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@ILikePie5
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@Sidewalker
And currently, 70% of Republicans believe the big lie.
And apparently, a good number of Democrats do too judging from the predictions of the Nov elections.
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@Sidewalker
Alt facts are the facts that the left cannot debunk, but can censor.
Well, before the left owned Twitter anyway.
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The data does suggest that ultrarightists are the most violent extremists. But inflating the scope of the threat is a disservice.
You may wonder why it's worth reporting lower numbers of extremist violence than have been widely reported elsewhere. You may be worried that it risks downplaying the threat, or somehow encouraging the public to not be concerned.
On the contrary. Violent extremists are inspired by each other, and the scope of their violence is often used as a recruiting tool. Inflating the overall statistics could embolden extremists who want the public to be terrorized by the seeming scope and force of their violence.
Facts matter and context matters, and how those facts are disseminated matters.
Most people probably don't know that this big scary number is inflated by the fact that white supremacists are typically violent criminals and most of their violence is based on criminality, not ideology.
By using an overbroad definition of "extremist violence" and counting incidents that were not directly motivated by politics or bigotry, the ADL does a disservice to anyone trying to accurately report on these issues. It's not dissimilar to ultranationalists cherry-picking statistics regarding violence perpetrated by undocumented immigrants. The bigger the number, the more likely the public is to be cowed by a sense of dread.
The ADL's statistic that ultrarightists commit nearly three-quarters of all "extremist violence" has been so widely cited it's now ubiquitous. And as I found, they do commit the most violence motivated by their extremism. The ADL argues that to not include non-ideological violence in its overall numbers would downplay the threat posed by extremists. But by not promoting statistics that make a clear distinction between ideological and non-ideological violence, it undermines trust in the data itself.
When potentially overbroad or misleading data cements itself into the public consciousness, bad things can happen.
Overblown statistics about inner-city crime, drugs, and the threat of Islamist terrorism have all led to over-correcting policies that have ultimately hurt the most vulnerable populations through over-incarceration, zero tolerance, and the blanket suspicion of mass surveillance.
Those who relied on such exaggerated numbers surely had their hearts in the right place and felt compelled to take action. There's also the psychic effect to consider on a public bombarded with terrifyingly outsized statistics and broadly drawn narratives lacking the appropriate context and nuance.
That again is why it's crucial not to over-amplify the threats by using overbroad figures for the overall number of extremist violence. The scrutiny here is not to downplay the threat of extremists or their inherent violence. They do pose a legitimate threat. But given the vast disparity between the numbers the ADL has disseminated and the numbers which we've provided with greater context, it is a conversation worth having.
The ADL doesn't need to make hate-related violence seem more prevalent than it actually is, when the truth is already disturbing enough.
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If you limit the definition of "extremist incidents" to "incidents motivated by extremist views where violence actually occurs, is attempted, or is substantially plotted," then the numbers drop significantly.
And if you consider only incidents that either are classified as hate crimes or terrorism by law, or were described as having been motivated by extremist views by the press — as most people likely do when they think of "extremist violence" — just 58% of the incidents cited by the ADL fit that definition.
To be sure, the ADL's most promoted and reported statistic — ultrarightist groups accounting for a disproportionate number of hate crimes and acts of terror — still holds up.
What's of concern is the seeming inflation of the overall numbers under the vaguely defined umbrella of "extremist incidents" — by including crimes that are not targeted at minorities — which make extremists appear to be more pervasive than they would otherwise be, with greater context.
It's ultimately an issue of reporting. Complicated issues aren't easy to distill in perfectly formed nuggets, whether they come from a well-respected advocacy organization's press releases or a news organization's headlines.
As I found, it's not an easy job to perfectly analyze hundreds of incidents. This is not to imply the ADL has engaged in bad-faith efforts. But in dealing with such sensitive issues, adding as much context as possible is vital to a greater public understanding of the issue.
An investigation of the ADL's 'extremist incidents' data
With the assistance of Insider reporters and a data analyst, I investigated the data the ADL used to make its H.E.A.T. map, an interactive tool tracking the locations of "all incidents of extremism or anti-Semitism in the United States," covering everything from anti-Semitic graffiti to racist violence to domestic terrorism.
According to the ADL's site, the map was created using "data points extracted from information sources including news and media reports, government documents (including police reports), victim reports, extremist-related sources, Center on Extremism investigations."
On several occasions, I reached out to the ADL for clarification on its criteria. In an email, the ADL directed me to the H.E.A.T. map's frequently-asked-questions page, which does not fully address my questions. But in its 2018 report on extremist violence, the ADL explained: "Extreme causes often attract adherents with violent tendencies—tendencies that are reflected not only in the violence that adherents commit for their cause, but also the violence they commit against others—including rivals, spouses, children and acquaintances."
Reviewing the citations of each incident defined as "Extremist Murders," "Terrorist Plot & Attacks," and "Extremist/Police Shootouts" from 2009-2018 on the ADL's H.E.A.T. map as a starting point, my colleagues and I explored over 500 cases through news reports, law-enforcement announcements, and court documents. The investigation is solely focused on "extremist violence," which we defined as incidents where police reports, court documents, or news articles presented evidence that the incidents were motivated by extremist viewpoints.
The actual number of violent extremist incidents — if defining such crimes as being motivated by bigotry or politics — is much smaller than the ADL's oft-reported overall number.
Many of the ADL's 'extremist incidents' are not motivated by bigotry or politics. They're often extremists killing other extremists.
In several cases I examined, it was clear that while the person or people involved might have ties to extremist groups or hold extremist views, the crimes committed by these people that were classified by the ADL as extremist incidents were not targeting protected identity groups. These would likely be the "non-ideological" crimes the ADL says it includes in its tracking of extremist incidents.
For example, if a methamphetamine dealer who happens to be a member of a racist extremist group kills a rival dealer, the ADL may consider that an "extremist killing." The same seems to be true where white supremacists kill rival white supremacists, or even their own allies they fear are police informants.
There are also cases that defy classification. For example, how does one appropriately classify the case of the former neo-Nazi who killed his roommates for making fun of his newfound Muslim faith? Can this act be properly classified as a hate crime or terrorism?
What appears true — regardless of the definition used to cover extremist incidents — is the theme that emerges from the ADL data: Extremists of all political and prejudiced varieties are typically young men with a history of violence and criminality, often with pronounced mental and emotional issues.
But by painting its findings with such a broad stroke, the ADL data might lead some to conclude that there are significantly more hate crimes and terrorism in the US than actually transpire.
Based on the incidents cited by the ADL, in most years, extremists are just as likely to kill each other, their criminal associates, or their family members as they are to kill people in protected identity groups.
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White supremacists are bigoted and dangerous. But anyone serious about protecting Jewish and American lives must also pay attention to and not ignore or downplay equally or more severe threats from other quarters. We were recently reminded of this when an Islamist took hostages at the Colleyville synagogue and a Black Lives Matter (BLM) activist attempted to assassinate a Jewish mayoral candidate.
Yet, the Anti-Defamation League’s (ADL) recent report on Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2021 ignores or downplays deadly extremism from non-white extremists, and then touts misleading conclusions that “white supremacists killed more people in 2021 than any other type of extremist,” and that “most of the murders (26 of 29) were committed by right-wing extremists.”
Egregiously, the ADL’s report never mentioned the worst extremist mass murder in 2021, perpetrated by Black Nationalist, BLM-sympathizing, antisemite Darrell Brooks. Brooks drove an SUV into a Christmas parade in Waukesha, Wisconsin, zig-zagging to hit as many people as possible, killing six innocent victims (all white, including an eight-year-old child) and wounding another 62 innocent people.
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The OP of this thread is clearly racist toward blacks. Everyone knows Blacks are 12 percent of the population and also CLEARLY only commit 12 percent of the murders. Any statistic drawn from such a huge robust sample as 29 murders in a year that denies this clear fact and inflates this number can only be presented through the lens of racial hatred.
And is also probably literally Hitler., as every educated person knows.
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This thread is literally Hitler.
