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@Athias
Cite your reference.
Inflation was at 9% last year. It's at 3% now.
Are you kidding?
US debt has never caused us a problem
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@Vegasgiants
Cite your reference.Inflation was at 9% last year. It's at 3% now.Are you kidding?
Yeah, if we're talking about last year, then yes inflation has gone down from June of last year. But since CPI summaries are produced on a monthly basis, it would have been prudent of you to first establish the span of time for which your assessment applied. I could state inflation is down and have my point of reference be in 1778 when it was almost 30%.
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@Athias
So we agree inflation has been going down while debt is going up....right?
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@Vegasgiants
So we agree inflation has been going down
We agree that the annual inflation rate has gone down from June 2022 to June 2023. If however you examine the CPI when it's published (i.e. monthly,) there's a different story be told--that is, inflation has steadily being going up.
debt is going up....right?
As long as monetary policy is centered on the printing of fiat money absent of traditional collateral (i.e. precious metals) then the debt will always be up.
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@Athias
And thus there is no relation between debt and inflation
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@Vegasgiants
And thus there is no relation between debt and inflation
Non sequitur.
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@Athias
It's been my major point....along with the debt not being a problem for us yet
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@Vegasgiants
It's been my major point....along with the debt not being a problem for us
And that major point is incorrect. Inflation and debt are related. And they're both a problem for a list or reasons which includes but isn't limited to the devaluation of currency, decreased domestic and foreign investment, higher interest rates, decreased purchasing power parity, increase in the price of imports, etc. Only 10% of financial markets, if I remember correctly, are based on liquid assets. It's a downward spiral of (intentional) debt-spending.
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@Athias
Yet debt is increasing and interest rates are falling and inflation is falling
I can see no problem the debt has caused me in my lifetime
The national debt does not pose any problems as long as USD remains the global reserve currency.
15 days later
US credit rating was downgraded by S&P in 2011
US credit rating was downgraded by Fitch in 2023.
The United States is now BORROWING money to PAY INTEREST on money that has ALREADY BEEN BORROWED.
Is there a term for that ( e.g. "insolvency" or "bankruptcy")?
I would call that a PROBLEM.
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@prefix
So let’s take a quick look at the current federal debt, plus the government’s “unfunded liabilities,” to see how much each of us owes to cover Washington’s debt and long-term obligations.
The short answer is $572,000. That’s not how much each household or adult taxpayer owes, but each man, woman and child in America — so nearly $2.28 million for a family of four.
You can make your check payable to the U.S. Treasury.
The short answer is $572,000. That’s not how much each household or adult taxpayer owes, but each man, woman and child in America — so nearly $2.28 million for a family of four.
You can make your check payable to the U.S. Treasury.
Too much of this thread’s argument is based upon an equivocation over the concept of inflation. The argument is “debt continues to go up yet inflation is going down.” Not exactly. The rate of inflation is going down, but prices are still increasing all the time. Prices going down would be deflation, which is not what is happening.
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@cristo71
They're still stuck on that? Wow.
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@cristo71
Textbook correlation causation fallacy.
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@Greyparrot
I don’t think he’s claiming that increasing debt causes inflation to decrease (that would be even more flawed), but he is arguing that debt and inflation are entirely unrelated.
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@cristo71
Yet debt is increasing and interest rates are falling and inflation is falling
It seemed like he was implying that raising the debt causes inflation to fall.
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@Greyparrot
Seeing as how both debt and inflation were rising for a period of time, I don’t interpret it that way. That would be extremely flawed reasoning.
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@cristo71
That would be extremely flawed reasoning.
And yet, that was the pitch for "the inflation reduction act"....that we could borrow our way out of the problem :)
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@Greyparrot
I believe Gov. Newsom at least proposed the idea of giving California residents a gasoline discount card at one point. He might even become president some day!
8 days later
President Trump said that his tax cuts would cause big business to generate more jobs. Federal sources reported that the tax cuts didn’t bring about more employment. Businesses took the tax break money and squirreled it away or bought back their company’s stock. Greed won. America lost.
President Dwight David Eisenhower, perhaps the last real Republican, had a 90 percent tax rate for the super rich during his administration.
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@FLRW
Yes but there are more reliable sources such as the oracle at delphi or chicken bones.Federal sources reported that the tax cuts didn’t bring about more employment.
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@FLRW
@Vegasgiants
The short answer is $572,000. That’s not how much each household or adult taxpayer owes, but each man, woman and child in America — so nearly $2.28 million for a family of four. You can make your check payable to the U.S. Treasury.
Aka living beyond our means? It also effects the ecological environment that sustains us. Wealth, wealth, more, more, more,----within use of finite set of resources--- is all well and fine, as long as it does not degrade the ecological systems so far to threaten our existence of some calculated maximum human carrying capacity of finite Space-ship Earth.
And few do not live beyond their means, in 1st world countries.
Growing debt is like a celestial object out in space, that, we know has 95% chance of striking Earth, some years into the future with enough impact to blot out sunlight for year or more. and destroy all humans life on Earth.
So the current golden savior for humanity is thought to be fusion energy, i.e. unlimited energy or near unlimited.
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@ebuc
There is every reason to expect that the Chinese yuan will replace the U.S. dollar as the world's main reserve and settlement currency as early as the next decade.
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@ebuc
Remember that Trump raised the National Debt 40 percent.
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@FLRW
There is every reason to expect that the Chinese yuan will replace the U.S. dollar as the world's main reserve and settlement currency as early as the next decade.
Thanks to Biden's economic sanctions against BRICS nations. Even Trump wasn't that stupid.
Sadly, we have to deal with the moron.
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@FLRW
There is every reason to expect that the Chinese yuan will replace the U.S. dollar as the world's main reserve and settlement currency as early as the next decade.
..."A BRICS currency replacing the dollar is a 'ridiculous' idea, says the top economist who named the group—unless China and India become allies."...
..." For O'Neill, the unhealthy relationship between China and India is one of the main reasons a BRICScommon currency is so unlikely. “It's a good job for the West that China and India never agree on anything, because if they did the dominance of the dollar would be a lot more vulnerable,” he told the Financial Times. "...
..." For O'Neill, the unhealthy relationship between China and India is one of the main reasons a BRICScommon currency is so unlikely. “It's a good job for the West that China and India never agree on anything, because if they did the dominance of the dollar would be a lot more vulnerable,” he told the Financial Times. "...
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@FLRW
Money and wealth and debt, are one aspect of social control/order.
Seems to work though.
Especially if it's backed up with armies, with plenty of equipment.
And something just made it back to the Moon in a rocket.
That's 54 years of progress then.