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@Bones
Not ignoring you but I g2g! I feel like this is the third time I left you hanging but I only come on here sporadically. I'll be on later unless I get distracted :)
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@Greyparrot
Why make that comment when you know I'm just going to complete the sentence?
“I felt that I could no longer live my life as a lie, living as a boy instead of the girl I knew I could become. I was losing hope in the world and could not see my way out of the wrong body so I decided it was time for my life to end as a whole. I would like to be remembered as a transgender pansexual teenage girl named Hope."
Sounds like transitioning didn't help them but it didn't hurt them (weird that she wanted to come out as trans only after moving to SOUTH CAROLINA of all places). They never expressed regret in transitioning and "living the lie" was continuing to present as male. Don't be daft.
Also note that in another post you said government shouldn't be making these decisions - parents should. Well this person's parents supported them transitioning and I guess you have a problem with that too. So maybe just say that you don't think someone's wishes should be carried out rather than suggesting you only oppose government approving them.
I don't know why people are trying to pretend that their vitriol or rejection of trans people is out of care and concern for their well being. It's really not. If it were then I would assume there was some attempt at understanding on their part. Some kind of open minded dialog or deep dive for information you're unfamiliar with (dare I say disagree with) that doesn't involve calling them mentally ill and reiterating how different and dysfunctional they are right off the bat. Call me crazy.
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Does anyone find it concerning that I made a thread about liberty > safety, and coal responded to multiple people with multiple posts to [basically] call me a stupid, humorless, tone-deaf, snide, arrogant, ignorant, conceited, vapid, incoherent, sad, pathetic and sanctimonious cunt completely unprovoked because... get this... he thinks I'm trying to be funny and doesn't find me funny? Guys that's not normal.
Most adults I know have a little more self-control than that but I guess he's going through it. He called me Samantha Bee like four times last night and presumably thought it was clever each time, so I'm starting to think there's something wrong. Something's off. It's not normal to lash out like a hateful psychopath with a stretched out, infected, gaping cavern of an asshole just because you think someone is making an unfunny joke (I wasn't trying to be funny). That's not nice. And very weird behavior might I add.
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@coal
Now there's the Dani I've been waiting for!
OH I KNOW YOU HAVE
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@coal
It is almost as if Dani thinks I wrote this thread for the sole purpose of triggering her
No you illiterate twat you made this thread to pander to people that already agree with you for the sole purpose of 'likes' online like a desperate tween.
When I disagreed, you predictably lashed out at me like a wounded animal. Lord knows you're not attracted to me but I still have you wrapped around my finger and I always will. The second I give you attention you'll pounce. Believe me.
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@thett3
There is nothing convoluted or complicated about the concept of sex/gender at all. It's just about the most simple concept there is.
The biggest source of confusion is semantics. People disagree that sex and gender are the same thing, and even those who believe they're different often use the words interchangeably.
Consider that 1 in 20,000 men have no Y chromosome. About 40% of men also lose Y chromosomes as they age. Does that mean they are no longer men? If not then being a man seems to be predicated on things other than chromones. And people would say maleness even more so than being a man is about way more than chromosomes, because maleness is about gendered stereotypes and gendered constructs in a society (not just having a dick) that dictate how people perceive males or experience males or interact with males. There's more to add here re: post modernism but eh it's a lot.
Nobody is born into the "wrong" body because for all practical purposes we are our bodies.
For the most part I agree, but I can't claim to have knowledge about someone else's experience. If someone tells me they feel happy, how can I say they're wrong and they don't really feel happy? How can I tell a trans woman they don't really feel like a woman?
So when you say " There should be long, tough conversations with parents, doctors and therapists to ensure a minor (if we're talking about minors only now for some reason) has a good understanding of what they're getting into." that isn't happening! At no point in the process is it suggested that the child's perception of their gender identity is incorrect, or harmful. This stuff is so new that NOBODY, even the doctors, know what these children are getting into!
With all due respect how do you know this? Do you know anyone that's transitioned? I'm willing to bet that you don't know a single person that's trans and you're cherry picking second-hand stories or minority examples that get amplified online by right-wingers excited to say "See I told ya they would regret it!" whenever they come across one. I've never met a trans person that did not have long and hard conversations with their family and doctors. Every single one of them saw a therapist. Even with accepting parents the majority of the world does not approve and trans people have a lot of explaining to do. What is giving you the idea that tough conversations aren't happening with them? Because of celebs posting she/her on twitter? Hollywood isn't real life.
As a matter of fact, being a member of a "marginalized" group is indeed VERY hip at the moment.
Explain to me how it's VERY hip to be trans and how people's lives improve overall as the result of claiming to be trans. Are you gonna say that they get a lot of 'likes' on social media as if we're supposed to discount all the vitriol and death threats they get on social media and in real life? Are you gonna say that experiencing kindness and support by some is supposed to override all the hate and shame from others? 90% of people surveyed have said they have no interest in dating a trans person (I'm confident the real number is much higher). I could go on but I don't want to put words in your mouth and make assumptions. So if you don't mind please tell me why it's great to be trans. Explain it to me like I'm 5.
If trans identification WASN'T often the result of social contagion but an organic result of people being more accepting, we would see more adult people coming out as trans, we wouldn't see it cluster in friend groups nor would the increase be concentrated among teenage girls with other mental health issues, the kind who may have cut themselves in past times. 2% of a sexually dimorphic species aren't born in the "wrong" body. What's happening is pretty obvious
I disagree with the first part. Let me ask you this: who would you assume to be more likely of accepting someone coming out as trans - my friends or Greyparrot's friends? Why?
I've often joked about how amusing it is that everyone is gay these days. I don't think more people are gay now than in the past per se. I think people are just more open to admitting it and more open experimenting. It would be nonsensical to think that a heteronormative and religious culture that's condemned homosexuality for centuries has played no role in people's willingness to entertain or acknowledge being gay. Or trans.
I agree with you that 2% of people are likely not born in the wrong body. That's why I said we need to stop equating sex and gender so that people stop mutilating themselves solely because they feel more masculine or more feminine than they're supposed to based on their genitals.
But again it's also hard for me to tell someone they're wrong when I have positively no idea what they're experiencing. It would be likes someone telling me that I'm not gay (which I get told all the time because I'm feminine). People think because I wear a dress I couldn't really like like fucking women. I'm like uh... I ASSURE YOU THAT I DO. So the idea of arguing with someone about how they feel seems fruitless to me. I can't take it seriously when someone presumes to know more about what's in my head, heart or loins than I do so it feels hypocritical to do that to others in turn just because I don't understand them the way others don't understand me.
