Total posts: 124
-->
@Vader
That remains to be seen. If it events unfold in the way you predict, then we have strong suspects for DP2. I would think that as experienced players, both Budda and Aporia would know how it would look to push hard to lynch someone who turned out to be a town affiliated. And if one or both are scum, then it is counter intuitive to the goal of winning the game IMO.
Also, I don't think it is unreasonable to read you the way you have been based off of your mistakes. As an experienced player, you must of known how that would read and that it would be very difficult to convince anyone otherwise. To argue that it is unreasonable to prosecute you based off of these is confusing.
On another note, you take this game entirely too seriously ( or seem to ). From what content I have read from you, you tend to be laid back and satirical. This is highly irregular and out of character for you, which is damning to an even further degree.
Created:
-->
@Buddamoose
@warren42
@Aporia
Much, much better. I took the time to read the thread from beginning to end, and I made observations on every post of interest and area of contention. I have a much better grasp of the game rules now and of the current situation. I recognize that the initial argument between Budda and Aporia was one of strategy and ethics concerning the game. Nothing much to read from there, unless I was to suspect that it was a smokescreen. I now also have a grasp on reading players, and the reasoning put forth. And at the end of all this, I can say that I stand by my vote on Supa.
Logic...
As pointed out by Budda, he is an experienced player to the best of our knowledge, It is therefore suspect that he would misread an opening vote. After it was explained to me, I understand that this is a necessary first step to kick-start the match, and nothing can be inferred from it. For Supa, a supposedly experienced player, to make that mistake, is questionable. To compound the issue, Supa has also made this exact mistake at least two more times. The first was another on a vote, and the second error was on terminology that could easily be researched or defined from the context of the match. Following this, his only reaction has been outright indignance and outrage, something that comes off as a distinctly town affiliated behavior. I believe this a is a last ditch attempt to avert being lynched as scum, and is intentionally manufactured.
Summation...
Supa has been caught multiple times 'misreading' as I understand it relatively common place terms, which is unusual of a self proclaimed and proven experienced operator.
Confirm...
VTL ( Lynch ) SuperDudz
Reads...
Town
Budda
GP
Null
( Anyone not listed )
Scum
Supa
Wyl
Created:
-->
@Aporia
Read back through the thread. Caught up now.
VTL Supadudz ( Lynch )
Created:
-->
@Aporia
Could you present a concise version of why you ruled Supa as scum? I just want to read through and compare it to my read on him.
Created:
-->
@Buddamoose
And I would go further than saying it seems that way. That is most certainly how the character affiliations were discerned.
Created:
-->
@Aporia
That's fairly obvious from a casual read through of her wiki. Do you find it more likely that bsh included characters he personally likes as town
I would think so. Given the description I received from him with my character and the background on Adami it's not unreasonable to assume.
Created:
-->
@Buddamoose
She was along the lines of a political mob boss.Kai Winn Adami is clearly an antagonist. I do not see how "always showing up when she's not wanted" ties into that character, except in her capacity as a villain type character. From what I'm seeing in reviews, fan discussions, etc. she's an antagonist who people like because she's a complex and shaded antagonist, but an antagonist nonetheless.
Created:
-->
@Aporia
I would also like to remind you that I am not familiar with the game mechanics. I am still learning. This mistake made the distinction between a claim vote and a lynch vote very clear.
Created:
-->
@Aporia
Even if I had been talking about Budda why would you be parroting what you thought I said so badly that you'd be willing to completely jump the gun to lynch him?
I was under the impression you were talking about Greyparrot, not Budda. And I would not describe my comments as 'parroting'. That would imply that I have made this mistake repeatedly and in an almost robotic nature, which I clearly have not.
And, as I stated, my attention is currently divided between this and other matters. I simply misread.
As far as jumping the gun, I was already riding the line on my vote.
Created:
-->
@Aporia
I misread a lot of that. Dividing my attention at the moment. Lost my train of thought.
VTL ( claim ) Greyparrot
I thought you were discussing concerns about Grey with Budda.
Created:
-->
@Aporia
I second this. I move my vote from claim to lynch.
VTL ( Lynch ) Grey Parrot
Created:
Given some thought and consideration...
