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@Vader
Please explain your reads. You have given four reads but only explained one.
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@Speedrace
My fault for taking it to l-1
Nope, if Supa is town this mislynch is his fault.
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@Greyparrot
Please catch up and get back to us. If you are town your insight may prove useful.
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Not the end of the world. We still have a tracker and a dreamer and very likely have a watcher too.
EVERYONE THAT IS NOT A WATCHER OR A DOC MAKE SURE NOT TO VISIT MHARMAN TONIGHT. ALL YOU WOULD DO IS DISRUPT HIS ROLE AND HE IS OUR MOST POWERFUL ROLE WE HAVE.
IF YOU ARE A WATCHER OR A DOC THEN DECIDE FOR YOURSELF WHETHER YOU WANT TO VISIT MHARMAN BUT DO NOT SAY IN THE DP WHETHER YOU WILL OR NOT SO THAT THE SCUM TEAM DOES NOT KNOW WHETHER IT IS SAFE TO KILL MHARMAN.
KEEP IN MIND THAT IF YOU DO VISIT HIM HIS ROLE IS USELESS TONIGHT.
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@Greyparrot
Pretty annoying huh?
We are probably heading into MyLo. Give us all your reads before bsh comes back on to end the DP.
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Unvote on the off chance that I miscounted the votes and Supa is still alive. Pretty sure he is dead though.
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Yeah, okay. Supa just got lynched. Club was the hammer.
Correction - Supa self-hammered I am pretty sure.
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@Greyparrot
Supa is confirmed retarded town?
That is my thoughts yes.
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@Vader
I said my read on Speed/oro. Just read it smartone
Yes. Like I said:
this DP you gave your reads for me, Warren, Mharman, and speed.
But the only read you justified was your read on speed. You said that you think I am town, that mharm is town, that Warren is scum, and that speed is scum... But you only explained the last read. The rest you just threw out there.
If you are town you are playing against your wincon by self-voting and I am very disappointed.
If you are scum this is actually a pretty smart move so congrats.
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Yeah, okay. Supa just got lynched. Club was the hammer.
Supa if you are town this is very disappointing behavior.
If Supa is town then we are at MyLo tomorrow unless there is no NK. If DP 4 starts with 6 players then we should consider a VTNL. Only VTNL if there is a less than 100% chance of lynching scum.
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@Vader
You don't get my reads when you act like a dumbass.
Firstly, this DP you gave your reads for me, Warren, Mharman, and speed. So that is a lie.
The fact that you only justified one of your reads doesn't mean that you only gave reads for one person.
So again, please justify your reads instead of just throwing out whatever you think of and hoping it sticks.
Secondly, if you are town then me not being a dumbass should not be a prerequisite for you helping town by giving and justifying your reads of people.
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@Club
I visit random people, because visitors don't do anything that actually progress the game.
Same here, please do visit CC from now on though. Turns out us visiting people could potentially disrupt town roles and there is always the slim chance of a PGO.
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@Speedrace
By "I" watched I mean Oro, I don't know who he watched NP1 when he was still playing because bsh forgot to tell me
Right, okay. Forgot you replaced in.
Let us know as soon as he tells you.
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@Vader
Do you want to explain any of those reads or just throw them all out there to see what sticks?
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@Cogent_Cognizer
I did visit you both nights so far.
This confirms speed\oros role, it does not confirm his affiliation. Mafia can have watchers too.
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@Speedrace
I was asking bsh to tell me who I watched NP1 because he forgot to tell me
Please clarify this.
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All town visitors should visit CD from now on in order to avoid unintentionally disrupting any power roles the way CC unintentionally disrupted Mharman last night.
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@Speedrace
Have you or Oro full claimed yet? I think we have our second scum but we still need to find our third. I think a mass claim like CC suggested will help with this.
There is no reason to worry about hiding power roles any more now that we have 2 claimed power roles already.
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@Cogent_Cognizer
F**k I have to admit, the possibility of an actor role would totally blow away most of my theory so far.
