How Do You Know When The Devil's Playing Tricks?

Author: MagicAintReal

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@Tradesecret
Ok, so basically you're telling me that you know the difference between god and satan, because the bible says god is eternal and good and that satan is finite and bad, right?

Ok, follow me here.
How do you know that the bible itself, the commands it gives you, and the descriptions of what god is weren't all constructed by the devil?
How do you know what the bible says isn't just the ramblings of the devil?

If you can't know whether or not the devil is tricking you with this book, then it could be that all of the reasons you've provided me for why god is different than satan are only substantiated by the devil.

Do you understand that consequence?
Explain to me how one would feel to learn their holy book was written by its antithesis.
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@disgusted
Each of them in conjunction with Superman, Batman and Wonderwoman collaborate to ensure absolutely everything happens. If something happens you can bet it's the result of the actions of those five.
This actually makes perfect sense.
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@Tradesecret
We all know God cannot be proved by anything other than a divine measuring tool. Do you have one of those? We all know that God cannot be disproved because it is impossible to prove a negative. 

I believe that the God who has revealed himself through the Scriptures of the OT and the NT is God.
This is your entire argument in a nutshell. You admit God can't be proven to exist or proven not to exist, hence your entire belief system of God is based on what's written in Scriptures, which is a book written by other men who also cannot prove God exists. Hence, you believe in God because other people told you he exists, people who have the exact same amount of information about God as you do, which is no information at all.
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A Divine measuring tool , ummmmmm.  You're talking about a banana right ?
 
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Huh!! A thread dedicated to me at last, I was starting to feel a bit anxious. I have several things to say but I really don't know where to start off.

1. First of all, I don't exist in the real world. I mean, I do but in an abstract way. You know, people oftentimes use metaphors to explain things that are difficult to understand. So, who am I? I'm just a concept that describes the evil escence of human beings. I inhabit each human mind that ever walked on this planet. I am, in simple words, the human ego, the only oponent that ever existed for human beings. Because of me people crave power and fortune. Ahhh, poor people, because of me they are killing each other and making the world a horrible place. I always wonder how long this is going to last.

2. People usually confuse me with disgusting characters, like a red creature with corns and a big fork. This is all bs. All this stuff started to appear, if the memory serves me correctly, in the Renaissance, when the church used the arts (painting and sculpture) to describe their already untenable beliefs in a way to attract more believers.

3. You might be wondering why people think the devil is an invisible monster always tricking them. Well, this is all about psychological projection. As you know this is a defense mechanism that people's subconciousness use to cope with their tough feelings. People are uncapable to admit that all the shet they do in this world is their fault simply because that would entail an unbearable remorse. So, people project their moronic acts to an another being, which is the devil. People did not create the devil, they just redefined it for their benefit.

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@IlDiavolo
Something tells me not to trust you...
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@MagicAintReal
It's not about trust. You just need to read the history of humanity and you will see that what I said makes a lot of sense.

Knowledge is freedom. Ignorance is slavery.

Il Diavolo
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@MagicAintReal

Which leaves us with an extremely embarrassing question for the theist doesn't it?
Yeah, so I want to see how a theist wriggles out of this.
So, is the sole aim of your entire post entrapment?

Do you already have all the answers before asking the questions?
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@EtrnlVw

Would you be willing to examine this from more of a conceptual framework and not such a literal one? I take a more universal approach to spiritual texts but I can make sense of the questions anyways. Some people get queasy though if answers aren't strictly found in the Bible, but then why ask in the first place..

1. Can you explain how you know when things have been done by god and when things have been done by the devil who has masterfully disguised something to look like it was done by god?

In creation you have two forces (or pairs of forces), opposing forces, and they work together or against one another to enable experience allowing for activity between the two poles or even at two extremes. Without opposing forces which creates contrast and separation there can be no creation. In this realm you have both the negative force and the positive force working and everything in between, and these forces are typically manifested through vessels. Vessels being the souls that inhabit this planet and even those that are foreign to it or outside it which can have influence. 
While not everything in creation is so black and white it's typically easy to see what is positive and what is negative. More so as it relates to us personally though, obviously.
Since the Creator is all encompassing, or rather all of creation comes from out of God and all of creation is within the conscious reality/nature of God everything is a manifestation of that one Source and all created souls and beings become their own mini-creator in the worlds of God. And because of this it is the individual created souls and beings that are mediums for either force. 