VTL Greyparrot
Created:
-->
@Buddamoose
@Aporia
I would like to point out another quirk in the way Grey has been both defending himself and advocating for votes against others. Notice the almost nauseating frequency with which he refers to himself as member of the town, either through directly claiming his affiliation or subtly using the terms we or us. He is intentionally trying to inundate us with the notion that he is a town player. Why?
Created:
-->
@Buddamoose
@Aporia
I think its interesting that you would take him at his word for that.
That is my point. The trust factor between those two is confusing to say the least.
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
@Aporia
I don't place much faith in votes one way or the other. Just behavior. And I stand by my observation on Wylted and Grey. Aside from the one VTL both players have been unusually close to one another and quick to lend support.
Created:
-->
@Buddamoose
Technically speaking yes. I was referring to two different characters. Lxwanna Troi is the mother of Deanna Troi ( Typically called Troi ). That was the distinction I was making. I should have clarified.Btw, it's Lwxanna Troi, one person, TroI is the last name, not another person.
One of the patterns I am noticing from the thread however is one between Grey and Wylted. They seem unusually trusting of one another. Neither one has cast suspicion on the other, something nearly everyone in the match has done thus far. Perhaps it is just out of ignorance of each other, or perhaps both are a known quantity to the other ( Essentially scum ).
Created:
-->
@Aporia
My intent was not to assign roles or character identities to anyone. I simply noticed that Lwxanna was brought up in the conversation, and considering I rather like the TNG era series, I was clarifying on her abilities and how they might tie into the game if characters are a reflection on player roles.
Created:
-->
@Aporia
I am still reading much of it to be honest. The thread jumped from nine pages when I last saw it to twice that value.
Created:
-->
@Buddamoose
The only notable thing beyond her flamboyancy per the wikia is that in Season 7 it was revealed Lwxanna was a psychic, and had multiple personalities. "An escort of sorts" she was an ambassador. Ambassadors have escorts, they aren't the escorters.
Lxwanna and Troi are both empaths. They essentially have the ability to read individuals based on subtle psychic and physical vibes. If we are trying to infer a character role from that, I would say it would be along the lines of one of the investigative roles, and most certainly affiliated with town.
Created:
-->
@warren42
Argent outing character without any sort of prompt to do so is either townie or mafia have fake claims and their partner said they should do this.
I followed suite after Supa. And I don't think there is anything harmful about revealing character names in the context of the theme unless they have direct correlation with the town or mafia affiliation of the player ( Which was never specified ). As far as the suggestion that I may be a more experienced player, I can assure you the opposite is the case. I just happen to be a quick learner as you put it.
Created:
-->
@Buddamoose
@Aporia
Fair enough. I was just poking around seeing if I could get a read on anyone.
UNVOTE Aporia.
Created:
-->
@Buddamoose
I understand that the initial vote had no motivation behind it other than to kick start the match. What I am saying is that there were some pretty clear indicators that he was accusing you of being scum later on in the argument.
Created:
-->
@Buddamoose
Oh, That makes sense. However, he made some more implications later on in your discourse.It's necessary to get the game rolling and exit the "random voting stage"
Created:
-->
@Aporia
Correct me if I am mistaken, but you voted for him to either by lynched or investigated, which means you have suspicions regarding his affiliation. Since it is the intent of town members to be wary and make accusations (And mafia to some extent) I would say that it was insinuated.
Created:
-->
@Buddamoose
@Vader
@Aporia
My character is exclusively a holodeck character that appears only in DS9 to my knowledge.
Created:
-->
@Buddamoose
@Vader
@Aporia
Bussing is where you try pointing the blame or purposely disagreeing or VTLing each other to try to cause people to think y'all are on different teams when both are scum.
Even with that as a possibility, it leaves us with two very likely conditions out of three that are feasible.
Option A - Both are scum and are attempting to pull off a buss early in the match.
Option B - One of them is scum, and is attempting to remove a skilled player that they view as a concerning and unknown factor.
Option C - Neither of them are scum, and are pursuing aggressive and sporadic accusations.
Reasoning...
Option A - If they are bussing, they are doing a very good job at it. What I find interesting about this theory is that Aporia went from a very strong and vindicated accusation of Budda to essentially confirming him as a member of the town. As far as I could see, most of the argument between them concerned their varying strategic approaches to the game rather than the validity of the accusation Aporia leveled itself. I would rate this as the second most likely option.
