Total posts: 3,178
To reiterate, GP fully is convinced im scum. Yet he is going to interject randomness to anyone visiting me, and discourage town PR's by consequence from doing so?
So he by virtue does not want any affirmation or result that might shed light on whether his read is accurate?
I'm not sure how much more aggregiously contradictory you can get.
So he by virtue does not want any affirmation or result that might shed light on whether his read is accurate?
I'm not sure how much more aggregiously contradictory you can get.
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@Greyparrot
Heads up town, it's important due to the nature of my role to broadcast my night action ahead of time, useless as it may be, otherwise randomness might screw with other town roles.I plan to target Buddha tonight.
Ok, so ur role will cause randomness to those visiting me.
FULL STOP
You think im scum. You should want me to be investigated. Yet here you are, discouraging me from actually being visited by any town PR's? Because you will be targeting me, and that will cause randomness for those visiting me?
Bruh you just admitted ur either a hider or bus driver.
Unvote VTL GP
Before we vote Supa, were getting this guys claim. This was a huge scum tell wrapped up in completely contradictory motives.
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@Greyparrot
There's no explanation for that ridiculous drop of your meta over 200 posts
Yet again i will point out that by saying this, you are only exposing, that you don't understand the meta 😂.
Also, that's highly convenient that you ignore the first twk questions from me, that are actually pertaining to that which would be highly indicative of affiliation...
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@Wylted
What i dont like is you saying you soft-claimed like it means something when your soft claim was, "my role is like something i played in an unwritten book that nobody here has or could have read because its unwritten."
You do understand the point of soft-claims is that they narrow down your claim in a way that is easily recognizable once claimed, and that "soft-claim" doesn't narrow down anything in a way that could ever be verified by anyone other than you.
This is akin to an "alibi" without any witnesses. Nobody can verify the accuracy, so it doesn't mean anything.
What I'm having a hard time getting by, is that most of your behavior has been centered around making yourself appear town, or setting up avenues to avoid suspicion. Your FoS of me, as 90% of it was you taking a meta debate, and passing it off like it means something to the game at hand, was less centered around establishing me as scum(90% based on a meta debate) and more about making yourself look more town fmpov(omgus).
This is because it again, 90% argued against that which isnt indicative of affiliation(which is why most people don't like meta arguments in game), rather whats indicative is whether behavior matches with meta philosophies. Also you were just shotgun responding to everything i said, without any regard to whether that actually is indicative of alignment.
Like I said, less about you actually thinking im scum, more about making yourself appear less scummy by virtue of arguing against everything i said.
A perfect specific example of this is in your "case against me" you argued both the angle that you had an independent motive and that the vote was placed to progress the DP.
-A soft claim that can't be independently verified
-An easily contrived town tell you want us to take as legitimate
-Leaving outs should suspicion arise from votes/observations/arguments.
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Speaking of motives, your first vote on Aporia was in line with your belief that targeting unknown quantities is the optimal path, but none of your other votes has been, and two have been antithetical to that.(me and Vaarka).
Meta wise, you may not have achieved leading town often from what I recall too often, but you consistently tried to lead. So I'm still left wondering why you are putting up so little of a fight when it comes to Aporia and myself taking the lead. Especially since you scum read me.
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@Wylted
Lunatic is not even coming online and will likely be replaced. Why don't you do something more constructive with your vote?
I like this post from you. Even if TR'ing him ur still analyzing him and paying attention.
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@Greyparrot
Your read on me already being stated, what are your dispositions on other players?
What has me concerned now is at least in US States, even with "tunneling" me you weren't really tunneling and were forwarding reads, engaging with plenty of people, etc. That engagement has dropped off substantively in this game, even as scum during bloodline you engaged fairly extensively with other players and plenty of time has passed for it to now be raising my hackles on you.
Your pursuit of me obviously isnt going to stick today. In US states you were forwarding potential partners of mine as well, but aren't doing so here.
Why these changes?
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To everyone else, GP tends to stick to his town/null meta very consistently. There might be slight variations here or there, but what he TR's, what he sus's, how he engages players, doesn't change much from game to game.
So substantive variations like engagement should fmpov, be highly telling. But what it is telling of regarding specific affiliation, depends. Its not fmpov as cut and dry as, "oh there's variation therefore = scum. Which isnt the case with anyone anyways, cause all players tend to slightly variate in behavior from game to game.
