How Do You Know When The Devil's Playing Tricks?

Author: MagicAintReal ,

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  • MagicAintReal
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    For people into old goddy god,

    1. Can you explain how you know when things have been done by god and when things have been done by the devil who has masterfully disguised something to look like it was done by god?

    2. How do you tell the difference between god and the devil in general?

    3. Why is it that god had the ability to create the devil, but has not the ability destroy him?
  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    Well we know God works in mysterious ways. 
    So I'm thinking the Devil works there also. 
    workmates maybe. 
  • MagicAintReal
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    --> @Deb-8-a-bull
    Shiny happy people holding hands...
  • Tradesecret
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    --> @MagicAintReal
    1. Can you explain how you know when things have been done by god and when things have been done by the devil who has masterfully disguised something to look like it was done by god?

    2. How do you tell the difference between god and the devil in general?

    3. Why is it that god had the ability to create the devil, but has not the ability destroy him?


    1. Does it bring glory to God or does it attempt to make him look stupid? God made the world. The devil did not. 

    2. God is divine. Satan is an angel who has fallen because he wanted to be God. God is omniscient and all knowing. Satan is neither. Neither is Satan all powerful. 

    3. What an interesting question? God does have the ability to destroy Satan, whatever gives you the idea that he does not? God could also destroy all of humanity quite justly. Yet, he is also merciful and patient. Satan knows his end. Satan knows the bible very well - and knows that God does not tell lies. It really is a matter of time and perspective. From a human point of view, we expect that God should destroy Satan immediately according to our standards and measures of time. God is divine and his timing and perspective is a divine one. Whenever God eventually destroys Satan will be the perfect time. 
  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    --> @MagicAintReal
    So Do you want the good news or the bad news. 
    Bad. Ok 

    The Bad news.
    I found this ( Mysterious Ways ) place where God works and not one person there has ever heard of a bloke named The Devil
    So that was a complete dead end and a waist of one and a half hours. 

    Ok the Good news. You're going to love this MAR.

    I found out the name of the place where the Devil is at .
    Ok I'm only going to say this once and pleaee if you could MAR keep this to yourself.

    The Devil is  ( IN THE DETAILS. ) 
    Anyone got any ideas or where  ( IN THE DETAILS )  is?

    I'm going to leave you with finding this out magic.
    Good day and . 
    You're welcome. 











  • MagicAintReal
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    --> @Tradesecret
    1. God made the world. The devil did not. 
    Ok, but how do you know that the devil wasn't just masterfully disguised as god claiming to have made the world?
    How would you tell when the devil does something disguised as god and when god does something?

    2. God is divine. Satan is an angel who has fallen because he wanted to be God. God is omniscient and all knowing. Satan is neither. Neither is Satan all powerful. 
    How do you know that what you're calling divine isn't the devil disguised as god, and what tells you that this entity is divine?
    Before god created satan, did god have the foreknowledge that this creation would spawn the devil?
    If yes, then why didn't he stop it?


    3. What an interesting question? God does have the ability to destroy Satan, whatever gives you the idea that he does not?
    Well, he created satan knowing full well what would happen, therefore god allowed for the devil's existence or couldn't stop it from happening, and the devil apparently still exists today, yet goddy god is either choosing not to stop him, can't stop him, or, as I keep alluding to, the devil and god are one and the same, because there's no way to tell the difference between the two characters.

    God could also destroy all of humanity quite justly. Yet, he is also merciful and patient. Satan knows his end.
    Why is he so merciful to satan?
    Is it because he created satan and evil and wants those both to remain?

    Whenever God eventually destroys Satan will be the perfect time. 
    How do you know that god even has the ability to destroy the devil whom he knew the future of before creating?
  • MagicAintReal
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    hahaha amazing.

    "In the details" sounds like a concept album.

  • Stephen
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    --> @MagicAintReal
    3. Why is it that god had the ability to create the devil, but has not the ability destroy him?

