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@Sidewalker
The word ideology in this context means "boogieman", it's used to elicit fear, and justify bigotry..
Cultist trumpeteers is far more nefarious, scary, and sic-n-head{ ---to whatever degree---  type people humanity needs to be concerned with.

Intersex/hemaphrodites have always felt a need to hide, because of their unique sexual biologic differrence from most of humanity.

I  believe it is men who perpetuate this fear of sexual orientation more than women and it is the males we more often find engaged in violent acts and mass-shootings.

Many peoples feel a need to hide from cultist trumpeteers and that is similar as hermaphrodites feeling need to hide from most of humanity that includes the most of the cultist trumpeteers.

Wasnt it the closet  gay man --- FBI leader Hoover--- who persecuted gays, even as he himself was a gay man.

Think about it. ALan Turing broke the enigma code and then later was choose chemical castration and suicide, over prison madness he would endure if and most likely being killed with first few months, because of societies illogical fear regarding sexuality.

First they came for for the homosexuals and no one and no one spoke out, then they came for the handi-capped, and no one spoke out, then the came for me, and no one spoke out.   If you cant figure out the truly most scary people are in the two USA party's, then your head is stuck in a hole in ground or elsewhere, hiding from truth.

Hiding because in fear of taking a side and speaking out against scary people. I get it. Totally. 




 
TWS1405_2
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@oromagi
Homosexual acts have been documented in over 450 species and you can't argue that animals act from ideology. 
I really despise this retort so often used. 

Other species are irrelevant. They don’t possess sentience like human beings. They operate on innate pleasure principles, they don’t think about it, they just do. 

Human beings think about it then make a choice. Animals don’t choose. They just do. 

FLRW
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Actually, Trumps operate on innate pleasure principles, they don’t think about it, they just do. 

Human beings think about it then make a choice. Trumps don’t choose. They just do.

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@TWS1405_2
I really despise this retort so often used. Other species are irrelevant.
I like when gays try to justify themselves by comparing themselves to dogs.
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@Best.Korea
There is nothing at all logical about being attracted to a gender. It is passionate, not rational.
oromagi
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@TWS1405_2
I really despise this retort so often used. 
As ever, you argue from emotion, from hate.

Other species are irrelevant. They don’t possess sentience like human beings. They operate on innate pleasure principles, they don’t think about it, they just do. 
  • You missed the point.  Ideology is exclusively human.  If humans share a trait with most animals, that trait is not an ideology.
Human beings think about it then make a choice. Animals don’t choose. They just do. 
  • By definiton, a trait found in most animals is evolutionarily adaptive- it helps that species to survive.  The more social a species becomes, the more homosexual behaviour is in evidence.  Evidently, homosexuality is a social adaptation for our socially intelligent species.  Humans should always chose to conserve those traits that help preserve us a species.  Put another way: what gifts God gave us, let no man scorn.

TWS1405_2
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@FLRW
Yet another sophomorically banal retort from a TDS individual. 
TWS1405_2
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@oromagi
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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>
I really despise this retort so often used. 
As ever, you argue from emotion, from hate.
Typical intellectual coward retort. I never argue from emotion. Never. Ever. Ever. 
I leave that emotive nonsense to people like you, who constantly projection their shortcomings upon those with whom they disagree and cannot disprove/discredit their argued positions. 

Other species are irrelevant. They don’t possess sentience like human beings. They operate on innate pleasure principles, they don’t think about it, they just do. 
  • You missed the point.  Ideology is exclusively human.  If humans share a trait with most animals, that trait is not an ideology.
The ideology is rooted in mental emotions rooted in physical pleasure (what Freud called the Id). The ideology is the theory derived from the emotive thought process, the physical pleasure is purely instinctual (i.e., innate). So no, it is to YOU who MISSED the POINT! Human beings are animals too, so naturally we will share some traits with other animal species. We love. Cats love. Dogs love. But we do not love all the same way, but we recognize the emotion amongst our species. Doesn’t mean we go up to other people and squirt our eyes at them before we smell their butts. 

Human beings think about it then make a choice. Animals don’t choose. They just do. 
  • By definiton, a trait found in most animals is evolutionarily adaptive- it helps that species to survive.  The more social a species become, the more homosexual behaviour is in evidence.  Clearly, homosexuality is a social adaptation for socially intelligent species.  Humans should always chose to conserve those traits that help preserve us a species.  Put another way: what gifts God gave us, let no man scorn.