I'm absolutely flabbergasted that your response to giving strong hormones and irreversible surgical procedures to minors when by your own admission we have no research on the long term effects is that we should go ahead and do it anyway.
What on earth gives you the impression that I would oppose something just because it's new? By that logic we would have no advancement in medicine, science or culture. Mr. Wright are you really going to defy gravity with that airplane? Ms. Bridges are you really going to be the first black girl in an all white school when we don't know the consequences of integration? Mr. Jenner do you really think we should inject ourselves with smallpox to get rid of smallpox with this so-called "vaccine?"
I don't accept that because there is little research on something that it should never be tested or researched going forward. That is the antithesis of what I believe. If someone is desperate enough to volunteer to be a pioneer with a risky surgery they believe could save or significantly improve the quality of their life, that's their prerogative after consulting about potential risks. If they're wrong they will have to live with their decision just like everybody else on this planet that regrets an irreversible decision.
Most European countries are moving away from "gender affirming" care for minors because the outcomes were not good at all, the depression and anxiety that caused the issues in the first place didn't go away with transition which caused lasting and often unwanted changes
Interesting. I'd like to read about these outcomes - can you share?
Those studies are just surveys asking people, usually soon after they've transitioned, how they feel. It's extremely weak evidence like anything self reported is.
There is at least one survey with 28,000 trans people that checks in with them every few years. The one I'm thinking of has been going on for over a decade though I'm sure there are others. But you're shifting goal posts here in a really obvious way. Self-reported feelings are the ONLY way you can know someone's feelings (maybe until we get further along with brain mapping). Think about how ridiculous what you're saying is: that we can't tell people are really satisfied because we can't trust them, yet apparently we can trust them when they say they're NOT satisfied. That's a little convenient don't you think?
You know what there aren't studies on? People who desist from identifying as trans. How much you want to bet they're very happy that they didn't get irreversible surgeries or destroy their hormone profile because they had a period of confusion?
Once again if there are no studies about these people then how are you making objective claims about them? I actually know someone that identified as trans but doesn't anymore. She never expressed interest in transition to me - she was already pretty butch. I have so many questions for her and others for sure. But the fact that she never went through with a transition only bolsters my point that those who do go through with such a life altering process are probably as sure as they can be barring some type of psychological disorder. I acknowledge that a lot of people who claim to be trans are just deeply confused. But those people don't invalidate all the rest.
Opposing doing this to children is the most open and shut thing I've ever seen
I don't think it's open and shut but I don't see the problem with age restrictions.
If you don't think a penis should be a "gendered" organ than you should support discouraging people from removing it to try to conform to some imagined and unreachable ideal.
I AGREE! THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING.
I do recognize the obvious correlations between penises and masculinity. I'm not saying penises shouldn't be gendered or whatever. I'm saying you don't need to have a penis to present yourself as "male" to the world. How do males present to the world as male? Not by exposing their penises to everyone but generally by their name, their physical appearance (short hair, baggier clothes), by dating women, by exhibiting certain traits, etc. If one feels more comfortable doing those things they should do it without feeling the need to alter their body. I've been saying that over and over. I also don't mind calling them "male" based on them behaving or presenting as society says MALES do.
I trust people and value their freedom more than you do. We already know that you're fine with and would even prefer a society + government that overrides people's desires for the greater good (or the greater good according to your values) but I don't.
I recognize your concerns about irreparable changes, especially with kids, but I think we can mitigate that to some degree. At the end of the day I think it is disgusting and self-righteous to get on a moral high horse about something you admit we know very little about and talk about how awful it is. Just as society realized we were dead wrong about things in the past including homosexuality and many others, it's possible and even probable this will be just another thing on the long list of things we have become more aware of and comfortable with over time. At the end of the day it really doesn't affect your life in any way how other people identify or change their bodies, and from the bottom of my heart I don't believe for one second that most conservatives "really care" about trans people. You don't really care about them. You feel sorry for them. There's a difference. There's no need to mask your disapproval or rejection of them as some kind of moral virtue of concern.
The big differences are that high heels and makeup are completely reversible and aren't objectively harmful like cutting a permanent wound into your body is
And again I would say if that "wound" makes someone not want to kill themselves or live a life of despair, with the potential to make a huge positive difference in their life as the overwhelming majority of transitioned people claim it does - then I'll have to support it based on everything I know so far. If there is credible evidence that it does more harm than good then my position would shift accordingly. In that case I would probably take a similar position as I have with heroin: I recognize it's harmful and would strongly advise against using it, but I still think it should be legal. Prolly not for kids.
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@coal
You spent time drafting a long post on a debate site where you know 99% of the people already agree with you. In other words you wrote a meaningless dissertation solely for everyone's approval. Now did you do this because you're an unlikable loser with nothing better to do than pander for 'likes' on an obscure social site frequented by a dozen college students? Perhaps. But the right answer is usually what's most obvious, and what's obvious is that you're a 30-something year old faggot whose spent the last 2 decades of your life desperately looking for validation from strangers online. Believe me when I say I've never seen someone thirster and more starved for attention in my entire life.
Ask yourself why you'd even bother to reply to my post if you lack the capacity or interest to respond like an adult. If you're that desperate for engagement but unable to be respectful, why don't you just go create another AMA where you can pathetically beg people to give a shit about you and try to convince yourself that they really care about what you have to say? I'm sure if you ask enough times someone will oblige you and let you pontificate so you can feel like the omniscient super expert you try so hard to convince everyone you are. I mean it's possible your parents never cared about what you had to say and I'm sorry if that's what you're compensating for as an adult, but please stop trying to antagonize me like a 13 year old girl. Like enough with the cyberbullying Hannah Montana. Why are you going out of your way telling randos that I'm dumb and not to talk to me? Come on dude that's so embarrassing for you. You're a grown man. Mind ya business. Relax. Go take a popper and asphyxiate yourself. I promise you that nobody thinks you're cool for behaving this way.
Note all I did was explain where I both agree and disagree with what you said (no snark, no sarcasm, no rudeness) and yet you lashed out at me like I'm the last guy that gave you poop dick. Bruh WHO HURT YOU??!! The OP was dumb as hell but I didn't feel the need to call you names or insult you despite such low hanging fruit. I sincerely think it's about time you talk with a therapist about why you're so triggered by me. It's wild that I still have so much power over you. I don't even have to acknowledge that you exist - just me having a perfectly nice dialog with other people bothers you to the point you have to chime in and insert yourself in order to feel included and relevant lol. It's sad. We both know I'll hold this power over you forever though and I fucking love that.
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@Shila
That is not what Foucault is saying. Foucault is talking about sexuality and not gender.
