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@dustryder
Let me give you a scenario, one main stream media reports on a story, they run a few articles regarding it, or report it as breaking news. Other news outlets with the same agenda then report on the same thing over and over again (probably 5 or 6 networks). The first media outlet finds out that it was inaccurate, then in one statement apologizes for it, and it usually has to be a pretty big inaccuracy. They make some tiny apology on the last page of the newspaper, or in a tiny segment of the show. It is too late, half the country never sees the apology and does not realize it is inaccurate....Apologies don't mean anything.
And if it has been long enough where most of the country has already forgotten, they feel no apology is necessary.
Here is something else I distrust, and I can't see why people don't see it as well. The Washington Post claims they are in possession of a letter from Mueller to Barr saying that he mislead the public about the findings of the report. They quote just a few lines from this letter, but will not show the whole thing to the public.
Everyone wants to see the full Mueller report, that the Government won't release because of Grand Jury information (an actual law on the books), but the news outlets won't publish a full letter? Why? Because they have probably taken that letter out of context as well.
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I just love how people waste their time on trying to prove that Trump voters are stupid so they can sleep well at night. Or better yet, insist that they are, and write articles that list stats to back it up.
Like there is a group of intellectuals sitting around a table contemplating who these people are that voted for someone they despise so much. They do research and compare stats, check different correlation methods, and county voting census. God forbid opening their minds, finding one and asking them why they voted for him, but they don't want to talk to a racist, uneducated, closed minded person, who wouldn't even be able to explain why..... Lets just use the intellectual way of figuring this out, you know, just like the polls do that are 100% correct, 10% of the time.
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@mustardness
Just goes to show you how you believe outrageous things. 70%, give me a break... That is an absurdity, I don't care who said it. This is less believable than Trump saying he has 18 club championships..... only your stat matters in the grand scheme of things, golf doesn't, yet the media seems to think it does.
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@mustardness
You claim this as Truth...
70% of Trumps presidency is related to influence from Russia via various methods of interference and meddling in USA elections.
Please show me where you came up with this. TDS at it's finest, and more dishonest social media misleading information from you. You must be a troll from somewhere else trying to influence the 2020 election.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
It isn't complicated to fire people, especially if they are white. You can always find a reason to get rid of someone if you think it is to the benefit of the company, it takes a little bit of work, but it definitely can be done if you want it to. What is harder to do is fire a person of color (minority), because the race card is pulled quite a bit, even if the person is horrible at their job, or if you have to meet objectives of having a certain percentage of minorities to keep your company status for contracts. You have to make sure that every i is dotted and every t is crossed, otherwise it is not worth it for the lawsuits, even if the cost of training someone else is worth it. They have to really do something wrong, like steal something, or getting in a physical altercation.
There is a girl at my work that is horrible, just horrible, and they just won't get rid of her because she is black, and she is the only black person that works in the office, we have a lot of people in the field that are black. I would put a thousand dollars on it, that if she were white, she would have been gone a long time ago. And it doesn't matter who takes her place, black, white, whatever, as long as they can do the job right. That is the way it should be. You should not be scared to fire someone if you think someone else can do a better job. Just my opinion.
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@3RU7AL
Feds should concentrate mostly on military, be in charge of all facets to keep our country safe from threats.
Both foreign and domestic? Yes.
They should regulate certain things to a point...
Ok, I agree with this statement.
but not impede on businesses decisions on how they pay their employees, there should be no minimum wage, just like there should be no cap,
And do you also believe that labor unions should be similarly unimpeded by government? I want to abolish all unions.
they should, however, regulate to a larger extent companies inside the US that have locations outside of the US, and any business relations with other countries, and impose tariffs to keep things competitive yet have incentives for keeping employees and manufacturing in this country.
Regulate interstate and foreign trade, ok.
They should investigate potential monopolies.
Sounds promising. So do you have any concerns about price gouging or worker safety? Patents would come into play here, states would regulate worker safety, but lawsuits are already a factor to keep workers safe. No one wants those.
There should be less departments, and state governments should regulate themselves more.
So you'd like to abolish the Supreme Court? No, that would stay.... but the Federal laws don't seem to matter now anyway, they are being broken left and right. The only time that Federal laws are followed in the states is to not lose funding. If they care more about what law they are breaking than losing the funding, they will do what they want.
There should be no overlap on oversight, currently there are too many inspectors checking the same things at businesses that have different requirements.
Have you ever heard of "military redundancy" for critical systems? Yes, in the military, not for businesses.
If anything, the government should be accountable for doing exactly the same things as any business (which they don't have to do anything that they require businesses to do if they don't want to), and it should be run with more of a business model so they understand the value of a dollar.
The government literally prints money, so if they were going to "operate like a business" you'd have to compare it to some sort of business that literally prints money. They can't just print money, they must have justification for it, otherwise inflation would go through the roof.
The primary motivation for a business is to generate revenue. The primary motivation for a government should be to keep the peace.
A government who's primary motivation is to generate revenue would become a ridiculous malfunctioning contraption in short order. I don't agree, and their primary motivation is to make money via taxes, they just don't know how to spend it correctly. Why do you think rich people are audited all the time by the IRS, but poor people are not... because it is not worth it to them. If you are getting a tax refund of under $20,000, you are almost guaranteed not to get audited.
Right now they do not, and feel they have an endless amount of money.
They literally have an endless amount of money. That is what you and them think, that needs to change, because it is not true. That is why this endless investigation needs to stop... I don't want anymore investigations on people that are just going to be a waste of money. Republicans are talking about investigating the investigation, I don't want that either... let's move on and work together on getting shit done.
It should be much easier for people to be fired for not doing their job. Firing someone is almost impossible.
Even if you work in a "right to work" state, it is still difficult and often complicated to fire workers, for this reason, many companies opt to hire temp workers on limited contracts (90 days in many cases) so they can let people go at will without having to provide "just cause" and without having to pay unemployment benefits.
There is nothing wrong with this, if the Temp is good at their job, they usually get hired because there is a clause with the Temp agency that they can only work there for so long before they must pay them off for a full time employee. The government does this by hiring contractors, but they have to pay them an exhorbanant amount of money, so they can get rid of them anytime they want, but it just defeats the purpose because they spend more money than they would on a regular employee that they cannot fire.
This is the price we all pay for virtually abolishing labor unions. Labor unions were good at one point, and there are definitely some benefits, but the benefits don't outweigh the problems these days. They are making some people lazy.
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@3RU7AL
I am anti insurance, but we have to have it. I am not 100% anti government.
Please explain your personal theory of small government.
Feds should concentrate mostly on military, be in charge of all facets to keep our country safe from threats. They should regulate certain things to a point... but not impede on businesses decisions on how they pay their employees, there should be no minimum wage, just like there should be no cap, they should, however, regulate to a larger extent companies inside the US that have locations outside of the US, and any business relations with other countries, and impose tariffs to keep things competitive yet have incentives for keeping employees and manufacturing in this country. They should investigate potential monopolies. There should be less departments, and state governments should regulate themselves more.
There should be no overlap on oversight, currently there are too many inspectors checking the same things at businesses that have different requirements. If anything, the government should be accountable for doing exactly the same things as any business (which they don't have to do anything that they require businesses to do if they don't want to), and it should be run with more of a business model so they understand the value of a dollar. Right now they do not, and feel they have an endless amount of money. It should be much easier for people to be fired for not doing their job. Firing someone is almost impossible.
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@3RU7AL
Targeting majority Muslim countries for an immigration ban is "identity politics". There are many other majority Muslim countries that were not on the ban list...
Just because you arbitrarily ban 50% of an ethnic or cultural group from your place of business (and not 100%) does not make you "not a racist".
It doesn't make you a racist either. He was banning countries, not a religion. These countries were all pointed out by Obama and his administration (this doesn't make him "not a racist" right) years earlier as the ones to keep an eye on for terrorist promotion, behavior, or alliance, as well as additional background checks, treating them differently than people from other countries. All he wanted to do back then is put a ban on those particular countries until they could come up with a better vetting process, but it was challenged for way too long, until finally was upheld as being constitutional. It has since been lifted.
do you not want our country protected from possible terrorism? All it takes is one person.
Oh, you mean like Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski, Jared Loughner, Lee Harvey Oswald, Jeffery Dahmer, Charlie Manson, Stephen Paddock, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold...
If they were all from one country, I'm sure that would have been on the list as well. This makes no sense, they are all citizens of this country. You are just talking about crazy people.
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@3RU7AL
You have to in order to get the census correct, but we don't practice identity politics, except when it comes to undocumented immigrants.
Targeting majority Muslim countries for an immigration ban is "identity politics". There are many other majority Muslim countries that were not on the ban list... do you not want our country protected from possible terrorism? All it takes is one person.
Claiming that Barack Obama was a Muslim is "identity politics". No it is claiming that he is lying, he is the only one in the entire nation who called ISIS, ISIL.... That was strange, but everyone ignored it.
And as you point out yourself, focusing on asylum seekers and immigrants from Central and South America while simultaneously ignoring the nearly 50% of immigrants who overstay visas from Canada and Europe and Asia would also seem to qualify as "identity politics". They would all be treated exactly the same, but I don't think that people who over stay there visas, should be called undocumented, because they are documented, we know exactly who they are. We can find them, and get rid of them. People that sneak into the country undetected are the only ones that should be referred to as undocumented.
Well, then you must be 100% anti-insurance and 100% anti-government because both of these institutions take money from nearly everyone and only contribute back to a subset of people who need it. I am anti insurance, but we have to have it. I am not 100% anti government.
If I don't own a car, why should I pay taxes to maintain streets? I'm not even going to reply to these.
If I don't have any kids, why should I pay taxes to support schools? I don't support my property taxes going up because the schools can't afford to support undocumented immigrants kids. That is exactly what happened in my home town.
