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@RationalMadman
Money has intrinsic value, people like you and secularmerlin are just too foolish to see it.
Let's test your reading comprehension skills. Based just on the OP would you say that I am for or against a fiat money system?
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@keithprosser
Sounds like the Elder Scrolls 'godhead' and a few other fictional worlds as well. I am familiar with the concept and that is indeed the first thing that I thought of when reading Mopacs last post but this still requires an independent agent does it not?
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@Mopac
If the universe exists, is it not The Ultimate Reality that generates and sustains its existence?
The word 'generates' is again a verb. You are again asking me whether the universe was created by an independent agent of some sort. That's how words work.
I say again if this is the meaning of your question I am happy to answer as soon as you confirm that is your meaning and not a miscommunication. If this is not your meaning feel free to rephrase.
Would it help if I suggested that you ask me how or why the universe began to exist? That is a really easy question with a simple answer.
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I wouldn't say it's pathetic. Actually I think it is an exceptionally clever piece of propaganda to take a little jab at the godless commies that would have been very prominently on everyone's minds at the time.
Very clever indeed, I doubt I would have thought of it.
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@Mopac
To say that something was 'given' existence implies intent, so you are asking me whether the universe was intentionally created by some independent agent from outside of the universe. That is what you are asking.
Is that what you mean to ask me or was that just bad wording on your part? If that is what you meant I will happily answer your question, if that is not what you meant I will allow you to rephrase the question in a way that makes your meaning more clear.
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@Mopac
If you all know how it will play out, I won't waste our time then.I tried to warn you all. What else can I do?You have made your choice.
Aww, don't be like that Mopac. If we think we know what you are going to say and still disagree with you then we must be wrong about what you are going to say, right? Let's continue!
Where did we leave off... We both accepted that I believe absolute truths exist and you asked me if there was something that binds them all together then I asked you to clarify because it sounds like you are talking about either my mind or the universe, both of which I believe in. This might not be what you meant though which is why I asked you to clarify.
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@Tradesecret
What do you mean by religion? and what do you mean by right? And what do you mean by believe?
I don't see any use in using convoluted technically-accurate non-colloquial definitions for words just to sound like what I am saying actually has some deep and impactful meaning that isn't actually present at all.. When I ask a question or make a statement I say what I mean and nothing more. Language is meant for communication, not rhetoric.
And moreover, by what measure are you going to use to determine whether my believe is reasonable or not?
That is an accurate re-wording of my question, yes. I think you get it.
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@Outplayz
If you think about it, i don't have to worry about anyone else's belief, nor do you have to worry about anyone else's belief. Bc it is all subjective to what you want, what you work for, what you live for, and what you get. I don't have to go to your paradise, and you don't have to go to mine, or we can both believe the same paradise and go to it... It would explain why there are so many different beliefs. Bc if you ask people one at a time to define paradise... you will start to see a very different picture than only one being true.
It sounds like a comforting idea, but does that actually have anything to do with whether the idea is correct?
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@BrutalTruth
Yes Keith and I know too, let's watch it play out though.
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@keithprosser
Would you consider 'true' to be a universal constant?
I don't even know what that would mean. You are starting to sound like Mopac.
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@Mopac
a reality that ties them all together
What do you mean, you mean reality? I believe reality is real, sure. Most people agree on that.
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@Mopac
Convinced by the evidence, yeah. Sounds right to me. Like I said I could go into more detail on a specific one if you are interested.
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@Mopac
The short answer that gets to the root of your question would be "evidence".
If you are interested in specifics you will have to pick one.
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@EtrnlVw
What do you think of religions or doctrines that say everything about the Creator comes from one source, like the Bible?Could you give me an example or passage that I could evaluate? do you study eastern philosophy, not all books or religious texts make such a claim.
Being internally consistent is different from being correct. Your original answer to the OP mentioned that you have evidence that your beliefs are true, would you mind giving us one or two examples of the strongest evidence you have?