Option B - If only one of them is scum, then I would point the finger at Aporia. I don't think (From my understanding) that it would be a wise tactic as a member of the town to instigate spotty speculation on who is scum and who is not. At the very least, pick someone and prosecute their case to the fullest extent you can, rather than abort and choose a new target. Eventually you may lead another town member to being lynched. I would rate this as the first most likely option.
Option C - This is the least likely option as far as I am concerned. I think at least one of them is scum. This option would entail both being town members while doing some things that I do not necessarily read as townsfolk. Then again, I may be wrong, and in that case I would vote to lynch myself.
Recap...
Option A - 2nd most likely
Option B - 1st most likely
Option C - Least most likely
Created:
-->
@Vader
@Aporia
So we can actually reveal our character names?
Created:
-->
@Aporia
Not very.
And no, this is my first match. Most of what I wrote was based off of intuition and what I could grasp from the rules.
Created:
-->
@Aporia
Most likely not, to be honest.
Although, as far as I can see, some of what I have mentioned was already a sentiment put out by Budda.
Created:
-->
@Buddamoose
@Vader
@Aporia
I cast VTL for Aporia.
In my opinion, Aporia seems very quick to cast scrutiny, especially at Budda right off the bat. Why would Aporia immediately attack Budda? This could only be out of concern, which means Budda is an unknown factor to Aporia. This by default means they cannot be of the same interests and therefore cannot be on the same team. I also think that being quick to cast scrutiny is a rather chaotic move, and it is counter-intuitive if you are trying to win as town. And seeing that the majority of players in the game are town, it would stand to reason that being shotty with accusations will get another towny lynched. Now, if you are scum, sowing chaos means you can attempt to get town players to lynch other town players. Its more beneficial as mafia to be unpredictable than it is as town.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@bsh1
Thank you, will be keeping an eye out for it. Excited!
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@bsh1
@Ramshutu
I second this idea. It's already been made clear that public voting is going to be a considerable and contentious issue given the fact that a thread like this even exists. I suggest that a senate comprised of individuals given voting power be appointed by the moderators. This group should be populated based on a set of criteria that ensure it is composed of modest individuals of different views and backgrounds.Public open voting is always going to be problematic. Maybe there could be some form of committee (deliberates in private then posts a decision) where a few people deliberate on relative strengths. Maybe you can allow points to be awarded for good arguments and removed for bad ones - and people score that way. In my view your kinda hamstrung having copied do voting style, which was terrible.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Tyrone
Thank you for seeing my point. Common sense prevails as always.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Wylted
I am sure they would. That is a bit like polling convicted felons to whether or not they approve of the conduct of the judge that sentenced them, no? Regardless if the ruling was correct and ethical, they are sure to have a negative opinion.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Tyrone
For the sake of trying to keep this thread on the topic it was intended to revolve around, I stand alongside Bsh1. He has been polite, and as I view it consistent. He was forced into making an unpopular decision when people were less than cooperative with him, and he has stood his ground on the CoC. I respect him for that.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Goldtop
I can tell you what I am not here to do. I am not here to debate the ethics and credibility of an argument that has nothing to do with the topic 'Good Music', and I am certainly not protecting anyone. I simply want you to keep your clear vendetta against the Madman out of this thread. I genuinely enjoy this topic, and I would be disappointed to see it denigrate into the ranks of flame - war topics.
Also, I would hesitate to use the word bullying.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Goldtop
Not upset, at least not in the sense you are implying. More annoyed than anything. And the insult was dead - on actually. You and I both know that you came into this thread with the express purpose of provoking the Madman. It would be mindless to claim otherwise. In fact, I think this is the third or fourth thread where you have done so since the initial conversation on the 'Flat - Earth' topic. And while you might see this as initiating debate, in reality, it's petty drama - plain and simple.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Goldtop
You are certainly skilled at being needlessly confrontational. Even though I agree with the content of your comment, I accept that this thread was intended to be peaceful and publicly collaborative, not a place for debate and heated discussion, which is clearly what you are trying to initiate. At least be polite and forgo doing it here.
Created: