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I held off on WyIted for all of yesterday because Moozer was objectively worse, but at this point in the game, out of everyone left, he's the scummiest person in the room.
I'm at work right now- I'll lay out my reasoning for why later.
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It's amusing that we're using host politics as a basis to make decisions here.
But anyway, I think people who are saying to let Moozer confirm himself by targeting Lunatic are missing the point. If we say that out loud for the entire Mafia to hear, then the Mafia is incentivized to kill Lunatic regardless of whether Moozer is actually Mafia or not. And if that happens, we end up right back here with an unconfirmed Moozer, yes?
"The person I gave the ability to got nightkilled" is a transparently easy way for someone claiming this type of role to get around actually confirming themselves.
I don't want WF out, and we're running out of time here, so...
VTL Moozer
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@Moozer325
To be frank, I think the Governor ability's disjoint with your ability is what sinks your claim. They don't mesh well together and it creates potentially weird situations, such that I don't really believe Casey would include both. This is why my Conditional Vigilante claim last game didn't work.
Just in case you are in fact Town, at this point I'd much rather you post a detailed legacy about who you think is Town/Scum. Help us out, here, if we're off the right path.
...or spew your teammate Mafia, that would be useful as well.
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
So if whiteflame is scum then casey is a bastard mod.
Counterpoint: There was a scum role last game that said explicitly in its text:
you will investigate as if you were a Vanilla Townie.
That being said, it seems fairly unlikely for the exact same thing to show up again. If WF is scum, that makes the most sense in a world paired with you than that specific role being used.
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My vote is spiritually on Moozer, but I'll hold off on hammering in case anyone else has anything else useful to say.
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He plays a very convincing town as scum as we saw last game, but everything I’ve seen from him so far is just too authentic for me to make him fully null.
If it's any consolation, I intend to confirm my role (not alignment, unfortunately) tomorrow and it can't be prevented.
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Well, unless there's a Mafia Odd/Even Night ability, I suppose.
In that case, maybe the team really is as easy as Moozer/Austin. Austin's hard defense certainly didn't do him any favors.
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Mm. I just took it as a given that it would've been Night 2, haven't seen design like that before.
Unless someone else has an odd/even Night ability, that might actually hostspew Lunatic clear.
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@whiteflame
Oh, I suppose I'm the idiot here, then.
Unvote
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Gah, they're both bad, but I don't see them being paired since Lunatic cleared WF who's pushing Moozer. Doesn't make sense from a strategic perspective.
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Because we already did. He had TWO DPS
That does make me wonder... If he had used it Day 1 when the Night got skipped, what would have happened? It seems very ambiguous- he specifically said "for the night" which suggests it only applies the night after use.
This is sort of the line of reasoning that caught my false claim last game- another role exists that makes it seem off.
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I'm suddenly okay with giving Moozer some time to grant the doctor ability.
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Well, that's remarkably simple.
On odd nights I can investigate a person to see if they are a vanilla townie or not.
We haven't had an Odd night. Night 1 was skipped, so last night would have been Night 2. Meaning you shouldn't have a check.
VTL Lunatic
That's not even mentioning that every instance I've seen of Vanilla Cop has always includes goons as "Vanilla."
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@Bullish
Do you think Moozer is Town by extension if WF is scum and pushing him? Give me your "why," I'm listening.
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I mean, I would say "There's no way that someone would be that stupid," but Owen did claim Miller without a lick of irony and then tried to use that exact defense.
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@Earth
I don't think that's a good reason to townread Moozer here. There was a full 8 and a half (9?) hours left in the phase- Evening/Post-work for the US-based people here. Pie had also pinged a bunch of people, so it was pretty likely that someone was going to come in to hammer.
And also, I did say earlier that I was going to come back and explain my reads list... which also had Moozer in the bottom tier.
In my opinion, the better reason to call Moozer Town is that the "I forgot" justification is actually believable based on his playstyle. From the way I've seen Moozer play, it's not unreasonable to me that he might've gotten confused about how it worked or gotten thrown off by the Day Phase timing.
If anyone wants to chime in on the playstyle of Town Moozer vs. Scum Moozer, I'm all ears.
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Moozer's claim is bad, but I don't want to turbo kill him. I'd like to hear from more people today, especially Lunatic
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@WyIted
No, I haven't claimed, but I'll confirm my role tomorrow. All you need to know right now is that it does target someone at night.
Bullish's ability appears to be one shot, and Owen's are each listed as 1x. Strengthener doesn't imply anything about limited shots.
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@WyIted
Pie's role looks like it visits.Do we have claims from anyone who has a visiting role at all and if so who I have been a bit inattentive
Mine also does.
