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RM is the Donald Trump of Mafia lol (except he doesn't win).
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@Buddamoose
I think Danielle mentioned previously she thought he was town. Slipped my mind to ask,@Danielle- why the town vibe on Hammer?
Nope, no town read on Hammer. I said my biggest suspects were Supa and GP with Earth being close in the running, and Hammer is probably 4th on my list. Earth's general lack of posting/analysis seems odd since he doesn't mind voting, but doesn't offer much. I also noted that GP and Earth (but also Hammer) have been careful with their posts - careful to the point of not having any potential "scum slips" or stepping on any toes. Hammer hasn't posted much but seemed a bit more aggressive than GP and Earth, at least early on. I definitely don't town read Hammer, but I see no reason to lynch him today. He's null.
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@Buddamoose
Like I said, he seems genuinely dim regardless of Mafia. I honestly think he lacks reading comprehension (for instance, in addition to the whole John/Robert thing he said that I "scum slipped" by revealing Danny was not in the game. Meanwhile I only speculated that he MIGHT not be in the game, along with my reasoning: that Danny is TUF's profile pic. I have no idea if Danny is in the game or not).Lord I would be scum reading him so hard if this wasn't par for the course with rational regardless of affiliation.
It's funny because I always scored really high on literacy tests and wondered how the hell anyone could get less than like a 95% on reading comprehension. They literally ask you a question with the answer in the reading; you just have to go and find it. Now I see that some people just legitimately can't understand the text in front of them lol.
I do hope RM replaces out. I can't see how it's fun to play with someone who will be scum read 100% of the time regardless. It would be easy to exploit if he were actually scum, and his very presence in the game is a detriment to town. I'm also concerned that he thinks I'm "bullying" him. All I said is that everything he posts is wrong and should be ignored for the sake of the game. He probably is town despite horrible play. His vitriol toward me is a bit amusing if not concerning for his mental health.
Have you chimed on with thoughts on GP yet? We have 30 mins to vote and I g2g soon. I'd prefer to lynch Supa or GP.
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@Vaarka
Fair enough. I agree, but I do think TUF likely gave 1 fake claim so I could see a noob being eager to "confirm" themselves with it.Earth hasn't done squat so he's just null. Supa early on was an FOS of mine, but don't want to lynch him yet b/c of his claim. Budda is right that it seems noob town and I know he doesn't have a ton of experience.
Do you think it's weird that you find Earth null but me as a scum read despite my activity/analysis? (I do.) Is there any part of my analysis that you disagree with? How about drafterman's?
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@Vaarka
You can FOS me at some other time. There's really no reason to now. I think Budda, drafter and myself have put forth the most analysis. Plus I breadcrumbed so I can always refer everyone back to that if/when I have to claim. I assume I'll be dead tomorrow though tbh.But I also wanna keep an FOS on him because then I lose any reason to have an FOS on you and my gut says to keep an FOS on you
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@Vaarka
What do you think of Earth and Supa? I'd vote for GP today if we had no better options, but I think those two might be (especially Supa). Supa's behavior is weird/anti-town, but I can't tell if he's just generally a poor player.
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Also @Vaarka why are you still responding to RM? I thought we agreed for the sake of the game to ignore him.
He thinks claiming an un-cc'd character somehow makes him town. Everything he says is virtually useless and/or wrong. Please don't derail the game by playing along.
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@Vaarka
Lol why would I out my one town read (drafterman) if we were scum buddies? That means if one of us were found to be scum, it would automatically implicate (as in yield suspicion on) the other. Use your head. If anything, as scum I would "town read" someone innocent in order to #1 gain credibility and #2 put suspicion on them when I flip guilty. So this logic just sucks in general. You shouldn't believe we're both scum based on my town read of him. That's retarded.I explained earlier my reads on Danielle and Drafter were mostly gut (aside from her town reading him and me saying 'OH SHIT'). GP seems hardly active, making generic posts and not really contributing to the game. Doesn't seem like he's really trying to do anything specific and fly under the radar and I don't like that.
