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Goldtop

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Total posts: 1,706

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Platform development
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@Castin
Easily reproduced, no problem.
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Futile
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@janesix
How do you know what I WANT?

You state them here on these forums. You want there to be a God, you want solar systems to be created by God. These are things you've made clear that you want.
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@janesix
That's true, but if your opinions are merely things you want as opposed to how things are, then they aren't honest opinions, are they.
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@DebateArt.com
Thank you sir!
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@janesix
No one is demanding you be honest with yourself, it's simply a common denominator when discussing such things.
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@Castin
It happens if I use the options in a thread, especially the "Quote" option, post to the thread and then scroll up to that page to respond to another post, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, more often doesn't. So, it would appear that once a post is made, you have to leave that page and come back to it in order for the options to work again.
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@janesix
Really?? You think I know anything about mathematics? It is purely hypothetical.

So, sheer guesswork, like grasping at straws, tossing anything into the air and hoping it floats no matter how ridiculous? That's not how reasonable people understand things.
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@janesix
You have, I haven't.
Then, that decision is not based on anything logical or reasonable, it is something that you personally want as opposed to what's real. So yes, it has to be discarded.


I look at the solar system and it doesn't look natural or accidental. 
Yet, it is quite natural, it has formed exactly as it should have formed based on the knowledge and information we have, which is based on observations of other solar systems that are at various stages in their formations. All of it agrees completely with the laws of nature.

Clearly then, you are not looking at the solar system with information, but instead through ignorance of the information, or once again, this is something you want to believe as opposed to what is real.

Again, we go back to honesty, that your beliefs in this regard can't be distinguished from being mistaken, lying or delusional.
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@janesix
Even a hypothetical requires information, knowledge and very often an observation in order to hypothesize. What knowledge, information or observation have you considered that would cause you to hypothesize? This knowledge of course would need to have a logical path from one to the other. Can you offer such a thing?

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Can you tell the difference between these definitions?
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@Mopac
Mopac the Dictionary Preacher has failed. His clam is God is truth and truth is God. The dictionary does not support this claim.

Truth

- the quality or state of being true.
- that which is true or in accordance with fact
- a fact or belief that is accepted as true.

God

- the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
- a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
- an adored, admired, or influential person.

Therefore, God is not truth and truth is not God.

The Dictionary Preacher has failed.

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@janesix
We've already discarded personal experience because you have no way to show you're not mistaken, lying or delusional.

Please explain how you believe the solar system was created by God as opposed to the scientific explanations based on the laws of nature? This will also require you to explain the need for a solar system? The need for planets? The need for a Sun? A Moon? Etc.

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@Mopac
You don't have a case. 

Of course I have a case, I am using YOUR standards of the authority of the dictionary.

The dictionary shows you are wrong.

You obviously don't know better.

Here is the case, try and refute it. You can't.

Truth does not have God in the definition, God does not have truth in the definition. God is not truth, truth is not God.
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@janesix
That's assuming it wants to be known to everyone.
We already know the result of God revealing himself to only a few; conflict, wars, many religions, etc.

An omnipotent being wouldn't be so dumb as to not figure that out in the first place. Even us puny humans understand that.

put's it's signature in a mathematics formula
Why? Where? How? Which formula?


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Platform development
I noticed that sometimes the "Text" options work and sometimes they don't. This often occurs if making more than one reply in a thread. I find that I have to get out of the thread, go to another thread and then come back in order for it to work again. Almost like it needs to reboot or something. Is this normal or a glitch?
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@janesix
But we don't know what God wants.
How would you even know God exists? What evidence do you possess that has made you believe God exists in the first place?

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@Mopac
Supreme Being


It's right there in the definition you posted.
Did you not read my post or not understand it? Truth does not have God in the definition, God does not have truth in the definition. God is not truth, truth is not God. Please tell me you understood this?

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Can you tell the difference between these definitions?
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@Mopac
It is simply The Truth. It speaks for itself.

You don't know Truth so you are blind to what is evident.

You profess to believe in physics. You know what energy is. What happens to the whole universe if there is no energy? 

But it goes deeper than that even. The Ultimate Reality has all authority. If something doesn't exist in Truth, it doesn't exist.


Wow, you don't even bother to try and come up with an argument, you just repeat yourself over and over.
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@janesix
If God didn't want to be known, you're claim of experiencing God is definitely false.
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@Mopac
Yes, we understand truth, but unfortunately, your dictionary has let you down. Notice that God is NOT in the definition of truth and truth is not in the definition of God. Sorry, looks like God is not the truth according to YOUR standards.

Truth

- the quality or state of being true.
- that which is true or in accordance with fact
- a fact or belief that is accepted as true.