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@whiteflame
3 VT, 5 Town PRs? If real, then it does definitely make sense for a Goon to exist. Pie's and Bullish's (if Town) roles aren't super powerful either, so I can see this just being a low-power game all-around.
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@Lunatic
@WyIted
@Moozer325
Hi all. Good call on Owen.
I'm admittedly not completely torn up by Pie dying, because I was getting a bit worked up in my head over whether he would hellbus a partner like that for fun and profit and to try and spew himself Town- but I suppose not.
My immediate POE of WyIted/Lunatic/Moozer hasn't changed a whole lot. Though, granted, my reasoning on Moozer somewhat depended on him having stronger teammates who were steering discussion away from him. I'm willing to hold off a bit there.
WyIted hard defended and tried to nudge the vote off Owen, so from a Level 0 perspective, I think it's worthwhile to look there. He did eventually vote Owen, but only after it was clear the vote wasn't going to shift.
Lunatic has felt very off compared to last game. He feels like less of an entity who's participating and more of just a floater. I know he might be busy, but it's jarring. And Post 66 in the last phase is... not great. The justifications are waffley and there's no real stances taken that couldn't be changed on a whim.
Moozer also needs to give me more, and I'm still weirded out about the way everyone seems to be sort-of disregarding him. He was on the "obliterate Owen" ride following the claim, so I'm willing to leave him in outer POE now to post better content.
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I think Banana is hard spewed Town by Owen- I don't think anyone was actually considering her, but I wanted to say out loud that she should absolutely never be on the table today.
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Current Mafia:
Casey - Classic Movies Mafia
Signups:
None
In the Hopper:
Lunatic - Yellowstone Mafia
Earth - Paper Mario Mafia
Mharman - Gunplay Mafia
Cerulean - Albums Mafia
On Hold:
None
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(Not ordered within tiers, to be clear. Not that that should matter a whole lot.)
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Earth Banana
Bullish Austin
WF Pie
WyIted Lunatic
Owen Moozer
This is my "off the top of my head" tier list right now. Will explain a little deeper later. Moozer not getting any attention is a little interesting, though- did I miss a reason why we're townreading him?
Bullish Austin
WF Pie
WyIted Lunatic
Owen Moozer
This is my "off the top of my head" tier list right now. Will explain a little deeper later. Moozer not getting any attention is a little interesting, though- did I miss a reason why we're townreading him?
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@WyIted
I think I've ended up with Banana and Earth as my top 2 townies- Earth for the willingness to clear things up early on and Banana for the VT claim. In my opinion, evil Banana probably tries harder to come up with a fake claim than VT.
I actually think owen leans town now and
Why?
The other guy who claimed vanilla Have to reread to remember who it was but whiteflame is the stronger town read between the tw
I hate to break it to you, but that is, in fact, Banana.
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I can understand the perspective of "If I claim this, they're just gonna lynch me again" but you need a little bit more confidence in yourself. If you're a villager you need to be villagery to be found!
But I think that's about enough rambling from me about conceptual matters. Back to the game.
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@Owen_T
I thought it would be best to just keep my head down.
I said this last game. If you're not a strong townie, you need to be open and vocal about your thought process because even if you're not right, you're still being transparent enough that other villagers can find you.
Now granted I was Mafia when I was saying that but it still rings true. I'm not sure why you would think keeping your head down is a good idea when you also got attacked for being "blendy" last time.
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Oh, an abbreviated phase. That's... not what I was expecting. But sure, it's still another 36 hours.
We've got Bullish role (but not alignment) confirmed now. Thoughts on giving a Day for them to lead?
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@Bullish
Well, there's one guaranteed VT according to the OP, so unless someone else is holding that and waiting, at least one is confirmed Town.
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@Bullish
This is why I dislike midday EODs.
in a 2v1 lylo scenario one of the players has to vote for themselves for my ability to work
Sure, but it could still work in a 4v3 or 3v2 LyLo, right? As long as the people cross voting aren't you.
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@Lunatic
FOS pie.
I guess the question is whether Pie would try to ram through the exact same strategy- throwing all the less active low hanging fruit to the vote- as the strategy employed last game.
(And, to be fair, Vanilla Town claims *are* a bit scary in that no actions are expected of them and they have a solid excuse for being alive late game, so I wouldn't 100% write off WF or Banana.)
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@Moozer325
Yes, I noticed from last game that Owen seems very easy to chop as both Town and Mafia- so I'm not fully on board with hammering him today, but I do think a full claim should be productive.
I'm curious, does anyone have a meta read on how Owen behaves differently as Town vs. Mafia if he's always at least a little scummy?
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@Owen_T
Agree that Owen should claim- hopefully, it's not something weird like Inventor Rolestopper this time.
VTL Owen for full claim.
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@Moozer325
Why do you prefer Banana, Moozer?
