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@Sidewalker
Just like nobody watches the past 50 years of broken promises from DC.
FOX News fires journalists for telling their idiot viewers the truth.
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@Greyparrot
Just like nobody watches the past 50 years of broken promises from DC.
Just like nobody voted for Trump in 2016.
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@Sidewalker
Ok Hillary.
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@Best.Korea
I already said why I believe so in my previous comment:"Surely then it is amazing how every CNN employee has the same opinion on Russia and Trump, and how every CNN report about those two aims to discredit those two."
The fact that CNN employees tend to share the same opinions, regardless of how vehemently you disagree with them, does not logically lead to the conclusion that the network is lying to you. Try again.
So when CNN hires people who want to create a wrong opinion about Trump and Russia, and hide the fact that Ukraine is a corrupt country fighting a suicidal war, and that Biden started another cold war and brought back 1970s, you say that is not as bad as Fox.
No, not even close.
First of all, there is no such thing about a wrong opinion. You believe CNN is wrong about Trump and Russia. Ok. This is where facts and logic come in. We can both look at the evidence and arrive at different conclusions. Neither of us in this case are lying.
What's different about Fox News is that the stories they are telling you, regardless of whether it's a matter of fact or opinion, are stories they themselves don't believe. This is what the dominion lawsuit showed the world. There is no evidence of anything like this on CNN or any other major news outlet, anywhere. This is not a small difference, this is what makes the difference between news and propaganda.
Everything else you stated are just your ignorant conclusions about the stories you are seeing. No one talks about Ukraine's corruption because whether they are corrupt is completely and utterly irrelevant to the fact that Russia invaded them to take over their land. And this cold war narrative of yours is pure nonsense.
The fact that CNN does not craft the narrative you want to hear does not put them in the same category as Fox News when it comes to their integrity. They are not the same.
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@Greyparrot
Just like nobody watches the past 50 years of broken promises from DC.
It always amuses me when people take it to heart that politicians broke their promises. If you were dumb enough to believe them in the first place that's on you.
The problem with our politics isn't the politicians, it's the voters. Power in government is divided for a reason. The good side of it is that no one person can be a dictator. The bad side is that getting things done requires cooperation, which can be practically impossible in a divided government.
Every politician who runs for office knows this, and therefore knows that they will not be able to accomplish half of what they say. But they also know that the people at large are too stupid to understand this and so any politician who runs honestly and tells the voters "well, I'll only be able to get things done if the other politicians let me" will never get elected.
That's a systemic problem, it isn't going anywhere as long as politicians are elected by the people. To complain about that is to complain about basic human nature, which is utterly pointless.
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@Double_R
Well said.
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@Double_R
does not logically lead to the conclusion that the network is lying to you.
No. If CNN emoloyees have the same opinion and try to convince me by hiding facts and giving incomplete reports, then that means they are lying. The conclusion of both incomplete and inaccurate report is the same. Hiding truth results in creating lies. I cannot know the truth if I am only presented with part of the truth. Anyone who is hiding the truth creates lies. Anyone who hates lies hates those who hide the truth.
Therefore, when your CNN hides the truth from me, it lies to me.
We can both look at the evidence and arrive at different conclusions.
Except the CNN tries to hide the evidence which they disagree with.
this is what makes the difference between news and propaganda.
No. The difference between news and propaganda is that propaganda promotes a specific world view, like CNN does. I dont care about Fox News, but I find it funny that you object to hiding facts while defending hiding facts when CNN does it.
because whether they are corrupt is completely and utterly irrelevant to the fact that Russia invaded them to take over their land.
So you support hiding the evidence about Ukraine being a corrupt country, based on your opinion that it is irrelevant. However, when a country as corrupt as Ukraine tries to bring NATO to Russian borders knowing such action will lead to war, and asks the US to support it in the suicidal war it is currently leading, I believe it is relevant to know that the US is supporting a corrupt country that has no chance of winning the war, and that US support is just increasing the amount of deaths in yet another unwinnable war, and that Biden caused the world to return to cold war over something as corrupt as Ukraine. When your CNN hides these objective facts and celebrates Ukraine's suicide by presenting incomplete truth to convince the public that Ukraine's suicide is important for US, you dont care. But you care about when Fox tries to hide the truth.
