++++Meep for sweeping code of conduct change++++

Author: PREZ-HILTON

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@ADreamOfLiberty
As some people are learning in the real world the hard way, there is no set of rules that can't be warped by a sufficiently dishonest judge (or mod). You have no choice but to trust them regardless, the reason to put the rules in precise language is so abuse is obvious and demonstrable
I can tell you, I am in the mod chat and I am that balance. I have a different philosophy as them so it group think is not going to take over. Ramshutu despite being the opposite of me politically also has a different ideal of correct modding philosophy than me and the current mod team and he was invited for that reason.  

I have had some mild disagreements with ramshutu in the form of heated discussions in threads. I have been permabanned partially due to Barney's influence and have been banned under whiteflames leadership. So the mods have not surrounded themselves in an echo chamber where they can get away with making decisions that most portions of the community would object to. If anyone doesn't trust whiteflame, Barney or the other mods, they should trust that me and/or Ramshutu will not just sit back and watch the mods abuse the rules without being a real pain in the ass for them. The next presidential election people should really think about their vote. It should be somebody that shares their philosophy yes, but more importantly they should elect somebody who can accomplish 2 things. 

1. Be the type of person the moderators will respect,

2. Be somebody who has a backbone and will stand up for what they believe in

If people want to keep this site fair, it is up to them to elect a voice for them that will make sure the COC is enforced correctly and remains fair. The current COC legimately has rules against wrong think in it, and to the moderation team under whiteflame's leadership it has ignored parts of the COC that can be interpreted that way. I will say though that if you look at former users such as MGTOWdemon, they have been banned for wrong think. I was previously banned for wrong think, under previous leadership you (a dream of liberty) would have been banned for wrong think. So I think removing links to the ADL and referrances to hate speech in the COC is very important as  in adding the language about the COC stating that no topic is taboo, and this also takes care of the "respect" element so that way people can actually debate here and not just have their opinions shouted down with insults, not that insults are completely off the table. 

Words on paper won't accomplish what we want alone, however the site's leadership I would encourage to start molding the minds of new members so they know the expectations of a debate site, especially since if the next phase of my presidency is successful, we will be flooded with a lot of new members and they will outnumber the old members. 

I appreciate you helping fight for this sort of liberty on the site ADOL. Hopefully you can remain active enough to take over the presidency when my term ends and can feel safe inviting your friends with similar interests to join this site.
PREZ-HILTON
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Yay 7 (ramshutu, Prez, sir.lancelot,Austin, Dreamofliberty, bestkorea, whiteflame)

Nay 3 (RM, melcharez, B3lla,)

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@Bella3sp
Incorrect. Theres a misconception between trust and hope
Fine, you have no choice but to hope they won't twist the rules or apply them unequally.

The part you quoted is indeed vague, but so was the previous CoC. This has less basis that can be used to arbitrarily justify a ban.
What do you mean by "this"? The under-development possible MEEP or the current one? 

If anything, the current CoC is better. I won't get called out for 'hurting someones feelings'. Could you imagine the amount of debaters who could possibly get affected? Thus, this one feels more vague depending on what parts you pull out.
The term "harassment" appears in both. That's the closest I can find to "hurting feelings".
RationalMadman
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Your rules allow more, not less, tyranny. However, as you said:

If people want to keep this site fair, it is up to them to elect a voice for them that will make sure the COC is enforced correctly and remains fair. 
They elected a clown and a circus is what they've got. In fact, I think the terrible update happening during your presidency is truly ironic.
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@PREZ-HILTON
I appreciate you helping fight for this sort of liberty on the site ADOL. Hopefully you can remain active enough to take over the presidency when my term ends
I respect your drive to improve the quality of the dialog on this site, but I have never accepted or sought a position as mod or a president or what not because I certainly cannot guarantee focus or interest.

I recently ghosted for six months, not just here but all forums. I have always lived in cycles of obsession and rest. When I disengage from controversy I can't even summon the will to look up credentials for a forum. Usually another obsession has taken me, like building something.

I think a lot of people are like this. You see them come, become very active for a few months, then gone again.

and can feel safe inviting your friends with similar interests to join this site.
You could mean various things by "similar interests", but I'm afraid if you meant "interest in debate as a necessary and heroic social search for truth", I don't have many. Ok I had like three and they, like myself; often have better obsessions to follow. I couldn't contact them if I wanted.

I think you've got an uphill battle. I don't think people are getting stupider overall, but they're definitely becoming philosophical toddlers at higher percentages. My poor nephew's mind was nearly melted by the youtube algorithm.