What has me concerned now is at least in US States, even with "tunneling" me you weren't really tunneling and were forwarding reads, engaging with plenty of people, etc. That engagement has dropped off substantively in this game, even as scum during bloodline you engaged fairly extensively with other players and plenty of time has passed for it to now be raising my hackles on you.
Your pursuit of me obviously isnt going to stick today. In US states you were forwarding potential partners of mine as well, but aren't doing so here.
Why these changes?
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To everyone else, GP tends to stick to his town/null meta very consistently. There might be slight variations here or there, but what he TR's, what he sus's, how he engages players, doesn't change much from game to game.
So substantive variations like engagement should fmpov, be highly telling. But what it is telling of regarding specific affiliation, depends. Its not fmpov as cut and dry as, "oh there's variation therefore = scum. Which isnt the case with anyone anyways, cause all players tend to slightly variate in behavior from game to game.
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@Vaarka
Why specifically did you vote Lunatic as opposed to the other inactives/relative inactives who havent posted reads.
-DPR
-McSloth
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@McSloth
Bud, we're gonna need to know who ur suspicous of and why. Who you think is town, and why.
Not providing anything all DP is prolly just gonna result in you and whomever else hasnt posted being focused on to start DP2, so it's be in ur best interests to at least try, understanding you've not actually played before, based upon you asking to be briefed on the rules of the game in sign-ups
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@Wylted
If you've made reads on others, where are they/can you relay them briefly again? If not, please do.
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@Wylted
What are your overall reads. So far you gave a read on me(scum), read on Vaarka awhile ago(town) but didn't ahree with getting Vaarkas claim so presumably he's stilk town to you, Supa(scum.), and McSloth(scum).
Why is Vaarka town to you?
Why is Supa scum and not town slipping?
Why is McSloth scum?(tho I get the impression you actually don't think that)
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Quick search on Martok reveals he seems like a strong character claim. The area of concern is apparently that "Martok" when he first appeared was actually imprisoned and being impersonated. But in regards to a relative disposition on whether Martok was good or bad, in the MU Martok is wholly evil, so non MU the char is solidly good presumably if thats how the "Mirror Universe" works? And being this is non MU(?) that means we're talking about either the good Martok, or the impersonator Martok.
Idk, Martok seems like a claim that could be packaged in by default within a PM , with being captured and impersonated, as a fake claim with the impersonator being scum.
Unvote VTL Supa
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Her returning to Barovia when her father and brother are dead and there is naught for her to return to is puzzling. She must be stricken with grief... do you happen to know the general timeframe she left?
(Pretty sure Ireena = captured is confirmed.)
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
@drafterman
(insight check to see if Snerp notices anything different like Roberts brought up?)
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@drafterman
What's this about a guest? We have no guest? Who is this Ireena?
I'm sure with your greater responsibilities it slipped your mind. We came to Vallaki together two days ago. Yesterday I asked the servant in the front vestibule directing people, if she arrived safely.
She assured me she did, telling me she was in the company of the Baroness. Ireena Indirovich, daghter of Koylan Indirovich, Burgomaster of Barovia, Lathander accept him unto eternal day.
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Lord Vargas? We met yesterday and you agreed to a vouchsafe as the feature act in your festival tomorrow? I actually came to pay a visit to a friend, Ireena Indirovich, who is currently staying with you as a guest.
Sorry about my friend here, he has a tendency to say things sometimes that are a bit loopy, such is the crowd you sometimes find with travelers.
Snerp expectantly looks over at Roberts, as if to say, "hey, start saying more crazy stuff, we don't need to get taken as prisoners and put into the stocks you dope"
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I say we get a CC from Vaarka then lynch Supa.
Inb4- somebody is going to think you mean "counter-claim" by "CC" 😂. Just watch.
I agree with this.
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@Vader
No, misreading it is you read the words differently what they said in the text.
Then by consequence you have misunderstood what was said... not sure where the failure to connect here is.
Are you positing that reading words differently than what is actually said in text, will result in understanding them correctly?
Misunderstand- to fail to understand or interpret rightly the words or behavior of.
Misread- to read wrongly; to misunderstand or misinterpret.
Misunderstand is quite literally in the definition of misread". How do you get, "these words mean two different things" from that?