If I don't live to age 65, why should I pay into Social Security? I probably won't, but I have no problem paying into Social Security as long as it comes back to me if I need it
This is a ridiculous myth. I've worked many jobs in my life and the most difficult jobs paid the least. The highest paying job I've held is by far the easiest. BUT BESIDES THAT, nobody except nobody is suggesting that people can't get paid more for some work and less for other work.
it's not a ridiculous myth, it depends on what the industry is, how much profit is made, who owns it. If you work hard and don't get paid enough for what you are doing, then you ask for a raise or you go somewhere else.
Are you using your own experience like I did earlier and got chastised for it regarding the statues? Women are accusing men of getting paid more for the jobs that they do. This may be true, but it is not something the government needs to tackle, women just need to ask for more money.
Look, industry left to "their own devices" we will inevitably end up in an industrial nightmare, exactly like we did in the Gilded Age when workers were pitted against each other, worked for peanuts (or scrip) and had zero safety protections or realistic legal recourse for mistreatment.
That was due to an influx of immigration and people trying to find work, but people that were already here were making good money. This is not something that is going to happen again, unless we really do open the borders.
Consider the companies, like Lockheed Martin, who receive 75% of their income directly from the Pentagon. I believe it would be fair to say they are quite literally an extension of the government itself.
I agree... and they get paid so much money that they don't even know what to do with it, because the Government doesn't know how much these things really cost. You wouldn't believe how much private companies take advantage of the Government because they know they are morons. There are too many people doing too many things, for way too much money. My mom has worked for the DOD for years, and she is finally coming around to understanding what I am talking about. She would not let me speak about this in her presence in the past, now she wants to hear because she is now realizing how ass backwards it is.
I want limited Government, and free market.
Me too.
That is one reason our healthcare system is great,
The government protects big healthcare companies and restricts competition. The healthcare industry is not a good example of a "free market". My example was just trying to prove that we cannot provide free healthcare for all, and what the consequences of that would be. Just like choosing to end your life if you are on death's bed. I understand that this is something that a lot of people want, and I understand why. I would support it if I didn't think about the ramifications and consequences of assisted suicide.
because we have the ability of developing drugs using money from the free market for R and D.
The United States Government provides insane sums of money for extremely profitable companies to perform R&D. It is one of the most egregious examples of Corporate Welfare.
Agreed, and they have their own researches too.... wasteful spending. I know one of the researchers that tests on animals. She is dumb as a rock, love her to death though. She works for the Government and doesn't even know what subsidies are. She told me once that something that costs money at her job is all subsidized, like no one had to pay for it. I asked her if she even knew what that meant, she admitted she didn't.
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@3RU7AL
I believe the big difference in the North and the South was not so much slavery as it was the difference in climate and environment, which is vast, hence the need for it at plantations, which produced product and made money....Cotton and a great many other crops are able to be cultivated with paid workers and still remain profitable.Please cite proof of this.Some slaves were actually treated better than many blacks that were in the North, and many companies in the North definitely had a role in the continuation of slaves and the slave trade.This argument (some slave owners might have been compassionate) is an absolutely absurd attempt to defend the patently immoral practice of slavery.The north still treated blacks as if they were below them, it just was how it was back then. It was a societal thing that people thought was normal in those days. I don't think they are evil people, it was just evil times, I just think they were the product of their environment and trying to protect their own livelihood.The fact that some people treated minorities as second class citizens is absolutely irrelevant. The idea that just because some people are treated badly by some other people does not in any way justify the patently immoral practice of slavery. They are not equivalent and even if they were, it is utterly beside the point and has no bearing on the morality of slavery specifically.It is equivalent in the fact that the patently immoral practice of racism is a huge part of slavery... do we call racists people traitors? No, we call them racists. I am not justifying racism or slavery, what I am saying is it was the way of the times and the product of the environment. I don't blame them for growing up in that kind of atmosphere and having something grained into their brains. It was still a civil war, which is part of our history, let's teach this to our kids, and use statues as a way to remind them.Brothers fought with Fathers and neighbors joined, not so much for a cause all the time, but to stay alive and keep their businesses going, and protect their loved ones. Just like you may not always agree with whatever war we are in at any given moment, but you can be forced in by extenuating circumstances, especially if the war is on your own soil.Certainly a lot of non-slave-owners fought on both sides. This is also completely beside the point. The richest and most influential people in the Rebel army were slave owners. They fought specifically to defend their right to own other people.I highly doubt the richest, most influential people actually fought in the war. They may have believed in it and advocated it, but they weren't the people dieing on the battlefields. There were others fighting for what they believed was the right cause, just because they lived there.As far as the monuments go and the comparison to the Berlin Wall, I am speaking in terms of physicality, and the ability to see it in person, has a huge impact.I'm pretty sure the "unite the right" protesters didn't want to preserve monuments venerating Rebel soldiers to remind everyone of how horrific the practice of slavery was.Why not? It will show how far we have come as a nation, and what has been fought for to preserve every citizen's freedom.I do lean toward a republican world view, but I am