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@drafterman
Oh, I guess you mean the bold. I agree that's sus but I was initially speculating on both players as well (they had a back and forth that seemed very contrived). Plus it seems that RM is just really easy to scum read in general. I'll look back on Hammer's posts, but not sure if I feel comfortable lynching him within the hour on a whim.My issue with hammer is he heavily FOS'd RM, but then ended up voting for Supa. Voting contrary to your statements has always been a scum tell for me. But now that I went back and through Vaarka's posts, I am beginning to FOS him more. I'm comfortable with a Supa/Hammer/Vaarka lynch, but Hammer is the only feasible one with the time remaining.
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@drafterman
Why is Hammer the only viable lynch for today? I'm sure you said it earlier but I must have missed it.I'm not trying to start a wagon, as I said to Danielle, Hammer is the only viable lynch for today. I'm just discussing my results of analyzing Vaarkas posts, which you asked me to do, btw.
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I get that Vaarka's suspicion of me was predicated on me saying that I was going to watch TV. I understand that line of thinking (that I was making an excuse for lack of posting/analysis) which is why I didn't omgus FOS him. However I was concerned (as others have pointed out) that he's FOS'd 2/3 of the players in the game. He also said "my next prediction" was me and drafterman as scum, implying he wasn't even trying to actively scum hunt so much as throw out a bunch of possibilities. I don't see the point of that. Nonetheless Vaarka isn't really on my radar right now, and ya'll know I agree with his suspicion of GP.
Also @Budda I realized that I forgot to write the word "though" somewhere in my assessment of linking your character claim with Supa's, which would have conveyed that I don't think you have to be on the same team. I agree it's possible that he's scum and you're not. I suppose the reverse is also true, but would appear less likely.
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@Vaarka
Aren't you usually more... idk, aggressive when you play? I remember you typically being an aggressive playeror were you only like that when YYW is in the game
How am I not being "aggressive" here? I just posted 6 paragraphs of analysis including a slew of insults toward RM lol.
This is the kind of useless post that seems like (as drafterman said) you throwing out random comments and then seeing if any FOS' stick.
But yes, I am generally more aggressive when YYW plays. In Mafia and life in general, my harsh tone toward others is always in retaliation (not instigation). YYW is a scumbag when he plays, so I tend to respond in kind. RM is being douchey, but unlike YYW he seems genuinely dim so I do feel a little guilty by replying in kind. Oh well. I think it's best to just ignore him entirely for now.
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@drafterman
I've been thinking about Budda's claim. At first I was skeptical. An innocent child is a fairly solid claim, but in a small game, a DP3 innocent child is right on the cusp. If he is banking the game could end before them, then it's a really ingenious, if risky claim. I think 2 maf is reasonable. Meaning 2 mislynches and 3 nks gives maf a win. That puts us at, potentially DP3 with one kill away from a maf win.I agree this is a stretch, and am not discounting the claim at the moment, but it is not a slam dunk claim as I would normally interpret it as.Right now, my chief FOS are Supa (for the unsolicited vanilla claim and reasons previously given) and Hammer (for reasons previously given).RM, unfortunately, is town which basically means I ignore him for the rest of the game.Earth and Danielle I don't have a read on yet.GP is GP and pretty much inscrutable to me.I'm waffling on Vaarka. On the one hand I see his actions as legitimate scum hunting, on the other I see it as casting a bunch of FOS to see what sticks and can whip up a wagon on.
I agree with all of this, strengthening my town read on you. Thoughts on Hammer?
Also, with ~2 hrs left in the DP, who would you be most comfortable lynching at this time?
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Not sure how much I'll be able to contribute before the end of the DP, so here's where I'm at.
- Everything about RM is scummy. Not only does he manipulate people's words (or struggle with reading comprehension) and seemingly have a hard time with meaningful analysis, but he's misleading and his advocacy is just all wrong. For instance, I disagree with his call to have everyone character claim right off the bat among other suggestions. His tone is a bit whiny, his votes are careless, he goes on tangents, and his logic is not helpful. So I think we all agree that RM comes off scummy regardless of whether he is or not. The question is what to do about it. We can (a) pressure for a role claim - though this could help scum if we don't wind up lynching, (b) agree for everyone to ignore all of his posts - which would honestly be in our best interest if we kept him alive, or (c) just lynch him now to rid of this distraction. Right now I vote for option B.
- Earth, Hammer and Vaarka still need to post more. Earth promised his reads and didn't deliver. Hammer is coming off townish to me, but there's not much to go on. Same goes for Vaarka. drafterman gives me a town vibe, and I've said why we should prolly leave Budda alone until DP3.