Not everything is either caused by some devil or by God, that is not how creation works. Generally speaking it's the vessels that are the conduits for either the positive forces or the negative. 
Whether one takes a literal understanding of what the "devil" represents in scripture or a more figurative application, the devil is usually the representative of the negative forces as a whole not just a singular entity. I know the scriptures paint out a picture there is an actual devil running loose causing problems (which there may be) but there is another way of looking at it and understanding how these forces play out in this realm.
This is a cause and effect creation which means we are responsible for everything that happens on this planet because all things comes through our decisions and actions and desires, not Gods or the devils. I know that is a bit unorthodox but I'm not a fundamentalist anyways, my beliefs are not limited to one source so keep that in mind.
To answer your question more literal, if there was a "devil" masterfully disguising a negative action maybe we wouldn't know, does it really matter? maybe I don't see the point of the question it seems odd. If the devil were to disguise his position maybe we wouldn't know...until the final outcome anyways. But again, this idea that there is some renegade devil that causes all evil is very immature TBH and is not based on reality. 

2. How do you tell the difference between god and the devil in general?

Well as I stated all beings are created from a singular Source and is an expression of that Reality, nothing is outside of that. However, each soul has been given the Divine spark which is the creative abilities and imagination and is free to become what it wants in creation and there are many, many souls and beings on all levels of creation way beyond this one alone. All these beings are channeling their own desires and wishes and they become the conduit of whatever force they want. 
The question changes when you understand the nature of the soul and how the created worlds operate. Basically there is no distinction between the nature of the create soul and that of the Creator, only the perception the individual takes on in a limited state of conscious awareness.


3. Why is it that god had the ability to create the devil, but has not the ability destroy him?


Generally speaking souls are eternal once they are individualized. The soul cannot be destroyed even though there is a verse in the Bible that says it can be. That is untrue though, the actual soul cannot be destroyed just like energy cannot be destroyed. The ego can be destroyed and the bodies that souls inhabit in creation can be terminated but the actual soul is eternal. Once it is individualized/created that's it, it is final. That individualized soul gets to become whatever it wants and represent whatever force it wants, that is point of creation. God experiences everything through all channels, all vessels, the Creator has direct access to your channel of consciousness and experiences right through you, right through your own experiences. This is the investment the Creator has in all of this. 

I did not have to read the whole response to determine that your ideas are pantheistic, very Buddhism.
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@MagicAintReal

Did God have the foreknowledge that Satan would be evil? I say the bible says yes. 
God's a dick for creating evil and refusing to rid the world of evil even though it's all his fucking fault.
I get a kick out of when an atheist who denies God criticizes the same God for being unfair. There seems to be a contradiction there. The same person who denies His existence grants it for the purpose of calling Him names. 

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@PGA2.0
Any good lawyer would.
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@PGA2.0
I get a kick out of when an atheist who denies God criticizes the same God for being unfair. There seems to be a contradiction there. The same person who denies His existence grants it for the purpose of calling Him names. 
I get a kick out of when someone without an actual response to posed questions conflates a hypothetical question for insults.
Besides inferior opinions, do you have any response to my questions?
If god does exist, how do you tell him apart from the devil?
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@MagicAintReal
Slipping good in the same sentence with lawyer, hmm

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@Plisken
hahah touche.
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@MagicAintReal

I get a kick out of when an atheist who denies God criticizes the same God for being unfair. There seems to be a contradiction there. The same person who denies His existence grants it for the purpose of calling Him names. 
I get a kick out of when someone without an actual response to posed questions conflates a hypothetical question for insults.
I would say your tone was insulting for those who revere God - i.e., "God's a dick for creating evil and refusing to rid the world of evil even though it's all his fucking fault."

I was noting what you said. But if you want to go further, I thought your opening liner was condescending and contentious also - "For people into old 
goddy god,"

(Just my personal opinion if you are interested - no offense intended, just observation) 

Besides inferior opinions, do you have any response to my questions?
Pot, meet kettle! You have attacked my opinions as inferior. 

If god does exist, how do you tell him apart from the devil?

I go to the source of the revelation and reason it out. Since I am a professing Christian the only God I accept is the Judaeo-Christain God as revealed in Scripture. 