pro-choice. I am for individuality, not for grouping people into categories.Ok, I'm pretty sure the conservatives still group people into categories. What other Republican "values" do you believe are the most important to you?You have to in order to get the census correct, but we don't practice identity politics, except when it comes to undocumented immigrants.I don't believe in taking away money from someone who worked hard, very hard, for it, and giving it to someone who did not, but believes they are entitled to it. People usually get paid based off of the complexity of the job and the hours they put in, some people are addicted to their jobs, or even married to their jobs. They should get paid more. But it comes with a price, making it hard to enjoy the money you make by always working. If they want to give it to someone in their family or donate it to a certain cause, that is their choice. The Government should never get involved with private companies decisions on how much they pay their employees. (unless they have bailed that company out for some reason) like the banks during the recession. None of those executives should have received their bonuses.I want limited Government, and free market. That is one reason our healthcare system is great, because we have the ability of developing drugs using money from the free market for R and D. It may be expensive, but it is there. Access to new breakthroughs may not be available to all at first, but it will be at some point. If we change our healthcare system to free for all, there will be no great advances in the healthcare industry, and the Government will hire incompetent people, require paperwork that will never get filed, and it will be more frustrating for everyone in the country. Anything the government touches usually goes to sh!t, and more regulations in the name of what the Government thinks is good, always have negative unintended consequences that outweigh the good it was supposed to bring.That is why people in other countries that have these systems in place tend to seek us out for help. Good doctors should be paid as good doctors, it gives incentive for them to work hard to be a good doctor. Not all doctors are willing to take a pay cut in order to serve the entire country.
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@Greyparrot
Obama is going around saying that it is because of him. But, if you remember, he said Trump would need a magic wand to do what he actually did. Now, it is all because of the groundwork Obama laid.
Yeah, taxes are funny. If anyone were going to go after Trump, it would be the IRS if they had a leg to stand on. Obama probably had them look into it even more considering the conservative companies and not for profit organizations they were targeting disproportionate to liberal companies.
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@Greyparrot
Trump lying about his golf score, (which I have yet to play with someone who doesn't)... Or DNC lying that the good economy is because of Obama (after they have lost the argument that economy is not good)?
I don't think the media will ever tire of it, and some people won't... the media will keep them at attention with more speculation.
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@3RU7AL
I would say that I like to preserve history of a civil war in our country, and many of the Generals were still respected after the war was over for their valor, and ability to command a respected army. Just like Napoleon, who is controversial, but his face is everywhere.
I believe the big difference in the North and the South was not so much slavery as it was the difference in climate and environment, which is vast, hence the need for it at plantations, which produced product and made money.... Some slaves were actually treated better than many blacks that were in the North, and many companies in the North definitely had a role in the continuation of slaves and the slave trade.
The north still treated blacks as if they were below them, it just was how it was back then. It was a societal thing that people thought was normal in those days. I don't think they are evil people, it was just evil times, I just think they were the product of their environment and trying to protect their own livelihood.
Brothers fought with Fathers and neighbors joined, not so much for a cause all the time, but to stay alive and keep their businesses going, and protect their loved ones. Just like you may not always agree with whatever war we are in at any given moment, but you can be forced in by extenuating circumstances, especially if the war is on your own soil.
As far as the monuments go and the comparison to the Berlin Wall, I am speaking in terms of physicality, and the ability to see it in person, has a huge impact.
I do lean toward a republican world view, but I am pro-choice. I am for individuality, not for grouping people into categories.
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@3RU7AL
Democrats also spread around falsehoods to people who believe their BS, is there proof that appointees are using these special interests to their advantage and not helping the people of the US? There could be good reason that Trump is deregulating a lot of these Fed Gov agencies, and you don't get to hear his side. Another promise he made was deregulation, which he is making good on.
The whole draining the swamp thing meant he was going to get rid of the people in the establishment that pull this crap. He put in his own people which does not mean that they are going to do the same thing as the last people in power. Democrats made the assumption that they would not be rich people, but rich people usually have the resume of getting things done.
Who do you think would be on Wall Street, poor people? I'd like some proof that he has lied about his promises instead of Democrats just saying so. I'm not saying he doesn't lie, because he does, but so does everyone else in politics, including democrats.
Remember, these are the people trying to let people in jail vote like they really care about them. They are just trying to get more votes for the democratic party in the future, just like they do with everyone else that should not vote. Voter manipulation.
On another note, this is also the party that erected all of the statues and monuments back in the days of Jim Crow and after the civil war, that they now want to destroy.
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@mustardness
I want to see an example of a false add placed on FB, or someone spreading disinformation on social media. I have yet to see anything like that, and I was all over social media during the campaign.
I did see some idiots repeating (pasting) the same thing over and over again in different threads, posts and comments on articles, but everyone knew to dismiss them. Kind of like you do with trumpanzee trolling, but you have a different message every once in a while.