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On a side note, you understand this doesn't have anything to do with my FoS, except to highlight the bs ur trying to feed people 😂
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you mention your other games but in the game you modded, when EthanG was in an uproar over thinking beginning game votes were to lynch:,
Post #36 US States DP1- https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/426?page=2
He's pressuring you to claim the state you were given by dudz, not to lynch you hombre. This is about the same mistake all first timers make, so no worries 👍
you want me to believe you missed this, you missed that there couldn't possibly be a claim preceding the first post of the game, missed that Aporia was asking for a claim, and have missed that early game votes just really aren't ever for lynches in both bloodline and your game, and went, "yup, there can be a claim prior to the first post of a game, and it makes sense the first vote on the first post of the game is for death."
Too much man, just not willing to do that 😂.
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@Vader
RVS=Reason Voting Situation. I asked for this
*Sigh*
No it literally means Random Voting Stage. "Reason Voting Situation? Like really? LMAO, didn't know what to do with the S in there so you just threw something in that doesn't really make sense didn't ya? 😂
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Random_Vote
Ok I did not say misunderstood, I said misread
*Sigh* if you misread it that would be syllagous to misunserstanding it. Unless one somehow is expected to come to a correct understanding, when misreading something?
Idk how I can defend myself against your claim by saying I misread
Your the one claiming you misread it. I do not believe that you legitimately thought a vote on the first post of the game, could magically have had a claim that preceded it.
I fully get you miss alot of things dudz, in bloodline I was TR'ing you in part because i got that almost right away into the first game playing with you. This is asking for me to accept that you missed way too much.
There isnt much of a way you can defend it. Cause you already have and i don't buy it for previously outlined reasons.
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@warren42
'atta boy Tex 👏👏
You seeing what i mean about his application of a TR reaction being selective?
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@warren42
You aren't going to amend your read on Wylted despite it being hingent on him not trying to act as if the post was legitimate, when he clearly did?
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@drafterman
Snerp walks into the mansion and looks around for the same lady who was coordinating people entering last time he was here.
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@drafterman
(we need to get Grahf and Roberts temp replacement weapons first. Can we just keep going from here but make official that the general store was visited and two longswords(one each for Grahf and Roberts) was purchased?)
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@Vaarka
If you're trying to sus me for saying "I said on the other hand twice" then wtf are you grabbing at
Ur being hyper-literal again, what about what I've said would lead you to conclude im sus'ing you because you said "on the other hand" twice? Because i specifically quoted that?
I literally in the first sentence of that post after that quote said, "And you act as if that matters?"
You are arguing about what you said in the post, I'm sus'ing you over what your posts clearly imply. The two are not one in the same, you know this.
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Budda (3/7) - Wylted, Supa, GreyLunatic (1/7) - VaarVaar (3/7) - Budda, Warren, Aporia
I want everyone to take a look at this vote count and sear it into your memory. Because this is what a "scum lead wagon v a town-lead wagon" looks like in action. Which is which requires the affiliation of vaarka and I to be revealed, but if it should, we have right here a vote count that very substantive vote count analysis can be drawn from.
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@Vaarka
What I'm pointing out is why are you jumping off his wagon when you clearly read his behavior or logic or whatever as scummy, simply because of theme analysis, a factor that's honestly pretty unreliable until someone has died?
I get that's what you are saying is why you asked the question. The point here isn't why you asked it. Why you asked it just reinforces the inconsistency in analysis, the selective application of suspicions, and the wholly different approaches you took.
Why you even tried arguing against you clearpy sus'ing me in that post, even if not explicitly stated would be beyond me. But I get it, you"ve been busted and are doing a shotgun defense where you are just trying to refute everything I say, without understanding you are making your own posts look even more contrived by consequence 😂.
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@Vaarka
I said on the other hand twice
And you act as if that matters? You clearly presented a behavior you thought was suspicious(the behavior itself is a commonly sus'd one), and asked me about it. You can't clearly implicate and imply suspicions, then act like you totally weren't sus at all just because you never explicitly stated it. That's being hyper-literal. It is hingent upon only being able to attribute that which is explicitly stated, when you attributed a motive to Dudz that was antithetical to what was explicitly stated.
You can't have it both ways and ur trying to have it both ways here. This isnt making you look any less sus fmpov
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@Vaarka
b/c I personally wasn't sure how it went down, seeing as I don't remember it and haven't gone back to check
Exactly, and you hadn't gone back to check whether or not my unvote on Supa actually meant I was no longer SR'ing him, but that didn't stop you from immediately posing a suspicion regarding one post taken in isolation, hyper-literally.