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@Wylted
You really have to wonder if WAPO is secretly supporting Trump given that they only counted to 30,000 misleading statements and then just stopped there.
A person who is most certainly literally Hitler should have much more than 30,000 misleading statements.
I say we burn the WAPO down for being a threat to democracy by not working hard enough to stop Hitler.
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@PREZ-HILTON
He is only up by 4-5 points on predictit.
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@thett3
Also, leftists are the ones shaming and intimidating white people for having the audacity to complain about….being denied medical care and disaster relief aid on the basis of race.
Oh comeon, lets be honest here, they also shame black people for having the audacity to complain about policies based on skin color, including Justice Thomas. Leftists don't actually care about the sanctity skin color if it threatens their power or ideology.
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@thett3
Most of the things Biden says ire incomprehensible and easy to dismiss as whimsical streams of consciousness, but on this issue, Biden has repeated over and over his condescending concerns for a race he sees as inferior and requiring government intervention for equity based on the color of skin.
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“poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids,”
-A President of the USA
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@thett3
I think Zed is caught in a time-loop where the only nationalistic supremacy on the entire globe is white supremacy, which is also no more egregious than the black denigration of low expectations such as voter ID, plane tickets, and access to government funded health solutions.
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I have been warning you guys repeatedly about industrializing "fact checkers" instead of having people think for themselves.
Well now the nightmare is here as conservatives now hold the megaphone.
Can's say I didn't warn you guys.
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Is Thomas suggesting that having a monolithic student body would produce more well rounded and graduates with broader wisdom?
Only if they want to learn that the color of your skin does not matter.
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@thett3
Clarence Thomas:
" I have heard the word Diversity quite a few times and it seems to mean everything for everyone"
"I would like to hear what the educational benefits of diversity would be"
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@thett3
What do you think about the SCOTUS about to declare affirmative action policies unconstitutional?
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I agree, this doesn't look anything near what white supremacy is supposed to look like. Kinda like how the males are still getting shafted like they always have been historically under a 'patriarchy"
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The NewsGuard Advisory Board includes people from agencies known for producing false news and opponents of organized educators, and many studies show that critical news literacy is more effective than an arbitrary label approach.
There are also concerns over pupil exploitation through data mining
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@Public-Choice
I think wiki says the French have a heavy investment in it, not Gates.
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You can legislate against price gouging
It's not price gouging if the price reflects the actual low supply of goods. Legislation that tries to artificially set prices and price fix as Jimmy Carter and Nixon tried to do can have terrible effects on future supplies of goods. Anyone who has studied price fixing on housing knows this.
and mandate production of oil and other essential products in short supply
So become China. No Thanks. Some people want to make America great again instead.
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You can increase supply.
Not by raising taxes. The inflation reduction tax was a massive tax bill which wouldn't be so bad if it didn't also include spending far above CBO estimates for tax revenue which won't be very high in a recession. More unfunded spending means less value of the dollar as the government continues to print money to cover the difference.
You can raise interest rates.
Yes, to trigger a recession that lowers supply. That's basic economics.
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He was playing to racist tropes that a black man can’t figure out airline fees,overdraft fees, or voter ID, which is what many racists in America wanted to believe.
What president was that again?
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@thett3
You can make 60 cents for every 40 cents you bet right now if you bet on the underdog Warnock.
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@thett3
48-52 is really close to 47-53.
Considering you are not putting your own money on the line like the members on predictit.
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@thett3
Predictit has the Senate at 47-53 at the moment.
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@thett3
Predictit markets have been far more accurate than 538. They even got the Biden win right.
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The Inflation Reduction Act sent a lot of money to people who will never vote for him.
Which actually caused inflation to rise since you can only reduce inflation with spending cuts in a recession.
Even Democrats won't vote for increases in Inflation.
@redwave
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@zedvictor4
My point is that your European ethnocentrism wrongly attributes white Republicans (a really tiny population on the globe relatively) as having a monopoly on nationalism.
But like I said, that's the whole point of being ethnocentric and myopic. It justifies simplified and narrow opinions.
Not sure what you are driving at with the first bit of your reply.
