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I'm interested. I'm not familiar with the server. It's probably easiest to contact me through Facebook whenever this happens. I'm also willing to ask people to sign up / host.
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Agree with the OP. Any progressive who doesn't vote for Biden out of "principle" is, most likely, an idiot.
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I would vote for Dan Crenshaw (Republican) and Justin Amash if he ran as a Libertarian.
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Renegade - Jay Z f. Eminem
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Absolutely not. The cost of college would continue to skyrocket (which tax payers would be on the hook for whether they go to college or not) while people get useless degrees on other people's dime. Oh, and it's an illegitimate function of government in addition to impractical.
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@Greyparrot
Drafter and I didnt know jani role would be revealed.
That explains it. That's messed up lol.
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GG everyone. I was Chelsea O'Bannon, Doctor. I protected Budda NP1 and myself NP2.
NP2 was WIFOM - I figure they'd know Doc would be on Budda, so I thought they would target me (then just kill Budda the following NP).
GP ya should framed Vaarka, though I think you could have gotten Supa and RM against me at some point assuming I was alive.
However it was an auto loss this DP for sure cuz GP fake claimed Earth's revealed role the previous day phase. @GP - Why on Earth (haha, pun intended) would you randomly out his vanilla role for no reason when the role would be revealed after 1 day...? It's not like you used it for your benefit, like faking a cop result or something.
Anyway this was fun. The theme/ set up/ mechanics were good. I enjoyed it despite RM's outbursts.
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@Vader
I would play if you needed the players because I know what it's like to need them. But I think it should be known that going forward, in any game I play with RM I just plan on ignoring him entirely.
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To be honest, I don't really want to play with RM. I hate being petty but it's honestly just not fun.
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It seems like most people are in agreement that scum is among Hammer/drafter or GP/Vaarka. At the very least it's likely among drafter/Hammer. Budda just hammer whomever. Hammer Hammer (haha). Or I will. Let's just move on.
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@Buddamoose
I told ya'll I saw season 2 but don't remember it much. I think she leaves and returns? If she does leave for good, it must be in season 3 of after I stopped watching. I'm pretty sure I finished season 2. I'm gonna watch season 3 when I have time... this game has piqued my interest.Meg leaves during Season 2 though no?
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@Greyparrot
Assuming you get mod confirmed....Right now I can't understand why our reads continue to be polar opposite...Why are you banking on character claim analysis? I've never seen it reliably implemented before.
Budda can play a bit forward, but I don't think he's scum in part cuz of the math. Right now there are 8 living players, and let's assume 2 scum. Say we mislynch drafter today and have to lynch Hammer tomorrow (or vice versa). But wait! Budda doesn't get confirmed on DP3 cuz he's scum. We'd lynch Budda, then Hammer (or vice versa) and should finish the game with 4 town to 1 scum (assuming scum successfully kill each night). So I don't think Budda is scum. It would be an inevitable scum loss. If in fact Budda is scum, he should just come out now for the sake of everyone instead of delaying the game for no reason...
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Side note... did Supa just say my avatar was a tiger? Lol.
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@Greyparrot
Dani already stated she is sure Hammer is scum. (whatevs)
Lol, no I didn't. I pushed people to vote for him first, and said multiple times we should be lynching he or Hammer for sure today and/or tomorrow. I gave reasons for suspecting both. I also have a pet peeve of people who say they "know" anything during Mafia.
It makes no sense...1st person to claim is almost 100% town...jani or no jani....if Earth was cop...why are there 3 cops in the game? It just seems like a long shot that Hammer is scum.
It's not that weird cuz one of the main characters is a cop, another main character was engaged to a cop, and the other main character was always in trouble with the law and surrounded by cops. Nonetheless why do we think there are three cops now? Did I miss something? (I have been skimming and pretending to listen to my s/o while reading.)
Also (random, and not in response to GP) I just realized Meg could be the Mafia lawyer... it wouldn't fit the mechanics but it would the theme. JS.
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@Buddamoose
This is true, it's not like GP is bad. But also consider that such advocacy would generally bring undue attention upon oneself. Something mafia is generally disincentivized to do.
It's WIFOM.
Vaarka isn't stellar, but fmpov he is good enough to have an understanding of how anti-town that is. It more seems like he was trying to keep doc off me so they could target me DP2 without worrying about doc being on me and making the save.
Yeah, I assumed as mafia Vaarka would know how inherently anti-town that looks, and he genuinely believed it. But it's def possible. Still I think GP's posts are weirder. I gave a list of 4+ reasons for suspecting him - like legit suspect behavior of his - and instead of explaining them, he responded with: That's ridiculous... I was the last vote on hammer at the start of this day. FOS on Danielle, I know your analysis is better than that. If anything, I suspect a Hammer/Dani scumteam if Drafter flips inno cop. He didn't respond to my points at all.