    He doesn't have the ability to even control his own creation, never mind "destroy him". He also had over 200 other "sons" that he couldn't control, either. These 200 hundred are said to have broken a serious taboo, yet weren't punished depending on what one chooses to believe. 

    Which leaves us with an extremely embarrassing question for the theist doesn't it?
  • MagicAintReal
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    Which leaves us with an extremely embarrassing question for the theist doesn't it?
    Yeah, so I want to see how a theist wriggles out of this.

  • Polytheist-Witch
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    Not all theists believe in a devil or an evil devil. So clear up your language losers. 
  • Stephen
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    I want to see how a theist wriggles out of this.


    They will first have a few attempts to see how gullible you are with replies like this that have absolutely no biblical foundation whatsoever:

    Tradesecret WROTE #4 : 2. God is divine. Satan is an angel who has fallen because he wanted to be God. God is omniscient and all knowing. Satan is neither. Neither is Satan all powerful

    When then challenged on this they will respond with other biblical verses from the same foundationless source material and have nothing to do with your original questions in the hope that they will look intelligent and superior to you.
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @Stephen
    Again Stephen admits to being an atheist.  Two posts from now he will claim to be a theist so he can insult theist with no recourse. 
  • Stephen
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    Again Stephen admits to being an atheist.
    Where above have I "admitted" that I am an atheist?  show us your proof and stop lying. There should be a rule against lying about members without proof I will have to ask a mod if there is such a rule if there isn't there should be?


  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @Stephen
    If you don't want to be called a liar quit posting lies. 
  • Stephen
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    If you don't want to be called a liar quit posting lies. 

    Just let us see these alleged lies, you clown. Or stop derailing other members threads with your unfounded allegations. This thread is not for you to attack me. have the respect to address the op or leave it.
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    Not my fault your a liar and guess what, not my parent either bigot. 
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Deb-8-a-bull
    Well we know God works in mysterious ways. 
    So I'm thinking the Devil works there also. 

    The Devil is  ( IN THE DETAILS. ) 
    Anyone got any ideas or where  ( IN THE DETAILS )  is?

    Friggin hilarious, thanks Deb8

  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @MagicAintReal
    Would you be willing to examine this from more of a conceptual framework and not such a literal one? I take a more universal approach to spiritual texts but I can make sense of the questions anyways. Some people get queasy though if answers aren't strictly found in the Bible, but then why ask in the first place..

    1. Can you explain how you know when things have been done by god and when things have been done by the devil who has masterfully disguised something to look like it was done by god?

    In creation you have two forces (or pairs of forces), opposing forces, and they work together or against one another to enable experience allowing for activity between the two poles or even at two extremes. Without opposing forces which creates contrast and separation there can be no creation. In this realm you have both the negative force and the positive force working and everything in between, and these forces are typically manifested through vessels. Vessels being the souls that inhabit this planet and even those that are foreign to it or outside it which can have influence.
    While not everything in creation is so black and white it's typically easy to see what is positive and what is negative. More so as it relates to us personally though, obviously.
    Since the Creator is all encompassing, or rather all of creation comes from out of God and all of creation is within the conscious reality/nature of God everything is a manifestation of that one Source and all created souls and beings become their own mini-creator in the worlds of God. And because of this it is the individual created souls and beings that are mediums for either force. 

    Not everything is either caused by some devil or by God, that is not how creation works. Generally speaking it's the vessels that are the conduits for either the positive forces or the negative. 
    Whether one takes a literal understanding of what the "devil" represents in scripture or a more figurative application, the devil is usually the representative of the negative forces as a whole not just a singular entity. I know the scriptures paint out a picture there is an actual devil running loose causing problems (which there may be) but there is another way of looking at it and understanding how these forces play out in this realm.
    This is a cause and effect creation which means we are responsible for everything that happens on this planet because all things comes through our decisions and actions and desires, not Gods or the devils. I know that is a bit unorthodox but I'm not a fundamentalist anyways, my beliefs are not limited to one source so keep that in mind.
    To answer your question more literal, if there was a "devil" masterfully disguising a negative action maybe we wouldn't know, does it really matter? maybe I don't see the point of the question it seems odd. If the devil were to disguise his position maybe we wouldn't know...until the final outcome anyways. But again, this idea that there is some renegade devil that causes all evil is very immature TBH and is not based on reality. 

