White House issues marching orders to media outlets

Author: cristo71

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@Sidewalker
Largest Percentage of Americans Still Identify as Independents
When Gallup began conducting its interviews exclusively by telephone in 1988, there were similar proportions of Democrats, Republicans and independents in the U.S. In the early 1990s, independents began to outnumber Republicans and Democrats, but that advantage faded in the early 2000s.
However, since 2009, independent identification has grown and reached levels not seen before. Now, political independents (41%) greatly outnumber Republican (28%) and Democratic (28%) identifiers.

Most people in America, in fact, do not conform to either tribe.


So if you were to try to explain this trend, Government started sucking so badly around the early 2000's that Americans started to abandon both parties with an acceleration around 2009, thanks to the crap policies passed by GWB and a Democrat Congress. (and Iraq war)

8 years of TDS still hasn't done anything to reverse this, so it really doesn't matter if you are in a far left or far right tribe. The independents are the majority tribe still.
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@Sidewalker
One good thing to note is that no matter how hard both parties work to continue to polarize the country in the media, there is still 40%+ of the country that flips the middle finger at both established elite parties. Whatever they think is working actually is not.
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there is still 40%+ of the country that flips the middle finger at both established elite parties
95% of Americans are low information voters. They don’t know what’s going on. Independents have know idea what they want, or who they are voting for.

We live in a country where the people elect idiots like Sarah Palin and Donald Trump..

A country where people watch FOX News instead of The NewsHour.

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@Greyparrot
Largest Percentage of Americans Still Identify as Independents
Yeah, its a good strategy. Identify as independent while wearing MAGA hat and supporting Trump in everything he does.

Of course you are independent. Yesh you are! Yesh you are!
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@cristo71
The Whitehouse memo and CNN article betray a rather “cozy” relationship between government power and the “free and independent”institution charged with keeping that power in check, which undermines the public trust in its institutions.
That makes no sense. If they had a cozy relationship, Biden wouldn’t have sent the letter in the first place.

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@Best.Korea
I wonder why so many people are ashamed to wear a Biden hat?
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@Greyparrot
Biden doesnt need a hat. He won the popular vote.
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@Best.Korea
Oh so he can go back to his basement again. Good plan.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
So, by your reasoning, every administration which does NOT issue an exhortation to the press DOES have a compliant media?
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@Greyparrot
They sure voted for him
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@Greyparrot
8 years of TDS still hasn't done anything to reverse this, so it really doesn't matter if you are in a far left or far right tribe. The independents are the majority tribe still.
That has nothing to do with it, you are creating a false duality, TDS is not a matter of partisanship, the Trump party is neither Democrat nor Republican, it's fascist populism.   

The true duality of your so-called "TDS" is a matter of Democracy vs Fascism. 
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@Greyparrot
One good thing to note is that no matter how hard both parties work to continue to polarize the country in the media, there is still 40%+ of the country that flips the middle finger at both established elite parties.
Yeah yeah, that's what MAGA wants us to believe, it's those dang political parties that polarize the country, not Trump, he's here to save us from those political parties and their evil democracy. 

It's MAGA flipping the finger at the Democratic Process, flipping the finger at Law Enforcement, flipping the finger at a Free Press, flipping the finger at Egalitarianism, in the end, they are flipping the finger at Americans.

Whatever they think is working actually is not.
Yeah, Trump will fix it, just do away with democracy and that pesky law and order and we can Make America Great Again.
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@Sidewalker
 TDS is not a matter of partisanship

I should have clarified "the TDS movement" which is most certainly a campaign to recruit more people to the Democrat party.

that's what MAGA wants us to believe,
What "MAGA" (the opposite of the TDS movement} wants to portray is that more people are registering as republican, and republicans are the party that wants to make america great again...put america first...etc.

Clearly that isn't happening by looking at the data.
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@cristo71
every administration which does NOT issue an exhortation to the press DOES have a compliant media?
By compliant you mean a cozy relationship? No, that also makes no sense. But not making sense is what Republicans do best.

If the press is doing their job of reporting the facts, then there is no need to send them a letter asking them to do their job.

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I wonder why so many people are ashamed to wear a Biden hat?
Wearing ball caps is a MAGA Moron thing. Imagine being an adult and saying, oh I need to put on a ball cap before I leave the house. They are like children. They have the brain of a child. I’m surprised they don’t wear pin wheel hats.

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@IwantRooseveltagain
If the press is doing their job of reporting the facts, then there is no need to send them a letter asking them to do their job.
You don’t think the press has been doing its job properly?

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@cristo71
You don’t think the press has been doing its job properly?

