is it a juvenile view to think we&#39;re slaves to society?

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10.10.2023 02:04AM

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10.10.2023 02:04AM

the average worker is a slave to society.... essentially a slave to the powerful. it's not outright slavery, but it basically is. there is an element of violence imposed on the average worker, cause he has no means of changing the system other than the electoral process

i said that to someone i respect a lot, and they said it's a juvenile world view. i view it as just calling a spade a spade. what do ya'll think?

#2

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10.10.2023 02:24AM

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10.10.2023 02:24AM

It just depends on your defintion of a slave. I disagree with the person that said we're all slaves but he/she can simply take the definition that matches with their ideology

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#3

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10.10.2023 02:30AM

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@Kouen

if you dont want to call it slavery, what would you call it? you do acknowledge that the average person must work 40 hours a week for most of his adult life just to survive, and he has no choice in the matter other than to be poor or homeless as the alternative?

#4

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10.10.2023 02:46AM

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@n8nrgim

Again, it's all a question of definitions. For me to call someone a slave, there would have to be a person or people that literally own that person and forces them to do specific work for them.

You're not forced to do anything you can choose your job you can be self-employed, an entrepreneur, etc., you have a choice, a slave has no choice.

If your point is that people have to work long and hard just to survive, well, would you call the tribes slaves too?

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#5

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10.10.2023 03:22AM

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@Kouen

You say slaves have no choice. The average person has no effective choice. If the alternative is destitution, they have no choice. At best, given they can choose jobs and try to work for themselves they have a choice in slavery.

I'm not saying needing to work is slavery. Tribal folks have a choice in how to survive. The way our society is structured the average person has no choice

#6

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10.10.2023 09:47AM

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10.10.2023 09:47AM

Yay I am a slave

#7

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10.10.2023 10:18AM

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@n8nrgim

Essentially humans are all slaves to something since we can't fully win the war against entropy.

(you have no choice but to be mortal, pitre dish for viruses, for examples)

#8

Sidewalker

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Sidewalker

10.10.2023 10:31AM

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@n8nrgim

the average worker is a slave to society.... essentially a slave to the powerful. it's not outright slavery, but it basically is. there is an element of violence imposed on the average worker, cause he has no means of changing the system other than the electoral process

i said that to someone i respect a lot, and they said it's a juvenile world view. i view it as just calling a spade a spade. what do ya'll think?

When we are "juvenile" we live with our parents, we are "entitled" to a certain standard of living without having to work, to carry that feeling of entitlement into adulthood to feel that having to have a job is an act of violence, certainly isn't what I'd call a grown up world view, I can certainly understand why someone would call that a juvenile world view.

If you were just calling a spade a spade, then you'd be calling working working, calling working slavery is drama.

#9

Vegasgiants

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Vegasgiants

10.10.2023 10:51AM

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@n8nrgim

Then it would be voluntary slavery

#10

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10.10.2023 11:01AM

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10.10.2023 11:01AM

Lets pretend that we have a choice in life.

Then we can be happy slaves, not like those sad slaves in movies.

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10.10.2023 11:15AM

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@n8nrgim

I suggest you stick to simple terms, such as

"Humans are forced to work"

"Humans have little choice in work"

When you throw in big words like slavery, most people wont understand what you are saying because their defense mechanisms trigger and they block information from reaching their brains.

Obviously, anyone with a dictionary can see that slavery is forced work, and most humans are forced to work, so most humans are slaves. However, the average person due to having 60 IQ cannot understand that slavery isnt just being forced to work with a whip. However, due to failure of an average person to use a dictionary, average person will never understand you and you will just end up in non-productive conversation.

#12

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10.10.2023 11:36AM

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@n8nrgim

What is your concept of freedom as a contrast?

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10.10.2023 01:26PM

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@cristo71

The pioneer days and wild west were free. If a person wants 100 acres of crops and to plant some apple trees, all they have to do is go do it. Can a person go plant an apple tree now when they r starting out in life? Nope. Is this limitation a law of nature? No its a law of man. He can't go rode his horses around but must buy a car if he wants to survive. He's forced to work 40 hours a week. Is voluntary slavery a sensible concept? I'd say it is, and that shoe fits here

#14

FLRW

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FLRW

10.10.2023 01:42PM

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10.10.2023 01:42PM

I don't know why any poor person (worth less than $300 million) even wants to live.

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10.10.2023 01:43PM

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@n8nrgim

You are free to join a commune or live off the grid with your survival skillset if you wish. The key word here is “free.”

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10.10.2023 02:03PM

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@cristo71

Communrs and land and building supplies cost money. A below average income has little choice.

Do you agree voluntary slavery exists? A person can choose to be someone's slave. How is the average person any different than a person choosing to be a slave?

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10.10.2023 02:18PM

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@n8nrgim

I disagree with your view, yes. Survival has ALWAYS required work. You seem to believe that constitutes slavery. Yes, that is a belief of a juvenile. You are free to make choices. A slave can only choose between obedience or a damn good thrashing.

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10.10.2023 02:31PM

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@cristo71

In the modern context, we generally use the word "enslave" as an active choice of a person to subjugate another person by force.

Extending the word toward nature would water the definition down significantly. (no pun intended)

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@Greyparrot

Indeed. Some wage earners seem to confuse “cannot seem to get ahead” with slavery. Is “getting ahead” a human right now? I missed where primitive peoples had pensions and were eventually able to own BMWs and have exclusive country club memberships.

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#20

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10.10.2023 04:56PM

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@cristo71

you didn't answer my question. "Do you agree voluntary slavery exists? A person can choose to be someone's slave. How is the average person any different than a person choosing to be a slave?"

#21

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10.10.2023 05:11PM

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@n8nrgim

Are you talking about indentured servitude?

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#22

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10.10.2023 05:17PM

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@cristo71

what does it matter what it's called? is it possible to go to someone and say "i will be your slave if you take care of me"?

i dont think joining a commune makes practical sense. but i suppose it's possible for a bunch of people to live in a house even if they dont get their own room. then they might only have to work part time. we are all dependent on the current economic system, though, so there's at least a little bit of forced 'voluntary' slavery at play.

there's at least enough unfairness that it should be the basis of a social contract and basic social safety net. even if it's not considered slavery.

#23

Athias

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Athias

10.10.2023 05:32PM

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10.10.2023 05:32PM

All U.S. citizens are by definition "debt-slaves" by means of the 14th Amendment.

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10.10.2023 06:32PM

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@Athias

And 16th.

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10.10.2023 08:12PM

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@n8nrgim

what does it matter what it's called? is it possible to go to someone and say "i will be your slave if you take care of me"?

It matters because indentured servitude is actually a thing, and it is a temporary arrangement until one’s debt is paid off. Your idea of permanent servitude by choice exists only in your imagination.

#26

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10.10.2023 08:48PM

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10.10.2023 08:48PM

Why don't you say once and for all that you are communist? 😁

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10.10.2023 09:03PM

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@n8nrgim

Communrs and land and building supplies cost money. A below average income has little choice.

These supplies cost hard work. The fact that this work can be expressed as money doesn't mean it's not hard work anymore.

So you work hard to build your own commune or go to the cities to earn some money working hard so someone else build it for you. It's the same shit. Lol.

That's why I say you have a communist mindset, those people expect someone else to pay their bills.

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