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@Danielle
If in fact Budda is scum, he should just come out now for the sake of everyone instead of delaying the game for no reason...
I probably would if I was. I'm not
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Honestly, I'm about done trying to convince people. Vaarka has asked to be replaced, we've heard from everyone.
I'm gonna hammer in T-10 minutes unless otherwise told to wait
cause like i said, done with it. It doesn't matter who we lynch, but if they flip innocent like im pretty dang sure Drafter is gonna come up as. You/We lynch Hammer tomorrow, period.
Hammer lynch doesn't look like it's gonna happen, and at this point it just seems a waste of time to try.
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@Danielle
I just realized Meg could be the Mafia lawyer... it wouldn't fit the mechanics but it would the theme
Meg leaves during Season 2 though no?
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@Danielle
Dude he just keeps repeating, "the first person to claim in similar claims is almost always telling the truth." When that's just not true.
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@Vader
If could be that vanilla has the relative same PM to everyone. You don't know about any other roles.
So everyone is lying? Because that's what this implies.
Even if Draft sounds like our PM, that doesn't mean he's town. If a role like cop is a key role here, then there should be key differences in PMS
Omfg, it's not just a few people. It's every claimed PM is one way, and Hammers is entirely different.
I don't think Lenny Pots is more of a viable cop than an Officer.Yes i know he was hired, but there is more to pots than investigative. He is one of the most honest people in the show. This could be implied to another role not cop.
Would you trust an administrative state cop or "personal detective".
Why are you operating as if both are telling the truth? Hammer or Drafter could be lying. Which person would you find most likely to be lying in a situation where everyone but one person corroborates X and Y thing.
He never gave a viable reason for RFDing me,
Your definition of "viable" is suspect. The reasons for suspecting you were mostly more than viable. They continue to be viable. I disagreed with them, but that's my interpretation of your actions, not others. Nor is your interpretation of your own actions, the necessarily accurate one.
and just seemed to hop on the Hammer bandwagon last DP than
What are you talking about. Seriously, you say you aren't sheeping rational but you repeated, yet again, the same exact thing he did, which was nonsense. Drafter wasn't viewing Hammer as scum even through me trying to convince him. He ultimately found an independent reason that I hadn't yet to hold him as scummy.
How TF is someone that listens to someone's case, doesn't believe it, but reexamines the player regardless and finds an independent reason to think they are scum, "hopping" on a wagon. I take it "seemed to hop" meaning he did it without good reason and or otherwise casually did so without due consideration?
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@Greyparrot
When theres 2 similar roles, and its likely one is false, almost always the 1st person to claim is the true claim.
This is false. That depends on the circumstances of the claim
Honestly, I don't know how you can defend Drafter...he didn't role claim before Hammer role claimed.
So? He claimed a character that could only have ever been a cop claim or he would have been lynched based off of that.
If Drafter flips scum, this is going to make you look susp.
Just to have me mod confirmed, such insightful analysis. Where is your head at RN?
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@Vader
He said that his role was just a town enforcer. How would you know that there has GOT to be more than just that?
This was never claimed. Nobody has claimed the role "town enforcer". What even is that role? I've never heard of it.
How would i know there has got to be more than you are sheriff aguirre, your sheriff of Monroe county and your job is to do good things and catch bad guys so you are the cop. You win with the town (In essence)?
Because every other person has claimed to also have other characters and backstory mentioned in their PM.
This is not like you claiming that your PM doesn't mention Rationals character but mentions another character ur close with. Therefore Rational is scum.
This is saying somebodies PM claim is unlike any other in the game in 2 major structural ways, therefore they are scum.
Note, the former doesn't have corroboration. The latter actually has it.
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@Vader
But I'm not using it, nor is rational as he de facto admitted to despite implying that's what he was using to falesly add authority to his analysis. Nobody here is.
What we are all presumably using are synopses of the story(show), except for Danielle who is the only one to have claimed to have seen more than one episode.
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@Vader
Jeez for christ sake just because I am not posting every 10 seconds like taking a shit on laxative doesn't mean I'm not paying attention to the game
That's not at all why I said or even possibly implied why I am having serious thoughts as to whether you are paying attention.
It was that you trust Rational due to his theme analysis to be solid and therefore trust that Lenny Potts doesn't fit as cop.
