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@secularmerlin
No, what you're saying is that if I touch a hot stove, I am either doing so to willingly burn my hand or I've done so out of ignorance of not knowing that a stove is hot and can burn my hand. Which one is it?
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@PGA2.0
So, God chose to reveal Himself to humanity via human beings who were inspired by His Spirit to write what He wanted us to hear.
How do you know God revealed himself to humans? How do we know those humans weren't making it up themselves?
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@secularmerlin
That's not what I said.
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@eash
So. you're claiming the authors of the Bible were created before the Earth, before Adam and Eve, and they hung around in a void watching God creating the Universe and everything in it?this goes to the point i a making YHVH THEE CREATOR of everything had these men write their witnessing of HIM.
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@eash
But, if those people weren't created yet, how is it possible they observed God creating everything?but the bible gives us a people who witnessed OUR CREATOR AS A BEING WHO MADE everything.
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@secularmerlin
Of course, people change their minds, what's your point?
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@Mopac
I wouldn't call those who wrote the bible iron age savages.
Bronze Age savages, then?
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@eash
/ HE HAD them write text of their witnessing HIM. this appeance of their witnessing is there in the bible.
This is as close as anyone here who has attempted to answer the question.
Are you claiming each and every author of the Bible was writing what they observed? How did the authors observe God creating the Earth and everything on it? Why are there no verses from Adam and Eve?
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God can do anything except write a book, the most important book ever according to theists had to be left up to humans, which makes it appear that God had nothing to do with the Bible.
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@secularmerlin
Affect my mind how exactly?
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@secularmerlin
Like a star collapsing to a black hole?Anything that happens in real time in the observable universe is an event goldtop
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@Tradesecret
Adults represent things in metaphors and symbols all of the time.
Like adults, not like children.
except you don't like it.
That's the usual lame excuse believers use when they don't want to hear their beliefs criticized. So childish.
- the thing is at that time there were no thorns
LOL. Hilarious.
God wants us to use our brains. He says "come and reason with me".
Wrong on both counts.God wants mindless automatons worshiping and obeying him., you know, like most despots and dictators.
The point is - you want to eat the fruit to be able to decide what is right and wrong for yourself
Yes, that was adults do. Perhaps, you need to grow up.
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@Mopac
Only here to kill, steal, and destroy.
That's just paranoid delusion, no one is trying to harm you in any way.
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@Mopac
You can't say "The Ultimate Reality doesn't exist"You can't even actually deny my God
I don't know Ultimate Reality or your God. I actually know more about Leprechauns and Unicorns. They race in the Kentucky Derby, you know.
Is the Kentucky Derby the Ultimate Reality? Wow! I think I get it now.
Repent and confess The Truth, oh wicked one, it will be better for you in the end.
I think you might be channeling Elmer Gantry there.
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Hey Mopac, welcome to the thread. I was wandering if I might post something that was directed at me and have folks comment on it, whadda ya say?
Repent and confess The Truth, oh wicked one, it will be better for you in the end.
Is this still preaching? Or, something else? It's so confusing, this preaching thingy, not easy to maneuver round.
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@mustardness
Go back through this thread and read my posts if you want to know more. For starters.
Unfortunately ,ebuc, your posts are often incomprehensible gibberish, so there's not much to go on.
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@Mopac
Yeah, and those 3,000 stiff necked people would have killed everyone else
You're just making that up, there is no evidence of that whatsoever. Lying doesn't help your argument.
It might seem strange to you to stone someone to death for stealing
No, I wouldn't use the word "strange" to describe such behavior, instead, the words 'insane, selfish, arrogant, ignorant' and a host of other words come to mind. But, you're good with stoning others, yes, even if it was your own family?
you can't tell the difference between creation and the uncreated
Then, you can educate us all on that point and tell us exactly what is and what is not created?
Can you say, "The Ultimate Reality doesn't exist"?
Can you say, "Meaningless Words"?
even you know this is stupid.
Your claims? Yes, they are.
You'd be better off turning away from your wickedness
There's your problem, you seem to think that everyone who doesn't agree with you is wicked. That's why we know religion rots the brain and makes good people do bad things. You're a testament to that.
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@Plisken
I gave you a truth
Here's another truth to Moses from a loving God...
"I have seen these people," the LORD said to Moses, "and they are a stiff-necked people. Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them."
And, Moses thus reacts for his loving God...
Now when Moses saw that the people were out of control—for Aaron had let them get out of control to be a derision among their enemies—then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, “Whoever is for the LORD, come to me!” And all the sons of Levi gathered together to him. He said to them, “Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, ‘Every man of you put his sword upon his thigh, and go back and forth from gate to gate in the camp, and kill every man his brother, and every man his friend, and every man his neighbor.’ ” So the sons of Levi did as Moses instructed, and about three thousand men of the people fell that day.
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@Mopac
Not interested in getting into a tumble with another mad fumbler.
Yes, we know you're here to preach and not debate.
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@Mhykiel
Your statements, which you don't seem to realize, are suited towards children, not adults. So, they received all the attention they deserved. If you can't up your intellectual game, then why are you even here? Are you looking for children to talk with?discuss the statements made.
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@Mhykiel
I expected too much from you.
I'm so terribly sorry that your level of intellectual prowess is peaked with topics and ideas that are more suited to children, that's not my problem. The expectation is on you to raise your level of intellect to that of an adult if you're going to participate in discussions with adults. So far, you're failing miserably at that.
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@secularmerlin
Define and provide examples of "events"?
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@secularmerlin
Could you be more vague?