***

For people into old goddy god,

1. Can you explain how you know when things have been done by god and when things have been done by the devil who has masterfully disguised something to look like it was done by god?
God created humans in His image and likeness. That means they have a volition. They are not robots. 
God tests, He does not tempt.
The message of salvation is a good message. 
God's message through prophecy gives a good, logical reason to believe that what He says is true. 


2. How do you tell the difference between god and the devil in general?
Good v. evil.

God is good, pure and holy. There is no evil in Him.

The devil was not an omniscient being and did not have your goodness as his prime motive, just to please himself. 


3. Why is it that god had the ability to create the devil, but has not the ability destroy him?
I believe that God has already judge Satan/the devil. We just witness the aftermath, his influence is still with us. 

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@MagicAintReal

Any good lawyer would.
Are you a lawyer then?
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@MagicAintReal
Yeah, so I want to see how a theist wriggles out of this.
Continually spamming a series of appeal to ignorance laced questions isn't exactly wriggle inducing. :\

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@Logical-Master
Hence why you can't respond like all of the other theists...go write another biased RFD
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@MagicAintReal
That's my response. That it flew over your head is not my problem. =)
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@Logical-Master
Really, how are the questions in the OP appeals to ignorance?
This should be good.
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@MagicAintReal
Any conclusion drawn on the premise that X cannot proven (i.e. how do you know the devil didn't write the the Bible to deceive you?) is literally an appeal to ignorance.
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Here's a Jewish answer for you!

There is no such thing as the devil or fallen angels. Satan in Hebrew means "opposer" or "accuser." The first time the word Satan appears in the Bible is Numbers 22:22


כבוַיִּֽחַר־אַ֣ף אֱלֹהִים֘ כִּֽי־הוֹלֵ֣ךְ הוּא֒ וַיִּתְיַצֵּ֞ב מַלְאַ֧ךְ יְהֹוָ֛ה בַּדֶּ֖רֶךְ לְשָׂטָ֣ן ל֑וֹ וְהוּא֙ רֹכֵ֣ב עַל־אֲתֹנ֔וֹ וּשְׁנֵ֥י נְעָרָ֖יו עִמּֽוֹ:

God's wrath flared because he was going, and an angel of the Lord stationed himself on the road to thwart (satan) him, and he was riding on his she-donkey, and his two servants were with him.


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@David
There is no such thing as the devil or fallen angels. Satan in Hebrew means "opposer" or "accuser." The first time the word Satan appears in the Bible is Numbers 22:22


כבוַיִּֽחַר־אַ֣ף אֱלֹהִים֘ כִּֽי־הוֹלֵ֣ךְ הוּא֒ וַיִּתְיַצֵּ֞ב מַלְאַ֧ךְ יְהֹוָ֛ה בַּדֶּ֖רֶךְ לְשָׂטָ֣ן ל֑וֹ וְהוּא֙ רֹכֵ֣ב עַל־אֲתֹנ֔וֹ וּשְׁנֵ֥י נְעָרָ֖יו עִמּֽוֹ:

God's wrath flared because he was going, and an angel of the Lord stationed himself on the road to thwart (satan) him, and he was riding on his she-donkey, and his two servants were with him.
This was the best answer so far, and effectively shows how to tell the difference between god and the devil...there is no devil.

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@Logical-Master
Any conclusion drawn on the premise that X cannot proven (i.e. how do you know the devil didn't write the the Bible to deceive you?) is literally an appeal to ignorance. 
What conclusion did I draw with the OP questions?
How are questions logical fallacies, when you just admitted here that one needs to conclude something?

Here's what I asked...direct me to the conclusion:
"Can you explain how you know when things have been done by god and when things have been done by the devil who has masterfully disguised something to look like it was done by god?"

Where's the conclusion?
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@MagicAintReal
Which is why I say your questions are laced with the fallacy. The fact that a Christian cannot prove that the devil wrote the Bible and isn't simply playing some crazed game of 4D chess with them is of no concern to a Christian whatsoever just as the fact you cannot prove you aren't currently hooked up to some massive energy draining machine from The Matrix should be of no concern to you either! Now if you actually agree with this and are legitimately curious about Christianity, I'm happy to retract my accusation. =)
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@MagicAintReal
This was the best answer so far, and effectively shows how to tell the difference between god and the devil...there is no devil.