Nothing in that paragraph you posted (twice) disproves what I said about postmodernists believing gender is a social construct. Although a broad category with conflict (like feminism) post modernism is generally about the rejection of objective and universal explanations of how society and culture operate. They do not consider biological differences between men and women to be the same as gender differences between males and females. But I don't feel the need to explain this further when you can just Google it. It has very little to do with anything else I said.
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@Greyparrot
Just the dead ones? You really must be fun at parties!
I really am! But again I was laughing at the idea that we should discount studies and instead make declarations with no data based on cherry picked generalizations instead. Then I laughed at the assertion dead people can't tell us how they feel but they can tell us they regret transitioning. Now I'm laughing at the smug presentation of a link that does not at all say what you thought it said. The teen did not regret transitioning and never expressed that in their note. Thenote literally said the exact opposite.
So again I was not laughing at trans people. I was not laughing at dead people. I was laughing at you.
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@Greyparrot
Maybe read the suicide notes?
That's a great idea. Let's read it together: “I felt that I could no longer live my life as a lie, living as a boy instead of the girl I knew I could become. I was losing hope in the world and could not see my way out of the wrong body so I decided it was time for my life to end as a whole. I would like to be remembered as a transgender pansexual teenage girl named Hope."
Her mother adds: "Love your son or daughter for who they are expressing, and who they are. Open your heart wider than you thought you were going to have to. Open it wider and do not pass judgment. Let them lead the journey.”
I'm sorry what was your point with posting that note again?
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But you're less funny than Amy Schumer. Actually, you're less funny even than Samantha Bee.
Does anyone have some ice for this incredibly SICK BURN?!?!!?!
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No he was definitely talking about how he fucked a 12 year old girl. I don't need any more proof.
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@Greyparrot
Did the dead people tell you they regret their decision? What else did they say? Is there a Heaven?
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@RationalMadman
I'm not laughing at trans people. I'm laughing at the idea of saying research "doesn't count" because it doesn't align with what you want it to say.
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@Greyparrot
So you can't poll dead people to ask them how they feel and yet you know precisely why they killed themselves LOL that's fascinating.
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She was 12, I was 30. I don't need any context. There's no way he was being hyperbolic about some woman he knows for a long time who "helped him get a lot done" as he said right afterward. Those six words are undeniable proof that he's a rapist and was for sure talking about fucking a child.
Man I can't believe he would just tell on himself like that! And how interesting he recognized the girl even though he has long-term dementia. Honestly I don't believe anything Joe Biden says unless he says "she was 12, I was 30" in which case I know exactly what he meant. I think we all do.
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@RationalMadman
So when you can't find any data to support a claim because all research that has been done says the exact opposite of said claim, you can just say the results of the research are unreliable because "nobody will tell the truth" LOL that's great. I'll have to try that fallacy some time. It's like shifting goal posts on steroids. Very cool.
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@Shila
That is not what Foucault is saying.
Indeed Foucault and other post modernists believe that gender is a social construct.
He would probably hate the idea of people getting surgery just because they perceive their unhappiness with gender as a result of having the wrong body. But he would also disagree with conservatives that gender is immutable and determined by our sex organs.
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@Greyparrot
It's really hard to reverse a bottom surgery.
Fortunately 98% of people have no interest in reversing their surgery.
And the 2% that do will have to live with their decisions just like everybody else who regrets an irreversible decision in life.
The trans outgroup is on a pedestal. The pinnacle in the oppression Olympics.
Yep they're probably the most marginalized, most discriminated against and most hated group of non-pedophiles out there. Great point.
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@thett3
Should 14 year old be allowed to undergo breast augmentation surgery?
With therapy consultations and parental consent maybe. Teens permanently altar their body with tattoos and all kinds of plastic surgery.
What age should children be allowed to purchase alcohol? Join the military? Purchase a firearm? Adopt a child?
I don't disagree that age regulations can be a good idea. The subject didn't imply this thread was only about kids though.
My problem is with children who were very clearly groomed and manipulated into doing irreversible harm to their body.
I have a huge problem with children being groomed into organized religion but I have no say in how other people parent. I'm not trying to be facetious with this comment either. The brainwashing people instill in their kids from birth is horrifying. Have you ever seen Jesus Camp? The only thing creepier than watching a cult pray or speak in tongues is watching little kids do it.
The “mind your own business” line of thought ends when it comes to children.
It's very hard to legally override parents and it should be.
Again, the “so what” is that we are talking about literal children who are making a mistake
Says YOU.
I care about vulnerable people. I feel really bad for someone who destroys their body before they’re even in their 20s.
I care about vulnerable people too! I don't want anyone to "destroy" their body but I also don't think outsiders should be able to dictate what anyone does with their body. I feel bad for those who don't have the option to transition in accordance with their deepest desires (especially adults). And something tells me if people really "cared" about trans folk it would translate to some behavior other than standing in legal and social opposition to each and every thing they stand for. I never see conservatives sticking up for those suffering or being tormented and bullied. Instead they mock trans people relentlessly and accuse them of being mentally ill groomers who deserve to be shamed and suppressed. How kind! Thanks for caring!
Do you honestly believe that 2% of a sexually dimorphic species are people born in the “wrong” body? Because that’s the current percentage of youth that identify as transgender.
I'm not sure but I doubt it. I think gender is such a convoluted and complicated social construct that there is bound to be confusion. There are probably a lot of people who are just more masculine and more feminine now believing they are "born in the wrong body" as opposed to accepting that they're just different from the norm. A lot of gay people probably fall into this.
That’s why we shouldn’t encourage unhealthy fixations, especially in children.
People said this about homosexuality for the longest time (and still do) which is one reason I find it to be such a shitty argument. Ignorance is not a virtue. Just because something is completely foreign to you and you have never experienced it or can't understand it or don't like it doesn't mean other people's experience of it is unhealthy or invalid.
What especially grinds my gears about it is the big stigma about telling the truth, which is that they will never be the gender they wish to be and will never pass.
Trans people are WELL AWARE they're not the gender they wish to be, so why would you feel the need to reiterate that to them -- because you care about them so much? I have a few trans friends and most pass, some don't. But the biggest factor is that the individual feels better presenting themselves to the world a certain way whether they pass or not. I mean this is like saying a woman shouldn't wear make-up because she doesn't pass for pretty anyway. Maybe the world still sees her as unattractive but SHE the make-up wearer feels better about herself.
There isn’t really much of any evidence on post transition outcomes for children since this began in earnest very very recently. Like the past five years.
So then how can you sit here and talk about the long-term damage and massive regret if you say there's no research?