Well if you haven’t noticed, years ago, Republicans started banning real media from their events because they don’t like the questions or the scrutiny. Republicans need friendly media like FOX News so they can spew their nonsense unchallenged.

The press responded by being friendlier to conservatives when they lie, letting their nonsense go unchallenged so they will come back again. Ever since Tim Russert died and FOX News became big, Republicans have been less and less available to credible, professional journalists.





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@cristo71
You don’t think the press has been doing its job properly?

Good question.
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@Greyparrot
And it still stands.
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@cristo71
The Whitehouse memo and CNN article betray a rather “cozy” relationship between government power and the “free and independent”institution charged with keeping that power in check, which undermines the public trust in its institutions.
Does it actually portray a cozy relationship, or just an alignment between them regarding the facts at hand? I would argue the only thing your example demonstrates is the latter which I personally don't find worthy of attention or concern. 

The facts aren't really debatable either, republicans have said themselves the whole point of the impeachment inquiry is to give them the power to find the evidence (which itself is not even true). So what are news networks supposed to do with that? There is a difference between objective journalism and neutral journalism. Their job is to be the former, not the latter.

The rest of your post on this part is an extension of this same issue. You are portraying MSM through CNN of not being what it's supposed to be with regards to its role in our political eco system, but the only reason you believe this clip supports that notion is because you already accept that conclusion. So essentially its begging the question. You can easily say the same is true of me, that I reject your notion because of my preconceptions, which I don't disagree with, but that's why we need to begin with the facts at hand. Do the republicans have any evidence to warrant their actions? The answer to that question leads to the rest.

Fox comprises one out of 3 cable networks and one out of… I don’t know… 10 major news outlets?
And yet Fox news is by far the largest out of all of them, so painting it as merely 1 out of 10 Isa fallacious attempt to minimize its impact.

If you believe our country is fairly evenly split between right wing consumers vs left wing consumers, and you believe the vast majority of right wing viewers are not getting their information from CNN or MSNBC, then you cannot argue the other "10 major outlets" comprise of the majority of news consummation.

As I said, you don’t see Fox News as comparable to CNN at all. Doesn’t CNN et al hold themselves to a higher standard? Yet you wish to directly compare them when it suits you.
CNN does hold itself to a higher standard, the issue is that Fox and more importantly it's viewership pretend Fox is right on par. I don't take issue with blasting CNN for being "unjournalistic" provided we all accept that Fox and nearly all of its right wing co-networks are not up to that standard.

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Here’s an honest question for you: why do you think the Whitehouse included Fox News, the pro GOP outlier, in the memo? I don’t actually have a good working theory on that decision…

Also, why wouldn’t you issue such a memo?
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Does it actually portray a cozy relationship, or just an alignment between them regarding the facts at hand? I would argue the only thing your example demonstrates is the latter which I personally don't find worthy of attention or concern. 

The facts aren't really debatable either, republicans have said themselves the whole point of the impeachment inquiry is to give them the power to find the evidence (which itself is not even true). So what are news networks supposed to do with that? There is a difference between objective journalism and neutral journalism. Their job is to be the former, not the latter.

The rest of your post on this part is an extension of this same issue. You are portraying MSM through CNN of not being what it's supposed to be with regards to its role in our political eco system, but the only reason you believe this clip supports that notion is because you already accept that conclusion. So essentially its begging the question. You can easily say the same is true of me, that I reject your notion because of my preconceptions, which I don't disagree with, but that's why we need to begin with the facts at hand. Do the republicans have any evidence to warrant their actions? The answer to that question leads to the rest.
(This is a retype from an accidental deletion, so it might be rushed)

Your false presumptions aside, I’m afraid that all this misses my point: the Whitehouse went out of its lane in the memo, and CNN reporter Oliver Darcy not only failed to point this out, he basically spent his entire article validating the memo. Whether media is “in alignment” or not with the Whitehouse should be purely incidental to its central job of reporting “without passion or prejudice.” If the Whitehouse doesn’t stay within its role, the media response should be pushback, not compliance! As I already said, look at Darcy’s coverage of the Trump rally— nothing but pushback in that coverage.

I’m finding myself just repeating or rewording what I have already said at length. If you truly don’t get… or align with what I’m saying, then we will have to agree to disagree.

And yet Fox news is by far the largest out of all of them, so painting it as merely 1 out of 10 Isa fallacious attempt to minimize its impact.
“Painting” it as 1 out of 10? It actually is!

As for breadth of impact, if you can, cite the stats that show Fox has greater influence than CNN, MSNBC, NYT, ABC, CBS, NBC, and AP combined. If you cannot, well… I think you know what that means…

If you believe our country is fairly evenly split between right wing consumers vs left wing consumers, and you believe the vast majority of right wing viewers are not getting their information from CNN or MSNBC, then you cannot argue the other "10 major outlets" comprise of the majority of news consummation.
And if I do not believe those things, then your conclusion does not apply to me.