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@Buddamoose
Yeah but DP1 GP advocated for the facially suspicious. That is advocated for doc being on me. That looks facially suspicious(otherwise generally avoided by mafia) but is about as pro-town as it gets in advocacy.
True, but if I were Mafia I would have said the same thing... especially since the Mafia had no intention of killing you at that point since they could janitor someone else (whereas it would have been wasted if they janitored you). I think they already knew you wouldn't be the NK last night. It's not like they could fake claim innocent child without getting killed on DP3.
Vaarka advocated for me not getting doc under any circumstance, and tried starting another wagon on GP before getting called out by me and voting for Hammer. Plus his FoS's we're all over the place. It's Vaarka/Hammer fmpov.
Yeah, his play was pretty anti-town, but I guess I don't hold his play in high esteem. Plus Hammer's posts gave me the feel they weren't on the same team. But I guess it's possible.
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@Buddamoose
Okay cool, we agree. Let's lynch Hammer. I think GP is the other scum. He outed his claim for no reason (anti-town) today. He called for a mass claim (no reason to). Yesterday he was fishing for hints on people's roles (breadcrumbs are supposed to be subtle and offered without provocation). And now he's suggesting that Hammer claiming Cop first is somehow meaningful when it's not. So I think we should lynch Hammer today, and if he's inno we obviously lynch drafter tomorrow. But if Hammer is guilty we should lynch GP tomorrow. I'm starting to believe Supa's vanilla claim more now that there is a janitor, because I'm not sure TUF would essentially give TWO fake claims. Thoughts?
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@Greyparrot
We have to lynch either drafter or hammer today...
Agree
My gut feeling is drafter as hammer was the 1st to claim cop.
Claiming first would have weight if there weren't a janitor. Since there is, it's moot.
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1. Buddamoose(Sports Teams)
2. Vaarka(Fortnite Guns)
3. GreyParrot(US States)
4. TheHammer (US States)
5. Rational (?)
6. Pie (Sports or States)
7. Danielle (US States)
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Actually, now I do think Hammer is probably lying specifically BECAUSE I openly town read drafter yesterday. I was getting called sus because of it. I said he was my strongest town read at the time (and I was pushing to lynch Earth). Revealing Earth as town today and saying drafter is scum would make me look bad, which seems a bit intentional. Hmm.
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@Buddamoose
If it's alleged that means Hammer isnt being truthful. Are you proposing he is lying? If so, how does this make him more towny? He outright claimed it himself cause he cornered himself into having to claim it.
By alleged I meant allegedly. He's alleging that he's town with no decent role description. I think he's probably leaning more scum than not (though I don't think dratferman would have been a weird choice to investigate; he had quite a few votes on him yesterday iirc and everyone had different reads. I read drafter town yesterday).
If we lynch Hammer and he's inno, are you down with lynching drafter tomorrow? What I've been saying is that we should lynch one of them, but I don't want to get distracted by a framer claim next DP if we lynch wrong. I think we should all be on the same page that there probably isn't a framer in the game. Drafterman doesn't seem to agree which appears convenient thus giving me pause on a Hammer vote.
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Alright, skimming over. I'm not even going to comment on RM because he'll have a meltdown if I gave my honest assessment of his play, but suffice it to say, I think he's probably town (though Sally Rayburn is not a main character despite being integral to the story line).
I think Budda is town, I think RM is town, and I'm trying to assess what I think of GP and Supa. I will say they both outed their claims for no reason and both times it was detrimental to town.
I don't love Vaarka's play, but trying to rile me up to test my alignment felt more townish than not. That leaves me being most comfortable with a drafter/Hammer lynch today, which is basically taking me back to square one.
I do think Budda is onto something in noting Hammer's alleged lack of description. His play is consistent with a janitor role, but I don't get why drafter believes there's a greater chance he was framed than that Hammer is scum (70% vs. 30). I will go back and scrutinize this more later tonight after 9:30 EST.
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@drafterman
Yes, a 1x framer and janitor is more balanced than having a framer and janitor without X-shots.My question remains. How is that less balanced than 1x framer with a janitor?
I repeat: I said it was more imbalanced to have a janitor/JOAT combo than a janitor/framer combo. That's what I thought you said and what I was responding to.
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@Greyparrot
Danielle, don't you think this is a good day for mass character claims? RM seems to have an idea about how the names fit.
No, and it's clear RM is making things up as he goes along (frequently being wrong, and throwing a tantrum in the process).