    2. How do you tell the difference between god and the devil in general?

    Well as I stated all beings are created from a singular Source and is an expression of that Reality, nothing is outside of that. However, each soul has been given the Divine spark which is the creative abilities and imagination and is free to become what it wants in creation and there are many, many souls and beings on all levels of creation way beyond this one alone. All these beings are channeling their own desires and wishes and they become the conduit of whatever force they want. 
    The question changes when you understand the nature of the soul and how the created worlds operate. Basically there is no distinction between the nature of the create soul and that of the Creator, only the perception the individual takes on in a limited state of conscious awareness.


    3. Why is it that god had the ability to create the devil, but has not the ability destroy him?


    Generally speaking souls are eternal once they are individualized. The soul cannot be destroyed even though there is a verse in the Bible that says it can be. That is untrue though, the actual soul cannot be destroyed just like energy cannot be destroyed. The ego can be destroyed and the bodies that souls inhabit in creation can be terminated but the actual soul is eternal. Once it is individualized/created that's it, it is final. That individualized soul gets to become whatever it wants and represent whatever force it wants, that is point of creation. God experiences everything through all channels, all vessels, the Creator has direct access to your channel of consciousness and experiences right through you, right through your own experiences. This is the investment the Creator has in all of this. 

  • MagicAintReal
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    To answer your question more literal, if there was a "devil" masterfully disguising a negative action maybe we wouldn't know, does it really matter?
    Yeah, because if you've been living your life trying to follow the words of god and all you've really been doing is following god's antithesis, then you've wasted your life following the devil instead of following god.

    If the devil were to disguise his position maybe we wouldn't know...until the final outcome anyways.
    That would suck, given that god's word is supposed to be a salvation for your life and not a bait and switch by satan.

    But again, this idea that there is some renegade devil that causes all evil is very immature TBH and is not based on reality. 
    Immature like soul vessels or immature like telling me the ego can be destroyed by a divine spark?
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    Considering the hoops Satan jumped through to be able to attack Job I don't think he does half what people think. He's more of a scapegoat than Jesus. 
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @MagicAintReal
    Yeah, because if you've been living your life trying to follow the words of god and all you've really been doing is following god's antithesis, then you've wasted your life following the devil instead of following god.

    Okay so you were specifically referring to the self in this context? this goes back to what I was saying, that we ourselves are the conduits of positive and negative forces not some other entity or devil going around tricking everyone, there are many beings that exist outside this realm and planet but again, the devil is not responsible for anyone's downfall that is not how creation operates. Spirituality will always lead you to where you need to be if you have a sincere attitude and heart, you can certainly be deceived in many ways but the point is to learn about what is correct and what is not through experience and then make adjustments. In other words you can't waste your life following the "devil" unless you've allowed it in some way, even if you were to be "tricked" into something out of your control that is just a temporary event and something you needed to learn from. But, I'm not supporting the notion that some entity runs around tricking people, that is silly.
    We can certainly be conduits for other spiritual beings if we allow that, but generally speaking spirit beings have to be given access and the motives of the individual have to reflect both parties. In other words beings with similar motives can use each other but it is mutual in intentions and desires/actions.

    If the devil were to disguise his position maybe we wouldn't know...until the final outcome anyways.

    That would suck, given that god's word is supposed to be a salvation for your life and not a bait and switch by satan.

    I wasn't sure you were referring to the self only but now I know what you mean, I thought you meant looking out into the world and others my bad....Are you saying you've been tricked by the Devil? if not then what are you referring to? I'm saying that is nonsense and plays little role in your direct experience in spirituality, if you are putting your best efforts forward the outcome will always be to your benefit unless you caused something at some point you need to "pay back". The negative forces will always be present in creation and in the lower worlds, but we are the conduits of those forces we are not just manipulated by them...we channel those forces from our own motives and actions.
    But again, this idea that there is some renegade devil that causes all evil is very immature TBH and is not based on reality.