I don't take issue with blasting CNN for being "unjournalistic" provided we all accept that Fox and nearly all of its right wing co-networks are not up to that standard.
I already conceded this about Fox in my post. You often respond as though I have not said what I have said.
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@Double_R
If you believe our country is fairly evenly split between right wing consumers vs left wing consumers, 
It's actually not. The split is 30%/30% for establishment parties.

40% of America is independent.
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@Greyparrot
Point out one of many reasons for the public’s growing mistrust in our institutions, and you get “But Trump tho!” It never seems to occur to them that part (or much) of Trump’s popularity is precisely because of that mistrust.
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@cristo71
A recent ABC/WAPO poll had Trump ahead of Biden by 10 percentage points.

Independents simply don't trust the usual suspects.
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@cristo71
Here’s an honest question for you: why do you think the Whitehouse included Fox News, the pro GOP outlier, in the memo? I don’t actually have a good working theory on that decision…
I don't either. To take a shot in the dark... I'd guess it was a PR move to avoid people like yourself using it to claim this memo proves the MSM and the democrats are working together.

Also, why wouldn’t you issue such a memo?
Because the White House shouldn't be dictating to media outlets what they cover, so the letter is a lose lose. If they cover it because of the letter they've crossed the line, if they cover it regardless of their programming preferences then it didn't make a difference.

the Whitehouse went out of its lane in the memo, and CNN reporter Oliver Darcy not only failed to point this out, he basically spent his entire article validating the memo. Whether media is “in alignment” or not with the Whitehouse should be purely incidental to its central job of reporting “without passion or prejudice.” If the Whitehouse doesn’t stay within its role, the media response should be pushback, not compliance!
If I tell you to tie your shoes before you leave the house tomorrow and you do, is that compliance?

You call it compliance because you seem to disregard the fact that Darcy didn't say anything he nor the network hasn't been saying repeatedly for weeks... because it's true, and reporting the truth is exactly what the media is supposed to do.

I do get what you're saying, and it's true it would have looked better if Darcy included the disclaimer that the Biden WH should not telling media networks what to cover, but again, that's only a concern here and if you already believe there's something nefarious going on in the first place. Without that, your entire gripe is nothing more than a process criticism, which I sincerely doubt you would have found worthy of a whole thread.

I’m finding myself just repeating or rewording what I have already said at length. If you truly don’t get… or align with what I’m saying, then we will have to agree to disagree.
I get what you're saying completely. Again, it all begins with the underlying facts of the story the memo pointed to, if we disagree on that the rest we're going to disagree on.

if you can, cite the stats that show Fox has greater influence than CNN, MSNBC, NYT, ABC, CBS, NBC, and AP combined.
I didn't say Fox alone had higher viewership, I'm talking about right wing media which includes the other networks, podcasts and talk radio.

But to this point, not about to go crazy with Google but here is something I found rather quickly...

"According to Comscore TV Essentials® data, viewership decreased for CNN and MSNBC but increased for Fox News in 2022. The average audience (defined as the average number of TVs tuned to a program throughout a time period) for the prime news time slot (8 to 11 p.m.) decreased by 25% for CNN, from 1.1 million in 2021 to 828,000 in 2022. MSNBC’s audience declined by 6% over this period, from about 881,000 to 827,000. On the other hand, Fox News’ audience increased from 1.9 million in 2021 to 2.1 million in 2022, a 10% increase."

So in the prime time slot on Fox news they had 2.1 million viewers vs 1.6 million viewers on CNN and MSNBC combined.

Point out one of many reasons for the public’s growing mistrust in our institutions, and you get “But Trump tho!” It never seems to occur to them that part (or much) of Trump’s popularity is precisely because of that mistrust.
But that mistrust is not based on facts, that's the point. It's all propaganda, which is a large part of my point here. The fact that the republicans are trying to paint Biden as some crime family mob boss with absolutely no evidence and yet CNN's pointing to this fact is twisted as evidence of media compliance is a perfect illustration of it.

Trump's popularity was a product of Fox News's old "truth teller" strategy; tell it's viewers what they wanted to hear rather than what was true and then tell their audience that they are the only ones willing to tell the truth. It's quite a lucrative deal. You gain a faithful following because no one else is feeding it's audience what they want, and then you lock them in by isolating them by getting them to distrust everyone else. We've seen this strategy play out many times over from Alex Jones to Andrew Tate.