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@mustardness
My point is that Social media did not have much affect on the outcome of the election, if any at all. You think it did, which is the title of this post. What you are doing right now is what Russia tried to do.... Create a bunch of fake FB, or other social media accounts (just like this one) trying to talk other people into voting for Trump, you are just doing the opposite. So right now, you are interfering with the 2020 election if you think that Russia did, because you are doing the same thing.
I could accuse you of being a hacker spreading disinformation.
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@mustardness
My post was right before that if you had any critical thinking in addition to reading comprehension skills... to help you out, it was Post #52, which had to be before Snoopy's post, because he posted a question to you regarding that post that you never answered.
I guess Post 52 was just too long for you to read, which I can understand, sometimes I tend to ramble on when I get frustrated.
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@Greyparrot
I read an article about Reality Winner, written by her mom, comparing her to Manafort, Papadopoulos, Flynn, and Cohen and how they got off with a slap of the wrist, when their accused crimes are nothing compared to hers. Her mother thinks that all of these people have influence and that is why they were granted leniency, which may be true to an extent.
But her true comparison should be with Hilary Clinton and her negligence with classified emails, which should be prosecuted in the same way, but she got off.
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@mustardness
You addressed my second post agreeing with you, not my first one that Snoopy pointed out twice in post #54 and #55.
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@mustardness
If you read my post you would see that I agree Russia interfered with the election, just like every other country does that has a stake in who wins the election. The US Government is probably one of the biggest culprits in doing this as well. What I don't agree with is the term Hacked, and I think the public is being mislead by the media by using this term.
And somehow this has something to do with Trump? I see you only like to read and pay attention to what matters in your own head, instead of using good reading comprehension skills.
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@Greyparrot
They will still believe that in their heads. It's like some sort of mental health issue, where emotions run high, and critical thinking is low on the totem pole.
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@mustardness
I watch everything, and come up with my own conclusions. You did not read my post.
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@Greyparrot
They explain that it was another fishing attempt that was successful by a Jon Podesta type person who clicked on something that they should not have. No change in the outcome of votes. This does not mean that the 2016 election was hacked.....
Someone may have gained some information that they should not have had, but that doesn't change the voting outcome.
This has nothing to do with Trump colluding, committing obstruction, or conspiracy (which is ridiculous when there is no proof of a crime) and overturning the election.
You have the media going over every single word of a 400 page document looking for things to report on.
We have turned innocent until proven guilty into guilty and you must prove your innocence. That is not the way our country works. I posted back before the election that Trump would be the eventual president, but, it would be good because he would be the most scrutinized president in history. I take this back, he is the most scrutinized president, but it is not good for the US. It has become a nightmare, a waste of millions of dollars, and the end of many peoples careers that would have never taken place if he was not elected.
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@mustardness
No, the words used are collusion (which by the way is not a crime), if they used conspiracy, that would be a crime. "Hacking" the election, which is not true either.
You didn't answer my question about hacking school grades. That would be gaining access to the grades, and changing them to reflect something different. Russia did meddle and probably interfered, but so did many others that you just don't know about, because it happens every time. You are doing the same thing right now, the only difference is, you have not created many different users saying the same thing. Unless you have.
I wouldn't put it past you because of your misinformation about what is actually going on in the US, and your belief that it is all immoral, and all Trump supporters are bad people, so you feel you are doing good for all of mankind, unfortunately, you are spreading more misinformation and division within our country. This is what the media plans on doing, and they do it all in the name of viewership. They feed the fuel to the democrats who disagree, not the other way around.
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@mustardness
Yes, more spearphishing emails, to upload malware... the vote tallies were not affected. This is the same thing that was sent to Jon Podesta. I'm sure more people got these as well. I guarantee the RNC got these too, and probably other voting facilities...
What is your point?
If you were in school and someone hacked the grading system, what would you think happened?
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@mustardness
Jon Podesta fell for a phishing scheme, which happens every day to all companies, and organizations alike. He clicked on something he should not have, then gave his username and password to the same company that should already know it. Everyone, who is not ridiculously stupid knows not to fall for this type of scheme. Unfortunately, it released some information that was useful to someone in Russia. Then come the 12 indictments of companies apparently tied to the Kremlin who acquired potentially damaging information about the DNC. The entire DNC was as dumb as Podesta. What to do with that information... give it or sell it to whomever is willing to buy.
The DNC wants to try to budget the country, when they couldn't even keep their own funds straight, they were literally broke.
A few of the companies in Russia indicted were willing to come to the US to defend themselves, but the US Government did not want to do it because they have no real concrete evidence, they were not planning on anyone actually responding.
So, if you want to call a phishing scheme, "hacking the election" be my guest. And if you want to call creating false identities on Social Media Outlets to advocate for Trump (they say there were falsehoods, which I have not seen), interfering with the election, be my guest. But that is all that "Russia" did. And for people that don't understand that "Russia" is a country, and not everything there is done by the Government, but they may have been involved at some point.