God

- the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
- a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
- an adored, admired, or influential person.
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For Stephen - Prophecy is Reasonable and Logical to Believe
EtrnlVw says:

Maybe you should go back and read the answers again or consider the fact that materialists don't know what consciousness is,
You are the one who doesn't know what consciousness is, YOU. In fact, you could never produce a single legitimate reference that would support anything you say about consciousness.
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Can you tell the difference between these definitions?
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@Mopac
When I say God, I mean the ultimate reality, and the dictionary backs me up.
By far and away, the weakest argument made yet.

You should win an award for that.

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I'm not convinced - why are you?
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@Outplayz
Again, this is if you are of the opinion that every single claim of the supernatural is a negative. Remember, technically only one needs to be true for there to be something to it.
Unfortunately, not one has ever been shown to be true, so there is no evidence to date, let alone proof.

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I'm not convinced - why are you?
EtrmVw claims:

In the case with God we have more than a couple of "delusional" claims by liars and far from it, and we have more testimonial and documented evidence for spirituality than any one could ever study in a lifetime.
No, there's actually a great deal more scientific documentation than there is for myths and superstitions.

There is no other single subject with such a vast array of observation, evidences, literature and experience/knowledge available.
Science has far more knowledge, observations and evidence than any hocus pocus you can conjur from God Worlds.

Again, we only rely on testimonial based evidence (as opposed to physical evidence) because of the NATURE of the Creator, the nature of souls, so it is not that anything is lacking, rather the nature of spirituality naturally eliminates the method of a materialistic study which leaves personal observation and experience.
So, you just believe whatever anyone else says about things that have never been shown to exist rather than understanding real things.

On top of that, everyone seems to ignore the fact this supposed absurd claim (which amounts to believing in gnomes) has been debated and considered by the most prominent philosophers and even scientific minded people for generations. That is due to the fact that the concept of a Creator is not comparable to believing in gnomes.
And now, Harry Potter, Star Wars and Lord of the Rings are far more popular, so they too must be real.
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The Problem with Atheists
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@3RU7AL
You keep making assertions and then repeating them as if they were true. I don't think you understand the concept of objectivity.


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@Mopac
If they had it their way, we would all be silenced.

No one is trying to silence you, but it would be nice if you didn't repeat the same thing over and over, that's just annoying.
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@janesix
Because you won't beleive unless you experience God for yourself. 
I doubt you have either. At least, I'm honest about it. I don't have to lie to myself.


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Why saying "God doesn't exist" is indefensible
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@Mopac
Look at you speaking for everyone.
Look at you speaking for no one.

You might as well be arguing that. the sun is made of ice.
You might as well preach somewhere else.
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Why saying "God doesn't exist" is indefensible
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@Mopac
There is nothing about this particular subject that can be debated.
This is a debate forum, why are you here if you have no intention of debating?

You would be better off confessing the truth.
You would be better off preaching elsewhere considering no one here accepts your claims, you are entirely alone with them. So, what's the point of you even being here?
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@janesix
Then, you haven't anything to complain about in regards to atheists.

It's no different than if I was trying to argue Leprechauns riding Unicorns in the Kentucky Derby. Is it futile to argue such things simply because others don't accept the argument? Clearly, the problem lies entirely in the formation of any argument for God's existence. They are all incredibly weak, pointless or just all out ridiculous.

So, if you think it;'s futile, better have a look at your argument then, most likely, it isn't valid. That's not any problem with atheists, the problem is with the argument.
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I'm not convinced - why are you?
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@Outplayz
I am being honest with myself
Not even remotely.

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@janesix
Like I said, it's futile to try to argue with an atheist about God.
That's just a lame excuse for not wanting to be honest with yourself. Probably a good thread question, "Why can't believers be honest with themselves"?


You prove the point of my thread.

And, you prove my point of not being honest with yourself about being mistaken, lying or delusional.  You haven't even bothered, just like you've never bothered to form an argument about God. That's three strikes against you.

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Why Didn't God Write the Bible?
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@PGA2.0
Such as current scientific observations, data, evidence and explanations. If you can't bothered to educate yourself on what's going on in this regard, you don't really have a position to opine on such things.
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The Problem with Atheists
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@3RU7AL
If a decision is free of influence, it is indistinguishable from random.
Sorry, that's not true. It looks like you didn't even bother to understand the definition I provided above. You just make up stuff as you go along.

Human experience is fundamentally subjective.
Repeating that doesn't make it any more true.
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I'm not convinced - why are you?
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@Outplayz
Those kind of assumptions usually if not always turn out true.

I understand you want to be special in that you have experiences no one else had, but if you can't even be honest with yourself, how do you expect to be honest with others?
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@janesix
Like I said, there is no way to convince atheists. I rest my case.
Since you can't show you're not lying, mistaken or delusional, I rest my case.

God has obviously decided to remain anonymous to some people. That's between you and God.
That's Special Pleading, which means you're either lying, mistaken or delusional. That's between you and you. If you can't be honest with yourself, then how can you be honest with others?

