Let’s face it, MAGA voters are stupid

Author: IwantRooseveltagain

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#61
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Can't have your cake and eat it too. If they weren't part of the union then what possible (legal) justification for attack was there?
What are you talking about? The south attacked Fort Sumter. Secession is illegal. It’s unconstitutional. They are in rebellion. The leaders should have been hung once they were defeated.

#62
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Secession is illegal. It’s unconstitutional.
That is debatable, but if it was true... then those states were still in the union and their electors weren't counted which means the constitution was violated in order for Lincoln to take office.

#63
Sidewalker
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Let’s face it, MAGA voters are Fascists.

Stupid AND Fascist.

Thier leader told them don't trust the meia, don't trust the opposition, don't trust the democratic process, don't trust the Justice system, only trust Fascism.

“It's better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep” - Benito Mussolini

“It's better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep” - Donald Trump

Stupid Fascists.
#64
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@Sidewalker
Stupid Fascists.
Better than the smart fascists running the FBI. Not like we have a choice about it.
#65
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@Greyparrot
Stupid Fascists.
Better than the smart fascists running the FBI. Not like we have a choice about it.
I already covered that, "don't trust the Justice system".


#66
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@Sidewalker
I covered that too, we don't have a choice to complain anymore.
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#67
IwantRooseveltagain
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@ADreamOfLiberty
then those states were still in the union and their electors weren't counted which means the constitution was violated in order for Lincoln to take office.
No, that’s not factual. Lincoln had more electoral votes from the North than the other 3 candidates, with or without secession of 7 states.

Lincoln got 180 electoral votes. A candidate needed 152 to win.

All you have to do is read. Read and understand.

In the Information Age, ignorance is a choice 

#68
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@IwantRooseveltagain
In the Information Age, ignorance is a choice 
For Trumpers. it's a lifestyle.
#69
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@Sidewalker
Resisting tyrannical indoctrination should always be a choice.
#70
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@cristo71
I’m not going to sift through incorrect narratives proffered by NYT and WaPo in particular, but here are well over 5 media narratives which were found to be inaccurate:

1. Nick Sandmann as white supremacist
2. Rittenhouse as gun trafficking, murderous white supremacist
3. Policeman later died after fire extinguisher beating on January 6
4. Governor Cuomo is a great, great governor
5. Michael Avenatti could become president
6. Steele Dossier as legit intelligence
7. Law enforcement cleared protestors for Trump’s photo op
8. Laptop not a legit story (WaPo was actually on the correct side of this one)
9. ICE whipping migrants
10. Lab leak theory as “conspiracy theory”
11. “Don’t Say Gay” bill in Florida
12. Inflation as “transitory”
13. Columbus police shot an “unarmed” Ma’Khia Bryant
14. CRT is not taught in grade schools
15. Anti lockdown protestors neglect to wear masks; BLM protestors need not wear masks (not a lie but glaring double standard)
16. BLM protests are “mostly peaceful”
Reading through the list it’s mostly a combination of opinions, stories that understood properly are true, or stories that may have turned out to be wrong at the end but were reasonable given the information available at the time. So what exactly was the point here?
#71
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@Double_R
“Mostly” able to be disregarded, eh? Well, your outright dismissals and denials of “most” of the examples come as quite a surprise, as usual.

At the end of the day, I guess the point is “you do you.”

#72
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@cristo71
I think you should spend some time thinking about how much of your criticisms of me are really just projection.

I didn’t offer details on why these examples meet the criteria I described because you essentially just spammed them in there. As always however, I was and remain more than willing to go into detail on any one of these examples if you care to focus on one instead of spamming them.

When I’m the one willing to explain and defend my position and you are the one offering nothing more than negative personal assessments before walking away from the conversation, that says a lot about which one of us is really just outright denying and dismissing the viewpoint of others.
#73
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@Double_R
When I’m the one willing to explain and defend my position and you are the one offering nothing more than negative personal assessments before walking away from the conversation, that says a lot about which one of us is really just outright denying and dismissing the viewpoint of others.

It really does when one performs pretzel logic to defend the bad behavior of corporate media.
#74
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@Double_R
My alleged spam was in response to a request from a whole other poster, a poster sort of known for spamming to say the least, who demanded no less than 5 examples, and my response was not directed toward you. I thought all this was obvious. Context matters.

Anyway, let’s start with points of agreement— which example or examples are valid in your view?
#75
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@Sidewalker

Yes, when asked why he tweeted a quote from Mussolini (“It’s better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep”), Trump appears to be barely aware of who Mussolini was.
#76
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@FLRW
#77
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@Double_R
Reading through the list it’s mostly a combination of opinions, stories that understood properly are true, or stories that may have turned out to be wrong at the end but were reasonable given the information available at the time. So what exactly was the point here?
No, over 3/4 were false (substantially misleading + implication of false factual statements).

Maybe the point is that your algorithm for determining what is "reasonable" is broken if you keep thinking reasonable beliefs turn out to be completely wrong (or unsupported).

I'll go further and say the error in your algorithm is that you trust media. It was reasonable to you to trust their framing, you assumed they had reasons. You think the only way to know if something is "baseless" is if propagandists affix it to the front of every repetition of a claim.

Go through that list and mark them T or F and we'll do some basic statistics.
#78
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@cristo71
which example or examples are valid in your view?
My thoughts below.

1. Nick Sandmann as white supremacist
Don't know who this is so I'll have to pass on this one

2. Rittenhouse as gun trafficking, murderous white supremacist
He killed two people and was probably a white supremacist. Understand that white supremecy means something very different to minorities and especially black people than it does to white people.