I think the Chinese interfered just as much, if not more than any other country.... but no one is investigating that because there is no demand and no outcome that would possibly get Trump impeached, so move to Russia where he has business dealings. The only reason this has happened is because people can't understand why Trump wanted to get along with Russia instead of staying adversaries. He tried to do the same thing with North Korea, it is the way he is, if he had business in North Korea, they would have investigated that. Sanctions are still there for Russia... Obama assured us before the election that there was no way for anyone to interfere, but according to you and 18 other intelligence agencies, they did, so maybe we should investigate the Obama administration for allowing the below explanation to be attainable.
Either way, these kinds of things are done every election, because every country in the world has a stake in the outcome of our election, just like you, why do you care so much? You don't live here. You could be a hack from another country just trying to sway us from voting for Trump in 2020 for all we know.
The term used by the media "hacking the election" is more of a falsehood than anything Russia could actually do. Many people on the left think that they actually accessed our voting system and changed votes to Trump.
Obama told Trump back in 2016 that he needed to focus on getting votes instead of whining about ways the election could be favored towards Hillary. I think it is time for Democrats and the left to take Obama's advise and accept the results. I would have accepted the results if Hillary won, but you are intolerant of different thinking, which is exactly what you say about "Trumpanzees".
Trump was asked time and time again before he won, if he would accept the outcome of the election after it was all said and done. People scalded him for being kind of vague on his answer, now it is the side that asked the questions that will not accept it. A bit hypocritical if you ask me.
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@TheRealNihilist
I think we did get off on a tangent there. So you are saying that anyone who believes that the statue's should stay up is in no way a fine person? That is what the protest was about, the unite the right came later. It is not far right to not want statues destroyed.
I agree with your A is better than B, so B can be destroyed... But what the cities and municipalities are saying is nothing about A, just that B must be destroyed without consulting the constituents of the town.
Anyway, I think there were fine people on both sides. I repeat his sentiment. I do not include the white supremacist in that statement.
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@TheRealNihilist
A is better than B, so B must be destroyed? Which is what you are saying.. Does that make sense?
Even though, some people appreciate B? And some people despise B, but no one who is actually living today, lived during that time period. A span of 180 years is different than a span of 40 years, like Mustardness' example. If people were still living and went through what they thought was a devastating time and they remembered it, I would be all for taking them down, but it lasted. Now it is in the past, and we need to remember, not destroy.
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@TheRealNihilist
I did not say we should destroy books..... That is what the Nazi's did, but you are partly doing that too when you destroy the physical history of our country.
Places of the Berlin Wall still stand, you know why? People want to see it. There are many pictures and many books regarding it, why still have it? Because it is a major attraction, it is now a monument to remember History. Kids can ask parents about it, schools can go see it, learn more about it and enjoy a nice field trip at the same time.
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@TheRealNihilist
Omar,
My apologies, and I meant to put in my post that I did not mean for that to be an insult. I guess that is hard to make clear when it does sound like one, but my tone is quite different than what you might expect. You are just young, like many of the people that have your beliefs, who grew up with internet access their whole lives. I was not on the debate team in high school, nor is arguing my favorite thing to do. I came on this website to get others opinions on what our country and the world is headed for, but I can also tell that you are not from the United States by how you spell certain words.
A picture may be worth a thousand words, but the real thing is worth a lot more. I have seen monuments in person, I have seen historical things that were built hundreds of years ago that have major significance relating to the past. Just seeing pictures, and reading books, don't do them justice.
It can go either way on statues and monuments, you can read a book, or see a picture of a monument, then want to go see it in person... or you can see it in person, then want to go read about it. I don't know why you are arguing that fact with me. I'm not saying everyone does that, it just makes more of an impact seeing a huge statue in person than taking a picture and tearing it down. This is opinion and not really something that can be debated. You have given no supporting evidence that monuments do not create interest, because there isn't any. It is an opinion.
We disagree on the importance of historical monuments, it is as simple as that. Age is probably one of the reasons we disagree.
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@TheRealNihilist
i can tell by your arguments, statements, grammar, examples, beliefs, and the way that you write, that you have not achieved maturity yet. You may be old enough to vote, but I'm assuming just barely. You don't understand what I am talking about, and won't understand until you have gained more experience, maturity, and understanding of reality. We can have this conversation again when you have reached at least 35 years of age, when you have finished school, found a career, bought a house, and support a family. At that point we will be on the same page, and we can continue.
Thanks,
DBlaze
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@TheRealNihilist
Looking at the cover of a book requires you to go to a library and see it. A monument is out for everyone to see, even if you are not looking for it, you drive past it and it can build interest unexpectedly, then you go searching for a good book. And I don't think the internet is a good option either, anyone can write whatever they want on the internet, but a book needs to get published. The chances that the book is more accurate than anything on the internet is greater.
Just like a new middle school that was built in my hometown recently, Hallie Wells Middle school. I was curious to find out who Hallie Wells was, so I looked her up and found out that she donated the land from her farm a long time ago, but made the stipulation that a school must be built on it. The council voted to name it after her. It may not be the best example because it is named after her for doing good, but it was still provocative, just like the monuments and statues are.