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@Mopac
Absolute truth (n.) - Something that is objectively true at all times and in all places and cannot be changed no matter the circumstances.
6.67408 × 10-11 m3kg-1 s-2
299 792 458 m / s
I=V/R
F=MA
8.314462618
3.1415926535...
2.71828...
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@Mopac
Absolute truths exist, yes. Would you like some examples?
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@keithprosser
I didn't say it in my heart though, I said it with electrical signals in my brain. Common mistake.
It's somewhere in the Apocropha I think. "The idiot says with the electrical signals in his brain that there is no god".
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@BrutalTruth
Just looked at your debate with him and that is the first time I have seen him use the Oxford dictionary that I can recall. Always referenced MW with me
Perhaps he converted at some point? Eh, let's put it at 7.3/10 and call it a day.
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@BrutalTruth
Not bad. I would give you a 6.5/10. Just a few more capitalized letters would have guaranteed you a solid 7/10 rating. You lost points on the Oxford dictionary reference too, Mopac is a Merriam-Webster's man. To us commonfolk the difference may be subtle but wiser minds know better! Decent performance overall.
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Fiat money by definition has no intrinsic value. It's value is given to it by social consensus and government backing. Is this lack of intrinsic value a signifigant weakness though?
Some suggest the alternative of gold or silver standard currency. A silver standard currency for example would not have the same problem of relying on government backing. You see, a person can exchange their silver-backed bill for actual silver at any time with... uh.... with the government. Right. Hmm.
The problem of social consensus is similarly done away with. After exchanging your bills for a few shiny ounces of silver you now have a highly valueable resource. Just as food is valued because it can stave off hunger and wood valued because it can build a house - both being things that not just a select few but in fact everyone can always make direct use of - so too is silver valued for... well... I guess if you have no direct uses for it you can exchange it for some food or wood. Yes, silver will always be useful for buying things from other members of society because society agrees... wait a minute...
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Why do you self-identify as an idiot
There actually is a long story behind that. Maybe some other time.
why didn't I see you at the last meeting of the Council of Idiots?
I was there. You remember that guy that kept making annoying fart noises with his armpits in the back? I had the seat right next to him.
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@keithprosser
A woodchuck would chuck all the woody wood wuk... wik... wicky...
*sigh* you win.
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I knew something was off but I couldn't put my finger on what it was. Now I realize what it was... I haven't been accused of eating babies for days now!
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@Mopac
I'm genuinely suprised that you would want to have a conversation about anyones beliefs but your own.
This thread is aimed at the religious but I made a new thread here:
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@keithprosser
A misunderstanding of how the word 'opinion' works in the English language. One of us is convinced that it is only possible to have opinions on subjective matters such as whether a piece of metal is pretty or the color blue is a pleasant color. It's a conversation that should be moved away from here, hence the [declined] debate challenge in post 38.
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@BrutalTruth
You are the one that was saying the word opinion is synonymous with subjectivity. I simply gave you the word to describe what you were trying to say, that doesn't mean I agree with you.
Let's not clutter the thread needlessly...
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@Mopac
I have previously invited you to make a thread on the topic of what I believe if you actually care to know. That invitation remains open.
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@RationalMadman
I... won't... I never said anyone will.
Look, I am not going to clutter this thread with a stupid non-sequitur tangent. I suggest you reread what I actually typed and if you still don't understand that's your problem.
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@RationalMadman
So what would you do? Kill them for thinking what they think?
Let's look at what I just said...
I am not suggesting we work to actively eliminate this type of crazy thinking.
Now zoom in a bit...
I am not suggesting we work to...
Just a bit more...
not
There we go. I think that's the part you missed.
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@BrutalTruth
I think the word you are looking for is 'subjective'.
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@RationalMadman
I am not suggesting we work to actively eliminate this type of crazy thinking, I am suggesting that the problem will diminish over time. That doesn't mean I don't think it is a problem.