My take at the moment is to use Bullish's ability on someone- Owen or Banana are both fine to me and I wouldn't be devastated to lose either if Bullish has been bluffing this whole time.
I don't have any strong feelings on anyone right now and would prefer the extra time so I can form more coherent thoughts on everyone.
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I don't have any major lynch preferences at the moment- we could use Bullish's ability just to check it and give us some more time to discuss. In particular, so we don't have to shrug-yeet anyone for the sole crime of being inactive.
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@Earth
Cerulean is really powerful this game.
..Do you mean Bullish? I mean, I would love to believe I'm "powerful" in any capacity, but I haven't talked about my role at all.
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@whiteflame
@iamanabanana
As for why Cerulean's my scum buddy, come on: we have to keep the colors together.
All we need now is Charcoal and we've got a solid color palette going.
Hm, a Governor that can simply restart the day is actually *extremely* powerful, because it basically gives town a free win if the-Governor survives to LYLO without claiming-The Governor doesn't get wagoned in LYLO
This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking.
The skipping the night phase is the part that makes me a little bit nervous, because I imagine the host would add that element to a Mafia version of the role to avoid letting them have a free nightkill.
There's no point in pressuring someone who isn't here, but if Bullish pops in, I'll press him, although I think he'll comply.This logic is what makes it good strategybfornscum to just ignore the dp. Is that a strategy we should reward?
Inactives get pushed too. Here, watch this: VTL Banana.
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There is actually one amusing use of that I can imagine, depending on if you're allowed to queue actions, but it requires hiding the role until LyLo, so... not viable here.
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@Bullish
Yes, that's what I thought. The justification there is at least pretty believable.
Skipping the Night entirely is an interesting component of that ability- I've seen a "Veto the lynch" role before, but never combined with that. Doesn't really progress the game much beyond confirming your role.
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Mm. Fair enough, although there are several Town-aligned roles related to lynches that might also apply to a legal movie.
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Well, the character, at least. If my snap assumption upon reading that was wrong, I suppose that just makes me uncultured.
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@ILikePie5
Surely you realize that Bullish's claim is obvious?
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@Bullish
Isn't it obvious? Casey wanted to give me a runback after I got so close to winning last game.why are you scum with whiteflame?
Anyway, Unvote.
Now that we have claims and a bit of discussion surrounding it, we can actually get into the meat of the game. At the moment, I'm cautiously townreading Pie for instigating and going through with the role claims, and I also have a slight TR on Earth for the quick claim to clear up the confusion. (I don't believe the character is fake, although it could be Mafia-aligned, I suppose).
I think I want to poke at... VTL Austin for a moment. Talking about the claims generating discussion early but not actually participating in any such discussion.
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@whiteflame
I think by the end of this game I will embarrass myself with how few of these movies I've seen or even know about (can't say I'd ever heard of The Ten Commandments or Miracle on 34th Street before today).
but it’s noteworthy that the result has strayed from the original idea without any substantial pressure on those who have claimed. (WF)
The original idea is to create conversation and use that as a jumping-off point, yes? And also to try and force scum to come up with a fake claim immediately. I don't think we've strayed too far from that.
Casey is an atheist so I just assume anything christain is scummy (WyIted)We get it you are miracle on 34th street. Who cares. I buy your claim anyway (WyIted)
So Christmas movies aren't Christian enough to be suspicious by that logic? I guess I buy it. Christmas is so commercialized these days...
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@Bullish
@iamanabanana
Woe is me, for I am irrevocably and totally doomed. My soul is forfeit. My heart is shattered to a million pieces. My mind is degenerated to a mere husk of its former glory.Next person to post is gayLooks like Cerulean is... 0.o
...
Anyway, Unvote and VTL Bullish instead.
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@WyIted
VTL EARTHmod psych
What do you mean by this? You don't think Casey would include that as a "Classic" movie?
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@whiteflame
A movie is a movie, there's a lot of things it could be, so I'm not feeling too bad about outing mine.
After last game and realizing how annoying it is to actually come up with a fake claim on this forum, I do definitely agree we should at least be getting some information from everyone so they can't weasel their way out later.
With that in mind... VTL Whiteflame. A little pressure never hurt anyone.
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@Earth
Ah, okay. I guess I might as well say mine too, since I've practically hard claimed the movie already. I'm Spartacus- thought something might have happened with the "I am Spartacus! I am Spartacus!" scene.
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@Earth
It's more ancient.
I doubt Casey gave us the same movie if that's what you are asking.
That's why I called it ridiculous, but from the one scene I know about this movie it... could maybe be a thing? And me saying that probably outs the movie exactly, but I think I can live with that.
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@Earth
That's... interesting.
Do you think Casey did something a little ridiculous? If you know what I mean.
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