I pointed out that I directly sourced that Potts absolutely does make sense as cop, could only ever be a cop claim, and why.
To whit you respond with, "yeah yeah, the script. But I put more stock in the story."
And you wonder why someone said you sheeped? You repeated the same idiocy rational did. Again, the script has the storyline plus more. But I'm not using it, nor is rational as he de facto admitted to despite implying that's what he was using to falesly add authority to his analysis. Nobody here is.
Rational hadn't otherwise supplied any sources either, I'm sourcing to back up that it's not just my word. Yet you trust Rational?
I'm asking whether or not you are paying attention because you are belying you are not, you know, paying attention through what you are saying.
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@Vader
I'm gonna need you to focus.
What is your reason for FoS'ing Drafter? I understand you might otherwise have stated it, please go back over it.
What is your reason for believing Hammer is town and not scum? Understanding you might have already stated it, please go back over it.
Then consider:
Hammers claim is the only different one. And is starkly different in the entirety of its claimed structure. What do you find most likely? That all the PM's would share a general structure, and there is one that doesn't. Or that all PM's would share a general structure if there is a general structure?
Understanding there might be slight differentiations. But vast ones? Even last DP you didn't even agree with me about your own PM analysis(which is just based off your PM not mentioning Sally) and now you don't see that Hammers claim is starkly different than what every other person but Vaarka has claimed theirs to be like?
Then consider that you are misplacing your trust in Rational, especially in light of the numerous things I found some things to be entirely, or just in part, innaccurate.
Again, Lenny Potts is hired by Sally Rayburn to investigate Danny's death. He is a former detective. He absolutely fits with being a cop. I sourced this already and directly quoted the story synopsis.
Yet Rational said he didn't fit at all. And you trust that? That's mind boggling to say the least. Your recent posts overall have been mind boggling.
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@Vader
But his role may not a huge PM analysis depending on the character...
What are you talking about? The specific character claimed has nothing to do with general role structure of the role PM's completely differing.
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@Vader
no way a game like this is going have SO MUCH detail to have roles based off a script. While you disprove him script wise, storyline wise. He has a better point
Wtf are you even talking about? None of my thematic analysis is based upon the script. It's purely based upon synopsis of storylines. I'm not the one who claimed i wasI was using the script. Rational did, and I illustrated he was BS'ing.
Not to mention, like lol. The script of a show is the entirety of the storyline plus tons more.
Again, are you even paying attention to the game?
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Note to everyone: Does your PM contain direct justification of your role? Ex: "You do these things so you are X" Mine does not. Again, Hammer claimed otherwise.
His PM claim is just straight up starkly different from any other present claim and the only one who hasn't divulged anything yet is Vaarka. 6 to 1.
one of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong
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@Vader
6 people including yourself have claimed PM's that contain justification.
Sorry to correct, have claimed to have PM's that mention another character and backstory. Hammer is the only one to claim his does not. He has claimed obscenely generic and obvious role justification present. Something I doubt is present because my PM does not ever connect information to why I'm the role i am directly. I said the same thing early early DP1 you will note. And your PM did not appear to make that connection obvious either. Rather something to be inferred.
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@Vader
Remember the PM analysis you did previously? Analyzing PM's isn't stupid in itself. Note i I never said that, 6 people including yourself have claimed PM's that contain justification. Hammer is the only claim in which that is not the case. This is the kind of PM analysis that is extremely signifigant.
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@Greyparrot
1st person to claim is almost 100% town.
Also, like... What in the eff? Maybe first person to claim period. But not at any point after that.
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@Greyparrot
If Drafter fake claimed he was banking on a cop claim previous to Hammer claiming cop. Remember, Drafter claimed Lenny Potts previous to being guiltied. Lenny Potts, again, former detective and was directly hired by Sally Rayburn to investigate her death. That character is a clear cop character and only makes sense as that.
You are giving Hammer credit for something he didn't do. He didn't claim cop first, Drafter in essence did because he claimed a character that could only ever be a cop of some variety.
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@Vader
Not trying to sheep him. He knows well of the show and fmpov,
Breh ur literally gonna ignore all the posts on the show I've made that actually source shit and show he is disgenuinely representing alot of thing? Seriously?