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@RationalMadman
What's unfortunate? The Judge overruling it is the thing to celebrate, the couple wanting otherwise is something to ignore, quite frankly.
The fact that there are people like this in the first place is unfortunate. As I said the world is getting better all the time so it is not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things but still unfortunate.
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@BrutalTruth
A person's beliefs are either correct or incorrect. Am I asking for people to explain their beliefs or to explain the reasons behind why they hold those beliefs?
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@Outplayz
I'm agnostic, so i'm not sure if my belief is right. But i feel that my belief is superior if it is right bc i believe everyone is right.
When you say superior in this context do you mean 'more likely to be true'?
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@Mopac
Why do you believe your religion is right?
My understanding is that you use the word religion differently from the rest of the world - basically as equivalent to saying 'strong belief' - so I would have to which of my beliefs you mean.
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@BrutalTruth
The reasoning behind a belief has nothing to do with opinion. Something is either true, or it's false. That is a matter of fact.
The word belief has roughly the same meaning as the word opinion. People that have a belief in a particular religion also by definition have the opinion that their belief is correct. My question is asking what it is that causes people to hold that opinion.
Yes some opinions are correct and some opinions are incorrect. I thought that was obvious enough that I did not need to spell it out. Had I known you were going to drop by I would have known better.
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@EtrnlVw
I believe there are transcendental (spiritual) experiences because of the abundance of evidence as well as my own observations and encounters. From there it's all about putting the pieces together, getting involved and applying things you would normally not.
Would you mind going into detail on one or more of those pieces of evidence or experiences?
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@keithprosser
So you believe your religion is right because you created it yourself.
That does nothing to indicate that his religion is inaccurate. The germ theory of disease was created at some point as well but was true even long before it was thought of.
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@RationalMadman
Why do you use the word 'simply' if the explanation is going to take several paragraphs and include anecdotal evidence?
It seems you already have a rough idea how you would answer the question after signifigantly less than ten minutes of thinking about the question (based on the timestamps of our posts). If you already have a rough idea of what your answer would be just a few minutes after hearing the question I think I am justified in saying it is a fairly simple question.
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What is wrong with the definition "trust and confidence in someone or something".
I never said that was an invalid definition. Quite the opposite in fact, in my post I very clearly said there are multiple valid definitions for the word depending on the context. If you think I am advocating for a particular definition of the word faith then I urge you to read my post again, you seem to have missed my point entirely.
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@RationalMadman
It is asking for a personal opinion. Even if a person's reasons for believing are illogical a person can simply explain what the reason is and the question has been successfully answered.
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Such things are far more common than they should be in the modern world but far less common than in the past. The world is becoming a better place with each decade that passes. Some day occurrences like this will be a thing of the past.
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@EtrnlVw
That's good to hear. Perhaps certain religious doctrines and ideas about God make God out to be stupid, but everyone seems to want to hang on to those things even atheists.
Atheists don't believe in God so they can't possibly think god is stupid. They might think your idea of God is stupid but they also don't think it is real so they don't believe in a stupid god.
I can't get an atheist to agree that faith is not about believing in something with no reason or evidence. As well as other things on the list.
'Belief without evidence' is a valid definition of the word faith, though not the only valid definition.
If someone asks why you believe that your god is real and you reply "I believe because of faith" then it is reasonable for them to assume you mean belief without evidence. If you don't then I reccomend you instead respond to the question with a different answer such as "I believe because of the evidence, such as (insert reason for believing here)". That would be a more honest answer to such a question.
It's like every time I make a positive point I get blamed for "making up my own version" lol, can't win.
There is nothing inherently wrong with making up your own version so long as your belief is justified and you don't constantly shift the goal posts (I am not saying that you are or aren't doing that by the way, I have not been reading your conversations with people).
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The Creator is not as stupid as people make God out to be
I seriously doubt there is anyone that believes that the universe was created by a stupid being.
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