By definition, homosexual behavior as the anthesis of survival. It’s unnatural and patently de-evolutionary. It’s a perversion of nature. It’s not adaptive. It demonstrates the decline of a species when they cave entirely to their pleasure principles over heterosexuality and rational logic, as nature intended. 
oromagi
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@TWS1405_2
Typical intellectual coward retort. I never argue from emotion. Never. Ever. Ever. 
  • You literally started your argument with "I despise"  Your own words from 20 minutes ago disprove you.
Other species are irrelevant. They don’t possess sentience like human beings. They operate on innate pleasure principles, they don’t think about it, they just do. 
  • You missed the point.  Ideology is exclusively human.  If humans share a trait with most animals, that trait is not an ideology.
The ideology is rooted in mental emotions rooted in physical pleasure (what Freud called the Id). The ideology is the theory derived from the emotive thought process, the physical pleasure is purely instinctual (i.e., innate).
  • pseudo-intellectual smoke screen.  IDEALOGY is "a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy."
    • Capitalism is an ideology.  Capitalism is NOT "rooted in mental emotions rooted in physical pleasures," whatever that clusterfuck of redundancy is meant to signify.  Unlike you, I claim no insight into Adam Smith's instinctual pleasures.
we recognize the emotion amongst our species. Doesn’t mean we go up to other people and squirt our eyes at them
    • You mean crying?  I've definitely seen humans cry before.
before we smell their butts. 
  • Seen humans do that too.  Human mothers smell their babies' butts 20 times  a day.
Human beings think about it then make a choice. Animals don’t choose. They just do. 
  • By definiton, a trait found in most animals is evolutionarily adaptive- it helps that species to survive.  The more social a species become, the more homosexual behaviour is in evidence.  Clearly, homosexuality is a social adaptation for socially intelligent species.  Humans should always chose to conserve those traits that help preserve us a species.  Put another way: what gifts God gave us, let no man scorn
By definition, homosexual behavior as the anthesis of survival.
  • Mainstream science strongly disagrees.
It’s unnatural and patently de-evolutionary.  It’s not adaptive.
  • I have already pointed out that because homosexuality is commonplace  in nature, it is natural.  SInce species become more homosexual as they become more intelligent, homosexuality facilitates social interaction.  Gay genes are strongly associated with very fertile matrilineal lines across primate species- meaning that mothers that have a lot of babies also produce extra, non-parental individuals to help raise those babies.
It’s a perversion of nature.
  • Unscientific emotion
 It demonstrates the decline of a species when they cave entirely to their pleasure principles over heterosexuality and rational logic, as nature intended. 
  • Let's let biologists, not bigots, speak to Nature's intent.


sadolite
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?Mainstream science? That implies science is subjective cherry picked opinion and not science at all. 
TWS1405_2
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@oromagi

@<<<TWS1405_2>>>
Typical intellectual coward retort. I never argue from emotion. Never. Ever. Ever. 
  • You literally started your argument with "I despise"  Your own words from 20 minutes ago disprove you.
There’s that awesome display of lack of reading comprehension skills 🙄 
Every word in the English language has a different meaning, and that meaning is discerned based on the context in which it is given.
The context in which I gave the term despise clearly meant as it is defined here: to regard as negligible, worthless, or distasteful. No emotion. Just fact based on the observation.
The argument you gave is worthless. It has no relevance to human beings. It is patently a false equivalency fallacy.

Other species are irrelevant. They don’t possess sentience like human beings. They operate on innate pleasure principles, they don’t think about it, they just do. 
  • You missed the point.  Ideology is exclusively human.  If humans share a trait with most animals, that trait is not an ideology.
The ideology is rooted in mental emotions rooted in physical pleasure (what Freud called the Id). The ideology is the theory derived from the emotive thought process, the physical pleasure is purely instinctual (i.e., innate). 
  • pseudo-intellectual smoke screen.  IDEALOGY is "a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy."
    • Capitalism is an ideology.  Capitalism is NOT "rooted in mental emotions rooted in physical pleasures," whatever that clusterfuck of redundancy is meant to signify.  Unlike you, I claim no insight into Adam Smith's instinctual pleasures.
Yet another example of your lack of linguistic skills. 

In the context of this discussion, ideology is defined as: 

Comparing Capitalism to the ideology of the LGBTQ+&-😛 is a gross false equivalency fallacy. There is no comparison given the fact that you’re using the wrong definition where this discussion is concerned. 

we recognize the emotion amongst our species. Doesn’t mean we go up to other people and squirt our eyes at them 
    • You mean crying?  I've definitely seen humans cry before.
Squint, the iPad autocorrected to squirt. Animals, like cats, squint as a form of showing affection or approval (like smiling).
Again, another example of your lack of reading comprehension skills. People either make typos or autocorrect is missed when submitting a post. 
Clearly your mind is incapable of reading between the lines and discerning what was actually mean based on the entirety of the rest of the sentence where that one misspelled, typo, or clearly autocorrected word is concerned. 

before we smell their butts. 
  • Seen humans do that too.  Human mothers smell their babies' butts 20 times  a day.
Goddamn, another example of lack of reading comprehension skills. Quoting out of context fallacy. False equivalency fallacy.
Again, context matters. Normal human beings do not go around smelling other human beings butts when socializing with them.
Motherhood and getting used to changing their nasty diapers has nothing to do with the piss poor analogy you used comparing non-sentient animals to human beings sexuality. 


Human beings think about it then make a choice. Animals don’t choose. They just do. 
  • By definiton, a trait found in most animals is evolutionarily adaptive- it helps that species to survive.  The more social a species become, the more homosexual behaviour is in evidence.  Clearly, homosexuality is a social adaptation for socially intelligent species.  Humans should always chose to conserve those traits that help preserve us a species.  Put another way: what gifts God gave us, let no man scorn
By definition, homosexual behavior as the anthesis of survival. 
  • Mainstream science strongly disagrees.
Cherry picked, emotively drive, and subjectively inferred opinions you mean. Of course these type would disagree. 