You stated, "your analysis of Supa has been mostly behavioral, why did you unvote him because of a character claim." This question has loads of answers that are self-evident, so why you didn't supply one of those motives, is inconsistent with you applying a motive to dudz that wasnt even in line with his behavior and hingent upon something being true of surrounding posts, that simply was not, and also was antithetical to dudz own posts trying to explain away the original sus for lazy voting.
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@Vaarka
Or it could mean a general curiosity of "why did you do that?" in which you could give me an answer and I would either go "oh okay" or "mmmm idk..."
You realize you just said, "it doesn't mean I thought it waa sus, I could of just been asking it to determine whether it was sus. Which means it was sus to you.
This is missing the point anyways. You performed straight up mental gymnastics to excuse Supas behavior, yet where were those mental gymnastic in regards to the player you asked a question of to excuse their behavior?
For someone who likes to point out scumteams, you sure are being obtuse about what you did being a clear indicator of you and supa being scumbuddies. Look at that, another inconssitency. You've been chock full of them this game, you know that?
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@Vader
Your post literally has next to nothing to do with why ur being scum read at this point. You're railing, and have been railing, against strawman l. Presumably because there really isnt a way to effectively respond to the the primary reason for SR'ing you.
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@Vaarka
When did I ever say I sus'd you
You don't need to, asking about my actions alone establishes you viewed those actions as sus. See this is that same selective hyper-literalness I was talking about.
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@Vader
Ok I misread a claim by Aporia
And this is too hard to believe. It was the first post of the game and you expect me to buy you thought I could have claimed previously?
Not that gullible
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And now you reference the fact that I defend Ap when I susp him
What does this have anything to do with you expecting us to think you legimately thought the first vote on the first post of a game was for both death and because of a claim made previously?
It was the first post of the game 😂. Legit dude, you got sus'd for lazy voting and just dug your own grave by trying to feed people some astounding BS that requires we think you the equivalent of a rock to hold as truthful.
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Post #247 Page 10, the post directly proceeding me outting that he was directly informed of mafia pm alternatives by me. This independent of the numerous threads, including the sign-up thread for beginners series 1.0. 1.1 being the game for which i sent him the aforementioned chatzy link.
"I remember the chatzy link now"
Again, I remember, as in he forgot so by consequence his post was him genuinely asking that question.
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@Aporia
Then again I can see a line of thinking on Wyl's part
He is trying to pass of that it was genuine, the following after the quoted, is literally not even applicable theory as his own behavior and attempt at passing it off as genuine preclude it fmpov.
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So the question was a reaction test? Interesting. I don't find it affiliation indicative from him to do something like that then. That quells my Wylted suspicion for now. He's just a touch above null, but below a townlean. Suuuuper light townlean for him for now.
Warren no, you are operating as if Wylted claimed it was a reaction test, as if Aporia ever said that. He clearly is trying to pass off that it was legitimate.
"I remember the chatzy now"
As in, he had forgotten, so he didn't know, so please TR him for something easily contrivable. The point is its obviously contrived, but he has tried/is trying to pass it off like it was a genuine post.
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@Aporia
Unvote VTL Vaarka for a claim
@Aporia- help pressure hombre, and we should get Wylteds claim too. Ultimately I'm cool with a lynch on Dudz or Vaarka right now when its all said and done.
We should, however, make sure to get analysis from those who haven't posted before even seriously tackling who to lynch fmpov.
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@Aporia
Regarding GP/Wylted, I'm leaning towards Wylted being scum if GP is, but if Wylted is scum, that doesnt necessarily make GP scum.
What are ur thoughts on what occurred to me regarding Wylteds reads from Warren's test, and his read of GP based off his own post. Which are fundamentally not much different? Inconsistency again to draw a presupposed conclusion.
He should have been TR'ing me for my reaction to Warren's, but it seems like he wantonly eschewed what he thinks is aa tow tell(per his read on GP) to scum read me cause I was SR'ing him.(classic omgus voting).
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@Aporia
Essentially, the conclusion appears to be already present and instills the premises to support itself.
Exactly!!! He's giving Supa all the benefit of the doubt in the world, but hyper-literally interprets my post in isolation to sus me? My god, you actually understood the implications behind something without it needing to be explicitly detailed. You are a seer among the blind, you know that right? 😂
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@Greyparrot
And again post #189 and post #195 just belie that you dont understand your own meta let alone mine. You state "I should know ur meta better than anyone"
then continue with, "but what i really can't get over is that Budda isnt asking me any questions."