3. Policeman later died after fire extinguisher beating on January 6
They did.

4. Governor Cuomo is a great, great governor
Opinion

5. Michael Avenatti could become president
Opinion, and one that could could have seemed plausible to some at the time

6. Steele Dossier as legit intelligence
It was every bit as legit as most of the reporting took it for

7. Law enforcement cleared protestors for Trump’s photo op
They did

8. Laptop not a legit story (WaPo was actually on the correct side of this one)
The MSM worked with the best information they had at the time.

9. ICE whipping migrants
There were instances of this. How heavily it was reported compared to how often it was happening I don't know. 

10. Lab leak theory as “conspiracy theory”
This is a misinterpretation of what was widely being covered. The lab leak theory was prevalent among the conspiracy theorists when the evidence was not clear (it still isn't).

11. “Don’t Say Gay” bill in Florida
It's not a literal criticism, "don't say gay" is a description of the laws chilling effects, which is accurate.

12. Inflation as “transitory”
Not aware of who was saying this but this sounds like a failed prediction, not a lie.

13. Columbus police shot an “unarmed” Ma’Khia Bryant
Don't know who this was, but this sounds like an example of working with incomplete information in the early stages of a story.

14. CRT is not taught in grade schools
It's not

15. Anti lockdown protestors neglect to wear masks; BLM protestors need not wear masks (not a lie but glaring double standard)
It's kind of odd to complain about the attention being paid to a lack of masks at an anti mask rally (where obviously no one is wearing a mask) vs a protest against excessive police force where many if not most are wearing masks.

16. BLM protests are “mostly peaceful”
They were, just like most of the J6 protesters were peaceful.

#79
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@Double_R
Wow, you are really in the tank for the larger media narratives, no matter how misleading. This is what I mean about not having common frames of reference. There is just little to no functional starting point.

In other words, none of the 16 examples of media stories which turned out to be on the wrong track are valid?
#80
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@Double_R
When you label an example as “opinion,” I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. I am pointing out media narratives which turned out to be false. In the cases of Cuomo and Avenatti (what you called “opinion”), I am pointing out a misplaced “media darling” status. In other words, flawed character judgments on the part of the overriding media narratives on those two men.

If media is largely objective, as you seem to believe, then a narrative which boils down to “opinion” shouldn’t be formed in the first place!
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#81
IwantRooseveltagain
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@cristo71
When you label an example as “opinion,” I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. I am pointing out media narratives which turned out to be false. 
Because something that is presented as “Opinion” is by definition not “News”. 

A reader with basic intelligence should be able to understand the difference in what is being presented.

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#82
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@Double_R
Sandmann, who was also labeled a racist and a white supremacist when he was confronted by a Native American activist in 2019,


This douchebag
#83
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Because something that is presented as “Opinion” is by definition not “News”. 
Which is why spamming the forum with corporate media opinions just makes everyone dumber.
#84
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@IwantRooseveltagain
You, and perhaps RR, seem wholly unaware that “News” (yes, even outlets other than Fox News et al!) is able to construct a narrative, form a perspective, via factual information, selection of detail, story selection, and such while officially operating within the confines of factual news reporting. Opinion shows and articles certainly play into the overall dynamic, but news reporting is certainly capable of contributing toward a certain preconceived bias.
Topic's author
#85
IwantRooseveltagain
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Which is why spamming the forum with corporate media opinions just makes everyone dumber.
That’s ridiculous.

First of all, the vast majority of what you write and present here is a lie. You have a problem with being truthful.  Your last posting was a classic example of this — Gavin Newsome supporters attack capitalists with bear spray

Second, just because something is presented as opinion rather than news doesn’t mean it doesn’t have any value to the reader, especially if the opinion is an informed opinion that uses accurate facts to support the opinion.

#86
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@cristo71
“News” (yes, even outlets other than Fox News et al!) is able to construct a narrative, form a perspective, via factual information, selection of detail, story selection, and such while officially operating within the confines of factual news reporting. Opinion shows and articles certainly play into the overall dynamic, but news reporting is certainly capable of contributing toward a certain preconceived bias.
Well said. But you left out the part about squelching the truth to power.

If you did a google search for the left wing corporate media outlets and "laptop," you will get very limited results.
#87
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Gavin Newsome supporters attack capitalists with bear spray
#88
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@Greyparrot
What I find while researching news articles of the past is that various articles are updated as needed, with a note denoting a correction was made. They certainly do not leave the original version of the article out there, so one cannot see what the original flaw or inaccuracy was. Couldn’t do that back in the days of print media!
#89
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Maybe the point is that your algorithm for determining what is "reasonable" is broken if you keep thinking reasonable beliefs turn out to be completely wrong (or unsupported).
I don't think reasonable beliefs "keep turning out to be wrong", that is your interpretation based on your views. From my viewpoint it is you're bless that turn out to be wrong. The way we address this is to put our vows to the test through debate and/or otherwise productive discission.

With that said, reasonable beliefs can be wrong and in fact are wrong all the time. That's the nature of not being omniscient, we can only work with the information we have. As we learn more we adapt and adjust appropriately. That's what happens in many of these cherry picked examples.
#90
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@cristo71
When you label an example as “opinion,” I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. I am pointing out media narratives which turned out to be false.
Then I don't know what your point is.

Looking back you did start off when you presented the list as stories citing them as having turned out to be false, but when IWR responded telling you none of them were lies you never corrected his critique making clear that this was not what you were alleging.

So as I just addressed to ADOL, news stories "turn out to be false" all of the time because we're not omniscient. The only thing we can do is work with the information we have, and since the job is to report what is happening in real time this is going to be a frequent occurrence for any news network.

So what is your point? Why should I or anyone else care that you can list a number of stories over the years that turned out to be false in the end?