It’s unnatural and patently de-evolutionary.  It’s not adaptive.
  • I have already pointed out that because homosexuality is commonplace  in nature, it is natural.  SInce species become more homosexual as they become more intelligent, homosexuality facilitates social interaction.  Gay genes are strongly associated with very fertile matrilineal lines across primate species- meaning that mothers that have a lot of babies also produce extra, non-parental individuals to help raise those babies.
Homosexuality is no more common place than transgenderism is. LGBs have consistently been less than 4% of the population in this country pre-covid. Trans, less than 0.5%. Because of the social contagion and children being impressionable and liberals brainwashed into peddling the abuse, those % have blown up (not too much, but enough to alarm everyone to pass laws against further indoctrination into the corrupt ideology).

There is no “gay”, no more than there is a “trans” gene. It’s all genetic defects/abnormalities in the brain compounded by social contagions that push impressionable people over the edge into that madness. 

I mean really, we all have the capability for sadistic violence, but we choose not to act on it for all the right reasons. 


It’s a perversion of nature.
  • Unscientific emotion
Nope. Fact. 
There has never been a human society/culture where only one gender evolved let alone survived without reproduction (which requires the other gender) to present day.


 It demonstrates the decline of a species when they cave entirely to their pleasure principles over heterosexuality and rational logic, as nature intended. 
  • Let's let biologists, not bigots, speak to Nature's intent.
No one needs to be a biologist to research, learn and state objective observable facts. Only bigot here is you, clown.
TWS1405_2
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@sadolite
?Mainstream science? That implies science is subjective cherry picked opinion and not science at all. 
Thank you!!! (You beat me to it).
oromagi
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@TWS1405_2


@<<<TWS1405_2>>> I never argue from emotion. Never. Ever. Ever. 
  • You literally started your argument with "I despise"  Your own words from 20 minutes ago disprove you.
There’s that awesome display of lack of reading comprehension skills 🙄 
  • Oh shit.  More emotions.  WIKIPEDIA:"  The primary function of emoji is to fill in emotional cues otherwise missing from typed conversation"
    • The "emo" in emoji refers to emotion
    • The facial expressions are meant to convey emotion

The context in which I gave the term despise clearly meant as it is defined here: to regard as negligible, worthless, or distasteful. No emotion.
  • Speaking of reading comprehension, here is how your source, Mirriam-Webster advised you to use the word DESPISE:
Choose the Right Synonym for despise

DESPISECONTEMNSCORNDISDAIN mean to regard as unworthy of one's notice or consideration.
DESPISE may suggest an emotional response ranging from strong dislike to loathing.
despises cowards
CONTEMN implies a vehement condemnation of a person or thing as low, vile, feeble, or ignominious.
contemns the image of women promoted by advertisers
SCORN implies a ready or indignant contempt.
scorns the very thought of retirement
DISDAIN implies an arrogant or supercilious aversion to what is regarded as unworthy.
disdained popular music
  • Did you read this part of your chosen definition or did you just flip through definitons until you found one that didn't  use the word FEELING?
    • CAMBRIDGE: to feel a strong dislike for someone or something because you think that that person or thing is bad or has no value
    • OXFORD: feel contempt or a deep repugnance for.
It is patently a false equivalency fallacy.
  • Humans are evolving animals.  Animals are also evolving animals.  
    • Seems quite equivalent
Other species are irrelevant. They don’t possess sentience like human beings. They operate on innate pleasure principles, they don’t think about it, they just do. 
  • Sentience is not the only adaptive trait in humans, nor can humans evaluate the degree of sentience in other intelligent species.
  • Humans operate on innate pleasure principles, just like other animals.
Comparing Capitalism to the ideology of the LGBTQ+&-😛 is a gross false equivalency fallacy.
  • Obviously true, because LGBTQ is not "a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of a group" it is an actual descriptor for that group.  No evidence suggests that all members of that group share one characteristic manner of thinking" and to make any such claim is classic stereotyping: the logical fallacy of the bigot.
  • ANOTHER EMOJI!  Oh shit, three emotions in one post!
There is no comparison given the fact that you’re using the wrong definition where this discussion is concerned. 
  • You are  fallaciously stereotyping LGBTQ  as an ideology just as much using your defintion as mine.
we recognize the emotion amongst our species. Doesn’t mean we go up to other people and squirt our eyes at them 
    • You mean crying?  I've definitely seen humans cry before.
Squint, the iPad autocorrected to squirt. Animals, like cats, squint as a form of showing affection or approval (like smiling).
Again, another example of your lack of reading comprehension skills.
  • You just admitted that you typo'd and then blamed my comprehension for your fuck up?  Boy, that really does make you a special kind of asshole, doesn't it? 
Normal human beings do not go around smelling other human beings butts when socializing with them.
  • So when someone asks "who cut the cheese?" you are so literal a thinker than you think they actually mean fromage?
  • Mainstream science strongly disagrees.
Cherry picked, emotively drive, and subjectively inferred opinions you mean. Of course these type would disagree. 
  • I am not surprised that you despise Science.  
  • WIKIPEDIA:  "While some people believe that homosexual activity is unnatural, scientific research shows that homosexuality is a normal and natural variation in human sexuality and is not in and of itself a source of negative psychological effects."
Homosexuality is no more common place than transgenderism is. LGBs have consistently been less than 4% of the population in this country pre-covid. Trans, less than 0.5%.
  • I guess you don't understand that 4% is 8 times larger a number than .5%?
  • Homosexuality and transgenderism describe two different evaluations.
  •  According to a recent systematic review, an estimated 9.2 out of every 100,000 people have received or requested gender affirmation surgery or transgender hormone therapy; 6.8 out of every 100,000 people have received a transgender-specific diagnoses; and 355 out of every 100,000 people self-identify as transgender.
  • Surveys in Western cultures find, on average, that about 93% of men and 87% of women identify as completely heterosexual, 4% of men and 10% of women as mostly heterosexual, 0.5% of men and 1% of women as evenly bisexual, 0.5% of men and 0.5% of women as mostly homosexual, and 2% of men and 0.5% of women as completely homosexual.
There is no “gay”, no more than there is a “trans” gene.
  • Fact-based science says otherwise.  
    •  "there is substantial evidence for a genetic basis of homosexuality, especially in males, based on twin studies; some association with regions of Chromosome 8, the Xq28 locus on the X chromosome, and other sites across many chromosomes.  Starting in the 2010s, potential epigenetic factors have become a topic of increased attention in genetic research on sexual orientation. A study presented at the ASHG 2015 Annual Meeting found that the methylation pattern in nine regions of the genome appeared very closely linked to sexual orientation, with a resulting algorithm using the methylation pattern to predict the sexual orientation of a control group with almost 70% accuracy."
    • Studies conducted on twins suggest that there are likely genetic causes of gender incongruence, although the precise genes involved are not known or fully understood. One study published in the International Journal of Transgender Health found that in 20% of identical twin pairs, if one twin was trans, the other was as well, compared to only 2.6% of non-identical twins where this was the case; researchers attribute this to their shared genetics

