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Put this forum under science but I have a nagging feeling many answers I receive will be unscientific.
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will be interested in seeing benny boys possible improvements.
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no one thinks bernie is a centrist.
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@Nyxified
Also, I hate using the "check out my sources" card but I highly recommended Dr Debra Soh's The End of Gender: Debunking the Myths about Sex and Identity in Our Society. She's a liberal sexologist who received her Ph.D in sexual neuroscience from York University. Her publication has received praise from Ben Shapiro, Richard Dawkins, Bret Weinstein and Steven Pinker. A great read.
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@Nyxified
Do you not think that if mere feeling is required for legal identification, that could lead to a slippery slope? People can truly feel that they are not guilty, or that they are deserving of better income.
Also, what is your thought on archeologists sound ability to identify the sex/gender of a given corpse? Doesn't this suggest that there is a plethora of factors which constitute manhood and womanhood? Even though there isn't a single factor which all wo/man posses, there is still an ability to mostly identify the gender/sex of a given individual.
Also also, what is your definition of human. What criteria do you have which all beings must posses in order to be a human?
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@Nyxified
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The 1984 eugenics program in Singapore was a great idea.
In short, people who graduated college with good marks would be allowed to participate in a government funded cruise trip, in which they will mingle with other high achieving students. The intention is essentially to create a "love island" situation on the cruise in which smart individuals will meet, start a relationship and subsequently have children with good genes.
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If you wear a sock backwards, everything in the universe is wearing it except for your foot.
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@ILikePie5
If the contents are the property of an individual and have been seized by the FBI for further investigation, I don't think the public, at that point, has the right to access the information?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
What I don't get is, if he really had to contents of the laptop in his hand, wouldn't it have been best to just examine the contents? He's already broken the law in possessing illegal contents so why not take it a step further?
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@ILikePie5
He held up a hard drive looking item and declared that he was in possession of the laptop and wanted it to be examined. Though him saying he was in possession of the laptop could have been a reference to the contents.
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@oromagi
- The laptop hard drive Matt Gaetz now claims to be in (illegal) possession of?
Yeah I was super surprised when he took it out. Isn't that thing supposed to be locked up in some FBI headquarter? Also, why would you publicly admit to having an item which you have minutes ago claimed is supposed to be seized by the FBI? Still though it was slightly concerning how FBI guy couldn't answer anything.
Also, I am referring to the recent Gaetz situation.
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@zedvictor4
I don't know if it's a confidentiality thing but the guy Gaetz was talking to was getting absolutely grilled.
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@thett3
Congratulations on your child!
If the book that you cite looks good, I'll definitely get it - I'm interested in learning more about this topic (which is why I would have wanted to watch a debate between you and Nyxified). I'm definitely interested in looking into the literature over this topic.
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@thett3
Being worried about the possibility of getting cancelled on a debate website for sharing one's view is a great epitomisation of modern life.
Although, from a personal perspective, you should definitely get into this debate - I would love to read it.
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@Barney
Legally in the USA, personhood begins at birth.
What factor of birth grants moral agency to born babies which fetus' do not possess.
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@Barney
I stand by personhood mattering more than the mere fact of DNA
At what stage does a human being posses personhood?
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@Tradesecret
..?
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@n8nrgim
if out of body experiences are true, that's evidence the afterlife is true.
Do you think DMT angels are real?
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@Tradesecret
Also I feel like we are talking in circles. Would you be interested in arranging a time to call and chat about this (discord, google hangouts maybe). Despite my critical tone, there's no shade towards you from my end. Just interested in a discussion.
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@Tradesecret
And let me reiterate something else. God does not want people to burn in Hell either.Yet he chooses to send them there? God is omnipotent I'm sure he had other options.I suppose if you prefer that God shouldn't believe in justice and he shouldn't worry about telling lies nor in giving people the opportunity to do the right thing then that might make senseYour supposition is incorrect. What part of making homosexuals burn for eternity is a contribution to justice?Stop being so narrow minded. You tried to reason by omnipotence. You think power is the only thing that needs to be considered. But it is not. I've already told you this is not about homosexuality. It is about treason. Rebellion. That is the issue. There is more in this universe at stake than simply one narrow issue. Don't get so locked into it that you forget your humanity,
If I were omnipotent, or even just very powerful, the last thing I would be concerned about would be what happens between two consenting adults behind closed doors.