This also seems a little sus because most of us have been commenting on theme (not just RM) but I digress. We've got bigger fish to fry. Skimming now.
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@drafterman
This is kind of a sus post. Janitor is almost always 1-shot, and in a game this small, 1x framer would be most likely as well. Kinda grasping at straws, don'tcha think? I feel like you should outline a course of action that explains what we should do today (and maybe list your reads). You'll prolly still be lynched, but feel free to defend yourself and leave something useful behind if in fact you are inno.I don't understand how a 1x framer + 1x janitor is more balanced than simply a framer + janitor.
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Edit: my comment "it would arguably be even more imbalanced" was in reference to (or I thought I read) questioning a mafia JOAT with a janitor. We KNOW there's a janitor (which is a powerful role because it essentially provides a FULL fake claim). It's most likely this is coupled with a Vanilla goon or a Godfather.
Since Hammer is so confident that there is not a framer and janitor, he should agree to be lynched tomorrow if drafter flips inno. I don't see how there's a better course of action today than lynching drafter. Does anyone?
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@Buddamoose
Take note that Hammers does not
I prolly missed this while skimming - are you sure he knew what you meant by "back story?" Mine is just a short paragraph explaining the link to my role. Did Hammer say he had no explanation at all? (If he's guilty, why would he lie about that?).
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@Buddamoose
Agree. I also think it's weird that drafter thinks it's likely he was 70% framed and only 30% Hammer is scum. That way, if we DID lynch Hammer and he's found inno, drafter could fall back on the framing defense.Just one character that has the active abilities. Presence of a mafia joat in a 9 player game(7 v 2) would most likely be paired with a GF or nothing at all fmpov.
At this point I'm comfortable lynching drafterman so long as everyone agrees to lynch Hammer tomorrow if drafter flips inno. Despite the fact that a Framer makes sense with the theme, I just can't see it from a mechanics standpoint (coupled with a Janitor).
Let's let Vaarka and GP post before hammering.
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@drafterman
It would arguably be even more imbalanced.If one maf had a 1x frame and another had a 1x janitor, would that be imbalanced?
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@drafterman
Fair. Do you think Hammer is scum or do you think you were framed?Sure. It's not necessarily imbalanced, especially with multiple ways of confirming townies. I can't imagine having an innocent child and multiple investigative roles without someway for mafia to muck with that. Also, the roles are not necessarily permanent. It's possible they are one-shot, like a mafia JOAT as Budda was suggesting.
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@drafterman
So to be clear, you think the game started with 2/9 scum, both of which had a power role? I guess it's possible, but do you really think it's 30% likely?Either I was framed or he's scum fake claiming for a mislynch. I lean toward the former.
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@Buddamoose
Yep.Does your PM mention characters and provide backstory?
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@drafterman
Blindly following a claim when there is a janitored role is a mistake. Is his guilty the only factor here? If so, I'd argue that's not enough in light of the circumstances.
Agree, but if we discount the possibility of a Framer, why else would he get a Guilty on you? What else could there be - a role redirector? That, too, seems OP for scum.
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@Buddamoose
No, fmpov it's Godfather + Janitor. Others are covering fkr John so he looks innocent and it doesn't come out he killed John. John was the one who disposed of danny's body, but it was all 3 siblings who decided to do that. And Kevin as janitor makes sense fmpov because he killed marco, and took steps with gilbert to frame O'Banmon for Marcos death.(O'Bannon had said he had proof John killed Danny).On second thought, it's possible John is GF, and fmpov perhaps Kevin could be JoaT? 1x Janitor, 1x Framer, 1x(?). Or something like that. But I'm otherwise uninclined to think a full janitor and framer would be present.
Damn, Kevin kills Marco? I think I only made it to Season 2 (and don't remember much of it) so thanks for the spoiler ;)
I was going to say I could see Meg as the Framer given what I got up to in the show.
Anyway I agree that a Janitor + Framer is OP, so it seems the best course of action is to lynch drafter. If he's Guilty then we MUST lynch him tomorrow and not even bother entertaining the possibility of a Framer. That's why I wanted Hammer and others to weigh in on if he believes the Mafia has 2 OP roles.
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that's how I knew if there was a real cop it would be Aguirre
My first guess was Marco Diaz.
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@Budda & drafterman - Do you think there is both a Janitor and Framer?
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Note: I HAVE A VERY BUSY DAY ahead and I have a meeting tonight that will keep me offline until at least 9:30 EST, but I'll try my best to pop in.
I skimmed. I saw that Hammer got a Guilty on drafter and drafter claims to have gotten an Inno on me. One's first instinct would be to believe Hammer, but I'm thinking about how Earth's role was janitored. If Earth was the cop, scum would know (potentially Hammer) and use that to forge a mislynch on drafter. I'm trying to figure out if that would be worthwhile for scum.