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@Vader
I'm trusting you that you know that Lenny does not fit the role of cop
Supa, I literally quoted and linked to a site where that is conclusively disproven. Are you even paying attention to the game? If this is stream of consciousness posting where you respond as you go, as it seems you do. You need to note vote because that can result in an accidental hammer and your consequential lynch generally.
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@TheHammer
I do think obviously dumb posts coming from a smart player, as is happening with you, indicates scumminess
And why would that be? Again, stupid posts do not indicate scumminess. Though I challenge that my post have been predominantly stupid. I don't lack awareness. I have made some stupid posts, like missing that it was Earth that died. Missing that my character was Danny.
But none of that is indicative of affiliation. I challenge you to illustrate otherwise. But it would amount to cherry picking out of quite a bit of stuff as you've honestly done with some of your responses thus far.
Out of my whole case against you DP1. You pick out a proceeding post and respond to that. That being the complaint about dishonest and poor use of percentages. Which I still think is a decent indicator of you manufacturing analysis when placed in conjunction with the entirety of your behavior thus far.
When you responded to my PM analysis, you say it's dumb. Then provide a reason for it being so that doesn't make sense. Drafter wasn't implicated in my PM analysis because he hadn't divulged whether or not he could even corroborate it yet. My PM analysis hadn't been proven yet. I made sure to state repeatedly that the only way it would work is if you and maybe one other person claimed to not have characters/justification.
But as town with that PM, why would you have cause to believe others wouldn't corroborate your claim? No, you argued against it right away. Indicating you already knew it was wrong, something you would only reasonably know as mafia.
It's great that you think I'm a smart player. But being smart doesn't preclude you from doing dumb things at times. Townies, as a general whole, do dumb things all the time. I've had my share of "wtf that was stupid" moments. Your recollection of my play is not entirely correct.. and your basis for scuminess, like what you implied for rational in DP1 with recounting his actions, is pointing out actions without connecting them to underlying motives.
You are otherwise able to do it because of your read on rational where you recognize rational believes what he says, and so its clear something being dumb to you is not what actually determines the affiliation. Rather, whether or not the person generally believes what they are saying.
*Applauds* your read on Rational recently was actually decent, not anything necessarily indicative, but sensible nonetheless. Then you just had to, like utility, show that supplied reasoning was BS, and selectively apply it, otherwise belying that your reads are contrived/faked.
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@TheHammer
The difference between you and RM is that I expect you to be significantly smarter than RM.
This is just another way of saying, it's scummy because it's dumb. As you said, Rational believes he is providing good points. What leads you to believe I don't believe I'm providing good points?
Note, "I expect you to be smarter so ur scum" is tautological to "ur being stupid so I think ur scum." When you say one you are saying the other.
You do understand you are trying to establish that's not what you did? Lol my lord you are so scum.
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@drafterman
To be fair it's not like you make a bad point. It's a decent one. Vaarka and Hammer are the scum team. If either was inno it'd give me cause to reconsider regardless. But fmpov if town doesnt lynch you or hammer today, we are just gonna end up doing it tomorrow anyways, and I'd rather not lynch between you two at MYLO.
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@TheHammer
Ignoring that you think it's dumb. Obviously being dumb isn't indicative of affiliation. As Rational is doing the same but he is town for the same reason.
Seriously,
[Budda] throws so much complete nonsense out too it makes it hard to believe he's town
[Rational is a] dumb townie, is giving useless info that he thinks is helpful
Interesting that you only mention Danielle and Drafter....
I don't recall seeing enough of anyone else to have reads on them, granted, I have skipped reading pages at a time
And the read on Supa disappears, lol. He doesn't recall someone whose posts were giving him cancer to the extent he was cool with lynching them.
Again, that kind of inherent inconsistency is evidence you are contriving/faking these reads. "Person B is scum for Y reason, Person A is scum for Y reason" is total and blatant selective application. Again, faked.
And you call me dumb? Who TF is the one who can't even provide a post that is consistent with itself? To be clear, I dont think ur dumb, no, i just think ur scum whose grasping at straws, and has been pulling analysis out his behind.
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@Danielle
@David
@bsh1
@Vader
After this we will let TUF's game finish. Then Danielle and Supa can start at their leisure/when their games are filled. The "at their leisure" not to mean you can say, starting ur game weeks after it was filled like what lunatic did 😂. But like, if you have to delay for a few days for reasons after sign-ups are filled.