There actually is research but I acknowledge it's fairly new. All research is new until it's not. There are studies that have looked at thousands of trans people and the overwhelming majority of those that transition have no regrets and live happier, healthier lives after transitioning. Have you found research that says otherwise?
These drugs and surgeries have long term irreversible effects. Where is the harm in discouraging minors from transitioning before they can make decisions? Don’t you remember what it was like to be a teen?
Yes! I was a sexually confused closet case with depression! Once I left Catholic school and my Catholic family to go to college where my sexuality was embraced and not condemned, I became happier and healthier than ever before. Crazy, right?
I don't think there is harm in discouraging a kid from transitioning but there could be harm in preventing it depending on the person. There should be long, tough conversations with parents, doctors and therapists to ensure a minor (if we're talking about minors only now for some reason) has a good understanding of what they're getting into. It obviously should not be taken lightly. But I truly don't believe a kid is going to be manipulated or persuaded into transitioning unless it's something they REALLY think is necessary for their well-being. Being trans is not cool. Being trans is not hip. Trans people struggle to find partners (and peers and friends and jobs). They deal with discrimination all the time.
Unless humanity and teenagers have done a sociological 180 I'm not aware of, kids are not going to be clamoring to desperately try and join an Outgroup that is notoriously rejected, bullied and shamed. So if someone tells me they're trans I'm not going to presume it's because the libtards put a trans character on TV.
But it’s true that I have a bias because I have a philosophical objection to the entire idea. If a male patient is fixated on being a woman, has his healthy penis removed and replaced with what will be a festering wound the rest of his life, I don’t think that’s a positive outcome just because he reports that he’s glad it happened. Not any more than I would think it’s a positive outcome that someone who wanted their healthy legs removed got their wish. In both cases I view their decision making capacity to be stunted by mental illness.
I'm glad you recognize your bias. We all have bias. The fact that I'm gay which straight people can't understand or experience makes it easier for me to accept that there could be other elements of gender or sexuality that is foreign to me but equally valid.
I think the difference between the penis and leg example is that the penis is affiliated with gender whereas your leg is not. If someone wanted to chop off their penis to align more with societal expectations of "femaleness," that makes sense to me though it's really sad. This is one reason people should stop putting so much emphasis on sexual organs when it comes to gender. Gender is a social construct. You don't need to chop your dick off to dress or behave a certain way. But let's not pretend that conservatives are fine with men walking around in makeup and heels. The reality is ya'll are going to ridicule and condemn people for being different no matter what. That's why if I were trans I couldn't find a fuck to give about someone else's opinion if they paid me. All of this nonsense about "concern for the well being" of trans people is such horse shit. It's not caring, it's controlling.
Not accusing you of anything and I’m not about to get on a social justice high horse but how is that not insanely sexist to say that a part of a woman’s body is so much a sexual object that who cares if it’s damaged or destroyed in the pursuit of looks
There are a few fallacies at play here. I never said breasts were a sexual object. I said I don't care if someone gets a mastectomy or "destroys" their breasts because the people doing so have no desire or expectation to breast feed. Your desire for a someone to use their breasts to feed babies (or the evolutionary function of breasts) should have no bearing on what someone chooses to do with their own bodies.
I was also flippant about getting new implants (in the case someone did have regrets) to highlight that any plastic surgery is preferable to suicide and debilitating depression. So if the choice is between having breasts added/removed or killing myself, then yes "who cares" about top surgery if the alternative is death.
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@coal
And why is that?
Because you made a post pandering to 99% of users on the site that you already know oppose transitioning, and their opposition is rooted in a belief that gender is fixed in biology. But the central argument made by Foucault and post modernists is that things like race and gender are not biologically determined. They believe those things are social constructs. The people you want to like your post don't believe that.
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My family in Tampa has evacuated which I think is fine. If they choose to live in fear of wind and rain, that's their prerogative. However I'm outraged that Florida politicians have issued evacuation ORDERS. Police officers are now going door to door in Pinellas County to make sure that people have left the area. This is the gestapo 2.0 and everyone should be terrified. Since when is the government allowed to tell people what to do like this? This is a brand new phenomenon that just started in the year 2020.
First the police state mandated that everyone stay at home. Now they're demanding that everyone leave! Florida Senator Rick Scott said, "If you're told to evacuate, evacuate now. Not tomorrow. Evacuate right now." Excuse me Mr. Scott but I'm pretty sure Florida values people's freedom so he can kindly shut the fuck up and mind his own business.
The fear mongering by politicians and the media has been a joke. All week long Hurricane Ian has been dominating the national news - proof the media is just trying to scare as many people as possible even if they're not in any alleged danger. They'll literally say anything for views.
Not to mention stores across Florida have been completely wiped out. There are shortages and price gouging. Profits are soaring. I mean if you can't see this so called "hurricane" is completely made up to enrich business owners then I don't know what to tell you.
I heard another Florida politician on the news tell people to keep checking for updates from scientists and government officials. He actually said that! He really believes people are going to follow the instructions of the biggest groups of liars on the planet.
Scientists can't be trusted and least of all meteorologists. The entire field is bought by the climate change industry looking to profit off the alleged global warming. It's well documented that meteorologists get it wrong a good amount of the time, so why is anyone listening to them?
This tyranny with forced closures is not only hurting small businesses, but KIDS ARE BEING KEPT OUT OF SCHOOL. We all know that US schools are top notch beacons of education, but my cousin has to have class on Zoom today. This is an absolute travesty. Is this what Florida voters cast their ballot for in the last election? Kids being kept home?
All of this follows a playbook as old as time and Ron DeSantis is complicit. Mark my words if the "hurricane" comes he will be going to the feds with his hands out looking for relief money. Joe Biden who is singlehandedly responsible for inflation better not cozy up to Ron and expect anyone to give Florida a penny for this little sun shower that's being blown way out of proportion. I know that some people in FL might be at risk, but honestly if people are so worried about hurricanes they should learn how to swim, buy a boat or leave the area; not close schools, keep people away from their homes and jobs or add to our national debt. What a disgrace.
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@thett3
Instead what’s actually happening is that the individual is destroying their body, often sterilizing themselves and ensuring they’ll never have children or causing lasting damage such as unwanted body hair or permanently changed voices.
You're forgetting that just because child bearing (or sustaining the human population in perpetuity) is important thing to you, it's not to many people, especially trans people born female.
I would also point out that every surgical procedure comes with risks. We've all heard the horror stories of plastic surgery gone wrong, yet people don't spend so much time and energy (especially in politics or the media) looking to shame or persuade people not to get nose jobs or butt lifts. Making your titties bigger is perfectly fine if not encouraged, but chopping your titties off is something that is everyone's business and mission to rail against apparently.