As Wylted and I already tried to explain, you are way too focused on roles and night actions etc. and not focused enough on behavior during the DP. Behavior analysis is what caught us our first scum when we lynched pie, and behavior analysis such as what I just posted about Supa is what will catch the rest of them as well.
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Okay so, Supa... Right.
He was on my scum list as far back as DP 1 due to POE and general bad vibes. Since then he has remained a good POE lynch but the more specific and firm reasons for scum reading him begin to form in DP 2 when the wagon on pie started picking up steam.
At first there were two main wagons, one on me and one on Pie. Because of this I decided to role claim to get attention focused off me and on to pie because I was convinced he was scum. It was not until after I claimed that Supa voted for me "to see my response" (post 176)
Is it a scum tell that he voted for me? No. Obviously not. Voting for townies is a thing that townies do all the time. It is the reasoning that he gave for the vote that caught my eye. "to see his response"... I had already claimed at that point, what response was he expecting to elicit? This feels like a vague excuse given to desperately try to remove attention from a scum partner.
This is supported later on in page ten where as Warren points out supa was verbally saying that he was opposed to the pie wagon (post 224 he says pie is definitely town) but when asked to list his reads Supa lists pie as scum. Again, is it suspicious to town read someone that is scum? No. Townies do that all the time. The fact that Supa simultaneously town read him but listed him as scum in his list though... That feels like scum trying to save their partner but also preparing a defense to cover their ass in case their partner does get lynched.
Actually I like that Warren pointed this out last DP. I had Warren as a lynch candidate purely by POE but if Supa flips as scum Warren is town confirmed in my eyes. Still very likely town even if Supa is town actually... I will have to revisit my POE accordingly.
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@Cogent_Cognizer
Wish I heard from other people. Seems everyone is quiet right now except Disc.
It is 5 AM so just be patient. People will come on.
I am driving home now. As promised I will explain my scum read on Supa when I get home.
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I am not loving this focus on how experienced players are. It carries with it the implied assumption that newer players play more poorly just because they are newer, which is not an assumption that has much in the way of historical supporting evidence.
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@Cogent_Cognizer
I ask for everyone to do a full role/character claim right now.
I second this and will repost my role and character now.
I am Theo James, compulsive visitor.
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I don't like it when people try to draw reads based on who died in the night. There are several reasons I can think of why the scum team would want Wylted dead over CC, and possibly several reasons that I can't think of because of information the scum have access to that I don't.
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@Mharman
So being visited disturbs your sleep? Good to know, I will avoid visiting you then.
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CC Club and Mharman are town, probably Grey and Speed as well.
Lynch Supa today and Warren tomorrow. Even if I did not have huge reasons to scum read Supa (which I do, just don't have time to go into it on a short 30 min break) this is the best path purely based on POE.
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@Mharman
Yeah no shit CC is town, we didn't need his claim to see that. It was pretty obvious just based on behavior analysis.
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Okay I said yesterday that if pie flipped as scum then I would want to lynch Supa next so
VTL Supa
I will explain why in detail after I get off work.
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@TheRealNihilist
He seems open-minded enough to me. I'm not seeing it.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
If you are asking if I would dismiss or dislike something because it's labeled socialism, I would not. I try to examine ideas based on what they are, what merrit I think the do or do not have. Does that answer the question?
It does, thanks.
I agree that socialism has more bad than good, I also agree that there is some good in some socialistic ideas. The reason I asked you this question in the first place is because of my conversation with TRN. He seems convinced that you are the type that would dismiss any socialistic-type policy merely because it is socialistic (post 57). Can you think of any socialistic-type policy you agree with that would prove him wrong?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I'm not so ridged that my mind couldn't be changed or that I couldn't be persuaded. It's typically not easy to do but it does and has happened.
I am not interested in changing your mind about socialism or Fix-Us, I am just curious about whether your opinion on the later would be changed merely because it was associated with the former (hypothetically).
Again I stress this is a hypothetical question but giving an honest answer would provide insight into your psyche so I am interested in hearing an answer.
