint here since you are the one deciding to use it.

If you do in fact support full legalization of heroine, then at least when it comes to your stance on freedom we can say you're being consistent. I suspect however that you don't, in which case would be pretty disingenuous of you to bring it up.

So which is it?

As far as my response goes, heroine is not a perfect analogy. I use it because it highlights the hypocrisy of those claiming gun rights are about freedom while supporting the government telling it's citizens what substances they are allowed to ingest. The big difference here is that the damage of legalizing heroine would be mostly contained to those who decide to use it. With guns, setting suicide aside, the victims of gun violence are almost never the ones who decided to purchase it.
#200
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@Double_R
So you don't have a problem with the argument. Good, then we agree (again)

I suspect however that you don't
Is this where you get your chronic projections about people mis-reading you?

I suspect however that you do.

 hypocrisy of those...
I'm not a right-triber dude.

setting suicide aside
And gang wars, self-defense, and criminals being killed by police, hunting accidents....
#201
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
I'm not a right-triber dude.
I didn't say you were. Do yourself a favor and scroll up, read the conversation again, and take note of where it went off the rails.

I was asking you a series of questions to test your consistency. Rather than just answer them, you continue to duck and dodge.

You brought up Friedman's argument. I didn't.

I asked you if you support his view point, still no answer.

In the absence of an answer, I covered a range of possible answers in an attempt to forcefully move the conversation along.

You responded by pretending one in my range of answers was directed at you personally and have have turned the conversation into an allegation that I'm accusing you of something.

If you don't want me assuming your position, then just answer the question.

Do you support Friedman's position on heroine? Yes or No?
#202
Greyparrot
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@Double_R
So you don't have a problem with the argument. Good, then we agree (again)
#203
IwantRooseveltagain
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@Double_R
The constitution also says black people are 3/5ths of a person. It can be amended.
Grey Parrot thinks that number was overly generous.

#204
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
So you don't have a problem with the argument. Good, then we agree (again)
I think we both agree that you are not serious about defending your position and are really just here to troll.
#205
Greyparrot
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@Double_R
Don't be ridiculous. We both agree bans are bad in those 2 cases.
#206
Athias
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@Greyparrot
Overall, Friedman believed that the government's focus on criminalizing drug use was not only ineffective but also a violation of individual freedom. He argued that individuals should have the right to make their own decisions about drug use, as long as they did not harm others in the process.
This should be protocol for all social interaction. Because individual freedom is fundamental to a "free society"; anything short is just a pretense.