Are their homosexuals in Heaven more worried about themselves - than they are about praising God? I doubt it. To even ask that question - demonstrates persuasively that you have never understood Christianity,
Actually, I knew the answer before I asked the question - I only asked to clarify that you understood how absurd your position is.
Homosexuals don't make a choice in becoming homosexuals.Well you need to come and live in the real world for just a little while. The ordinary view today is that people's views about sexual orientation is fluid.
Do you prescribe to the "ordinary view"? No, you do not think sexuality is fluid so why mention it?
What will I gain from living in the real word? Will you give me a straight answer? Do gay people choose to be gay yes or no? Is sexual attraction something which one decides yes or no?
Harry Potter's creator has been canceled because she believes in feminism and not fluidity.
JK. Rowling was cancelled for her "hateful" book, Troubled Blood, which contained a character whom was a murder and also happened to utilize cross dressing as a means of gaining the trust of women. Though I find such a cancellation to be absolutely insane, it has nothing to do with being gay.
Me, I object to fluidity.
So then it follows from sexuality not being fluid that homosexuals are not being fluid and their attraction is science based?
I think science trumps feelings. Facts over emotions I say. Yes, I know that is anti-modern thinking and likely to lead me to getting canceled. but I do think that a man is a man and female is a female.
See? We could be great friends we're not so disimular are we?
I think people choose to be homosexual
If people are “choosing” to be gay, it follows that sexuality is a choice. If this is so, to prove your point, why don’t you become gay for a year and then revert? If the homosexual community consists of people choosing to be attracted to the same sex, as opposed to being biologically necessitated towards it, then why don’t you join up for a bit?
Either
- Homosexuality is ingrained in a being
- Homosexuality is a choice
If a), then it suggests that the “ingrainer” (God) messed up
If b) then go and be gay to prove it. Also, why wouldn’t gay people just choose to be straight? That would be so much easier for themselves
My personal view is that each of your arguments p1 - p4 are flawed. Why?What is free will? You don't explain that.
The ability to chose to do act X without being compelled. I can sub it in for you if you wish
p1. All humans have the ability to choose to freely engage and make decisions, so long as they are physically and logically cogent.
p2. Assuming that people have p1, the ability to choose to freely engage and make decisions, so long as they are physically and logically cogent, people display degrees to which people are moral and immoral.
- All this asserts is that
- There are free agents in this world
- Those free agents are individuals
- Some of the individuals are more moral than others.
c1. Someone people who possess the ability to choose to freely engage and make decisions, so long as they are physically and logically cogent, are more moral than others.
c2. It is possible for a free person to choose to do good.
c3. God, being omnipotent, therefore could have created an individual described in c2.
c4. If c3, then God could have created free creates who only choose to do good.
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@Tradesecret
And let me reiterate something else. God does not want people to burn in Hell either.Yet he chooses to send them there? God is omnipotent I'm sure he had other options.I suppose if you prefer that God shouldn't believe in justice and he shouldn't worry about telling lies nor in giving people the opportunity to do the right thing then that might make sense
Your supposition is incorrect. What part of making homosexuals burn for eternity is a contribution to justice?
There is not one person in Hell just because they are a homosexual. And nor is there one person in Heaven just because they are a heterosexual. I take the view that there are heterosexuals in Hell and there are homosexuals in heaven.
What do you make of verses such as "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." What part of a man lying with a man is an abomination?
You're playing with words here, I'll make it as plain as possible - is there a person in Heaven who opening and freely "commits" homosexuality?
We have made a choice - and since he tells the truth and is not a liar or vindictive but just we are sentenced and judged according to our desires.
Homosexuals don't make a choice in becoming homosexuals.
I amend my prior statement - if I were an omnipotent being I would not create a deterministic world in which the "sins" of people are necessary events.Ok. But you are not God. And for whatever reason God preferred to love and give people an opportunity to freely love him back. He didn't want robots.
False equivalence. God, being all powerful, could have created free creatures who always chose to love him. Consider the following proof.
p1. All humans have free will
p2. With said free will, people display degrees to which people are moral and immoral.
c1. Someone free people are more moral than others.
c2. It is possible that someone has free will and only chooses to do good.
c3. God, being omnipotent, therefore could have created an individual described in c2.
c4. If c3, then God could have created free creates who only choose to do good.