Trump is Frankenstein, Fox news and the republican party are what created him. They made their money and gained their power by manipulating their audience/constituency and now it's outgown them. Mitt Romney said not a single republican talks about Trump any differently behind the scenes than he does publicly. They all understand full well what a jackass he is along with the people who actually think he's some hero fighting for them.
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@Double_R
I'd guess it was a PR move to avoid people like yourself using it to claim this memo proves the MSM and the democrats are working together. 
Oh, Zing!! I just now looked up the Fox article on this. It gives pushback to the memo. Neither of us should be surprised.

Because the White House shouldn't be dictating to media outlets what they cover,
Ok, this shows you get half of what I’m saying.

If I tell you to tie your shoes before you leave the house tomorrow and you do, is that compliance?
And this shows that you’re completely missing the other half. Yes, that is compliance! The proper response would be one of pushback, such as “I don’t need you to tell me when to tie my shoes, thank you.” This is NOT about whether the instruction is congruent with reality.

The media response could and should have been something along these lines: “While this news organization has no issue with the actual contents of the Whitehouse memo from a factual standpoint, we do consider the issuance of such a memo to be a breach of decorum. A free and independent press is pivotal to sustaining our democracy and cannot afford  even the appearance of having a cooperative and compliant relationship with the very governmental power we are charged with keeping accountable. The unintended irony of the Whitehouse instructing media to keep the GOP controlled House accountable cannot be overstated.”

In itself, this is not a HUGE deal. What IS a big deal is the growing mistrust much of the citizenry has for many of our institutions. This particular misstep (as I see it) between the Whitehouse and a major media outlet is yet another in a long list of reasons for this growing mistrust.

But that mistrust is not based on facts, that's the point.
This is just as I predicted. I’m fully aware this is what you believe, therefor you will have set a very high bar for that belief to be challenged. I have offered a factual Whitehouse overreach (which you agree as constituting overreach), and I have offered an example of compliance with that overreach, which you do not agree to. I fully understand that this is insufficient to pass over the high bar you have set. I expect this to be the case, as it is human nature.

Clearly, the agenda is to paint any right wing mistrust in institutions as ill-founded. Everyone knows that the only rational mistrust comes from the left.
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@cristo71
In itself, this is not a HUGE deal. What IS a big deal is the growing mistrust much of the citizenry has for many of our institutions. This particular misstep (as I see it) between the Whitehouse and a major media outlet is yet another in a long list of reasons for this growing mistrust.
I agree that the mistrust in our institutions is a huge deal, the question is what is driving it which we seem to have very different views on.

On the one hand, you're holding up an example of a cable news network failing to provide a proper disclaimer while covering a political story. On the other hand, I'm pointing to a former president and current front runner who routinely calls the free press the enemy of the people, attacks the FBI, attacks federal judges, attacks the national archives, attacks public health officials, and claims the current administration has successfully weaponized the federal government as an instrument to jail his political opponents (all with no evidence).

And then when I compare the two you act as if I'm engaging in logical fallacies. I'm not. If you're trying to cut back on monthly expenses, you look at that $500 a month car lease before worrying about the $7.99 you're spending on Disney plus.

If you really care about building back trust in public institutions, this isn't the place to focus your energy.

I’m fully aware this is what you believe, therefor you will have set a very high bar for that belief to be challenged.
The bar is that which aligns with reality, reached by following the basic principals of logic and epistemology. Present an argument with true premises from which your conclusion follows and I'll agree with you.

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@Double_R
Even after I say this:

“…yet another in a long list of reasons for this growing mistrust.”

… meaning that this thread topic is just one of “a long list of reasons.” You respond as though I didn’t just say this. You pretend as if this is the one and only example in existence. Whereas you see Trump as the source of this mistrust, I see him as more of a symptom or even a result of this mistrust. The former is mistrust on command (I guess?), while the latter constitutes a mutual agreement that mistrust exists and is warranted.
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@cristo71
I understand you said it was just one example in a long list, my point was that this is an example you clearly felt was representative of that list. And honestly, it in my experience it is exactly the kind of thing conservatives point to when making these arguments. It's why I talk about this with confidence, if there were better examples someone would have provided them by now.

But back to the point, yes I see Trump as a major cause where you see him as a symptom. I agree with you in the sense that this didn't start with Trump, it's been growing probably a good 40 years now going back to Regan's "government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem" speech. That kind of philosophy can really only lead to this outcome - a point where there exists an entire media ecosystem built on telling people no one or there can be trusted and that the cause of their problems is [insert villain here]. Trump is just the one who took it mainstream.

Anyone can be villainized. When you have that level of resources devoted towards finding anything about you or your organization to highlight as an example of your untrustworthyness or worse, coupled with an audience looking to validate the preconceived notions you helped create there's only one way this goes.