Exactly! Satan has absolutely no power except the power that God gives him. There is no devil. 
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@Logical-Master
Which is why I say your questions are laced with the fallacy.
Hahaha, nice hedge, but the assertive "is literally an appeal to ignorance" was not referencing my questions when I asked where the conclusions were?
Come on.

The fact that a Christian cannot prove that the devil wrote the Bible...
...highlights the inability to tell the difference between the two characters?

you cannot prove you aren't currently hooked up to some massive energy draining machine from The Matrix should be of no concern to you either! 
Right, but if I were claiming that I can tell the difference between Neo and Agent Smith and you asked me, how do you know if Neo's not just Agent Smith fuckin' with you, and I'm all like well the Matrix says Neo's Neo and Agent Smith's Agent Smith, this didn't go to any length to distinguish the two characters.
This is the problem.

 Now if you actually agree with this and are legitimately curious about Christianity, I'm happy to retract my accusation. =)
Yeah, I want to know how you attribute the effects you believe are of god's doing exclusively to god, and, if it's the case there is another entity that's made by god, really powerful, eager to go against god, and wont to play tricks on people, how do you exclude the devil's involvement?
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@MagicAintReal
Hahaha, nice hedge, but the assertive "is literally an appeal to ignorance" was not referencing my questions when I asked where the conclusions were? Come on.
When you throw in comments like wanting to see theist "wriggle' around your questions, refer to God as "goody god" and consistently believe that lowercasing the g in God (proper noun btw) actually means something, your purpose and conclusions in making this thread are pretty implicit. Feel free to clarify otherwise though! =)

Right, but if I were claiming that I can tell the difference between Neo and Agent Smith and you asked me, how do you know if Neo's not just Agent Smith fuckin' with you, and I'm all like well the Matrix says Neo's Neo and Agent Smith's Agent Smith, this didn't go to any length to distinguish the two characters. This is the problem.
No, that's not a problem. That'd just be a method of reasoning you were arbitrarily determined to exclude to the Matrix as opposed to applying in any other avenue of life. Maybe you are in the Matrix. Prove you're not by means other than "I say so." Hell, maybe Agent Smith has deliberately made the film The Matrix to keep us none the wiser about that the events of a seemingly fictional film are in fact being the reality of things. Prove that's not what's happening. And don't mind me, but I'm just legitimately curious as to whether we live in the Matrix.

Yeah, I want to know how you attribute the effects you believe are of god's doing exclusively to god, and, if it's the case there is another entity that's made by god, really powerful, eager to go against god, and wont to play tricks on people, how do you exclude the devil's involvement?
From a Christian standpoint, we can close the book on the "the devil is pulling all the strings" theory with Matthew 12:22-28. The devil is not going to partake in anything that goes against his own house, including the principle of Christians rejecting their sinful nature and living by their faith and works. That's just silly. Now if you can actually demonstrate through scripture why this theory is worth any more consideration than us being in the Matrix, I'm happy to discuss it further! Hell, look at it from non-theist standpoint: Why in the world should Harry Potter fans consider for one moment that Voldemort is secretly Harry's twin transsexual counterpart from the 12th dimension? Voldemort is a pretty tricky bastard after-all! 
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@Logical-Master
From a Christian standpoint, we can close the book on the "the devil is pulling all the strings" theory with Matthew 12:22-28.
Yes, this is exactly what I was trying to get to with my questions...I'm here to learn too, what does Matt 12:22-28 say on the matter?

The devil is not going to partake in anything that goes against his own house,
So if good things are happening, it can't be the devil?

Now if you can actually demonstrate through scripture why this theory is worth any more consideration than us being in the Matrix, I'm happy to discuss it further!
Well, if it's the case that the devil will not partake in anything that goes against his house, how do you know everything in his house?
Where's that list?
Genuinely asking here.

Hell, look at it from non-theist standpoint: Why in the world should Harry Potter fans consider for one moment that Voldemort is secretly Harry's twin transsexual counterpart from the 12th dimension? Voldemort is a pretty tricky bastard after-all! 
HAHAHAH awesome.
If Valdemort were wont to be transsexual and behaved regularly in the 12th dimension then this analogy would hold.
However, the devil is known to play tricks, known to try to deceive people, and known to be very powerful, so wouldn't it be well within his house to deceive people with a book?
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@PGA2.0
I would say your tone was insulting for those who revere God
Not only is your tone insulting but most of what you write is to the billions who don't revere your particular god, just one of many.