Furthermore, do you believe God has free will?
Follow up, do you believe God can only do good?
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@Tradesecret
Do you think that any judge actually wants someone to be put in prison?
I amend my prior statement - if I were an omnipotent being I would not create a deterministic world in which the "sins" of people are necessary events.
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@Tradesecret
And let me reiterate something else. God does not want people to burn in Hell either.
Yet he chooses to send them there? God is omnipotent I'm sure he had other options.
Do you think that any judge actually wants someone to be put in prison?
Yes. If I were a judge, I would want to put harmful people who commit heinous crimes into prison.
i'll rephrase again does God freely choose to send people who outwardly express their homosexualilty through physical acts to Hell and is the morally just?
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@Tradesecret
I don't want gays to burn in Hell. What a load of nonsense. I don't want anyone to burn in Hell.
Let me rephrase - you want homosexual couples who engage in sex to burn in hell
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@Tradesecret
Nope - you are totally wrong. The Bible is not homophobic.
then why do you want gays to burn in hell
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@DebateArt.com
@airmax1227
- moving pfp like discord.
- customisation of banners.
- images in debate so graphs and whatnot can be incorporated
- group messages
Pinging airmax so he can look through these and act upon the ones he's interested in.
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@Yassine
In terms of religion, I am an atheist.- So the extra 1 of doubt is just for the heck of it.
Because I am not certain - just as how I am not certain of anything.
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@Yassine
Honestly I don't even know what my politics, it's very central. I see stupid things in both the left and right.
In terms of religion, I am an atheist.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Or maybe it's because men only care about what other men are doing because it's some sort of macho b*******.
Nah if a group of 99 men and 1 women were discussing gender, is it not normal the man to use "he" pronouns?
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@Yassine
Regarding politics
3/10
Regarding religion
9/10
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@Polytheist-Witch
Maybe because 9/10 people here are men speaking to men.
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@Theweakeredge
How would you have responded to Matt's question of what do you define as a women? From my perspective, it seems that you are defining gender as broadly as you can, so that anyone can morph into, or in your terms, discover their gender. Do you not think that a term such as "sex", of which is grounded in biology, is more stable?Nope, because gender is grounded in biology as well
It’s easy to confuse sex and gender. Just remember that biological or assigned sex is about biology, anatomy, and chromosomes. Gender is society’s set of expectations, standards, and characteristics about how men and women are supposed to act.
Social construct refers to an idea that has been created and accepted by the people in a society. As such, according to your ideology, gender is a societal construct.
your mind is as biologic as your junk, thats something that needs to be expressed very clearly. What being a woman is, is how you experience it, it seems to me like you are trying to needlessly narrow it. But I always priortize the brain to the junk, sorry buddy.
I don't prioritise, I prioritise a plethora of factors, including chromosomes, bone density, hormonal profiles, gametes and "junk". Let me ask you a very clear and simple question. What biological factors do one need to possess in order to be truly gender dysphoric?
If biological man who has XY, male typical bone density and male exclusive gametes but they believe that they are a women, how ought this individual be categorised. Should be jeopardise the 3 criterions I provided (and also the numerous ones I didn't) for the sake of the mind?
I said that this is a discovery, which does not imply change. You have misunderstood as a very fundamental level.
What you have done is essentially make your position unfalsifiable.
- If a person "discovers" their gender and is happy with their transition, this bolsters your ideology.
- If someone regrets their transition, they were merely confused.
In essence, you ignore all the people who may taint your criteria and write them off as wrong. Across all evelen long term studies ever conducted on gender dysphoric children, between 60 to 90 percent desist by puberty. But of course, the people who detransition, you will, were not real transgenders.
I have said that you discover your gender does not match and ought to be priortized.
What mechanism allows one to "discover their gender".
This is a false equivalence. Phobias and other anxiety disorders are caused by some type of dysfunction in the amygdala and related brain areas. Trans activists do not believe there is anything dysfunctional about transgendered people. Moreover, when someone switches their gender, there is no inspection on whether there are any biological ties to the reason they believe they are the opposite gender. If you have a phobia, there is a quantifiable and understandable reason for your reaction.You have utterly missed the point of the analogy. I am a trans activist, once again "switched" is the wrong verb here, you have truly learned nothing.
Thanks for your reassurance.