- SupaDudz said he wouldn't vote for RM until he got RM's full claim. Like I said, that seemed like a useless quip since the whole point of voting for someone is to pressure them into a claim. Why would RM (or anyone?) claim without pressure? Later on Supa clarified that he meant he wouldn't vote to KILL without a claim, but the same logic applies. People vote for pressure - not for death until other options have been weighed. It was the very beginning of the game and this seemed defensive of Supa, as if people were pushing to lynch RM right away which wasn't the case. Supa also character and role claimed without provocation. This defensive behavior was anti-town; it's also suspicious because I'm fairly certain that TUF gives the mafia at least 1 fake claim. Additionally, it's worth noting that Supa says he claimed right away because he'd be too busy to post this weekend, but then continued to post.
The only thing giving me a town read is that he implied both Nolan and John were referenced in his character description. This suggests that Nolan and John are in the game, giving more credibility to Budda's claim. Supa also seemed to pick up on this and imply Budda is town. @Budda - do you agree with this? If you are town than we should assume Supa is town, correct? Conversely if Supa is scum, it would put a FOS on Budda. I'm not sure Budda would have "allowed" that poor scum play if they were on a team.
- Grey asked for someone to "throw out a few crumbs" pertaining to their claim. That seemed like a weird way for mafia to fish on who to NK. The rest of us are trying to figure out who might be scum through behavior; not discern what people's character and roles are off the bat. In fact we should want to keep these things hidden, and only have people claim or hint about their role when necessary. Any breadcrumbs should be subtle to the point of being unnoticeable and simply used for reference later... at least that's how I've used them. GP's posts are also careful not to yield any potential slips (as I mentioned earlier). Same goes for Earth. Meanwhile Hammer, Vaarka and Budda are putting their speculations out there and leaving themselves wide open to scrutiny.
I'd say my biggest scum reads are Supa and GreyParrot with Earth being close in the running. I assume out of all players, people would be most comfortable lynching Supa today. I could get down with that, however like I said he MIGHT be somewhat saved based on his reference to the character of Nolan. How does everyone feel about GreyParrot and Earth?
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@RationalMadman
WE never ever said john is GF we said he's framer or investigative.
Omg lol. Once again, I never said that YOU said that John might be GF (I even copied and pasted this for proof.) I said that I speculated on that and never attributed it to anyone else. Can you read? I'm concerned.
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@Vaarka
To be clear, "gut feelings" are useless unless you have a history of your gut feelings being right. My guess is that you don't since I know you're wrong here (not sure about drafterman, but I thus far I haven't gotten scum vibes from him).Inactivity isn't the sole reason I'm sus of them. Like I said, it's a gut feeling I'm willing to pursue, whereas Earth and Hammer didn't really leave much of an impact at all.
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@RationalMadman
She said it was what we said. Stop acting smart you emoji spewing cunt I am sick of you @ing me, enjoy being blocked.
You're wrong and you keep doubling down which is just embarrassing for you. I will copy and paste what I said.
John is probs scum as an investigative role and/or Godfather. Also, we've already kind of speculated on who is scum (John & Robert or Danny) so I guess we can scratch what I said earlier about hiding what characters we think might be scum. It seems a bit obvious despite the theme of moral ambiguity in the show.
I didn't speculate at all about Robert's role. Thinking about it further, I agree he could be GF while John is investigative or a framer (still could be GF too I guess).
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@Buddamoose
Considering the suspicion of him is from Supa and Rational and they're both omgus votes... not all that much suspicion
Nope GreyParrot mentioned him as well (I believe) and Vaarka said he thinks drafterman and I are scum.
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@RationalMadman
I never said "we'd" concluded that. You need to stop misrepresenting lol you're bad enough at this game as it is. I offered it as a potential speculation and justified my reasoning: John is considered a golden boy in both his family and society at large; someone who could do no wrong given his job and role in the community. That fits perfectly with Godfather. Thinking about it further (especially because I suspect Danny might not even be in the game) I could see Robert as the other scum, and GF could fit him as well. I was simply throwing out theories - not making bold assertions. These are theories you seem to agree with (John and Robert as scum) so the fact that you're calling it a potential scum slip seems retarded. Nothing about my speculation would be a "slip" of any kind.It is. Danielle outed an interpretation that town would never reach reading what you and I said. She said we'd concluded John was GF or investigative as opposed to him being the framer/investigative and Rob the GF.
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@Vaarka
don't try to play dumb, you know it's my mafia prediction
I wasn't playing dumb. It wasn't clear that you made an INITIAL prediction, so a "next" prediction was confusing. Coupled with the fact that you've offered 0 analysis for drafterman or I potentially being scum, I wasn't sure what you were talking about. Settle down.
On another note, I have drafterman as my most solid town read which is amusing given all the suspicion on him. Change my mind.
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@Buddamoose
Thank you. Do you happen to know the vote count? Day phase ends in 3.5 hours, and with everyone posting it probably doesn't warrant an extension.
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@Vaarka
I agree with the skepticism on GP. However I agree with GP that Supa seems fishy.Why lean town? I'd call his behavior null at best, slight scum at worst
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@Greyparrot
"Because I already knew why Earth voted, i wanted to hear from the other 2."
Budda started the game by suggesting people pressure RM (I get it now). Earth said "meh vote RM." Then Earth commented something along the lines of "I'll need more than that to change my vote." I don't recall him posting much of anything since then. Are you comfortable with his analysis and contribution?
I'd still like to hear more from Earth and Hammer. Vaarka is posting more, but I seem to disagree with his analysis so I'll have to figure out how to read that later.
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@Vaarka
"Next Vaarka prediction: Danielle and Drafter"
What does that mean? (Someone plz tell me how to quote/reply. Thank you.)
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I don't know how to reply to people's text, but RM is pretty amusing.
"Wait, I think Danielle scum-slipped. She said that we had concluded that John was GF and that Rob was an investigative role but this doesn't add up and was not at all what we concluded."
No I didn't. I said we assume John is likely scum, and the other scum could be Danny/Rob though I suspect Danny might not be in the game. I also said JOHN might be Godfather or investigative scum (given his role in the family/society as the presumed golden boy, and his profession in law enforcement). I said nothing about Rob, so RM is just making shit up and attributing it to me lol. I could see why he's scum read in every game. It's clear that he will be utterly useless to town, though that's prolly not a good reason to lynch him off the bat.
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Hammer, Earth & Greyparrot - updated reads? I'd like to hear more from you as well as Vaarka. And does anyone have the vote count or nah?
I don't think there are 2 scum teams; it probably wouldn't be balanced. I also don't think Danny is in the game. The mod has Danny as his profile pic which may mean he transcends the game. John is probs scum as an investigative role and/or Godfather. Also, we've already kind of speculated on who is scum (John & Robert or Danny) so I guess we can scratch what I said earlier about hiding what characters we think might be scum. It seems a bit obvious despite the theme of moral ambiguity in the show.
While I don't think Sally is scum, I don't buy the "I'm an un-cc'd main character!" quip either.
Does anyone know if Supa has a history of outing his role on DP1 without prodding? What he did wasn't pro town, but he's young and I'm not sure how good he is at this game, so. I don't exactly know how to read it. I also don't know how to read RM. Both of them seem scummy, though again they might just be young/noobish who play anti-town by accident.
I'm more concerned about Earth & Greyparrot atm because they are being more careful about what they post, which limits opportunities for scum slips and leaves room to manipulate the more talkative townies. Drafter is also not as volumous with his posts, but I get a slight town read on him. GP, why were/are you sus of drafterman?
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Everyone has posted at this point which means some real analysis can be done. I'ma go skim the DP again for clues while watching TV. Btw I'm not sure it makes sense to speculate out loud which characters are scum. I'd say take note of it on your own, rather than give the mafia outright indications of who NOT to character claim (though tbh I think TUF always gives at least 1 fake claim).
drafter - why is Supa your biggest scum read? And does anyone have an updated vote count?
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I don't remember how R-M plays, specifically as scum. I find it curious that he said his character was close to Jane. Suffice to say that in this game, I'm sure most characters would be close to Jane (though John would be closest). Coupled with R-M's in depth analysis on why John is scum, I'm wondering if a lot of his insight comes from his role/PM descriptions as opposed to his individual research. I agree that John is likely some type of investigative scum. Do you think RM could have deduced that on his own? Ya'll seem to be implying that he's a poor player, hence why I'm asking. And RM hasn't role claimed yet, correct? (Like I said I kinda skimmed after page 5). Also, I'm signing off in a bit.