It’s all genetic defects/abnormalities in the brain compounded by social contagions that push impressionable people over the edge into that madness. 
  • Unscientific, fear based assertion.  Oh those scary emotions!
I mean really, we all have the capability for sadistic violence, but we choose not to act on it for all the right reasons. 
  • Super creepy super false claim.  I don't know anybody within my freinds and family with a capacity for sadism or violence.  I'm pretty sure that's just a MAGA thing.
There has never been a human society/culture where only one gender evolved let alone survived without reproduction (which requires the other gender) to present day.
  • Unreasoning idiocy.  There has never been a human society/culture where left-handed people alone survived but you'd be a fool to  claim that left-handedness is therefore a perversion of nature.

No one needs to be a biologist to research, learn and state objective observable facts.
  • So you are claiming that people's genetic makeup and sexual attractions are observable facts to you?  I think you're delusional.
Only bigot here is you, clown.  I never argue from emotion. Never. Ever. Ever. 
  • You are obviously distraught.  I recommend you see a doctor on that "sadistic violence" problem of yours.


ADreamOfLiberty
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@Best.Korea
Homosexuality is the slippery slope. You cannot justify homosexuality without justifying trans gender, trans species and other bad things.
Whether it is a slippery slope depends on the argument not the conclusion.

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@TWS1405_2
Other species are irrelevant. They don’t possess sentience like human beings. They operate on innate pleasure principles, they don’t think about it, they just do. 
  • [oromagi] You missed the point.  Ideology is exclusively human.  If humans share a trait with most animals, that trait is not an ideology.
The ideology is rooted in mental emotions rooted in physical pleasure (what Freud called the Id). The ideology is the theory derived from the emotive thought process, the physical pleasure is purely instinctual (i.e., innate). So no, it is to YOU who MISSED the POINT! Human beings are animals too, so naturally we will share some traits with other animal species. We love. Cats love. Dogs love. But we do not love all the same way, but we recognize the emotion amongst our species. Doesn’t mean we go up to other people and squirt our eyes at them before we smell their butts. 
No, it's you who missed the point. Dogs don't have ideology. If the claim is that a behavior must arise from ideology and it arises in animals that is false.

It is not proof however that it does not arise from ideology. Non-humans kill, that doesn't mean human killing can't arise from ideology.

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@oromagi
A study presented at the ASHG 2015 Annual Meeting found that the methylation pattern in nine regions of the genome appeared very closely linked to sexual orientation, with a resulting algorithm using the methylation pattern to predict the sexual orientation of a control group with almost 70% accuracy."
I would be interested to review that.