    Immature like soul vessels or immature like telling me the ego can be destroyed by a divine spark?

    I'm not calling you immature just so you know, but the idea behind it is not something that reflects the truth. And BTW that is not what I wrote anyways. I said the ego could be destroyed but not the soul itself, the Divine spark is the individuals creative abilites. The ego is something that the soul takes on, it is not the true nature of the soul that is eternal. Anything in creation, other than the soul itself can be destroyed and that is due to the fact the soul is covered in layers including the mental body and emotional layer. These layers along with the individuals perceptions it takes on through experiences create the ego.
    No need to get insulting I have no intentions of doing that so let's keep this clean.
  • MagicAintReal
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    Wow, where to start here...

    there are many beings that exist outside this realm and planet 

    Such as?

    but again, the devil is not responsible for anyone's downfall that is not how creation operates
    And you know how "creation operates" because...?

     I'm not supporting the notion that some entity runs around tricking people, that is silly. 
    Right, but "lower world spirit vessels" is just plain reasonable.

    We can certainly be conduits for other spiritual beings if we allow that
    Explain what a spirit is, and then explain how using the word "conduit" to mean "human body" is in any way relevant.

    but generally speaking spirit beings have to be given access and the motives of the individual have to reflect both parties. In other words beings with similar motives can use each other but it is mutual in intentions and desires/actions
    Nothing in this makes sense, and it's not because you're writing at some higher level, it's because this is a bunch of rubbish.
    Access to the motives of the individual?
    WTF are you talking about?

    If the devil were to disguise his position maybe we wouldn't know...until the final outcome anyways.
    Which would mean an even worse final outcome, given we didn't follow the right entity.

    Are you saying you've been tricked by the Devil? 
    No, I'm pointing out one would have no idea if they were tricked by the devil, and what's worse is that they may be following the devil while thinking they're following god; they thinking they're doing "positive" but really they're just exacerbating the "negative."

    But again, this idea that there is some renegade devil that causes all evil is very immature TBH and is not based on reality.
    Yeah, and the idea that there are lower worlds with spirit conduits and divine sparks is very immature TBH.
    Those things are not based on reality.

    No need to get insulting I have no intentions of doing that so let's keep this clean.
    Did I bring up the word "immature" or did you?
    How was I insulting?
    You called my idea immature and I called your idea immature, yet when I did it it was insulting?
    Explain this double standard.
  • Tradesecret
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    1. God made the world. The devil did not. 
    Ok, but how do you know that the devil wasn't just masterfully disguised as god claiming to have made the world?
    How would you tell when the devil does something disguised as god and when god does something?
    I think that is obvious. If the devil made the world then why did God claim to make the world? God is not a liar. Yet nowhere do we read in the bible that Satan claimed to have made the world. God does make the claim. If the devil did make the world, then he is something other than the "devil" I am talking about when I answered your question above. I am talking about the God and the devil who are discussed in the Bible. You seem to be discussing or talking about a god and a devil that is something else than that represented in the bible.  
    2. God is divine. Satan is an angel who has fallen because he wanted to be God. God is omniscient and all knowing. Satan is neither. Neither is Satan all powerful. 
    How do you know that what you're calling divine isn't the devil disguised as god, and what tells you that this entity is divine?
    Before god created satan, did god have the foreknowledge that this creation would spawn the devil?
    If yes, then why didn't he stop it?
    I am talking about how God and the devil are described in the Bible. I don't particularly care how others describe either from outside of that revelation. Did God have the foreknowledge that Satan would be evil? I say the bible says yes. In fact God planned and foreordained this to be the case. Why did he not stop it? I don't know the answer to that question - nor do I actually need to have an answer. what I do know is that God made all things including Satan. I also know that God planned all things - and yet did so without sin. Could he stop Satan? Of course - and I would also argue that God has stopped Satan mostly. Satan does not have the power he used to have - his power has been seriously diluted. 