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@TheRealNihilist
Your argument is books exist, therefore we should get rid of statues and monuments. It's the same thing you are accusing me of.
I will read the argument written by linate in another post. I'm done trying to convince you that monuments build interest for young people in history.
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@TheRealNihilist
And many of the stupid comments were/are taken out of context just like the example we are talking about.
Either way, monuments do insight interest, that is one reason they are there, books are here to back up that interest. I'm not going to argue that point further, it is just common sense, which the country (and the world) seems to be losing a lot of these days.
I didn't have to look it up to know that it is ridiculous to think our president would say that, that is the difference between the real world and believing an opinion news anchor who gets paid to try and persuade you one way or another. Then they pick on each other for spreading falsehoods, I don't have time for that BS.
C'mon man, think.
This happens just as much on Fox News and other media outlets you mentioned, just on the other spectrum. When a senator, or someone in high office is claimed to say something ridiculous, it is usually not true, or completely taken out of context.
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@TheRealNihilist
I'm relating this with what happened to me. I am not arguing anything.... I am just saying that some people don't want the statues to be removed because they think it will diminish the importance of, and the interest in,.... history. I agree with that, you don't have to. But that does not make either of us an evil person.
So some of the people that were there protesting the removal of a stature were not at all white supremacists, neo nazi, or racist, as many people believe because of the media. Trump was referring to these people when he said, "there are fine people on both sides."
Unfortunately, he is saying things under the assumption that his constituents are smarter than they are. You have to be pretty dense to believe that Trump said White supremacists are fine people. But, many do because they have been trained to trust the falsehoods of the media.
Thanks for understanding where I am coming from Snoopy
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@TheRealNihilist
I didn't say statues are the best source of information, I said they work as a catalyst gaining interest in history. You don't just bring a picture to a kid and hope he reads the book.
I wasn't in Richmond, where the statues were, to explore history, I was visiting a relative when I saw the statue from the car and I asked questions. You don't understand how one leads to the other, and sometimes unexpectedly.
Just like the renaming of roads, highways and schools. Kids are interested in knowing who these people are, and it comes up in normal conversation instead of a school. It's just like reading a required book in school, you just don't have as much interest if it is required, even though it is probably a good book.
Movies are not a good historical depiction because they are have become saturated with political correctness, and always have some sort of agenda instead of facts. Documentaries are better, but still tend to focus on some of the wrong things.
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@TheRealNihilist
The statues work as a catalyst to read the history books. When someone sees the statues and hear's a bit of the story behind them, it interests them and they want to know more about it, they will gain interest in reading the history books. When I was a kid, I did exactly that when I saw the statues, I asked questions like... Who is that person on the horse? My parents would answer and I would have more knowledge, then I would want to read about what happened.
That will no longer happen. If you get rid of the statues, you might as well burn the books too, because that is all it is, trying to erase history and believing that all of the South were evil people getting what they deserved, and forgetting that the north was just as bad in the way they treated blacks, even worse in some cases..
You might as well remove every statue that was built in homage to slave owners, which is most of them.
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@disgusted
He was not referring to them, he was referring to the people that were there to protest erasing history by removing the statues. Don't you know what they all were really there for? Why they gathered in the first place? The city was tearing down historic statues.
I'm not a white supremacist and I didn't want the statues taken down. It is a part of history and you cannot erase it. There were people in the South that were fine people, they just had to fight because people were fighting them, killing brothers, and sisters and parents.. This is why the statues should not be brought down so people will understand what happened in the past....which you clearly do not... they also stand as an acknowledgement of what the country has overcome.
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@ProudDebater
And the law agrees with you. So, what is your point?
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@Snoopy
This article lost all credibility when the author said that Trump referred to White Nationalist as very fine people. That is just a lie. Trump was referring to the people that protested the removal of statues to preserve history, he was not referring to the White supremacy gathering, anyone with a brain that functions correctly knows this.
I heard someone at my work earlier this week spreading around that Trump said he was cutting Aid to 3 Mexican Countries, who heard this from someone else. Trump did not say this, it was an bad error on Fox News part (an unbelievable bad error, sheer stupidity, I hope someone got fired). A banner they had scrolling the screen during Fox and Friends. This got misconstrued into people thinking Trump actually said it, then people not bothering to actually look it up, and spreading it around more.
This is the reason a lot of people don't like Trump, because ignorant people hear things like the above and spread it around to other ignorant people, and no one who knows the truth argues because it is just not worth it, and they don't want to be called a bigot for being a Trump supporter because he thinks White supremacists are "very fine people".
The news needs to stop feeding the ignorant, but they have an agenda, and it seems to work. And they think Trump supporters are uneducated.... smdh.
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@Greyparrot
People don't seem to care about the constitution unless it favors their beliefs. Dems do this all the time.
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@Greyparrot
So you are saying, only under the hands of Tyranny can we almost get things done?
A lot of people saying Trump is tyrannical. I don't agree, he is using a lot of what congress put in place during past administrations against them.