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@3RU7AL
I currently have no way of knowing if your opinion on "what is socialism" has anything at all to do with whether or not you believe Fix-US is a "good" idea.
My opinion about socialism has nothing to do with my opinion on Fix-Us. The fact that I disagree with both socialism and Fix-Us is a coincidence. In other words, I disagree with Fix-Us for reasons that are more complex than "It socialism and socialism bad"
I hope that answers your question. I am genuinely interested in hearing your answer to my hypothetical, will you please respond to it?
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@3RU7AL
Please elaborate.
Nah, the only reason I dropped a comment in the first place was to point out what I perceived as a flawed thought process. The idea itself doesn't really grab my attention that much, I just happen to disagree with it.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
If I could prove to you beyond a doubt that this idea is socialistic but I could not prove that it was a good or bad idea then would you say that it must be a bad idea because of that despite all the reasons you have given for thinking it is a good idea?
I am not saying that I can do this. This is purely a hypothetical question.
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@3RU7AL
If I could prove to you beyond a doubt that this idea is socialistic but I could not prove that it was a good or bad idea then would you say that it must be a bad idea because of that despite all the reasons you have given for thinking it is a good idea?
I am not saying that I can do this. This is purely a hypothetical question.
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@TheRealNihilist
but bad for not realizing it is a socialist policy and equating it to socialism.
Why would you want people to equate socialist policies to socialism?
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@DapperMack
So no actual quick-thinking skills or originality required?
Cool. If this idea catches on you can count me in.
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@TheRealNihilist
Good for who?The position that he agrees with is more in line with a democratic socialists, neo-liberals and social democrats than a conservative one.
Right, and he is willing to look at it anyway instead of dismissing it out of hand just because it isn't something that a certain group he identfies with (conservatives) might not like on average.
Like I said I disagree with the idea personally but what you are saying demonstrates this guy may not have a red-and-blue mentality, which is a good thing.
So yeah. Good for him.
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@TheRealNihilist
I wasn't dismissing the idea because it was more socialist than capitalist. I was directing my comment to pirates. He said he liked the idea and I said "Guess you like socialist policies." which would I think go against him being a conservative.
I don't really know the guy at all but just based on what you are saying here it sounds like he doesn't look at the world as black-and-white/red-and-blue but instead examines each idea on it's own merit and doesn't dismiss them out of hand because they might be associated with a word that he dislikes.
Good for him. We need more people like that in democratic societies.
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@TheRealNihilist
Guess you like socialist policies.
Okay I think the idea in the OP isn't a good idea and I also happen to be against socialism but I have to point out that this is a really stupid post.
If your reason for disliking a certain idea is that "it sound socialism and socialism bad" then you don't really have a good reason for being against that idea. Show how the actual idea itself is actually bad rather than just dismissing it out of hand because it sounds like something that would be associated with a certain word you dislike.
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@DebateArt.com
Thank you for the timely response regarding my issue. You were correct about the cause and everything has been resolved.
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@Mharman
For example I spend about $2500 on groceries per year. One of my cards gives me 3% back on groceries, so about $75 back in rewards just for my grocery bill.
So, did I spend $2500 to get $75? No. Not at all. I spent $2500 to get $2500 worth of food. The $75 my bank gave me was just free money for carrying around their piece of credit plastic rather than their piece of debit plastic.
That particular card also gave me a one-time $150 sign-on bonus. Most credit cards will offer at least $100 as a sign-on. I have gotten about $700 in the past two years just from sign-on bonuses because I have decent credit for my age (not great but decent, 760 at 24) so banks just don't say no to me.
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@Speedrace
Isn't the point of a debate site to question various modes of thinking?
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@Speedrace
Why are people asking two questions at a time now?
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@DebateArt.com
My notifications has had an orange dot despite not having any new notifications for about a week now.
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@Mharman
I'm not. My credit cards give me free money at the end of each month, between 2% and 10% of what I buy with them depending on which one I am using and what I am buying.
Why say no to free money?
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@Ramshutu
On that scale William Sidis would score 15-18 CentiRatmans right?
Where did RationalMadman himself fall on that scale?
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