In extreme cases surgical mutilation occurs at an age where an individual is not allowed to buy a beer, own a gun, have sex, or even drive a car.
That's the case for a lot of procedures, but most of these regulations (except for sexual age of consent) are in place to protect society and not the individual.
Very few if any actually manage to pass,
What's it to ya?
In extreme cases, the desire to change sex consumes the entire personality and these people cease to exist for any reason other than to be transsexual.
This applies to everyone and everything. Look at the people with Trump avatars, Trump clothes, Trump flags, Trump bumper stickers, Trump manicures, eating Trump cheeseburgers at Trump themed fast food joints, etc. A lot of things consume people's entire personality: their hobbies, sports, politics, their job... so what?
Many of those who detransition discover with horror that many of the changes to their bodies are permanent. De transition forums are chalk full of girls crying their eyes out over their permanently deep voices, their anger that they’ll never be pretty again, the tragic realization that they will never be able to have children…and their cries fall on deaf ears except to supposedly hateful people like me.
It's always so weird to me that people bring this up as if there are not transition forums chock full of people crying tears of joy and talking about how transitioning was the best thing that's ever happened to them, cured their depression, made them feel whole, made them feel seen, made them feel validated and changed their lives for the better. Apparently we're supposed to pretend those people don't exist even though they account for the overwhelming majority. "Hey did you hear about the 2% of people with regrets?!" doesn't seem like a great talking point, and yet it's brought up by anti trans people constantly despite being such a bad point.
Even if you found a study that said 15% of people regret transitioning it would still be a really weak point to bring up in opposition. If I was suffering from gender dysphoria and subsequently severe depression to the point of being a high suicide risk, and I knew 85% of people that transitioned had their lives significantly improve, I would take that chance and you would be an idiot not to. Hmm death or mastectomy death or mastectomy... killing myself or getting new implants... hmm decisions decisions...
Uh, news flash, breasts are organs not sex objects. Sure you can get fake tits but you’ll never be able to use them for their actual purpose of nursing an infant and your body (a holistic system) will forever be missing a piece
Wow are you gonna join the #FreeTheNipple and pro breast feeding in public campaigns because boobs are solely for functional use? I dare you to tell your future daughter that it's okay for her to walk around topless as a teenage girl because tits are just for food lol. I kid. But to me this is just as useless as saying that it's pointless to dye your hair because the only purpose of hair is to insulate the body and conserve heat. It may be true from an evolutionary standpoint, but it is a fact that how people physically present themselves to the world conveys a lot socially and impacts how the world treats them + their own self-esteem.
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@coal
I'm surprised you would present Foucault in a positive light.
I agree that just because some guys wear heels and some girls want to shave their head and strap it on every night doesn't necessarily mean they were "born into the wrong body." Society has been quick to embrace gender non-conformation as a trans identity as opposed to someone just being more masculine or more feminine.
But I don't agree with the overarching premise that psychiatry is just as evil today as it was in the past. Calling for gay men to have their dicks removed was wrong in part because gay men WANTED to keep their penises. Trans people with penises do not want them, so removing them according to their wishes is not anywhere near as evil or inappropriate.
Are you suggesting that people's personal freedom and bodily autonomy should be totally ignored and discontinued, or just persuaded against and shamed like homosexuality?
To say that "nothing has actually changed in substance or practice" in psychiatry or psychology over the last few decades is obviously not true. Some things that have changed in the field include but are not limited to gay men no longer being castrated and given hetero testes in place of their gay testes; no more lobotomies for gay people; no more electroconvulsive therapy for gay people; no more shock therapy for gay people; no more aversion therapy for gay people; no more support for reparative therapies or conversion therapy for gay people (plus it's been banned in some states), etc.
You wrote:
- Instead of surgically castrating them for homosexuality, psychiatrists surgically castrate them to begin their "gender reassignment."
Psychiatrists don't perform surgery, but what's your point here - that castration should be barred all-together? (Not foreskin though amirite cuz it's ugly)
- Instead of "treating" the purported "deviancy" of homosexualuty (DSM-II), now the field of psychiatry "affirms" the purported "gender" of supposed "transexuals" (DSM-5).
So should people's gender or sexual identity not be affirmed?
- Instead of "chemically castrating" stereotypically effeminate, often prepubescent or barely pubescent boys with high dose regimens of Depo Provera (or other such drugs) because of their "homosexuality" (DSM-II); the field of psychiatry purports to "transition" or "block the puberty of" those exact same stereotypically effeminate, often prepubescent or barely pubescent boys, with those exact same high dose regimens of Depo Provera (or other such drugs) because of their "gender dysphoria" (DSM-5).
No it's not "those exact same pubescent boys" that are having their dicks cut off. Only people who identify as trans and seek out those procedures or hormones have their bodies altered, and that's only after multiple consultations with doctors and therapists.
Now, the societal conditions favor inducing children to opt-in to the "in group" that is "trans." Without any regard for the actual consequences at all.
This is fear mongering BS. Trans people are still widely condemned and mocked by the majority of the population. They are still the subject of ridicule by pundits looking to get people riled up over things that have no bearing on their lives. They are still discriminated against. Consider that 90% of cis people have no interest in dating trans people. It's not "cool" to be trans. It's not an "in-group." It's the exact opposite with extremely high rates of bullying. Kids and teenagers are not walking around en masse purposefully looking to be part of a sociologically Outcast group that has high rates of depression and suicide. I'm sure some kids might go through a misguided phase the same way some walk around with green spiky hair or Che Guevara tee-shirts only to feel like a jackass years later. But no, young people are not being *encouraged* to cut off their dicks to be accepted by their peers. And finding a few miniscule number of cases where that happens or bad parenting occurs and using it to disparage or condemn an entire group is not intellectually credible or socially responsible.
Why else would such an alarmingly high amount of so-called "trans" people have so many extensive co-morbidities?
Probably for the same reason gay people have so many extensive comorbidities. That's still a thing.
There are legitimate questions and criticisms for the trans movement, but please don't bring up nonsense used against gays and pretend it's applicable to trans people. "Look how mentally fucked up they are! They're coming to hurt THE CHILDREN!" Come on now.
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@oromagi
Oh good! Since the whole thing was recorded it will be easy for Trump to prove they planted evidence!
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the FBI is done for. It will have to be abolished
"Abolish the police!" 😂
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Sooo guilty until proven innocent?
"LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP!" 😂
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I laughed out loud at "Do you even care?" @ Eric. The internet is such a gem.
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Trae Crowder said it best, even stealing my quip "immune to irony and allergic to self-awareness" to describe trumpkins. I forgive him!