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@n8nrgmi
I do not doubt that. It is the media.... all with the same agenda. They talk about the ramifications, which is news worthy. If they say it is a good idea, then they have nothing to talk about.
People who know they are going to be hurt by this are speaking out, asking for help, and trying to stop it. That is what the news reports.
I never said it wouldn't hurt the economy. I said it is one way to stop the caravans, which is a huge problem and never ending unless something like this is done, or the threat is made.
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@n8nrgmi
Have you found anyone pointing out how more devastating it would be for Mexico? You know trade goes both ways. They don't want it to happen more than we don't want it to. This is also a threat, part of negotiation practice, which many do not understand, it hasn't happened yet, but if it does, the negatives and positives have been weighed.
The worst thing they you come up with is the car industry? I'm sure there will be more industries hurt than just that one, and worse, but that is not the economy as a whole. As I said, it will be a short term problem.... but not devastating. The experts advising Trump are much more educated than the ones writing these articles, and the ones hand picked to be interviewed and give there 2 cents on the matter. They will always go against Trump because they do not like him. Have you not realized this yet?
There is no Crisis at the Border? I think Dems have finally agreed that there is because they are not really arguing it anymore, only they don't apologize for trying to make Trump look like a fool 24-7 in the past months on this topic, ultimately making themselves look like fools.... The whole thing with Acosta and his being banned as a whitehouse correspondent was arguing over the "non crisis at the border." And you still take these people seriously?
The educated people you are talking about think too much into things, do a lot of reading, and a lot of research that really is not needed if you just look at the whole picture, what has been happening for years, and what needs to happen in order to correct the issues at hand. The same issues that have been going on for decades that need to be corrected.
If you notice, the news is now all speculation.... it is not news... it is all what if scenarios, and trying to rationalize things in a negative way, as well as pick apart word after word after word thinking there is some underlying issue, then reporting the speculated conclusion as if it were news.
They should call CNN and other networks Doomsday reporting. You think Trump used fear mongering for his campaign? I think the networks use fear mongering and no one notices. One question... Are you scared? If you are, then the media succeeded in their mission.
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@Greyparrot
Good analogy. Trump is not off his rocker, it takes someone with critical thinking skills, and cognitive reasoning to understand why. Many just blindly accept the media explanation and short term consequences of doing such an off the rocker thing, without completely thinking things through.
I lost 30 grand on my 401 K in a month due to the trade war with China, bound to lose more, but it will come back, and even if it doesn't, it was necessary, and I don't blame Trump... He does the right thing most of the time, this one included.
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@Greyparrot
I don't think any of the AOC crowd were ever punished for anything that they did when they were children. Probably rewarded... Sent to their rooms where they could sit and watch TV, play video games, and talk to friends on their cell phones. Everything they ever wanted was in their room, so that does not count as a punishment anymore.
I remember when there was nothing to do in my room, but sit there and think about my actions, which is what was meant by the punishment. It's different now, something specific has to be taken away, but there is always something else to do to take it's place.
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It will hurt a lot of people temporarily, but the outcome would be better for the future. It will hurt Mexico, more. They need to stop the caravans from crossing their country to get to us with no resistance. It will not last long. Once they see what the ramifications are, they will start enforcing their own border crossing laws.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
They can charge him for the hoax mail he sent, with the Tylenol, hopefully give him the maximum sentence in lieu of all the charges dropped in the State case.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Wholeheartedly agree!
This should also be a hate crime. People who perpetrate hoaxes to get some sort of hate reaction from the community, the media, the country, and the world should be charged with hate crimes themselves. It is basically the same thing, I see no difference, only it might be worse because they are trying to frame someone that does not really exist, which always causes a waste of investigative time.
Many of these things are hoaxes, in fact, a lot of the ones that get national attention, are indeed, hoaxes.
It turns my stomach to know that people are so sick in the head that they have to combat the frustration they have buried in their head by concocting false accusations. These people need help more than the people that actually commit hate crimes. Jussie is no exception to this, IMO.
I think the mindset of people in the justice system, and the left leaning hierarchy is that "his intentions were good" because it is against the racist Trump Administration and supporters. Let's get involved and give him a pass.
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This is a heinous crime. For something planned out like this, so nefarious, so manipulative, so diabolical in every way shape and form, there should be no forgiveness for a first offense. It's like murdering someone, or robbing a bank, and saying, well it's only the first offense, he won't do it again. This is a disgrace, and I think he did it more for political reasons than his career, he is an SJW.... He was disgusted with Trump and wanted to get more of the country to hate Trump and his followers. The money and a boost in career status thing was just a plus he was hoping capitalize on as well, but not the main motive.
Left or right, we all agree that people should not be harassed or mistreated because of their race or sexual orientation. We all have the same goals, just different paths acquiring them. The left wants everyone to be treated the same, yet to get there, treat people differently (through reparations, tax cuts, laws, minority status and loopholes), which is one of the most hypocritical things I have ever heard. The right wants everyone to be treated the same, based on individualism.
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