Studies conducted on twins suggest that there are likely genetic causes of gender incongruence, although the precise genes involved are not known or fully understood. One study published in the International Journal of Transgender Health found that in 20% of identical twin pairs, if one twin was trans, the other was as well, compared to only 2.6% of non-identical twins where this was the case; researchers attribute this to their shared genetics
double blind? (twins were separated and didn't know the other was questioning gender)

There has never been a human society/culture where only one gender evolved let alone survived without reproduction (which requires the other gender) to present day.
  • Unreasoning idiocy.  There has never been a human society/culture where left-handed people alone survived but you'd be a fool to  claim that left-handedness is therefore a perversion of nature.
That's a dodge, it's obvious both sexes are required for reproduction.

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@ADreamOfLiberty

No, it's you who missed the point. Dogs don't have ideology.
  • The animal analogy was mine. To claim that I missed the point of my own analogy is to demonstrate that you are not following the argument.
  • Dogs don't have ideology and dogs do engage in homosexual behavior.  Therefore homosexual behavior is biological, not ideological.
If the claim is that a behavior must arise from ideology and it arises in animals that is false.
  • Now you have it.  Ideology is a sophisticated, society based collection of principles.  Sexual impulse is primative, animal, and predates ideology in humans by millions of years.  Therefore, homosexual behavior is biological, not idealogical.
It is not proof however that it does not arise from ideology.
  • It is precisely that.
Non-humans kill, that doesn't mean human killing can't arise from ideology.
  • But obviously, the label KILLERS is not itself an ideology- its just a label for a specific set of people who share a specific activity in common.  Likewise, LGBTQ is not an ideology, its just a label for a specific set of people who share a specific experience in common. 
  • Ideology is a category of human thought-  If you know a person's ideology, like CAPITALISM, then you know something about how that person thinks about economics.  If you know a person is LGBTQ, you still don't know how that person thinks about anything, because LGBTQ does not describe any kind of thinking, only an experience of non-heteronormative non-cisgender impulse.


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@oromagi
There’s that awesome display of lack of reading comprehension skills 🙄 
  • Oh shit.  More emotions.  WIKIPEDIA:"  The primary function of emoji is to fill in emotional cues otherwise missing from typed conversation"
    • The "emo" in emoji refers to emotion
    • The facial expressions are meant to convey emotion

Are you being obtuse on purpose, or are you really that dense?? Wait, don’t answer that…

Arguing from/with emotion is like what IWantRoseveltAgain does. I do not argue like that. I put forth easily verifiable fact based assertions, it’s up to you to refute it. Just because an emoji is used =/= an argument from/to emotion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion. My showing annoyance for your lack of integrity, reading comprehension skills, and otherwise sophomoric replies does’t fall into that category because I am not using it to deflect from the facts or the core argument, but rather to show my lack of patience with you personally, specifically.


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@oromagi
The context in which I gave the term despise clearly meant as it is defined here: to regard as negligible, worthless, or distasteful. No emotion.
  • Speaking of reading comprehension, here is how your source, Mirriam-Webster advised you to use the word DESPISE

Choose the Right Synonym for despise

DESPISECONTEMNSCORNDISDAIN mean to regard as unworthy of one's notice or consideration.
DESPISE may suggest an emotional response ranging from strong dislike to loathing.
despises cowards
CONTEMN implies a vehement condemnation of a person or thing as low, vile, feeble, or ignominious.
contemns the image of women promoted by advertisers
SCORN implies a ready or indignant contempt.
scorns the very thought of retirement
DISDAIN implies an arrogant or supercilious aversion to what is regarded as unworthy.
disdained popular music
  • Did you read this part of your chosen definition or did you just flip through definitons until you found one that didn't  use the word FEELING?
    • CAMBRIDGE: to feel a strong dislike for someone or something because you think that that person or thing is bad or has no value
    • OXFORD: feel contempt or a deep repugnance for.
It is patently a false equivalency fallacy.
  • Humans are evolving animals.  Animals are also evolving animals.  
    • Seems quite equivalent

Nowhere in anything did I ever say I feel or to feel. Feelings have nothing to do with it other than the asinine feelings your’e clearly putting on display. Are you a female? You must be. 

Regardless, you just proved my point. My use of the term in question was directed at the argument, not any person. Therefore there is no emotion. However, I can dislike, have disdain for, and hold contempt for the piss poor use of the argument in which I am criticizing. That is not an argument from/to emotion, that is an argument declaring that I know the argument is patently fallacious and it’s been used so many times it is just plain tiresome and annoying to see continuously repeated by emotively driven ignoramuses such as yourself. 

Alas, your continued doubling down of your emotive temper tantrum over your inability to comprehend terms used within the context in which they were given, is by definition an appeal to emotion fallacy. It’s detracting for the core debate/discussion. So knock it off and stick to the topic and not cherry picked terms for which you clearly interpret incorrectly and then ramble off on your red herring scorned little girl routine. 
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@<<<oromagi>>>
A study presented at the ASHG 2015 Annual Meeting found that the methylation pattern in nine regions of the genome appeared very closely linked to sexual orientation, with a resulting algorithm using the methylation pattern to predict the sexual orientation of a control group with almost 70% accuracy."
I would be interested to review that.

Behind a paywall:

Ngun, T. C., Guo, W., Ghahramani, N. M., Purkayastha, K., Conn, D., Sanchez, F. J., & Vilain, E. (2015). A novel predictive model of sexual orientation using epigenetic markers. In annual meeting of the American Society of Human Genetics, Baltimore, MD.