But I'll explain this before ending the conversation. The point of the analogy was to point out how it depends on individual experience and how what seems irrational or unintuitive for one person is not for another.
No your original point is as follows:
Why do people sometimes have panic attacks when it comes to harmless spiders or snakes?
Because the brain is not always rational
this is because societal expectations label themselves onto them
therefore gender expression is unique to the individual.
Individual experience is not why people have phobias, phobias have a psychological root for their existence - people need not have scaring experiences with spiders to have arachnophobia. A posteriori knowledge is not compatible with phobia.
I would reccomend trying to look a bit deeper.
I will wager that I have read more on this subject than you.
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@Double_R
Do you understand the difference between biological sex and gender?
One is an term of science, the other was fictionalised by people.
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@Yassine
I can send a challenge if you wish. How do you define your God? With the common omni attributes?- I'd rather we agree on the parameters before engaging in debate. Of course I'd be arguing for the Islamic definition of God. That is, a singular, necessary, absolute, transcendent being. Anything I should know about your side of things?
Do you believe that Allah is omnipotent and omnibenevolent?
You indicated that the provided were the topics you are willing to debate ,which is why I added it. No worries if you've changed your mind.- Any other topics you're interested in?
I'm a determinist, though I would rather take it one debate at a time.
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@Yassine
Democracy is a terrible government systemGod Is (exists)Let's get these two on the road. Shall I initiate them?- What are the parameters, rules, definitions...etc? I'd much rather debate the Islam related topics there though.
I can send a challenge if you wish. How do you define your God? With the common omni attributes?
You indicated that the provided were the topics you are willing to debate ,which is why I added it. No worries if you've changed your mind.
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@Theweakeredge
If you are referring to transgender people, "changing your gender" is disingenuous. As I have explained, there is no "changing of gender" which occurs, they do not suddenly "become" the gender they identify as. They discover that they are indeed that gender, now, you might make an argument about changing one's phenotypical sexual features or "sex" but that is entirely different and does not correlate with this situation.
How would you have responded to Matt's question of what do you define as a women? From my perspective, it seems that you are defining gender as broadly as you can, so that anyone can morph into, or in your terms, discover their gender. Do you not think that a term such as "sex", of which is grounded in biology, is more stable?
The proper time to come out as trans is whenever you genuinely discover your gender identity. Sometimes you aren't right, most times people are, and I'm not willing to let all of the people who could be helped by pro-trans legislation get hurt because of the extreme extreme outlier.
I don't think a successful transition indicates anything regarding the empirical status of a being. What do you think of trans-speciesism? Does not your stance allow for the switching of species? Mere thought does not, in my opinion, have the weight to alter biology.
Why do people sometimes have panic attacks when it comes to harmless spiders or snakes? Because the brain is not always rational, because sometimes societal expectations label themselves onto them, and - this is important - gender expression is unique to the individual. Which is to say some people feel like to express that they individually are male they have to do x or y. The big problem is when you expose your own individual gender expression on other people, because this causes this dehabilitating effect.
This is a false equivalence. Phobias and other anxiety disorders are caused by some type of dysfunction in the amygdala and related brain areas. Trans activists do not believe there is anything dysfunctional about transgendered people. Moreover, when someone switches their gender, there is no inspection on whether there are any biological ties to the reason they believe they are the opposite gender. If you have a phobia, there is a quantifiable and understandable reason for your reaction.
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@Yassine
Democracy is a terrible government system
God Is (exists)
Let's get these two on the road. Shall I initiate them?
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@Yassine
What do you think of the Kalam Cosmological argument?
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@Yassine
Have you changed your mind on any topics? Have you learnt anything whilst on this site?
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@Tradesecret
In the theist's world - evil is condemned by God - and is dealt with through Jesus.
Having a solution to a problem does not alleviate the fact that there is still gratuitous suffering in the world. Returning to my teacher example, would it matter if the teacher were to then punish the shooter after he has killed the entire class? Obviously not, it’s great that the teacher does administer some punishment, but that doesn’t change the inconvenient fact that they have allowed a killer to mow through her class.
Permission is an odd thing to suggest. You fail to delineate between first and second causes. God set up a system in the OT to punish evil. He also set up a system to deal with individual evil. Why fail to mention these things? Are they inconvenient truths?
For the reasons above. Punishment doesn’t change the act.