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@Mhykiel
And these responses to questions like ''how many Angel's fit on the head of a pin?'' Or ''What was before God made everything?'' Show some interesting mental gymnastics that later influenced scientific thoughts of time and space.
Mental gymnastics for mental midgets. perhaps, or goatherders that lived centuries ago.
And if questions like that lead to scientific thoughts, then mothers milk leads to heroin.
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God said you were wrong, too. How now brown cow.Don't believe me, believe God.
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@Outplayz
Yes I know, I wouldn't expect that considering you don't have anything to offer but the whiling of your childishly overactive imagination. You need to grow up before you can offer something of value other than pretending you're a divine spirit.i can't do anything for you
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@Mhykiel
That's okay, the damage it's done is reversible, although the losses have been great. Unfortunately, even still today it destroys minds wherever it goes. Hopefully, people will wake up someday.Religiosity is a very prevalent part of human cultures through out history.I might even argue that many intelligent people are religious and that the pondering, meditation upon theological concepts is like a work out for the brain creating schemas adaptable to the application of abstract constructs.
But, there's nothing to ponder, no concepts that engage the brain, there's only mythology and superstitions that were once relevant to the people who wrote them centuries ago, people who knew nothing of the world around them, were incapable of creating schemas and applying abstract concepts. You can't solve real world problems with ancient myths and superstitions.
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@Outplayz
That's like saying,"I'm still not convinced there's a monster hiding in my closet, but maybe there is"t unlike most other believers i am agnostic towards my beliefs
So if i think of myself as a super-human entity manifested into a mortal body... i'm religious?
Yes, childishly delusional, but without the religious part.
I believe i am a divine spirit...
That's childishly delusional with the religious part.
And i specifically remember the first time i heard about god
You don't consciously remember the many times you heard about God before that, but your subconscious remembered.
there is a supernatural reality
Sure, pal.
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@Outplayz
I don't define religious, its already been defined.
I don't get it since my belief is exclusive to only myself
Just like every other believer.
religion presupposes a group of people believing in the same
Nope, you can believe all by yourself and be religious.
organized religion...
That's where your beliefs originated.
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@secularmerlin
Cause and effect of what?
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@secularmerlin
Not able to answer that one, too vague.
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@Mopac
I do not need to prove that my beliefs reflect reality in anyway.
The don't reflect reality in anyway, that's pretty obvious.
That is not Christianity. Christianity teaches that everyone is wrong and only God is right
That's very closed minded, ignorant and arrogant. Have you been learning that from your God?
Everything about the Christian discipline is about becoming more honest.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha! That is hilarious on a biblical scale.
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@Mopac
I see a lot of causal forces here.
You see a great deal of things that simply aren't there.
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@Mopac
My will is dictated by my mind, like everyone else.
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@Outplayz
I'd be a billionaire if I had a dollar for every believer who said he wasn't religious. If it was true, there would literally be no religious people anywhere.
The problem is that you're religious but don't want to be tagged along with all the rest of the ugliness that hangs over religions like a dark cloud. Not that I blame you for that, but it's dishonest.
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@Mopac
We already understand Christian theology, what you offer is "Mopac" theology, you're own confused, meaningless version.All I have been doing since I joined this forum is express Christian theology
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@Plisken
God is one,
One what?
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@Mopac
Really, it's a waste of time debating with this miserable lot, because they don't really love the truth. I'm not really interested in these TRUE ATHEISTS. After all, telling them that The Truth is God doesn't mean anything to those who don't believe in truth.
But, you're not debating, you're not here to debate, you're only here to preach and what you preach is meaningless drivel.
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@Mopac
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.My God is The Ultimate Reality.
You learn by rote, don't you.
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@Mopac
You mean, everyone other than you.To you
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@Mopac
The will is the capacity to decide and have the intention to do something. Just because the laws of physics don't allow you to do whatever, no matter how ridiculous, you wanting to do so doesn't exclude the will to do so, that is free to use at any time.I can't jump to the moon and back, therefore free will is nonsense
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@Tradesecret
It is not the fruit which was the issue, it is the what it represented. God's wisdom or humanity.
Yes, that is very childish and immature, adults don't represent things that way. If they did, it would be to a five year old. Perhaps, that's for who the Bible was written?
Nakedness in a forest? I would not know. perhaps you could enlighten us?
You don't know? You've never been in a forest? Seriously? Go and spend time in a forest naked and you will very quickly understand how badly you need clothes. Clearly, Adam understood this but God didn't. God is a dummy.
Although it is true that God does get jealous - it is never over knowledge or wisdom, but rather faithfulness
Ah, so God is happiest when we don't use our brains, Gotcha. That would stand to reason if God was an imbecile who hated smarter people.
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Religion tends to breed fanatics which is why i am against it.
That's like a scientist saying he's against science.
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@Mopac
Everything has been determined, everything is known, everything is finished in The Ultimate Reality. That is what I believe.
Yet, you can no more demonstrate that any more than I can demonstrate Leprechauns riding Unicorns in the Kentucky Derby.
Believe whatever you want, it's meaningless and pointless nonsense.
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@Tradesecret
You mean, what would the reaction be if two grown adults were told that eating fruit from a specific tree gives one the knowledge of good and evil?So the question really is not about them becoming knowing these things - it is something else.
They would probably think it childish, laughable and very ignorant as would any adult.
The first act of real wisdom is "I am naked, please hide me".
Have you ever tried sitting down in a forest naked? Grown adults need clothes to live in a forest.
I personally take the view that what happened here is not about them starting to understand good and evil - but in the manner in which it makes them like God.
No, they were just smarter than God and God was jealous.
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