Upon their games starting, the next two people in line go to sign-ups as they are ordered on the list. So if say Supas game starts but Danielle's is delayed, Virt goes to sign-ups but bsh1 waits.
Sound fair and gucci?
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Ongoing
Lunatic- Bloodline Mafia - DP2
Sign Ups
- Supadubz(Choice: US States, Sports Teams, Fortnite Guns)
-Danielle
In the Hopper
- Virtuoso
- Bsh1
- Vaarka
- TheHammer
- Buddamoose(Custom Theme: Shadows of Twilight or The Sea Dogs Curse.)
On Hold
__________________
I like how the on hold list was emptied soon after people were placed on it.
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If it's US States I'm calling Florida as Third Party or mafia. That state is out of it's mind 😂.
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@drafterman
Whoaaaa buddy, have you never seen a gnome or orc before? We're not enemies, we came here to seek a place for our group to shelter for the night
I put my hands up showing them clearly so to make it known I'm not a threat, and continue to try to persuade him.
The shopkeep in town sent us here after we traded goods with him. That's it, we aren't monsters or invaders. We were sent for by Baron Zarovich. I have the letter, I can show you if you don't believe us!
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@drafterman
Not what I meant, but fair enough
You mean the framer postulation I take it? Understanding your interpretation of balance is your own. I disagree with you it's likely. Likely maybe in the form of a JoaT. But don't think it likely the framer would be independent of the janitor in that scenario.
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On top of that, you compiled parts of the archive. That itself requires at least examining games in small part. This eximination otherwise affords clues to the players in the games playstyles. I would know, I assisted with the compiling of the list during the time F-16 was compiling it along with him and Socialpinko.
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So why even bring it up at all?
As in, that you haven't played a game with him. Seems like you were just trying to pull something out ur behind that facially seems to support your investigation. "I'Ve never played with him" so obviously you have cause to investigate him.
Except, you have. "Oh that was so long ago", is irrelevant. I wasn't the one who made the false claim, you did.
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@TheHammer
On top of that, how about you actually address the reads on you?
"this is dumb" doesn't count. Especially when with a janitor, taking claims at face value is itself dumb AF.
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@TheHammer
How about you actually supply reads on everyone? There is plenty to be able to gauge that at this point, and has been for quite some time.
Are you unable to? I wonder why?
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@TheHammer
A thousand apologies, Budda, for not remembering the one game I played with drafter's alt account two years ago. And drafter has one of the biggest reputations in DDO mafia history, knowing that he's good isn't odd at all
So why even bring it up at all? Also, there's prolly more, I just dont have the patience to sift through 280+ games.
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PR like cop or doc(result generally irrelevant.) and *whoops* now people wanna lynch the guilty.
Or not want to lynch the PR. Understanding wanting to be cautious, there is such a thing too much caution. Waiting for a majoritively scum read and otherwise null read player to claim is excercising too much caution. We could have already known Hammer's affiliation today.
Sure we wouldn't have had the "guilty". But we would have had something conclusive to gauge reads off of. And if he flipped town, that would have been due cause for near everyone to reconsider reads, including myself.
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@drafterman
I'd rather Lynch someone we know is scum independent of unreliable results.
Same, hence why I'm voting Hammer.
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Cause exactly what usually happened, happens with scum.
*Cause exactly what usually happens with scum, happened here.*
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@Greyparrot
That's ridiculous... I was the last vote on hammer at the start of this day.
Also, how is this operative in your defense? Mafia vote for their teammates sometimes. It's a handy way to distance themselves from one another. What I mainly took away from that is that your usual perceptiveness to what is most beneficial to town wasn't present in this regard.
Cause exactly what usually happened, happens with scum. You have scum about to be lynched, they claim PR like cop or doc(result generally irrelevant.) and *whoops* now people wanna lynch the guilty. Understanding 2 v 1 trades don't benefit maf, 2 v 1 is alot better than 1 v 1, no?
Hammer was gonna get lynched unless his claim was a major PR with a major result. This changes the move from being out of the general behavior of typical mafia, to being fully within the general behavior of typical mafia.
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@Greyparrot
and anyone who defended hammer is susp.likely hammer/dani team
Mind you, you are defending him. Are you automatically suspect if Hammer comes up town? I would think not, nor would you be. These kinds of dispositions otherwise ignore that townies are incentivized generally to argue against what they view is a ML, just as you are doing RN.