Let's assume 2/8 people are scum today. If we mislynch town today (drafter) and town gets killed at night, DP3 starts with 2/6 scum. If town mislynches tomorrow, we'd go into DP4 with 2/4 scum and Mafia would win. So fake claiming a Guilty result today makes sense if you consider one more mislynch tomorrow = Mafia victory. In that case, drafter allegedly getting an Inno result today feels more town.
HOWEVER, if Hammer is lying then we'd lynch him tomorrow. That's why all of this talk of a Framer is really tricky (although I admit Framer does fit the theme). Hammer could just say "I guess drafter was framed" to justify his result. I do think both a Janitor and Framer seems OP for scum though; I can't see TUF doing it. Therefore RM comes across as really sketch, but he's hard to read. I'll have to think more about this and probably go back to read more in depth later.
@Hammer - Do you think there is both a Framer AND Janitor?
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@Buddamoose
One more thing - I disagree that VTNL on DP1 is terrible. It used to be SoP. I'm sure some mathematical analysis pertaining to wifom has been done to challenge the SoP, hence why it's no longer popular to do. But to me it doesn't seem so bad. Hopefully I'm around next DP to discuss.
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@Vaarka
slight sus on Dani for not placing a vote at all (not necessarily because she didn't hammer, just that she didn't vote at all before leaving)
I'll assume we're allowed to keep posting after 3pm EST, and if not, this comment is out of line. You shouldn't get to FOS people while you're *already in the night phase* without them being able to reply, so I'll assume that we CAN talk during the night phase.
Therefore I'll take the opportunity to point out how useless this "slight sus" is, like most of Vaarka's contribution this game. I basically said "Here is my analysis in case I don't get to post before the DP ends," meaning I'd post as much as I can -- and I posted a lot -- before having to leave abruptly. I'm a working professional and Mafia is not my priority during the work day.
The only reason I'm grateful for this suspicion is because scum might keep me alive tonight because of it.
I'll stop posting about the game now. Ya'll should too.
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Are we allowed to talk or keep voting? The OP doesn't say. It just references traditional mafia rules, though I don't think there's a standard regarding twilight posting is there?
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@Buddamoose
Yeah, I'm not character claiming. In case anyone is confused, this is what happened:1. RM said earlier that the only options for character claiming were everyone keeps their character a secret or everyone claims and we try to work out the liars from there2. RM character claims3. RM references his earlier statement in an attempt to strong arm everyone else into character claimingThere's still an 85% chance he's town imo, but a lynch might be worth it considering the 15% chance he's scum and the 100% chance we'd be cancelling his anti-town utility regardless.
Ironically I liked this post by Hammer. It's not indicative of being town, but I do agree with his logic here. I can understand wanting to lynch RM based on the above context (and he just seems completely unhinged... yikes). I also agree with Hammer that Supa's posts were cancerous (though not lynch-worthy) at the time. So to be clear I do think Hammer's posts were def fluffy, but it seems like his usual play style. Now if he were still pushing to lynch Supa now while we have more to go on, I'd definitely be concerned. But it seemed like he was just throwing it out there at that point; not calling for Supa's definitive lynch. I could be wrong.
Like I said, Hammer is null to me atm. So is Earth, but all of Earth's posts were overall useless in general. He provided zero analysis, zero commentary and gave zero insight on what he found sus or what direction he thinks we should take next. Even GP gave more than that. It's a good way to fly under the radar and avoid making any waves or drawing attention to one's self/mislynches. I'd prefer to lynch Earth or Supa because he'll just stay alive until town is at wifom.
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Can you clarify which is post 131? These don't appear to be numbered.
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@Buddamoose
Hold on - I'ma go look for post 131 by Hammer. After skimming back thus far, Earth is my biggest scum read.
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@Buddamoose
To clarify, the strongest point against Hammer is that nobody town reads him? Does anyone town read Earth?
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I think if the rest of us can't agree on who to vote for within the next hour or so, we should probably vote Supa. Even if he's town, the mafia surely won't kill him (like RM) so we'll just have this vanilla claim lingering for days, probably until the game gets down to wifom. Supa doesn't seem like he'll be very helpful with analysis. His weird behavior early on and lack of utility coupled with the most popular fake claim for scum (vanilla) implies he won't be sorely missed. That said, I still feel weird about GP and Earth (and I have to reassess Hammer); I'm just not sure we'll all agree to the same wagon before the day phase ends. How would ya'll feel about voting Supa if we can't form another wagon in time? If you prefer to lynch someone else, please make your case now. I'll try and do one more quick analysis before the DP ends if possible.
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