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I'm not convinced - why are you?
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@Outplayz
Even if out of the millions of claims
Suddenly, it's millions of claims? The problem with any number of claims is consistency, no two claims are alike, hence we can assume it's all in their heads.

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@janesix
Unless of course, those who claim to experience God are lying, mistaken or delusional. Can any of them show they are not?

The problem is not atheists or God, the problem is those who claim God but cannot demonstrate it. They are the problem.
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The Problem with Atheists
An expert in any field can usually make snap decisions based on their experience and training.

Experience and training is axiomatically considered "previous influence".
Strawman. No one said anything about experts in the field or training.

The fact that you are able to make a decision without planning ahead does not mean it is not influenced by previous events.

Nor, was it necessarily influenced by previous events. That's a wash.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here, but I'll grant you some slack.
It's quite simple, chemicals and their reactions with one another have been around for longer than we have, our discovery of it does not mean it wasn't here prior. That's absurd.

humans are fundamentally subjective
A claim you have yet to support, hence it's a false premise.

You seem to be suggesting that our universe is viewed identically by all observers throughout history and this is simply not the case.
Never said anything of the sort, those are your words.

Even science itself is subject to variation, change and interpretation.
So what.


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I'm not convinced - why are you?
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@Outplayz
You were the one who said 99.9% are either lying or mistaken. Things that exist, no matter what it is, aren't based on 0.1% of peoples claims. so yes, you are indeed mistaken. You're experiences could easily be delusion, which is more likely the cause.
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Why saying "God doesn't exist" is indefensible
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@Mopac
You have no concept how to debate, only preach, lie and waste our time.
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The Problem with Atheists
The Periodic Table existed long before humans walked the Earth, if it didn't, none of us would probably be here.

Next thing you'll be saying is the the universe didn't exist before someone came up with the idea of the universe.

Conscious decisions can happen in an instant, they don't need as much time as you claim.

My decisions, like anyone else, are based on whatever ones will decides at any given moment, despite anything that may or may not have occurred prior.

It is logically impossible to make a decision that is free from previous influence.
Yet, you fail miserably in trying to prove that.
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Why saying "God doesn't exist" is indefensible
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@Mopac
And, there you go again, putting words in mouth, saying things I never said. That's why you don't know how to debate.
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I'm not convinced - why are you?
and everyone knows it.
Yes, everyone knows you're wrong, that's why you have to constantly repeat yourself over and over with the same false claims, you're doing it on this thread alone. No one with a brain in their head agrees with you.

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I'm not convinced - why are you?
You don't know what evidence is and apparently can't read
I understand evidence just fine, you are the one who doesn't, you have made evidently clear by using religious testimonials as evidence for the existence of something. That is entirely false and is NEVER used as such.

The evidence required to validate the existence of something is hard evidence, physical objects, direct proof, a thing or things, which is exactly what the definition states. You have ignored all of that, so it clearly is you who can't read.

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Why saying "God doesn't exist" is indefensible
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@Mopac
I have no reason to confess such a thing.
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I'm not convinced - why are you?
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
A thing or set of things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment:
The means by which an allegation may be proven, such as oral testimony, documents, or physical objects.
broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion.[1] This support may be strong or weak. The strongest type of evidence is that which provides direct proof of the truth of an assertion.
In law, rules of evidence govern the types of evidence that are admissible in a legal proceeding. Types of legal evidence include testimony, documentary evidence,[2] and physical evidence.

The definitions referring to law are not used for validating the existence of something. As for the rest of the definition, you have ignored it.
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I'm not convinced - why are you?
Sorry, but testimonial evidence is an oral or written assertion offered in a court as a proof of the truth of what is being stated. It includes testimony and hearsay evidence.

Clearly, this is not evidence that can be used to validate the existence of something. Once again, you are failing at understanding the English language.


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Why saying "God doesn't exist" is indefensible
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@Mopac
You are lying because I never said any of those words. So, not only are you lying, you are deceiving others by putting words in my mouth. Seems being a believer in the Ultimate Reality also makes one very dishonest.
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The Problem with Atheists
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@3RU7AL
Random acts don't have decisions and choices made by humans, hence the word, "random". But I understand your problem with definitions, so I'll help you by providing one...

Random - made, done, happening, or chosen without method or conscious decision.

The Periodic Table exists with or without humans. If it didn't, we wouldn't even be here.

Human experience is fundamentally subjective. 
You can make that claim all you want. Validating it has been you're biggest problem which you have yet to achieve. Most likely, due to your inability to understand definitions.
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Why saying "God doesn't exist" is indefensible
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@Mopac
Yet your foundational position is that there is no truth

That's a childish lie that you tell everyone because you haven't the capacity to form an argument.
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