They're not here (or other debate sites) because they're firmly lodged in their echo chambers. Even if you could fish them out, they would just flame each other.
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@Barney
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@PREZ-HILTON
 If anyone doesn't trust whiteflame, Barney or the other mods, they should trust that me and/or Ramshutu will not just sit back and watch the mods abuse the rules without being a real pain in the ass for them. 
Jesus. 😂😂😂

The wording of that is priceless. 
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*errata of my last post in this thread, I was a mod once; "I have never accepted or sought a position as mod" is technically false, I meant I never sought and besides the one mistake I never accepted.
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Vote yay
PREZ-HILTON
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Yay 8(ramshutu, Prez, sir.lancelot,Austin, Dreamofliberty, bestkorea, whiteflame, David)

Nay 3 (RM, melcharez, B3lla,)
RationalMadman
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I wonder why the mods are voting Yay, it almost is like this change gives them way more leeway.
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They would have more leeway in some regards and less in other regards
Barney
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Refinements will never cease but it looks fine.

Yay
PREZ-HILTON
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Yay 9(ramshutu, Prez, sir.lancelot,Austin, Dreamofliberty, bestkorea, whiteflame, David, barney)

Nay 3 (RM, melcharez, B3lla,)
RationalMadman
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They would have more leeway in some regards and less in other regards
They have less in 0 regards. I am sure bella also realised this instantly upon reading it. I worry for the intellect of those voting Yay that think it's in a direction of freedom over tyranny.

You tricked them well though, I give you credit.
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The previous COC has language about hate speech and the adl and there have been bans for wrong think in prior administrations. I think you know I wasn't going to allow mods to ban people for arguing that alqueda is good given my stance on free speech 
RationalMadman
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You will get actual intelligence agencies to shut the site down and go after Mike and yourself then.

I don't fancy siding with terrorist propaganda over intelligence agencies and national security.

You are also gaslighting here, that is like 4% of what has changed, you have actually become harsher on insults than ever before, I will wait for this to get enforced and then spam whiteflame and barney with reports on those who violate it.

Your CoC also literally enables censorship (deleting and whitewashing the site as mods see fit). While that is normal to have in a site's rules, it is a part your frontfacing agenda should abhor.

Circus act continues (cannot say more or Ill get muzzled for insulting)
PREZ-HILTON
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Yeah the CIA is going to shut down a non American site where teenagers argue and leave 4chan and stormfront alone. Lol
RationalMadman
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if we have propaganda for terrorist organisations, they'll do a lot more than shut this down. Laughing at me won't save you when you're bag-over-head in a blacksite getting interrogated by a high functioning sociopath.
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I would also like to inform you that Mike said he lives in America as a Russian Immigrant. This site is actually hosted in the US, even though he implied differently before.
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[RationalMadman] I would also like to inform you that Mike said he lives in America as a Russian Immigrant. This site is actually hosted in the US, even though he implied differently before.
That makes censorship less likely.

If there is no directly illegal content on the site, 1st amendment counter-suit is almost guaranteed to succeed. Mike could get rich. Chill. (so long as he isn't an associate of a republican federal level campaign, then he's doomed)
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I am not sure anyone should be chill about intelligence agencies taking a strong look at any active member of this website. I think that you of all people should be aware of the implications of that.
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[RationalMadman] I am not sure anyone should be chill about intelligence agencies taking a strong look at any active member of this website. I think that you of all people should be aware of the implications of that.
1.) You're blowing the potential way out of proportion. There is barely anyone here. Public forums are where people debate "extremism" but not where they plan it (unless they're stupid in which case they'll do it on Twitter).

2.) Intelligence agencies don't shut down sources of information. They create traps and ambushes. If the government paid agents to develop their own anti-government plots (like you know Jan 6 or Whitmer kidnapping) we would at least have more members wouldn't we? Maybe these agents have some interesting points.

3.) If you're that afraid of the government just looking, you can't have a very high opinion of their integrity. Smart.

4.) As discussed when I first signed up, I'm safe; or if I am not safe (because there is a Person of Interest style Machine operating) it wouldn't matter if I was on the same site with an islamist. I'm basically the new enemy of the state anyway. I'm taking that risk just by saying the things I say no matter where I say it.

You know the previous CoC allowed for hyperbolic calls for death of public figures right?
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Gonna vote, NAY. 
That is, if I even get a vote.
Seeing as the Hilton is also a violator of the COC himself.
Rules for thee but not for me.
PREZ-HILTON
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Yay 9(ramshutu, Prez, sir.lancelot,Austin, Dreamofliberty, bestkorea, whiteflame, David, barney)

Nay 4(RM, melcharez, B3lla,TWS)
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Voting closed.  Final vote posted above. 
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@Barney
The thread is ready for archival. Thanks