    3. What an interesting question? God does have the ability to destroy Satan, whatever gives you the idea that he does not?
    Well, he created satan knowing full well what would happen, therefore god allowed for the devil's existence or couldn't stop it from happening, and the devil apparently still exists today, yet goddy god is either choosing not to stop him, can't stop him, or, as I keep alluding to, the devil and god are one and the same, because there's no way to tell the difference between the two characters.
    I don't know what you have been alluding too. I don't have time to read all of your posts. The bible tells me that God and the Satan are two quite different entities. You might have a different perspective - but it does not arise solely from the Bible. Hence, irrelevant to me. As above, I indicated, the bible says God made all things including Satan. Indeed I say he planned his existence.  Satan has no power except what God has given him. We are not talking about two powers like black and white or dark and light like your Stars Wars films, Satan is smaller than an ant next to God. There is no match - it would be a complete mismatch. God even reduced the amount of power that Satan had by Jesus' death and resurrection where death was defeated. Satan can manipulate and taunt - and influence - but that is about it. Humanity all by itself is fallen enough to do enough evil for all of us. We don't need to blame everything evil that happens on the devil. We don't need to see demons under ever leaf. Our hearts are sinful and desperately wicked. 
    God could also destroy all of humanity quite justly. Yet, he is also merciful and patient. Satan knows his end.
    Why is he so merciful to satan?
    Is it because he created satan and evil and wants those both to remain?
    I think the Bible says that evil and Satan both remain until the time of judgment. I take the view that given this time before judgment is a small time compared to eternity that even in our minds in the future that it will seem like a blur. Nevertheless, that is me speculating. I don't know the answer to your question. I do know that God in the bible is slow to wrath and quick to forgive. I don't think Satan will be forgiven and the apparent mercy shown to him is probably a reflection of God's mercy to humanity. An indirect perception that flows from God's mercy to humanity. 

    Whenever God eventually destroys Satan will be the perfect time. 
    How do you know that god even has the ability to destroy the devil whom he knew the future of before creating?
    Because the God of the bible says he does. He will be thrown in to a pit of fire. 
  • MagicAintReal
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    --> @Tradesecret
     If the devil made the world then why did God claim to make the world? 
    I never said the devil made the world, I said how do you know when god claimed to make the world that it wasn't the devil deceiving you?

    God is not a liar. Yet nowhere do we read in the bible that Satan claimed to have made the world. God does make the claim
    Ok, how do you know that this god is not actually the devil deceiving you...of course the devil's not gonna put that secret in the bible, right?

    You seem to be discussing or talking about a god and a devil that is something else than that represented in the bible.  
    Nope, they're the ones I'm talking about, and you've yet to tell me the difference between the two.
    You said god claimed to make the world and the devil didn't and that's how you know the difference...does that make sense to you?

    I am talking about how God and the devil are described in the Bible. 
    And given how they are described, how do you tell the difference?

    Did God have the foreknowledge that Satan would be evil? I say the bible says yes. 
    God's a dick for creating evil and refusing to rid the world of evil even though it's all his fucking fault.

    Why did he not stop it? I don't know the answer to that question - nor do I actually need to have an answer. what I do know is that God made all things including Satan.
    How do you know satan didn't make god?

    I don't have time to read all of your posts.
    You're the one writing paragraphs, bro.

    The bible tells me that God and the Satan are two quite different entities. 
    Sounds like something the devil posing as god would want you to think.

    I had asked why is god merciful to satan...

    I don't know the answer to your question.
    Yep, most people don't.

    How do you know that god even has the ability to destroy the devil whom he knew the future of before creating?

