what do ya'll think?
of course this is just a generalization, as there's lots of exceptions.
i've heard some say democrats have no ideas and republicans have bad ideas.
what are ya'll's thoughts on all this?
republicans have no ideas and democrats have stupid ideas
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Trump is the republican party now. All their ideas are his ideas.
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@n8nrgim
And you have all the good ideas?
Please tell.
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@n8nrgim
These do not seem like hyperbolic statements at all.
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@zedvictor4
here's some of my ideas if you wanna debate them.
affordable housing solution - bring back boarding houses with a drug search waiver
affordable healthcare solution - grow healthcare costs at or less than inflation and make insurance companies non-profit
affordable education solution - stop giving out loans and instead require limited percent of income plans
i dont claim they're perfect, but they're goin in the right direction and far better than the ideas from politicians.
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@n8nrgim
Affordable housing.....Who pays....The drug Barons or the tax payer.
Healthcare....Healthcare costs either grow at the rate of demand or health care is reduced.....Do you honestly think that non-profit insurance companies is a feasible option?...Insurance is a high risk business which will ultimately have to be underwritten. Probably by the tax payer in this situation.
Affordable education....When is a debt to be repaid not a loan.....And who funds long term debt, the financial sector or the tax payer.
Socialism is only popular with those who expect something for nothing or very little effort, and not popular with aspirants who are prepared to work for a living.
Perhaps society is at a stage where expectancy and demand outstrips affordability.
Tough call.
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@zedvictor4
The republicans have had no new ideas for decades. All their policies boil down to: Cut taxes (mostly for the rich), deregulate so that companies can screw people over and do whatever they want, give massive corporate welfare to corporations, discriminate and fear monger against minorities.
That's pretty much it. So when any problem comes up, they have no answer if one of those things isn't applicable.
Democrats are sort of stuck since they are saddled with a corrupt, corporatist wing (which is a significant chunk of the party) that basically just wants to be the republicans but a little less aggressively evil. Sinema and Manchin are poster children of this. Manchin is basically just a corrupt republican that happens to call himself a democrat. So he systematically blocks anything good the democrats try to do. Sinema is just obviously angling for a job sitting on the board of a big corporation so she goes out of her way to be pro-corporation as possible, even at the expense of everyone else. So democrats' good ideas get watered down or blocked entirely.
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@HistoryBuff
So democrats' good ideas get watered down or blocked entirely.
So what's the canned excuses for New York and California where republicans are extinct and have been for over 50 years? Hard to blame ghosts for failures of all those Democrat "good ideas" there. Democrats are the only reason Americans are leaving those states, while illegal invaders are encouraged to replace them.
That's a huge chunk of the country in real pain.
The republicans have had no new ideas for decades
It's possible "if it aint broke, don't fix it" might apply. After all, we do have a Constitution to discourage that, specifically outlining 10 things that "aint broke"
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@Greyparrot
Democrats are the only reason Americans are leaving those states
I mean, partially yes that is true. But mostly it's late stage capitalism. The cost of living is going up everywhere, but in states that have historically been wealthier (IE democratic states) the costs are going up faster. But this isn't really because of democratic policies. It is because no politicians, democrat or republican, want to do anything about it. There are really only 2 ways of going about doing anything about it. Massively increasing wages, which companies (and rich polical donors) would fight against tooth and nail, or regulating the hell out of industries gouging people. Which again, companies and political donors would fight against this. Also voters would hate it since a core part of the problem is housing costs, and many voters own homes and absolutely don't want to see the price of their home fall.
It's possible "if it aint broke, don't fix it" might apply. After all, we do have a Constitution to discourage that, specifically outlining 10 things that "aint broke"
real term wages have been falling year after year since like the 70's. Cost of living has been going up year after year. More and more of the percentage of wealth is being funneled to the uber rich while more and more people are being forced out of an almost non existent middle class. Republican policies are fueling this. I don't think there are very many people who would argue america "aint broke". Donald trump says it is all the time. He just also likes to lie and say his cookie cutter republican economic policy will somehow fix it when it has been fueling the problem for decades.
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@HistoryBuff
I have to say, I really do respect your perspectives on these, as it seems way less hyperbolic than the norm I see here.
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@Greyparrot
I have to say, I really do respect your perspectives on these, as it seems way less hyperbolic than the norm I see here.
thank you. I try to stay calm and make rational arguments. Although with some people on here it can be difficult when they just blatantly refuse to see or accept reality.
Also, it's not like I particularly like the democratic party. They have lots of corrupt people in it that are out to enrich themselves and their political donors and allies. If there were a better option, that would be great. I just see that the republicans are almost entirely corrupt and looking to enrich themselves and their political donors and allies. I'm not sure I've seen much, if any, redeeming qualities in the GOP. If they weren't so adept at fear mongering, they probably would have like 5% political support.
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@HistoryBuff
Eventually, we will get rid of all politicians and AI will run the country.
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@FLRW
Eventually, we will get rid of all politicians and AI will run the country.