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Ya'll implied RM is a bad townie. How is he at scum/mafia analysis?
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@Vader
I usually clarify "vote for pressure" vs. "vote for death/lynch" but okay. RM seems more sus than you at the moment anyway.
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@Buddamoose
Budda's analysis is reasonable. Let's hear more from RM.
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I assume there are 2 scum. With only 9 players in the game, I'll rely on a bit of mechanics analysis as well as PoE. I have watched Bloodline, but I have a notoriously bad memory. Speaking of which - I don't remember Budda's playstyle, but I definitely don't recall his use of such playfulness/extra emojis or smiley faces, etc. I can't tell if he's being defensive or not, but his initial vote on RM made sense.
SupaDudz said he won't vote for RM until he gets RM's full claim. That seemed like a useless quip, since the whole point of voting for someone is to pressure them into a claim. Why would RM (or anyone?) claim without pressure?
Later RM says he has a character very close to Supa's. Supa claimed Jane Rayburn. The character closest to her would be her dad, John Rayburn. Then RM gives an analysis later on why John is likely scum. Upon reading it I'd be open to lynching him, but I did appreciate his post at 12:34 yesterday. However that was strictly based on character analysis, and it's likely that scum has more context than town so it's not weighted much.
Back to Budda. He claimed Danny, then Nolan Rayburn. I guess I can SOMEWHAT see Nolan being an Innocent Child, but regardless it seems like we should see if Budda is mod confirmed on DP3 and just move on for now. DP4 would make me hesitant, but DP3 seems fine.
Then tbh I started skimming on page 5. The back-and-forth between RM and Supa seems a bit contrived. Because they have the most exchanges/potential slips, aside from Budda who is prolly getting a pass til DP3 anyway, I wouldn't mind lynching between RM and Supa. Thoughts? I'll probably go back and read the last few pages more in depth now, but wanted to comment and get some analysis in asap.
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@Vader
I'm watching the Giants/Texans now, but there is a whole story about "my team" that I'll save for another thread.
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I forgot DART existed, tbh. Sincere apologies for the delay of my Sign Ups, though it looks like there have been some activity issues anyway. I'm glad I signed in before the end of DP1 (btw I didn't get a message about being replaced, so I assume I haven't been yet). Gonna read and catch up now while watching football. Gimme a bit.
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If you want me to vote on a debate, let me know. I can't promise I'll see it but I'll try to keep an eye out.
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I prefer DDO. I would use it if there was activity.
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@Smithereens
I completely agree with your assessment of Peterson (sucks that this site doesn't have the quote/reply feature yet). You can't reduce human complexity to lobsters. You just can't.
I'm also surprised that you thought I was a leftist lol. Most people think I'm more right-leaning than I am. I guess I'm somewhere in between! I used to be so libertarian that I was practically anarcho-capitalist, but I'm pretty moderate now. I would say I socially lean left and economically lean right. However I don't go so far left as to embrace identity politics as much as your modern day liberal.
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Jordan Peterson has emerged as a popular and controversial figure. He's popular because he resonates with people who a) prefer right-leaning [especially cultural] values; and b) hold moderate to right-leaning values, while appreciating or at least tolerating thoughtful discourse that does not shy away from "anti-PC" rhetoric in search of truth and societal righteousness.
Jordan Peterson is thusly very useful in 2018. He is able to both rationalize and more importantly articulate the values and perspective that compel people to shy away from the direction the left is going; to maintain a firm moderate stance - or on the other side - maybe even support Donald Trump. Indeed Jordan Peterson is perhaps the one thing Donald Trump fans and some Democrats still have in common. He is valued by people from different ideological camps. Peterson is praised by moderate Dems, conservatives, and especially libertarian minded folk. Moreover, he is touted by both atheists and religious (mostly Christian) folk alike as being a representative of some of their most deeply held values. That wide-range of appeal is both fascinating and incredibly rare in this day and age.