I have argued elsewhere that the existence of evil is definitive proof that God exists. A disorder demonstrates that the world we live in is not perfect - and has rebelled against God and his designs. It is evidence of sin and its destructive power.
Two problems. The first is that you commit what is known as the fallacy of introducing unnecessary ontology. Consider the following example.
Trade: Aliens exist
Bones: But there is no evidence
Trade: I guess the aliens hid them.
We have identified an issue for Christianity, and instead of accepting its implications, you add an unnecessary ontology, that the world isn’t perfect.
Further, you state that humans rebelled against God. Humans were created by an omnipotent and omnibenevolent God, so he would have wanted to create the best humans he could. Best is subjective, but we can agree that God, if all powerful and all loving, would not have created handicapped people. Further, God is said to have created man “in his image”. We have discussed this before and will likely not get closure but I maintain my stance: Whatever definition or idiom you use, the term “in the image of” must mean that X took at least some inspiration from Y. If I create a statue and say that it is made with the image of Plato in my mind, in order for me to be successful, my sculpture must bear some resemblance to Plato, or else I would have failed. However, if I make something in the image of God (infinite), the inspiration must also be infinite. A finite thing cannot bear any quantifiable resemblance to an infinite thing. Thus humans, if the bible is right, must be infinitely good. But leaving this aside, let’s assume that God just made man perfect, for that would be the most loving thing to do.
If humans rebelled against God, ordinarily, there are two responses to why.
- Humans were flawed in design.
- Humans had free will and chose to sin.
The second is what you will take. However, upon further inspection, it tails back to the first option. Suppose man had free will. Would a perfect man rebel against God? Obviously not. You may say that he had “free will”, but this is not a sufficient lifebuoy. A perfect man with free will would not have chosen to rebel against God.
In response to “who willed cancer”,
One might suggest that Adam and Eve by intentionally disobeying God - willed for every consequence because of that choice…If Adam had not sinned, cancer would not be a thing.
So Kin punishment then.
Christians don't hold to the view that God won't intervene if he chooses to. We don't say that God won't interfere with free will. In fact we say the opposite - God will interfere - and does in every person who becomes a Christian.
This is not harmonious with reality at all. 6 million Jews, many of whom were likely praying to God, were thrown into chambers and gassed to death. There were Jewish people, literally Jesus’ race.
It is precisely because it requires God to interfere with your Free Will that anyone becomes a Christian.
This is rather circular. I can only become a Christian if I first believe in converting to Christianity? I’m only converting if there’s a reason.
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@FLRW
All abortions should be banned. Even if the fetus has no head,legs or arms. One of the companies I own makes coat hangars.
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@RationalMadman
I have a 'meta' AMA question for you that in particular I feel is worth asking to you given the depth of your OP and posting it in the DART section, rather than personal...Why did you make the AMA?
I posted it because this is a debate cite I thought that it would be worthwhile getting my views out to everyone. As for posting in the DART section, the last 3 people to do AMA's posted it in the DART section.
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@rbelivb
However, to claim to have an objective viewpoint that there "are" two genders, is mistaken in the sense that you are imagining that you can appeal to biology or some other concrete science to make a final decision and end the process of negotiation. For example, if the "aje activists" wanted to divide age by 2, so that we referred to 1 year olds as 0.5, 10 year olds as 5 in "aje," and so on, it would make no sense to say that people are "really, scientifically" a certain age/aje.
Perhaps age is not the best example, as there is no real criteria for being a particular age. However, my argument works perfectly well if you consider species. If I created the term spesees, and say that I am a frog, does this override biology?
But it's not the lawmakers fault that a certain race commits crimes, or are more prone to illegally immigrating. Sure, you can assert that the Trump Mexican wall discriminates against Mexicans but it just so happens that it is Mexicans who attempt to illegally enter - if they didn't enter then there would be no discrimination.It's the law itself that is discriminatory.
The purpose of the law is to stop illegal immigrants. It just so happens that the particular border in question stops a larger proportion of a certain ethnicity.
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@Dr.Franklin
I don't debate anymore, I don't have the time. You can tell by the amount of time that I actually spend the website now-a-days
I'm not on here much either. We could do a debate with a 2 week argument time.
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@Dr.Franklin
you did not rebuttal my argument.
This is a conversation, not a debate.
explain how the problem of evil is sound
I'll tell you in a debate.
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