When your own meta addresses that concern itself. Wondering why I'm not asking you any questions is the exact same as wondering, "why isn't budda asking me why I'm acting in line with my town and null meta"
The answer is self-evident you dingus.
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@Aporia
His sus of me was in post 269. I fully detailed why i think its a sus AF defense around the aforementioned posts.
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@Aporia
Post 266 and post 276 on page 11.
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And on second thought, while contemplating it in the shower im gonna move Wylted to sus. See, my reaction to Warren's test and GP's reaction to his post, are rooted in the same kind of fundamental reaction.
Noob players asking obvious questions in the DP is taken as generally town because its presupposed they would ask such questions in the mafia pm. Just as wylteds post would generally be seen as town because it presupposes if he were mafia, he would already know and wouldnt be asking.
Yet, he TR's GP's reaction to his post, but sus's my reaction to warrens. This is wholly inconsistent application that highlights that read was prolly BS and is circumspect scumhunting at best.
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@Greyparrot
Buddha is completely off his meta this game.
Dude you don't even understand your own meta and you want people to think you understand anyone else's?
Sit down Jim Acosta, theres people actually playing here trying to win and you aren't helping with being the fake news of this game.
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Wylted/Greyparrot- I'm waffling on whether or not hes scum at this point. On one hand I see a few things as scummy, on the other on a reread have noticed he has had some nuanced analysis.
The issue here is I'm seeing GP as town. His behavior has been in line with his general town/null meta for the game. And at this point, my main sus of Wylted is for what looks like a coordinated interaction with GP.
I'm unvoting and moving Wylted to null. While GP is a TR to me. I can't quite rule out that Wylted was acting solo, and GP just took supplied bait cause he has TR'd this kind of thing before.
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Supa/Vaarka- This is another pairing that's stood out to me. Vaarkas defense of Supa was sus AF, and when placed in conjunction with his sus's, highlights he is being selective and inconsistent in his analysis.
Supa independently, to be truthful and town, as outlined, must have explictly thought the very first post in the game was both to lynch and because of a present claim. To repeat that, his explicit excuse was c/ping the following from Aporia
VTL Budda for claim
And saying he thought this was because of a claim i had made. When this was the first post of the game.
But that's not where it's stops, because the only reason this excuse was made, was to reinforce his explicitly stated reasoning for voting Aporia being that he wanted to know why Aporia was voting me for death.
You see, the both are hingent upon him both still, games in, assuming VTL's during RVS(let alone the first post of the game) are for lunch. AND that he legitimately thought a vote in the first post of the game, was because of a claim made previous to the first post in the game.
Just let that sink in, for Supa to be telling the truth, he would have to have gone: 'oh it makes sense there was a claim made previous to the first post'.
I'm wondering how anybody could honestly be buying this? Like, for anyone who does, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale you'd be hella interested in 😂.
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Now we're gonna get to singular players where i havent seen a realistic potentia connection/pairing witeh anyone.
Aporia- This hasnt really changed. Aporia(SPinko) has kept providing what I view as pretty solid analysis.
Warren - Im slight town on him at this point. I have a hard time believing a person would be so audacious as to evidence a "reaction test" only with a game where they were mafia, doing the same thing, but fully intending not to get caught. This is wholly WiFoM though, more of a "gut" read in a sense.
Argent- His analysis has ranged from solid to misguided. But overall I'm seeing him as town RN. He seems to be thoughtfully approaching the game and genuinely scumhunting.
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People who have not posted and/or not provided analysis from what I've seen
ILikePie5
Lunatic
McSloth
DPR?(I'm spacing on who DPR even is?)?
TR's
Aporia
Argent-
Grey
Slight TR's
Warren
Nulls
Wylted
Pie
Lunatic
McSloth
DPR
Sus
Vaarka
SR's
Supa
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@ILikePie5
@McSloth
Have Pie and McSloth posted?
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@Earth
@TheDredPriateRoberts
Sorry, i got a bit overzealous. He's right that its up to you guys.
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@drafterman
(yeah, but what if he already uses it and we're in a fight after that it's needed again?)
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
(you and grahf go back to the general store and purchase a longsword each to use while they're being silvered. Its fine, we can afford it, LS's are i think 15 or 25 gold apiece.
While you guys do that, I (and anyone else who wants to come along excluding you and grahf cause swords) can go to the Burgomasters and pay Ireena a visit. We can meet up at the gate where Yev and Szol will be too. Then head to the winery 👍.)
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