This of course begs the question: what makes Jordan Peterson different? For starters, he is the antithesis of identity politics, which is more obviously becoming an ever growing crutch of the left. Just last week Joe Biden launched an LGBTQ family acceptance campaign called "As You Are." While of course the values espoused in that campaign have merit (tolerance and acceptance), people can't help but notice the increased Democratic reliance on playing to people's identities, as many are speculating this campaign was indicative of Biden's interest in another political run. Many within its own party have accused establishment Democrats of a desperate devotion to identity causes, rather than focus on and provide smart, reliable and useful solutions to the problems and issues concerning most Americans today.
Another cornerstone of Peterson's appeal is his commitment to a rational, not emotionally driven conversation. This quells the reliance on hate spewing: it deters name-calling and appeals to emotion in lieu of a thoughtful exchange of ideas. Despite us sometimes falling victim to these anti-intellectual and potentially hateful exchanges (or maybe I'm just speaking for myself here...), I think most people do not want to rely so heavily on such tribalism. I think most people, deep down - at least I hope - would prefer to be thoughtful instead of ignorant. Jordan Peterson compels people to be thoughtful.
To be truly openminded, one has to let their ego subside entirely. When so much of your values rely on a reference to identity, it can be hard to let that go. Therefore many intellectually minded people on the left fall victim to the emotional appeal of progressive rhetoric. However, unwavering tolerance; irrationality in the name of morality; or a moral/cultural decline in society ought to be examined with legitimacy, even if they do fall under the "politically incorrect" category. Politically correct causes cannot be the justification for accepting any idea touted by people in society. That's where Jordan Peterson comes in. And that's what makes him both so beloved by many, and feared/loathed by just as many. He completely delegitimizes any argument that stems from one's personal struggles... regardless of how truthful or valid they may be. Instead he demands some other metric in support of one's cause.
So here are my thoughts: We know Jordan Peterson is committed to rejecting identity politics, and we should understand why this makes perfect sense. In many cases the left wing of the ideological spectrum has completely gone off the rails - insofar as aggressively and unjustifiably promoting censorship among other infractions, all in the name of political correctness or "tolerance," progression, etc. Not only has this had some counterproductive effects in some cases, but it can and has stifled some discourse entirely. There are still some of us in society who value a productive conversation. We understand there is more than one side to the story; more than one perspective to keep in mind when promoting values or policy decisions. As such, we gravitate toward Peterson's approach to reason.
And yet, Jordan Peterson fans must be careful to not automatically value everything he says, just because we very much appreciate the way he evaluates and presents his argument. We have to maintain rationality and virtue above our allegiance to his rhetoric. In reality, one's personal struggles are absolutely variables to consider when looking at a cultural (moral or political) problem. Sometimes Peterson and his supporters too aggressively deny that fact, or are too busy fighting/defending themselves to consider this important factor in the debate.
Jordan Peterson does not have all the answers. He is not always right. He often presumes or speaks on things without full grasp of the subject, and sometimes gets hypocritical. But so what? None of us have all the answers; none of us are always right. We all presume, assume, confuse or misrepresent at different times. We can all be convicted of hypocritical or conflicting values. The important thing is that we we do our best to understand and to explain to and from one another, and that we keep trying to search for truth, justice and meaning in this ever-changing and infinitely complex world. I think overall, Jordan Peterson presents a net positive insofar as promoting these things, at least at face value. It's up to us to carry out these ideals, and collectively rise above Peterson's personal wrongs to find righteousness.
What do you think? Are you a fan of Jordan Peterson? Why or why not? Post your most loved/hated Jordan Peterson quips here.
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If you are a fan of Bernie - do you agree and why?
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@RationalMadman
Agree Shameless is good and better than the UK version (though I usually don't like/prefer the UK version of anything). I'm one season behind on Shameless.
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For some reason I'm going through an indie phase - not sure why.
Where's bsh1 at? Mah music buddy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxVRhrfsleQ
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1. Buddamoose
2. TheHammer
3. Earth
4. Danielle
5.
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I watched S1 and S2 of Bloodline iirc.
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Sign Ups
1. TUF - Bloodline Mafia
In the Hopper
1. Danielle
[Ongoing]
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What will the site's nickname be? "D-A" doesn't have a nice ring to it. Neither does "D-A-C."
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Can we change the font (at least in the forums) to the same font as DDO? Ha, I really liked it.
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