And this cold war narrative of yours is pure nonsense.
So you deny that cold war exists. I assume you also deny that USA and Russia are in very bad relations over something as corrupt as Ukraine.
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@Best.Korea
Therefore, when your CNN hides the truth from me, it lies to me.
CNN fires people who hide the truth. FOX fires people who tell the truth. You see the difference?
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@Best.Korea
So you support hiding the evidence about Ukraine being a corrupt country, based on your opinion that it is irrelevant.
No, I support the news reporting facts which are relevant to the story they are telling.
Your entire notion of Ukraine is nonsense right off the bat. This is a country that has had as terrible past with corruption, which is exactly why they elected an actor and a comedian to be their president. Zelensky didn't win because of his experience, his entire platform was about ending the rampant corruption in Ukraine. And while no one election is going to fix it, there is no evidence Zelensky had done anything other than focus on said platform. So the fact that you keep pretending like Ukraine's corruption is anywhere near as bad as it was before is already nonsense.
But beyond that, again, this story really has nothing at all to do with Ukraine. This is about Russia using its power to violate international law in a way that is not only remarkably kruel, but threatening to democracy itself. Nothing about Ukraine's alleged corruption has anything to do with this story, so it's just plain stupid that you keep bringing it up as if anyone is supposed to be focusing on that.
Which brings me to this...
If CNN emoloyees have the same opinion and try to convince me by hiding facts and giving incomplete reports, then that means they are lying.
Incomplete reports are only lying if what is left out would change the conclusion of the facts that were presented. Based on the above example I think we found the problem here... You seem to have no idea what is relevant or why, at least when it comes to understanding alternative points of views. So you concoct this notion in your mind that what you want to hear is relevant, then when it isn't talked about pretend that this means they are lying to you. Not even close.
Just because you want to hear something doesn't mean that something is relevant.
The difference between news and propaganda is that propaganda promotes a specific world view, like CNN does.
No, it's not. You're talking about media bias, which is not the same thing. Bias is not deceit. The latter is what you need to call something propaganda.
Deciet is when you lie or at the very least understand that something is relevant to the story you are telling and intentionally leave it out. You have no evidence that CNN is systematically doing this. With Fox news it was always beyond obvious, now it's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
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@Double_R
I support the news reporting facts which are relevant to the story they are telling
No. It was already explained to you why it is relevant.
Incomplete reports are only lying if what is left out would change the conclusion of the facts that were presented.
Yes. The CNN is lefting out that which would change conclusion, as explained here:
"So you support hiding the evidence about Ukraine being a corrupt country, based on your opinion that it is irrelevant. However, when a country as corrupt as Ukraine tries to bring NATO to Russian borders knowing such action will lead to war, and asks the US to support it in the suicidal war it is currently leading, I believe it is relevant to know that the US is supporting a corrupt country that has no chance of winning the war, and that US support is just increasing the amount of deaths in yet another unwinnable war, and that Biden caused the world to return to cold war over something as corrupt as Ukraine. When your CNN hides these objective facts and celebrates Ukraine's suicide by presenting incomplete truth to convince the public that Ukraine's suicide is important for US, you dont care."
Therefore, you have proven yourself wrong.
So the fact that you keep pretending like Ukraine's corruption is anywhere near as bad as it was before is already nonsense.
No. I dont remember saying "it is as bad as before", so I assume you are lying about me.
Also, "less bad" does not equal to "good". One can be "less bad than before", but still be very bad.
This is about Russia using its power to violate international law
Yes. Ukraine tried to bring NATO to Russian borders, while at the same killing its own civilians. It caused the war, and now the CNN tells us that US should be encouraging Ukraine to further fight this suicidal war which will result in more people dying. I assume the CNN didnt inform you well, which is why you reached the conclusion different from reality.
You have no evidence that CNN is systematically doing this.