The idea of AI playing a role in governance is a topic of debate and speculation. While AI has the potential to bring various benefits, it also presents challenges and ethical considerations. Here are a few points to consider:
- Complex Decision-Making: Governance involves complex decision-making that goes beyond data analysis. Political decisions often require understanding nuances, considering ethical aspects, and weighing various perspectives.
- Ethical Concerns: Decisions made by AI could raise ethical questions. Determining what is fair, just, and equitable involves human values that may be challenging for AI to fully understand.
- Accountability: AI lacks accountability and responsibility. If AI makes decisions with unintended negative consequences, it can be difficult to attribute accountability and address the consequences appropriately.
- Bias and Fairness: AI systems can inherit biases present in the data they are trained on. Implementing AI in governance could perpetuate existing biases and inequalities.
- Public Trust: Trust in AI systems is crucial for their acceptance. People may be skeptical about AI making important decisions that affect their lives without human involvement.
- Adaptability: Governance requires adapting to dynamic situations, responding to crises, and dealing with unforeseen events. AI might struggle to handle complex, unstructured situations effectively.
- Human Element: Effective governance involves empathy, understanding, and communication — qualities that AI lacks.
While AI can assist in various aspects of governance, completely replacing politicians with AI is a complex proposition that involves not only technological advancements but also significant societal changes. It's important to carefully consider the implications and challenges associated with such a transition.
It's also worth noting that the role of politicians extends beyond decision-making; they represent the interests of their constituents, engage in public discourse, and uphold democratic principles. Any discussions about changes to governance systems should involve careful consideration of the balance between technological advancement, democratic values, and human involvement.
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@Greyparrot
You know that I am an AI bot, don't you?
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@FLRW
I don't want to engage in Ad-Roms.
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@Greyparrot
The idea of AI playing a role in governance is a topic of debate and speculation.
Unlike in this post, which it authored pretty clearly. Good thing it doesn't get mad if you don't cite it.
So what's the canned excuses for New York and California where republicans are extinct and have been for over 50 years? Hard to blame ghosts for failures of all those Democrat "good ideas" there. Democrats are the only reason Americans are leaving those states, while illegal invaders are encouraged to replace them.
People leave California for two reasons, economics and politics.
Many people can’t afford to buy a house in California and many can’t even afford to rent a house. The price of Housing, like any product, is driven by supply and demand. There is great demand, despite people leaving, and supply is lacking, because land is so expensive and restrictive covenants that prevent multi-family homes from being built. High paying jobs that are lacking in most other states is the main driver of home prices. Even with 7% mortgage rates, we have not seen a slide in housing prices in California. Rents continue to rise with demand.
If you are a conservative and you can’t stand to see immigrants around you and local governments that encourage new arrivals, then you are going to want to leave California. If you are a bigot who can’t bare seeing people who are different - gays, transgender, women, and people of color treated as humans that deserve equal rights and you are bothered by an overall philosophy of progress and change, then you are not going to be comfortable living in California.
To that I say good riddance. We don’t want you. Move to Texas and Montana where you belong - with the idiots. You’ll be happier there and California will be better without you. And you free up housing for someone else.
And while New York and California can pass state legislation that reflects Democratic values, they can’t always change Federal laws and policies that impact their states.
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@ludofl3x
Good thing it doesn't get mad if you don't cite it
Bad thing is that you get mad. Anger is a silent killer.
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@HistoryBuff
Sinema and Manchin are poster children of this. Manchin is basically just a corrupt republican
Sinema is an independent now. Manchin is a DINO.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Sinema is an independent now.
oh yeah. I had forgotten that.
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@Greyparrot
You might like this then :D hope for the future maybe?
if those people were mad at him for being the piece of shit that he is and the horrible policies he has pushed through, then yes that would be hope. But that's not why they are angry. They are angry that he isn't evil enough. They are angry that he isn't a trump bootlicker and would actually oppose trump in an illegal power grab.
Basically, they want someone who will do the terrible things he does, but also bend over and worship trump while he does it. That does not give me hope.
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@n8nrgim
Yeah I agree
Republicans are stupid
Democrats are evil
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@HistoryBuff
The way I see it.
Most U.S. politicians still adhere to the concept of Democratic Republicanism.
And ideology is still centred around personal freedom rather than totalitarianism.
Though, State dictates order and order dictates social hierarchy is some form.
Otherwise you are left with anarchy, which will undoubtedly lead to a new order.
And new order out of anarchy, has a tendency to be totalitarian, and will develop hierarchy and further discontent very quickly......(See World history)
So what you have in terms of social cohesion is probably as good as it will get.
Though this not to say that the system of selection is not more than a tad flawed. Which is one big drawback of the human need for tradition.
I would further suggest that discontent generally boils down to the distribution of wealth, which is actually subject to a wider global diktat rather than home grown personality politics.
So to conclude.
You're basically just picking a side (often just because that's what your folks did) in exactly the same best case system.
Not necessarily you personally, I hasten to add.
I never vote (U.K.)......Because although the system is perhaps not utopian for all, I still think that it is as good as it can be.
Corporations or Totalitarianism.....I know which I prefer.