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I've been watching Fox News a lot these past few days and their reactions are predictably insane lol.
A law professor pundit they had on yesterday was arguing that this is a horrible precedent because now future presidents may be worried about their legal liability lolol I shit you not that was his actual argument. It's at the 4 minute mark. "Do you think President Biden is going to be worried now about how HE acts and what kind of documents he's gonna keep?" Um... I certainly hope so 😄
Then these dumb asses on The Five today were saying things like "Why weren't his lawyers allowed to see what was going on?" Oh you mean they weren't allowed to preside over the collection of top secret documents they have no security clearance for? Lol I can't take these people. They should just ignore it and pretend the whole thing never happened. These reactions are dumb. Like dumb dumb.
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@3RU7AL
What does ranked choice voting have to do with refusing to accept the results of an election?
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@Athias
I was well into my young adulthood during the 2000 election and I remember well the talking points pedaled by Democrats. One such point would be the accusation that Jeb Bush (George W. Bush's brother) who was the governor of Florida at the time, somehow influenced the court decisions in favor of his brother.
I don't know what's more embarrassing: the fact that you're an adult who believes in mythological creatures or the fact that you actually think this is remotely analogous to anything I talked about in the OP.
Are you old enough to remember Al Gore's concession speech and him presiding over the Senate certification of his own loss?
The entire voting process and judicial system IS a predetermined, rigged sham.
Oh no! Maybe you should go take it up with the tooth fairy.
If the entire voting process is a predetermined and rigged sham, then #1Donald Trump's victory was also a rigged sham so he was not a genuine victor and has no business declaring himself as such in 2016 or otherwise; #2 it makes no sense for Donald and co. to run for office (again) and beg people to show up and vote since they're telling people their votes don't matter. If you accept these logical conclusions then you accept that trumptards are being nonsensical in their positions. I don't understand why you felt the need tp respond with such pathetically desperate and ridiculously far off whataboutism rather than your usual regurgitations about the illegitimacy of government or immorality of voting generally. I never said Democrats don't engage in political nonsense; I said that preemptive accusations of fraud and rejecting evidence or basic facts across the board (or the head-scratching act of someone not rescinding accusations of voter fraud post victory) is more concerning than manipulative rhetoric about how politicians define or spin words like recession.
Again if voting doesn't matter it begs the question of why politicians prostitute themselves for campaign donations, why they gerrymander like crazy and why they try to make it less convenient for certain people to vote. It begs the question of why anyone gets summoned to jury duty among lots of other questions (many of which I outlined in the OP) that your false equivalences don't come anywhere close to answering.
You'd think that arguments from partisan hacks would be easy to discredit, but yet here you are desperately reaching to convince yourself that speculating or pouting over Jeb Bush for a few weeks (conveniently ignoring all of the absolutely legitimate issues with unclear and miscast ballots) is somehow the same as insisting thousands of people at every level of government and beyond conspired to rig an election and/or stage school shootings + terrorist events because of a deep state run by nefarious reptiles and Jews. Tsk tsk.
You're not opening up anyone's eyes, Danielle.
Lol. The title of the thread is called "Open Your Eyes" because I'm mocking conspiracy theorists who use the term. That's why it's in quotes. Obviously.
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@cristo71
The Left denies reality as it attempts to transition completely to green energy. The capacity simply isn’t there yet.
Do you know what the word "transition" means?
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@Athias
Next to your bizarro claims about Lucifer that was hands down the dumbest post you've ever made. Complaining about how politicians "split the vote" between members of their party, or lamenting a court decision about a single state's role in re-counting votes (many of which could not be interpreted or were mis-cast due to the "butterfly ballot") is not remotely analogous to lies about how the entire voting process AND the entire judicial system as a whole is a predetermined, rigged sham.
Lamenting that Bernie ran against Hillary or Liberman against Kerry is not anywhere near the same thing as amplifying and perpetuating bullshit and uncorroborated stories about stolen ballots, rigged voting machines and deep state conspiracies that use fake judges and crisis actors to conspire against candidates and fabricate school shootings so the lizard people feds can steal your guns. I get that you don't like government but it doesn't excuse such bad false equivalences.
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the actual swing voters, what makes THOSE guys click
Just a vibe check.
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@Greyparrot
It says people have lost confidence in the government to work fairly.
Maybe they should take a knee.
That kind of sentiment is far more dangerous to politicians than the people.
It's not dangerous to politicians whose entire campaign strategy was to run on the premise that elections are rigged lol. A fiction writer couldn't come up with how stupid their voters are.
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@Greyparrot
Then hopefully Pelosi's replacement will use the National Guard. Also hopefully the DC cops that let people in are no longer working in the capitol.
Pelosi's future replacement, Adam Schiff, is a weenie but he probably would use the National Guard. I also hope those DC cops were fired but we both know that politicians can't stop sucking police union dick so probably not. They've likely been promoted.
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@Greyparrot
If the administration came out today and said we are in a recession, how do you think the public would react to a massive tax hike on GDP investment?
If your point is that "everyone knows we are in a recession despite what the administration says" then why does it matter if admin say we are in a recession or not?
If the administration came out today and said we are in a recession, how do you think the public would react to a massive tax hike on GDP investment?
I think it's quite obvious how people would react to public investments: liberals will cheer for it and conservatives will bitch about it even though the majority of them hardly pay taxes.
Although conservatives certainly don't mind government subsidies in the industries they work for so who knows.
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Liberals "denying reality" is a really popular talking point of the right. The left supposedly can't define what a woman is, can't define what a recession is, etc. Now of course those are unintelligibly exaggerated strawmen; acknowledging that trans women exist or that high wages coupled with low unemployment should be factored into analyzing the economic state as a whole is not denying reality so much as taking more variables into consideration when pressed to answer something for political gotcha soundbites.
But I think we can all agree that declaring elections to be fraudulent and rigged with no evidence whatsoever is an example of denying reality in a pretty blatant way. However this is something people on the right are apparently comfortable with as a political strategy. For instance, AZ gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake cried foul at the election results in her state. Then she started winning. Once she took the lead and it became clear she would win the race, the insanely pathetic response from her camp was “We out-voted the fraud, we didn’t listen to what the fake news had to say.” When asked to substantiate those claims of fraud, Lake told the press that she didn’t “expect to turn you guys around,” and called them a “lost cause.”
Obviously this position is completely and utterly illogical: the idea that there was clear and massive fraud while at the same time having legitimate results in her favor makes no sense, but Republican voters just don't seem to care. They simply do not give a shit that politicians on their team are so brazenly and pathologically desperate for power that they will go as far as denying reality and straight up spit in the face of voters - just straight up mock their intelligence with bald-faced lies and explanations like this but it's like "haha, whatevs, Dems are just trying to distract from inflation." Hmm.