No. You have ignored the evidence presented to you, you chose to be in favor of CNN propaganda. Usually, when someone ignores the evidence in favor of what TV screen is telling him, we call that person deluded.
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@Best.Korea
I dont care about Fox News,
What does that mean? You do watch FOX News and believe what they say, right? Otherwise, you’re a RINO
but I find it funny that you object to hiding facts while defending hiding facts when CNN does it.
CNN the network doesn’t hide facts. If an employee does lie they get fired. At FOX you get fired for telling the truth.
What does that mean? You do watch FOX News and believe what they say, right? Otherwise, you’re a RINO
I already said that I dont watch Fox news.
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@Best.Korea
I already said that I dont watch Fox news.
No, you said “you don’t care about FOX News”
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@Best.Korea
I already said that I dont watch Fox news.
Stolen valor larpers probably lie about not watching Fox.
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@Sidewalker
GP likes to embellish. He tried to pass himself off as a teacher to me once but in reality he is just an unpopular substitute teacher that real teachers try not to have in their classrooms.
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@Best.Korea
when a country as corrupt as Ukraine tries to bring NATO to Russian borders knowing such action will lead to war, and asks the US to support it in the suicidal war it is currently leading, I believe it is relevant to know that the US is supporting a corrupt country that has no chance of winning the war, and that US support is just increasing the amount of deaths in yet another unwinnable war, and that Biden caused the world to return to cold war over something as corrupt as Ukraine.
So this is your justification that CNN is lying - the fact that they aren't telling the viewers this. Ok, let's break it down.
The reason CNN isn't telling it's viewers these "facts" is because they are either, false, completely irrelevant, or common sense.
The bulk of this paragraph long justification was you explaining three separate times that Ukraine is corrupt. First of all, I already pointed out that Ukraine since Zelenskys election has shown no signs of being any more corrupt than any other country of it's size and financial standing, so there is nothing remarkable on that front worth highlighting here in the first place and you have made no attempt to show otherwise.
Second and far more importantly... Who the hell cares? What is going on in Ukraine is atrocious because it is a crime against humanity. Russia is literally bombing apartment buildings, schools and hospitals. This isn't a war against a corrupt political regime, it's a war against the people of Ukraine's right to self governance, which is in turn a war against democracy itself. No one should give a fuck how corrupt of a country Ukraine is, if you can't see the problem with what Russia is doing and why anyone with a pulse should be deeply disturbed by it you have very serious issues.
There is absolutely no reason CNN or anyone else should be talking about this within this story.
Beyond that, you argue that this war is unwinnable. You are just factually wrong. Not only is it winnable, many would argue Ukraine is winning. That of course depends on how you define winning - no one is saying Ukraine will bring Russia to it's knees. The goal for Russia is to take over Ukraine, yet the Russian military has proved remarkably inept at accomplishing this while the Ukrainians have proved the opposite. Russia is losing resources and support, no one knows how this will turn out.
You argue that CNN isn't telling the audience that war will lead to more lives lost. They don't need to tell anyone that because that's common sense. That's what war is, everyone knows that so expecting CNN to talk about it is asinine.
Lastly, you argue that Biden caused the world to go into another cold war. This is again, asinine. Biden did not cause any of this, Putin caused it when he unilaterally decided to invade a sovereign nation over his own paranoia and ego. Blaming Biden for that is ridiculous.
So do you have anything else? Because so far you have not offered one valid criticism of CNN to put them anywhere near the same camp as Fox News. And again, even if you had a point with any of these arguments (you don't) that still would only go half way to proving your point. What was proven beyond a reasonable doubt about Fox News is that its hosts openly rejected the stories they were telling their own viewers on air because they understood that lying to their audience was better for business. You still have not even attempted to show CNN doing anything like that.
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@Sidewalker
GreyParrot is so low rent he has to lie about being a teacher when he’s really a mere substitute teacher. Lol. So sad. And living all alone in his mother’s house.
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@Double_R
That's a systemic problem, it isn't going anywhere as long as politicians are elected by the people.
Especially people who boast about “having students” when in reality they are just a seldom used substitute teacher.