    Because the God of the bible says he does. He will be thrown in to a pit of fire. 
    Sounds like something the devil would say.
  • Tradesecret
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     If the devil made the world then why did God claim to make the world? 
    I never said the devil made the world, I said how do you know when god claimed to make the world that it wasn't the devil deceiving you?
    I told you how I know. The Bible states that God made the world. The bible does not state that Satan was pretending to be God or trying to deceive us about this. the bible in no place gives us any indication that he could make the world or that he claimed to do the same. 
    God is not a liar. Yet nowhere do we read in the bible that Satan claimed to have made the world. God does make the claim
    Ok, how do you know that this god is not actually the devil deceiving you...of course the devil's not gonna put that secret in the bible, right?
    What a strange question?  The bible tells us that no one can call Jesus God without the Spirit of God enabling him to do so. Satan does not give glory to God. Jesus gave glory to God. His followers give glory to God. What possible reason could God be pretending that he is Satan? In the story of Job, God and Satan are clearly two different identities with different agendas. God tells us in the bible he does not deceive us - rather it is Satan who is the father of deceivers and liars. The devil did not write the bible - why would God allow him to put anything in it? 
    You seem to be discussing or talking about a god and a devil that is something else than that represented in the bible.  
    Nope, they're the ones I'm talking about, and you've yet to tell me the difference between the two.
    You said god claimed to make the world and the devil didn't and that's how you know the difference...does that make sense to you?
    Well if that is the case, then stick with what the bible tells us and don't go speculating about things which are obviously nonsense. God is the God who made everything that could be made.  Satan is a fallen angel. God is not everything though. He is not satan. He is not humanity. Satan is finite - God is infinite. God is omniscient. Satan is not. God is all powerful. Satan is not. God will judge Satan. Satan will not judge God. Satan has NO power over God. These are all clarified in the scriptures. The fact that God made the world and Satan did not is one clue, it is not the only one. 

    I am talking about how God and the devil are described in the Bible. 
    And given how they are described, how do you tell the difference?
    By their characters. God is holy. Satan is sinful. God gives glory to God. Satan does not give glory to God. 
    Did God have the foreknowledge that Satan would be evil? I say the bible says yes. 
    God's a dick for creating evil and refusing to rid the world of evil even though it's all his fucking fault.
    You are only betraying a very biased and subjective point of view about the state of the world. The bible says that God has provided the solution to the world's evil. It is not a band aid solution. He does not fly in like superman. He sent Jesus - in other words he came himself - to resolve the matter of the heart by paying the price for the sin that sinful human did. He could only do this because he was not a sinner like the rest of humanity. Satan had brought death to this world by seducing Eve in the garden of Eden. Jesus as the representative head of his people could similarly impart his righteousness to his people. You should read and learn up on covenants. 
    Why did he not stop it? I don't know the answer to that question - nor do I actually need to have an answer. what I do know is that God made all things including Satan.
    How do you know satan didn't make god?
    Because God was not made. He is eternal. Satan however was and remains finite. It is not plausible that a finite being created by God also made the same infinite God who made all things. But believe all you like. 

    The bible tells me that God and the Satan are two quite different entities. 
    Sounds like something the devil posing as god would want you to think.
    Well you had better explain yourself. Why would God be perfectly holy and perfect and who cannot lie on one hand also in total contradiction to everything that he is - also be Satan - to the point that he is lying to us all. If that were the case, then Satan exists and God is a fabrication of our minds. and of this is the case, then all that is good in this universe - from love, kindness, mercy, forgiveness, and grace are all fabrications as well. 


    I had asked why is god merciful to satan...

    I don't know the answer to your question.
    Yep, most people don't.
    Yes, I don't know. I am not sure that God is being merciful to Satan. As I said above in speculation, it really seems to me that God is being merciful to humanity - and that due to this mercy by indirect means - an externality if you like, that provides an illusion to some people that God is being merciful to Satan. And if we think about it, what is the mercy shown? He is drawing out Satan's long and torturous sentence over generations. Satan's reputation continues to be tarnished and destroyed and his followers fewer and fewer. Is this mercy or something else? I don't have an answer to the question - because the question really has not been sufficiently asked. 
    How do you know that god even has the ability to destroy the devil whom he knew the future of before creating?

    Because the God of the bible says he does. He will be thrown in to a pit of fire. 
    Sounds like something the devil would say.
    Why?