I bring this up because what happens if this starts becoming a really popular and widespread tactic used not just by Trump and his cult of minions, but all over the world such as we've seen with Jair Bolsonaro recently in Brazil? What if Democrats started doing it? (Pointing out disinformation campaigns to influence elections doesn't count.) I mean I know denying election results is nothing new; it happens in third world countries all the time. What I'm asking is what if U.S. voters continue to legitimize or simply ignore and disregard the nonexistent claims of fraud though? Are we watering down the accusation to the point where it means nothing, and if so couldn't that be dangerous?
With all of the Alex Jones stuff in the news again recently I've been thinking about how this man and others make massive profits in the conspiracy theory business. During the middle of Jones' trial with Sandy Hook parents recently, he couldn't help but go on his show and mock the trial's legitimacy, mock the jury's intelligence and suggest the judge + outcome were all predetermined plants, etc. I thought to myself is this guy friggin insane? Why the hell would he do that knowing it would play so horribly in court? And then I realized DUH, because it's more profitable for him to keep his conspiracy customers brainwashed. Who cares if he has to pay ~50 million in damages? (Hopefully more with additional lawsuits.) He's worth upward of 200 million, and perpetuating these lies without backing down ensures his conspiracy cash cow keeps producing. So there's no incentive for Alex Jones to give any relief to the grieving families he's tortured and lied about; there's no reason for him to back down, admit the truth and stop manipulating people.
This brings me to what I feel like is a really scary state of the world. There has always been government secrecy, there has always been bias in the press, but we seem to be in unprecedented territory as far as the widespread popularity of conspiracies, at least post Information Age. It's not just about fringe topics anymore or things we can't easily substantiate such as the moon landing or some dumb ass story about Bill Gates committing genocide in third world countries. People don't accept anything these days. A school could be shot up with a bunch of kids dying, it could be filmed, there could be witnesses, there could be a physical location where you go and see the damage right in front of your eyes - yet tens of millions of people are simply like "NOPE! FAKE!" because charismatic people like Trump and Alex Jones say so.
Isn't this a bit more problematic than Democrats mincing words about what a "recession" is? Isn't this a bit more consequential than someone insisting they are male when they were born with a vagina? How would it affect anybody else's day or anyone else's life if I were to decide that I want to go by the name Daniel and cut off my tits? Who would I be hurting? Alex Jones is actually hurting people. Election deniers are actively brainwashing people solely and specifically to bolster their own popularity and power.
I wonder if/when this will ever be considered a big deal by conservatives, and if not, why not? If they don't mind lack of evidence for election fraud then why demand more proof of climate change? I feel like having faith in institutions such as the FBI or New York Times, which is biased AF but includes redactions and corrections vs. people in the media like Alex Jones that straight up disregard the facts and with whom there is zero expectation of substantial evidence or accountability is a bit different.
What if heavily armed minority groups or militias refuse to accept the results of the next election? Theoretically everyone who believes the election was actually stolen from Trump should be shooting members of Congress and killing them (like they wanted to do on January 6) since the whole point of the 2A is to fight against that kind of tyranny. I think the fact nobody is really doing that and the Oath Keepers et. al. have backed down says quite a bit. But what does it say about the U.S. generally if citizens become comfortable accepting lies about how elections are rigged before they even occur and regardless of what the outcomes are?
I feel like the fact that candidates are still beholden to the rich, still spend billions on campaigns, still try their hardest to gerrymander in their favor and Republicans go out of their way to make it more difficult for minorities to vote proves that voting is still pretty important. But who cares about facts like that when we can just say "it's rigged!" and move on like rigged elections are NBD and to be expected? Who cares about facts when they can just be ignored and denied? I feel like everyone should just deny anything they don't like for funsies. The next time someone tells me gas is expensive I'm just going to call them names and swear to god they're lying because I only pay $2 a gallon. How can they prove me wrong? With a receipt? Yeah okay, as if hackers can't manipulate receipts. Open your eyes...
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@Greyparrot
Ha! How about you list every Republican you ever voted for in your life and I will post every Democrat I have voted for in my life. Let's see who has the longer list.
Well considering I haven't been voting for that long I would be very surprised if I had a longer list...
I'm not sure you really want to do this!
I don't lol. You can believe I'm a diehard liberal who canvasses for Bernie Sanders and fundraises for Elizabeth Warren for all I care. The first time I voted for a Democrat was 2018 and I've voted for some Republicans since then too (city council, board of ed). I hate public unions.
But if it makes you feel a false sense of superiority by deluding yourself into thinking you have even one ounce of objectivity then I won't rain on your parade :) So I'll declare you victorious, sir. You're the king of impartiality which is very obvious to us all. Congratulations.
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@Greyparrot
45 minutes north of me is Queens lol. Lots of traffic.
And no my theme song is "I Like That" by Janelle Monae :)
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@Greyparrot
Why would I? He is an ex-president with no power over me.
Because he's the most influential figure in the Republican party today, a notorious character still politically relevant on the national + world stage, and the next Republican nominee for POTUS.
Also because he continues to preside over a cult of personality including politicians who refuse to accept the results of current and future elections they may lose. He is powerful with members of congress that are completely beholden to him and followers that would happily commit crimes on his behalf.
But hey if you don't think all of his constant lying and manipulating is problematic I get that. There's nothing wrong with gaslighting people to maintain control over them and control over a narrative just as long as they're not Democrats. Because when Democrats do it it's catastrophic. I mean just look at the Biden administration "redefining the word recession" for example. How we can ever recover from this controversy I don't know but I'm sure it has a widespread impact on the world somehow.
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@Greyparrot
What exactly am I projecting? I have no problem criticizing Democrats lol none.
Meanwhile let's note that you made a thread about gaslighting because Biden has trouble reading from a teleprompter or something (ooooh, aaaah) while saying positively nothing about Trump's gaffes, gaslighting and shameless lies + outright denial of reality that's been perpetuated by conservative media for the last year and a half.
In fact I've never seen you call out Republicans or conservatives post 2016 on their rights violations, their ignorance, their spending, their bias, their mistakes, their bigotry, their misguided policy, their one sided media and certainly not their power hungry deceit from people like Kevin McCarthy et. al. that have been caught on tape lamenting what a shithead Trump is but sucking his dick publicly with no shame (kinda like you do I guess). Instead you just shrug it off and make excuses for everyone who cow tows to Trump's denial of reality and attempt to manipulate the public as if that gaslighting is NBD.