Studies conducted on twins suggest that there are likely genetic causes of gender incongruence, although the precise genes involved are not known or fully understood. One study published in the International Journal of Transgender Health found that in 20% of identical twin pairs, if one twin was trans, the other was as well, compared to only 2.6% of non-identical twins where this was the case; researchers attribute this to their shared genetics
double blind? (twins were separated and didn't know the other was questioning gender)

Not likely.  Of the 1,894 known cases of twins separated at birth since 1922, only a about one third are identical= 631.  Even applying your overgenerous trans  frequency that only means a liklihood of 3 identical, seperated, trans twins around the world over the past century.  No way to detect a 20% frequency in a sampling of three cases.


That's a dodge, it's obvious both sexes are required for reproduction.


But homosexuality doesn't preclude babymaking any more than left-handedness.  Until very recently, gays could not plead any exemption from the social pressure to marry and have children.  Oscar Wilde had a wife and kids.  James I had a wife and kids.  RIchard the Lionheart had a wife and kids.  As I said before, studies have found a correlation between very productive matrilineal lines and gay men.  That is, the same genes associated with fecundity in XX also express homosexuality in XY.  Families with a lot of gay men in them tend  to be much larger following matrilineal descent than families without gay men.  The extra labor, financial advantage of gay men in the family makes large families more successful.

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@TWS1405_2
 I put forth easily verifiable fact based assertions
  • That's quite false.  You merely declaim 50 year old faith based arguments that have  been trashed by modern research.  You demonstrate a ltotal ack of command of dictionary definitions, basic comparative math and I don't think I saw a single science cite.
Just because an emoji is used =/= an argument from/to emotion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion. My showing annoyance for your lack of integrity, reading comprehension skills, and otherwise sophomoric replies does’t fall into that category because I am not using it to deflect from the facts or the core argument, but rather to show my lack of patience with you personally, specifically.
  • You argument is that you weren't appealing to  emotion, just annoyance and lack of patience?  Good luck with that.

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@oromagi
Intellectual cowardice psychological projection. 

You're so uneducated it's sad.

I just finished a long reply to your immature nonsensical scorned little girl retort, but the damn 3000-character limit fucked it up. 
So now I had to email it to myself and have to break it down.

You are an utter waste of time to engage with on DART. I’m only doing it for the benefit of the other members who might actually learn something, other than your childish bullshit ignorant disconnected retorts.  
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@oromagi

NOTE: The following three postings were initially completed on my ipad. But due to the character limit, and cut-n-pasting to email and submitting via laptop, there will be grammatical errors in each broken down post. Please excuse. I am not going word for word to separate words erroneously put together via the cut n paste transfer from this website into word.



It is patently a false equivalency fallacy.
  • Humans are evolving animals.  Animals are also evolving animals.  
    • Seems quite equivalent
Would you STOP quoting out of context (fallacy)!!! You need toinclude your statement with my response to keep the context in tact, that wayothers do not have to go back and see whether or not your retort is legit orfull of shit (which this one is). Animals will never evolve as human beings, which is precisely whyany correlation between us and them are patently irrelevant when it comes tothis debate/discussion. 

 Other species are irrelevant. They don’t possess sentience likehuman beings. They operate on innate pleasure principles, they don’t thinkabout it, they just do. 
  • Sentience is not the only adaptive trait in humans, nor can humans evaluate the degree of sentience in other intelligent species.
  • Humans operate on innate pleasure principles, just like other animals.
Your first bullet point is prima facie asinine as it is patentlyan indefensible subjective asinine opinion. Human beings have been evaluatingthe sentience in other species for centuries. Through observation numerousevaluations have proven many things factually true about certain speciesoutside of Homo sapiens.  While sentience is not the only ‘adaptive trait,’ it is one thatgreatly advances and secures one’s reproductive success. Which is why humanbeings, normal heterosexual ones, will always evolve and survive whereashomosexual and lesbian ones will not. The latter simply cannot reproduce.Raising other’s children also adds harm to the child’s psyche through all theliberal BS ideologies belong proliferated. Which is precisely why we have seena huge uptick in suicidality among young teen girls (mostly) and boys over allthis confusion over sexuality and gender roles.  

Comparing Capitalism to the ideology of the LGBTQ+&-😛 is a gross falseequivalency fallacy. 
  • Obviously true, because LGBTQ is not "a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of a group" it is an actual descriptor for that group.  No evidence suggests that all members of that group share one characteristic manner of thinking" and to make any such claim is classic stereotyping: the logical fallacy of the bigot.
  • ANOTHER EMOJI!  Oh shit, three emotions in one post!
So what. Acting like another using an emoji is a - point againsttheir argument is sophomoric, and each time you do it you exhibit scornedlittle girl attitude.  First bullet point, you cherry picked a part of the definitiongiven and did not give it in its full context. And no one here ever made theargument that “all members of that group share one characteristic…” blah blahblah. Strawman fallacy. So your accusation of your Ignorantly made up,fake/faux logical fallacy of the bigot is in itself fallacious (ie, appeal toridicule, spite, emotion).