So someone who isn't full tilt ethnocentric would easily and quickly understand the references to 2 prominent Asian nations. That's why you are not sure. A more nuanced thinker should have no problems "getting it"
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@PREZ-HILTON
They can now since they own Twitter.
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@Athias
The real plague is big Pharma masquerading as a Saint.
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@PREZ-HILTON
When Democrats say that Republicans lie they usually mean "we don't like that opinion so it is a lie"
This is why you have nonsense terms like "mostly true" or "partly true" on "fact check" sites.
An actual fact checking site would have 2 and ONLY 2 ways to describe a fact.
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@zedvictor4
Let's face it, extreme Republicanism is still all about the fear of change from a "white" dominated Christian society to a multicultural egalitarian society.And I use the term "white" very loosely.Perhaps I should say Old European.
The two most nationalistic nations on the planet that also are the most populous have a population of less than 1 percent of whites and also are not European.
White Europeans usually think they own everything, so we can't blame you for you opinion.
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Meanwhile, the Whitehouse has been deleting tweets caught as political lies..... what's going on here!
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@thett3
Those are some interesting comments. Obama seems forever lost in time in the world he ruled where neocons and neolibs played their traditional predictable roles. I believe he doesn't know what the Republicans stand for anymore and I also believe him when he says he doesn't like what the Democrat party is turning into either.
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@thett3
The same man "convinced" Wasserman to resign.
I watched coverage of a recent rally with the man. People came out to protest his support for the Ukraine war and protested the risks of a nuclear war. The man chastised them and told them they were deflecting from the "real issues"
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@thett3
Just in case you forgot since it was 6 years ago. The DNC fully admitted their 2016 primary was rigged causing Debbie Wassermann Schultz to step down.
So much for "protecting democracy"
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@RationalMadman
You are not fooling me with your bullshit propaganda. The poor could not get basic healthcare before it. They still struggle.
I am fairly certain the Hospital and Pharma lobbies that wrote the legislation do not really care what happens to the poor.
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Graham is literally Hitler too?
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@Public-Choice
Fun fact, the Affordable Care Act was written by pharmaceutical and hospital lobbyists, not legislators.
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@thett3
I would absolutely support a generic establishment democrat over a true believer any day of the week. The leaders of the Democratic Party when faced with this choice in reverse chose to prop up true believers from the worst segments of the GOP
Right...this is the reaction when faced with the Manchins and Sinemas. Double down on divisiveness instead of even entertaining the notion that the overton window desperately needs a course correction. I honestly would vote for a Manchin over an Oz. The Democrats know that too.
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Yeah the democrats spent tens of millions of dollars supporting “election denier” Republicans in primaries. I don’t want to hear about “threats to democracy” from them ever again
Why do I really need to worry about one-off Russian interference in elections when the Democrats sabotage primary elections at every opportunity? I'm sure the Republicans do it too, I just have not seen reports of the RNC funding opposition primaries as much.
I'm not sure democracy can survive the kind of election meddling that installs people in opposition primaries based on how much money is spent solely to thwart the choices of the voters. Some serious election finance reform has to happen before everyone sees through the charade the Oligarchs operate under.
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Right now, combating inflation is, in fact, more important. I support aggressive Fed rate hikes, as well as deficit reduction, in efforts to get inflation down.
This is the academic solution. The problem is, practically speaking, that in most democracies reducing the deficit means raising taxes instead of cutting government expenditures, which makes the production and job problems worse. Austerity measures are the exception, not the rule.
While market corrections on the economy are painful, government corrections to economy imbalances are far worse.
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@ILikePie5
I wonder just how much money the Dems secretly funneled to Oz to get him up there. Primaries are so corrupt this year.
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@Shila
low employment which leads to a recession.
Recessions cause low employment. Recessions happen when Government or other factors reduce productivity.
Inflation happens when government devalues money by spending more on stuff that cannot be paid for with production.
High employment does not mean more production. The Soviet Union boasted full employment with very low productivity.
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@bmdrocks21
Thett doesn't normally "own the libs" but I guess every man has a breaking point.
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