Every aspect of your ideology just seems premised on opposition to the left. That's it. There are no consistent principles, no substance, no persistent goals or values that I can discern - just catastrophizing the latest top du jour from Fox & Friends and whining about liberals as if it's a personality trait. I mean it's not like I expect a ton of intellect or self-awareness from someone who watches Tucker Carlson unironically, but I'd be surprised if you couldn't at least acknowledge your own deeply prolific and insanely obvious bias. Come on now. Democrats have started to turn on Biden (I don't care about him) which you acknowledge, whereas Trumpkins are far too brainwashed and far to invested to ever criticize King Daddy Gaslight. You don't even like Trump and you can't even bring yourself to criticize him or his brainwashed followers. Face it, you're just as pathologically partisan as everyone else, and certainly more so than me :)
And no I don't know what state you live in. Virginia? Hmm no... you mentioned being jealous of the beach. I'll say Colorado.
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@3RU7AL
True. I still think the byproducts of capitalism are better than the alternative even with the blowback of capitalist pursuits (pollution, classism, etc.). Surprisingly I've never been much of a hippie despite how much pot I smoke. I've always been more of a self-interested, cut-throat, figure it out, pull yourself up by your bootstraps cuz the world and least of all me doesn't owe you shit kinda person, which makes all the jabs about me being some kind of socialist libtard all the weirder lol. I guess if they say so.
But yeah I think people should look to profit off better energy alternatives. It's simply the best motivator. I mean we can try other motivators ("the world is burning") but apparently that's not very compelling, and many have been duped into thinking that fossil fuels aren't actually harmful at all. The easiest way to get coal miners and oil riggers on board are to give them safer but more importantly better paying jobs.
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@Greyparrot
The Federal Government should not be constitutionally restricted.
I don't know what this means. This statement logically translates to "the federal government should be able to do whatever it wants" since that's what it means to say there are no constitutional restrictions on what they can do (meanwhile, per your acknowledgement the Bill of Rights is specifically about restricting what the federal government can do).
I know you don't believe that the feds should have no constitutional restrictions, so you probably just worded that wrong or maybe I'm misinterpreting you. That begs the question of why can't you just answer a Yes or No question with a Yes or No? Why must you provide a convoluted answer like that? Very weird.
I'd simply like to know if you believe the feds should be able to regulate commerce such as with the examples I gave you -- like should they be able to tax foreign goods for example, YES OR NO -- but I know better than to think you're capable of a straightforward answer. I do apologize for wasting our time in trying to have a normal conversation.
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@Greyparrot
Come to think of it, there are a ton of people who live in my Democrat neighborhood that regularly burn wood in the winter to keep from dying. How about you go around and explain to them how dying is preferable to living in "the dark ages"
I never said that going without heat is preferable to using antiquated energy. I wonder what prompted you to come up with such a blatant strawman like that.
To be honest part of me is fine with poor people using wood to keep warm, but it's Republicans, not Democrats who are also cool with that. Your point about Democrats is pretty stupid since Dems are routinely the ones pushing to subsidize oil companies to give poor people heat while Republicans fight against it. In fact Trump tried to get rid of LIHEAP several times. I bet you don't even know what LIHEAP is lol. Google it.
What I actually said is that capitalism is about the evolution of better processes and products, so I'd prefer to transition away from 1800s style energy production ASAP for something better: something cleaner and more efficient. Why on earth would anyone NOT want that? Oh right... just to spite the libs.
Please try harder next time you post something snarky in an attempt to condescend to me if you can. You act as if you hurt my feelings by knocking Democrats lol what do I give a shit. I knock them all the time. They have nothing to do with me personally and I'm not in a cult like you are. I'm not even a member of the Democrat party but I guess if you think that's clever then sure, stick with whatcha know.
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@Greyparrot
Wow, those are some brilliant arguments - especially the part about Nancy Pelosi investing in green energy! Surely no Republicans invest in oil, right? Because that would be a huge conflict of interest that makes your entire point a useless one that proves nothing.
And obviously any contributions or lobbying from oil companies to Republican politicians would delegitimize every single aspect of their energy policy, so I'm sure you've done your due diligence in ensuring none of that goes on. Right?
You've convinced me there is no price fixing in the oil industry to boot! It's a totally free market indeed. And you're also correct that Democrats are intentionally bankrupting their constituents just to give 86 year old Nancy Pelosi a few extra bucks, which became clear to me once you brought up blackouts and lockdowns. I haven't seen you use the red herring of lockdowns in like 16 hours so I know you really mean it this time.
If this country wants to save itself we need to seriously just stick with oil and coal or else risk politicians profiting off green energy which is just unacceptable. Every single other industry they can profit off of but not that one, sorry. That's where we draw the line.
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@Greyparrot
By "constitutional influence" I mean constitutional authority.
I'm asking if you think the feds should have the authority to regulate foreign trade like they currently do according to the constitution, or if you think the Commerce Clause should be amended to exclude this provision. I truly don't know how I can make this question any more clear after being so explicit.
I have no reason to defend a totally made up position that you're ascribing to me. I don't know why you think I'm disagreeing with you when I have no idea what your position even is in the first place.
I'm asking if you think the feds should have the authority to regulate trade. I'm not stating whether I think they should or they shouldn't. I'm noting that they often DO influence trade and I gave you several examples of how they do that. Consider Trump's 25% tariff on Chinese steel. Do you agree with giving the government the power to regulate foreign trade in this way - yes or no?
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@Greyparrot
While keeping all regulations in place.
Every legal business is regulated. Which drilling regulations should be done away with?
Most oil drilling is done by small independent outfits
Don't be daft. Still a ton of price fixing in the oil industry.
Oil rigs could drill more now if they wanted to. They currently lack the supplies, the manpower and the will to invest given how volatile oil markets can be. They just took a massive hit during the pandemic (that they've colluded to rectify with production limits). Pretending that Democrats can fix this by simply demanding they produce more or by conceding to idiotic climate change deniers and lobbyists to ensure Big Oil remains on top is not a good solution.
The libertarian in me wants no part of government investing in a bunch of initiatives that will inevitably exploit taxpayers, even if it means a shift away from the energy sector of the 1800s I'm hoping to see sooner rather than later. But the pragmatist in me thinks the GOP is doing a massive disservice to their constituents by lying to them about global warming, and pretending that remaining in the dark ages is somehow in their financial best interest just because they happen to work for a coal company. The entire country should't be beholden to the financial interests of a few thousand miners in West Virginia who barely make enough to scrape by with their current jobs as it is. Capitalism should be about evolution and trying to improve the status quo, not holding onto it for dear life by using lies to scare people into clinging on to their shitty quality of life they're afraid is being threatened while they get left behind.
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