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@oromagi
 There is no comparison given the fact that you’re using the wrongdefinition where this discussion is concerned. 
  • You are  fallaciously stereotyping LGBTQ  as an ideology just as much using your defintion (sic) as mine.
Nice deflection. I prove you wrong in your false equivalency andall you got is an empty claim of stereotyping. 🙄See, thatemotive stupidity on your part is annoying, so I am rolling my eyes at thelevel of emotive stupidity you’re using here.  I’ve made no stereotype. None whatsoever.  

we recognize the emotion amongst our species. Doesn’t mean we goup to other people and squirt our eyes at them 
  • You mean crying?  I've definitely seen humans cry before.
Squint, the iPad autocorrected to squirt. Animals, like cats,squint as a form of showing affection or approval (like smiling).Again, another example of your lack of reading comprehensionskills. 
  • You just admitted that you typo'd and then blamed my comprehension for your fuck up?  Boy, that really does make you a special kind of asshole, doesn't it?  
No, I made no such admission. I did not type it wrong, thereforethere was no typo. It was a system autocorrect after I saw myself correctlytype it, but missed the autocorrect. I type 90WMP, so my eyes move quicklyacross the screen. As such, I will not always catch the incorrect autocorrects.My having to point this out for the second time makes you the “special kind ofasshole” for doubling down on your own fucking error. Emotive little scornedgirl that you so clearly are.   

Normal human beings do not go around smelling other human beingsbutts when socializing with them.
  • So when someone asks "who cut the cheese?" you are so literal a thinker than you think they actually mean fromage?
You really are truly dense.   

  • Mainstream science strongly disagrees.
Cherry picked, emotively drive, and subjectively inferred opinionsyou mean. Of course these type would disagree. 
  • I am not surprised that you despise Science.  
  • WIKIPEDIA:  "While some people believe that homosexual activity is unnatural, scientific research shows that homosexuality is a normal and natural variation in human sexuality and is not in and of itself a source of negative psychological effects."
First bullet point, asinine strawman fallacy. Never said it. Neverimplied it. Second bullet point, patently false. Anyone with a piece of paperwho walks into a profession that can vastly change human understanding can andwill lie and manipulate the data to fit their agenda. Everything surroundingthe garbage being peddled in support of unnatural sexuality is and mentalillnesses/perversions is highly incredulous.  A direct example is the talking point that if trans childrenand/or adults do not get affirmative care, they will kill themselves. They addthat the “science” proves this. BULLSHIT! IT does not. Most recent studies are proving the exact opposite. Thoseregretting the decision of transitioning are coming out by the numbers andspeaking out against this evil push to fuck up the children mentally so theyare less than productive socially or to our economy.

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@oromagi
  Homosexuality is no more common place than transgenderism is. LGBshave consistently been less than 4% of the population in this countrypre-covid. Trans, less than 0.5%.
  • I guess you don't understand that 4% is 8 times larger a number than .5%?
  • Homosexuality and transgenderism describe two different evaluations.
  •  According to a recent systematic review, an estimated 9.2 out of every 100,000 people have received or requested gender affirmation surgery or transgender hormone therapy; 6.8 out of every 100,000 people have received a transgender-specific diagnoses; and 355 out of every 100,000 people self-identify as transgender.
  • Surveys in Western cultures find, on average, that about 93% of men and 87% of women identify as completely heterosexual, 4% of men and 10% of women as mostly heterosexual, 0.5% of men and 1% of women as evenly bisexual, 0.5% of men and 0.5% of women as mostly homosexual, and 2% of men and 0.5% of women as completely homosexual.
 First bullet point, non sequitur. Appeal to ignorance. Appeal tomockery. You name it. I know full well the disparity in difference in size, which isprecisely why I identified them separately because it is relevant to thediscussion. Unlike your sophomoric scorned girl retorts like this. And yes, Iam rolling my eyes at your emotive stupidity 🙄Second bullet point, no shit Sherlock. 🙄Third bullet point, proves nothing without putting it into thecontextual timeframe in which I established. Had you quoted correctly and notout of context you would have commented more accurately. BUT NO! You had tocherry pick portions of statements, quote out of context, and create a strawmanfallacy in a failed attempt to discredit my position. EPIC FAIL on yourpart. Fourth bullet point, again, out of context, but it goes back toproving my earlier point on % that you took out of context because you quotedout of context. 

There is no “gay”, no more than there is a “trans” gene. 
  • Fact-based science says otherwise.  
    •  "there is substantial evidence for a genetic basis of homosexuality, especially in males, based on twin studies; some association with regions of Chromosome 8, the Xq28 locus on the X chromosome, and other sites across many chromosomes.  Starting in the 2010s, potential epigenetic factors have become a topic of increased attention in genetic research on sexual orientation. A study presented at the ASHG 2015 Annual Meeting found that the methylation pattern in nine regions of the genome appeared very closely linked to sexual orientation, with a resulting algorithm using the methylation pattern to predict the sexual orientation of a control group with almost 70% accuracy."
    • Studies conducted on twins suggest that there are likely genetic causes of gender incongruence, although the precise genes involved are not known or fully understood. One study published in the International Journal of Transgender Health found that in 20% of identical twin pairs, if one twin was trans, the other was as well, compared to only 2.6% of non-identical twins where this was the case; researchers attribute this to their shared genetics
Flawed studies. They do not take into account environment. Twinsseparated do not always act/do/think/perform the same precisely because oftheir different environments. Not to mention all the other problems with twinstudies. https://www.geneticsandsociety.org/biopolitical-times/problem-twin-studies https://jayjoseph.net/the-trouble-with-twin-studies/ Poor research on your part.