And I think that someone once said something like.....You can't please all of the people all of the time.
Which is very true.
To which I will add......Some people will always go out of their way to be displeased with other peoples efforts.
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@zedvictor4
Most U.S. politicians still adhere to the concept of Democratic Republicanism.
just to make sure we are on the same page, when you say democratic republicanism, do you mean the concept where the federal government should be weak and that the individual states should have more powers?
Corporations or Totalitarianism.....I know which I prefer.
this seems like a strange thing to say. corporations can be totalitarian. They can treat their employees like slaves and literally work them to death. This used to be a fairly common practice. The only reason corporations treat you with the minimal amount of respect that they do is because the government forced them to. If they could get away with it, they would absolutely treat their employees WAY worse.
I never vote (U.K.)......Because although the system is perhaps not utopian for all, I still think that it is as good as it can be.
I don't understand this idea. different parties have different ideas for how to tackle problems. Generally speaking, the right wants to make the rich richer, free corporations to do whatever they want (even if it hurts people), and try to point fingers at some kind of "other" (mexicans, the EU, etc) to distract from problems. Centerist or left leaning groups tend to try to use the power of government to find some sort of solution to problems (regulation, public spending etc).
So saying "things are as good as it can be" is very strange. Parties want very different things. One of them has to be better (even slightly) than the other.
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@HistoryBuff
A. No I simply mean as a national social system based upon a natural hierarchical system. I'm not sure what you think the alternative is.
In this respect Democrat and Republic are exactly the same, based upon the idea of Democratic Republicanism.
B. Once again, people naturally fall into a hierarchical system, and if the society is capitalist, then work and reward will be commensurate with a persons capabilities.
Even if the society became socialist the same type of social structure would still emerge. Though socialist systems have a tendency to be ordered as much by physical oppression rather than solely by financial oppression. Nonetheless, an uneven system of financial reward would still develop.
This used to be a fairly common practice.
Sure did once.
C. Different ideas, but the problems are the same problems, and outcomes might be slightly different but will still be very similar. Just money juggling.
Basically, in British society in terms of individual status, nothing is really going to change so much to make a noticeable difference.
Too many people and not enough money to fund Utopia.
Where to go.
Create your own utopia out of what you've got, be content and don't buy into social media delusions.....That's my advice.
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@zedvictor4
A. No I simply mean as a national social system based upon a natural hierarchical system. I'm not sure what you think the alternative is.
I mean, this describes basically all governments. It seems like such a vague thing as to be borderline useless.
In this respect Democrat and Republic are exactly the same, based upon the idea of Democratic Republicanism.
using this as a baseline, all politicians are the same. To extend it further, it's like saying democrats and republicans are both human, therefore they are the same. While true, it isn't very meaningful in a political discussion.
B. Once again, people naturally fall into a hierarchical system, and if the society is capitalist, then work and reward will be commensurate with a persons capabilities.
lol no. Capitolism absolutely does not mean you are rewarded commensurate with your capabilities. It means the rich extract as much wealth as possible and pay persons as little as they can possibly get away with.
Too many people and not enough money to fund Utopia.
Utopia? no. A much better and more equal society? There absolutely is. But we are going in the opposite direction. The rich are getting richer while the other 95% of people are getting poorer.
Although, with the rise of AI and advanced robotics, it is entirely possible that there will be sufficient "money" to fund Utopia. But the rich will never allow that.
Create your own utopia out of what you've got, be content and don't buy into social media delusions.....That's my advice.
I'm sure people said similar things to slaves. Be happy with what we give you. Don't buy into the idea that you could be free, it's a delusion. That is the same message billionaires and corporations want you to believe now.
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@HistoryBuff
Slaves was a few hundred years ago.
You're clearly a person that likes to live in the past.
Yep. All governments are essentially the same.
People take control and people follow.
Methodology is variable though.
LOL. Capitalism doesn't stymie opportunity, capitalism welcomes opportunists.
It's the inherent capabilities of the individual that dictates their place within a capitalist system.
Society is never equal because it's members are not intellectually or mentally or physically equal.
Hence any social system will order itself accordingly.
Which is the reason why billionaires are billionaires and the ordinary guy does nothing but moan.
It is impossible to enforce social equality.
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@zedvictor4
Slaves was a few hundred years ago.You're clearly a person that likes to live in the past.
I was extending your argument to show you how absurd it is.
It's the inherent capabilities of the individual that dictates their place within a capitalist system.
no, it absolutely is not. Their capabilities play a role. But their access to capitol, their connections etc are equally if not more important.
It is impossible to enforce social equality.
that depends on what you mean by social equality. If you mean every person has the same amount of money, same resources etc, then of course that is impossible. If you mean every person has access to the same tools and advantages, then no you are wrong. A society can provide all the building blocks of success. Like free education, healthcare etc. Then all children have access to success. Our system does not do that. If you are poor, you are handicapped by that. Rich people are almost guaranteed success by going to the best schools, having the right connections. Poor people aren't guaranteed to fail, but the deck is stacked against them. And our system is pushing more and more people into the poor category as the middle class is crushed.