I find this lack of self-awareness and lack of applying your own rationale to yourself to be concerning AF.
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@Greyparrot
and anyone who defended hammer is susp.likely hammer/dani team
Dani isn't defending Hammer. She just straight up said she wanted to lynch him over Drafter.
GP, I think ur town so im gonna try to reason with you here. Hammer is scummy AF on so many counts, Drafter us not unless you have a case to be made that hasn't already. You are otherwise following SoP and the safe bets too strictly fmpov. It lends more credence to you being town cause your advocacies have been consistent in being the safest bets.
But the safest bet independent of behaviors and claim analysis. When you factor in behaviors and claim that said bet looks far from safe, it becomes near conclusively the wrong call fmpov.
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@Danielle
think they already knew you wouldn't be the NK last night. It's not like they could fake claim innocent child without getting killed on DP3.
Given the janitor it would be true they likely had no intention to target me last night. But that still leaves them with incentive to convince town not to protect me for NP2, cause that's exactly when they have to do so or I get confirmed DP3.
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@Danielle
Okay cool, we agree. Let's lynch Hammer. I think GP is the other scum
I disagree, but am willing to compromise if Hammer ends up scum because then we still have one ML to spare to test that scum read out.
Also agree that if Hammer flips inno we lynch Drafter.
VTL Hammer
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@Danielle
because I'm not sure TUF would essentially give TWO fake claims. Thoughts?
This is pretty much exactly why any claims made previous to a janitor, especially very early, have much more weight than otherwise. Because mafia are, as I said, incentivized to not claim so they can build their claims around that janitored player.
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@Danielle
True, but if I were Mafia I would have said the same thing.
This is true, it's not like GP is bad. But also consider that such advocacy would generally bring undue attention upon oneself. Something mafia is generally disincentivized to do.
Yeah, his play was pretty anti-town, but I guess I don't hold his play in high esteem.
Vaarka isn't stellar, but fmpov he is good enough to have an understanding of how anti-town that is. It more seems like he was trying to keep doc off me so they could target
me DP2 without worrying about doc being on me and making the save.
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@Danielle
That looks facially suspicious
advocating for doc to stay on an unconfirmed that is. It's gonna look sus AF. But again, its so town it hurts once you factor in the unconfirmed is an innocent child claim.
This type of facially sus but extremely pro-town advocacy is a big town tell. In line with Virtuoso in beginners 1.1 advocating for doc to out. Normally sus AF, but in the scenario it was actually 100% the best play.
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@Danielle
I'm pretty sure GP and Hammer are scum tbh.
Yeah but DP1 GP advocated for the facially suspicious. That is advocated for doc being on me. That looks facially suspicious(otherwise generally avoided by mafia) but is about as pro-town as it gets in advocacy.
Vaarka advocated for me not getting doc under any circumstance, and tried starting another wagon on GP before getting called out by me and voting for Hammer. Plus his FoS's we're all over the place. It's Vaarka/Hammer fmpov.
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@Danielle
If we lynch Hammer and he's inno, are you down with lynching drafter tomorrow?
This is precisely what I've been saying either for a Hammer or a Drafter lynch. If it's an innocent flip, then tje other gets lynched, period.
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^^Disorder in the court mafia. Note: "TheGreatandPowerful" is Drafter and that was well known.
I hinestly dont have the patience to look at all 280+ games in the archive. Suffice to say, that you never played with him is false and doesn't make sense cause you obviously have paid attention enough to be able to judge his skill as a player given you believe him to be good.
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@TheHammer
I've also never played with drafter before. I don't see why this is such a weird pick for you
Bullshit Seventh. All the mafia games on DDO you played in and never once with Drafter? Sureeeee
I'm going back to DDO and checking on this Seventh. Cause I'm pretty sure you are full of BS
drafter is good at mafia, so he should be investigated
If you've never played with him, how do you know this? Lol
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And so are multiple others in this game. Vaarka, Danielle, GP, myself. Yet, you investigate Drafter?
This btw is exactly why you provide reads on everyone as town. So your train of thought can otherwise be followed and doesn't come across as inconsistent. Again, if you are town look at your own actions and realize you've brought all this suspicion and distrust upon yourself.
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