It’s all genetic defects/abnormalities in the brain compounded bysocial contagions that push impressionable people over the edge into thatmadness. 
  • Unscientific, fear based assertion.  Oh those scary emotions!
Nope. Fact. And we are living the realities of it right now.https://nypost.com/2020/06/27/how-peer-contagion-plays-into-the-rise-of-teens-transitioning/  


I mean really, we all have the capability for sadistic violence,but we choose not to act on it for all the right reasons. 
  • Super creepy super false claim.  I don't know anybody within my freinds and family with a capacity for sadism or violence.  I'm pretty sure that's just a MAGA thing.
Prove it false. Don’t just claim it little scorned girl. Prove it.I’ve studied criminal psychology, have you? General psychology?Yes, I have. You? Doubt it given the substandard replies you give on thesubject, let alone the subject at hand. 

There has never been a human society/culture where only one genderevolved let alone survived without reproduction (which requires the othergender) to present day.
  • Unreasoning idiocy.  There has never been a human society/culture where left-handed people alone survived but you'd be a fool to  claim that left-handedness is therefore a perversion of nature.
 Intellectual coward retort. It’s clear I have been wasting my timewith you, but I feel it benefits those reading so I continue to engage youridiocy and temper tantrums. Shifting the goal post from what you claim to left handed peopleis patently asinine and your entire response(s) herein clearly demonstrates theDunning Kruger effect to the proverbial T.  

No one needs to be a biologist to research, learn and stateobjective observable facts. 
  • So you are claiming that people's genetic makeup and sexual attractions are observable facts to you?  I think you're delusional.
Strawman fallacy. 

Only bigot here is you, clown.  I never argue from emotion.Never. Ever. Ever. 
  • You are obviously distraught.  I recommend you see a doctor on that "sadistic violence" problem of yours.
Ah, and there’s the classic psychological projectionresponse. 

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@oromagi
No, it's you who missed the point. Dogs don't have ideology.
  • The animal analogy was mine. To claim that I missed the point of my own analogy is to demonstrate that you are not following the argument.
I put your tag on the wrong quote. I knew I was addressing TWS, hence the reply was addressed to him.

Dogs don't have ideology and dogs do engage in homosexual behavior.  Therefore homosexual behavior is biological, not ideological.
That's too far, correct: Therefore it is not necessarily ideological.

Non-humans kill, that doesn't mean human killing can't arise from ideology.
  • But obviously, the label KILLERS is not itself an ideology- its just a label for a specific set of people who share a specific activity in common.  Likewise, LGBTQ is not an ideology, its just a label for a specific set of people who share a specific experience in common.
You can call it a duck, but if you use it to drive nails people will tend to conflate "duck" with "hammer".

What specific experience are you talking about? Having unusual sexual desires? That's not even part of the definition of "trans" (although definitions and that movement have a complicated relationship).

Behind a paywall:
Unfortunate...

Studies conducted on twins suggest that there are likely genetic causes of gender incongruence, although the precise genes involved are not known or fully understood. One study published in the International Journal of Transgender Health found that in 20% of identical twin pairs, if one twin was trans, the other was as well, compared to only 2.6% of non-identical twins where this was the case; researchers attribute this to their shared genetics
double blind? (twins were separated and didn't know the other was questioning gender)
Not likely.  Of the 1,894 known cases of twins separated at birth since 1922, only a about one third are identical= 631.  Even applying your overgenerous trans  frequency that only means a liklihood of 3 identical, seperated, trans twins around the world over the past century.  No way to detect a 20% frequency in a sampling of three cases.
Logical conclusion, but it wasn't "my" trans frequency.

The point then is that twins in communion would effect each other psychologically and be subject to the same external stimuli in general. Such experiments would never form a strong argument for genetic determinism.

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LOL- Yeah, sometimes, I lose track of the who in all the back and forth. Right up to this moment I thought you were TWS starting to comprehend my point and then inexplicably going into RageBot5000 mode. 
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@ADreamOfLiberty

@oromagi
No, it's you who missed the point. Dogs don't have ideology. 
  • The animal analogy was mine. To claim that I missed the point of my own analogy is to demonstrate that you are not following the argument.
I put your tag on the wrong quote. I knew I was addressing TWS, hence the reply was addressed to him.
and  that reply addressed to me made absolutely zero sense. Hence o’s confusion. And mine. Cause it’s like you’re replying to neither one of us. Purely nonsensical. 

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@TWS1405_2
Better run and hide, the boogieman is coming.
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@Sidewalker
Why are you here at DART? Seriously. Why!

Asking for a friend.