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@PREZ-HILTON
I agree, stolen valor larpers cannot be trusted.
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@Double_R
Not only is it winnable, many would argue Ukraine is winning.
Ok, I see that you blindly trust CNN.
Ukraine has no chance of winning the war. In the best case, Ukraine will be bombed forever, and in the worst case it will be nuked and conquered.
Have I opened your eyes?
since Zelenskys election has shown no signs of being any more corrupt than any other country of it's size and financial standing
No. Except the part where it promoted being a part of NATO expansion, after it was said to them it will lead to war. Plus, killing its own civilians isnt exactly nice.
Second and far more importantly... Who the hell cares?
You dont care for the truth? Well, then why complain at all?
What is going on in Ukraine is atrocious because it is a crime against humanity...if you can't see the problem with what Russia is doing and why anyone with a pulse should be deeply disturbed by it you have very serious issues.
Therefore, if war in Ukraine is atrocious, and supporting Ukraine with weapons is prolonging the war and causing more lives to be lost, that tells us how supporting Ukraine with weapons is morally wrong and atrocious.
You argue that CNN isn't telling the audience that war will lead to more lives lost. They don't need to tell anyone that because that's common sense.
Is it also a common sense that sending weapons to Ukraine causes more lives to be lost by making war longer? If so, then why are you supporting sending weapons to Ukraine?
Lastly, you argue that Biden caused the world to go into another cold war. This is again, asinine. Biden did not cause any of this
Biden had a choice not to support Ukraine's suicide and to maintain good relationship with Russia.
So do you have anything else?
No. I dont need anything else. My arguments were so strong that you had to resort to refuting things I never said instead of things I said. That alone proves my argument's power.
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@Best.Korea
No. I dont need anything else. My arguments were so strong
Lol
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@Sir.Lancelot
Gotta question the credibility of a person who uses stolen valor to claim superiority in arguments on internet threads.
Whoa.
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@Best.Korea
Therefore, if war in Ukraine is atrocious, and supporting Ukraine with weapons is prolonging the war and causing more lives to be lost, that tells us how supporting Ukraine with weapons is morally wrong and atrocious.
Just stop for a minute and think about the absurdity of the argument you are trying to advance; that giving Ukraine the tools they are asking us for so that they can defend their homeland is morally wrong and atrocious. If you can't see the issue with that statement I can't help you.
But here's the thing, this is all irrelevant to this conversation. You seem to have forgotten what were arguing about so let me remind you - you are claiming CNN is as bad as Fox News. If your last post wasn't clear enough that you have no case to support this claim then you are beyond reason.
What was proven beyond a reasonable doubt is that Fox News intentionally lied to their own audience for ratings. We're talking about lies, as in contortions of objective reality, not opinions.
Yet your whole defense of your position is coming down to you presenting ridiculous arguments to claim that giving Ukraine the help they are asking for is morally wrong. Even if you are right (you're not)... so what? All you've even attempted to show is that you don't agree with their opinions. That does not make their viewpoints propaganda.
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@Double_R
that giving Ukraine the tools they are asking us for so that they can defend their homeland is morally wrong and atrocious
Yes. Prolonging the war and causing more deaths is morally wrong and atrocious.
CNN is a war propaganda machine, which is as bad as the news can get. There are plenty of people who say we shouldnt support Ukraine's suicide. However, none of those people get to speak on CNN, because telling the truth isnt in CNN's nature, when promoting the war is much better for views.
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@Best.Korea
What we should do about anything is by definition, a matter of opinion.
It's quite obvious by this point that the reason you continue to claim CNN is a propaganda outlet is because you don't know what propaganda is. It's not when someone provides an opinion you don't agree with. And if you can't even figure that out perhaps you should take some time to think about how well informed your opinions are in the first place.
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@Double_R
What we should do about anything is by definition, a matter of opinion.
I already refuted this. The consequences of what we do are objective facts, and not a matter of anyone's opinion.
I dont see why you repeat a refuted point.
You cant admit that the CNN is hiding the fact that more weapons to Ukraine = more deaths. Therefore, do you approve of CNN's hiding of this objective fact?