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@drafterman
So he solidly gets a check in the "Fascist" column for this.
I find it mildly funny that you quoted an excerpt about the censorship of free speech and the destruction of all political opposition, but ascribe none of it to Trump. Trump has put none of his opposition in jail, nor has he suppressed any free speech of any platform. Those attributes go to another set of people. Nevertheless, I would never call Adam Schiff a fascist simply for suppressing free speech or imprisoning political opposition. That would be a false equivalency. You can certainly be a tyrant without being a fascist.
to try and overturn the fair and proper election of....
Unfortunately, since 2016, this has been the acceptable course of presidential elections, and it seems this tradition won't die any time soon.
And, lastly, he has done everything in his power.
And now you have made the largest equivalency mistake here. Trump has little power right now and arguably had little power over the last 4 years to do anything substantial to help or hurt the country thanks to Congress. Barring an all-out civil war, Trump is most certainly going to be gone in 7 days and DC will most likely operate in exactly the same way they did before Trump, promoting the very same political environment that spawned Trump.
While this might be all fun speculation of what might happen, it's extremely likely that in 7 days, America will operate in a post-Trump world and the stock markets reflect that.
This begs the question, will it be permissible for ex-Trump supporters to promote democratic Nationalism with a different candidate without being labeled as fascists by crony media?
My prediction is absolutely no considering the recent behavior of crony media.
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@drafterman
What part of post 6 do you disagree with assuming you disagree at all, which would be a mistake on my part.
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@zedvictor4
Stupid people, with too much time on their hands and nothing better to do....Except get themselves shot.
To be fair, they might have been expecting to get tear-gassed and then get a windfall settlement in court for police abuse.
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@drafterman
What would count as fascism in your opinion?
Probably a similar interpretation of the word "racist" today.
Anything that makes your spidey sense tingle.
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@zedvictor4
And it's not the puppet, but the string pullers that you need to consider.
Sometimes, it takes 535 Tyrants to run a large country. Lord knows Lenin had his delegation.
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@fauxlaw
I guess to a Marxist, every nail is a fascist.
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@fauxlaw
We are seeing a return to nationalism in Europe and the United States because it is not clear to many that internationalism, as followed since World War II, benefits them any longer. They may be right or wrong, but to claim that fascism is sweeping Europe and the United States raises the question of whether those who say this understand the principles of fascism or the intimate connection between nationalism and liberal democracy. People can obviously choose democratic nationalism without the tyranny of a dictator.
Or maybe it's not so obvious to a Marxist still smarting from the casualties of fascism 80 years ago.
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@bmdrocks21
Recently, there have been a number of articles and statements asserting that fascism is rising in Europe and that Donald Trump is an American example of fascism. This is a misrepresentation of a very real phenomenon. The nation-state is reasserting itself as the primary vehicle of political life. Multinational institutions like the European Union and multilateral trade treaties are being challenged because they are seen by some as not being in the national interest. The charge of a rise in fascism derives from a profound misunderstanding of what fascism is. It is also an attempt to discredit the resurgence of nationalism and to defend the multinational systems that have dominated the West since World War II.
Nationalism is the core of the Enlightenment’s notion of liberal democracy. It asserts that the multinational dynasties that ruled autocratically denied basic human rights. Among these was the right to national self-determination and the right of citizens to decide what was in the national interest. The Enlightenment feared tyranny and saw the multinational empires dominating Europe as the essence of tyranny. Destroying them meant replacing them with nation-states. The American and French revolutions were both nationalist risings, as were the nationalist risings that swept Europe in 1848. Liberal revolutions were by definition nationalist because they were risings against multinational empires.
Fascism differs from nationalism in two profound ways. First, self-determination was not considered a universal right by fascists. Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, and Francisco Franco, to mention three obvious fascists, only endorsed nationalism for Germany, Italy, and Spain. The rights of other nations to a nation-state of their own were at best unclear to the fascists. In a very real sense, Hitler and Mussolini believed in multinationalism, albeit with other nations submitting to their will. Fascism in its historical form was an assault on the right of nations to pursue their self-interest and an elevation of the fascists’ right to pursue it based on an assertion of their nations’ inherent superiority and right to rule.
But the more profound difference was the conception of internal governance. Liberal nationalism accepted that the right to hold power was subject to explicit and periodic selection of the leaders by the people. How this was done varied. The American system is very different from the British, but the core principles remain the same. It also requires that opponents of the elected have the right to speak out against them and to organize parties to challenge them in the future. Most importantly, it affirms that the people have the right to govern themselves through these mechanisms and that those elected to lead must govern in the people’s name. Leaders must also be permitted to govern and extra-legal means cannot be used to paralyze the government, any more than the government has the right to suppress dissent.
Fascism asserts that Hitler or Mussolini represent the people but are not answerable to them. The core of fascism is the idea of the dictator, who emerges through his own will. He cannot be challenged without betraying the people. Therefore, free speech and opposition parties are banned and those who attempt to oppose the regime are treated as criminals. Fascism without the dictator, without the elimination of elections, without suppression of free speech and the right to assemble, isn’t fascism.
Arguing that being part of the European Union is not in the British interest, that NATO has outlived its usefulness, that protectionist policies or anti-immigration policies are desirable is not fascist. These ideas have no connection to fascism whatsoever. They are far more closely linked to traditional liberal democracy. They represent the reassertion of the foundation of liberal democracy, which is the self-governing nation-state. It is the foundation of the United Nations, whose members are nation-states, and where the right to national self-determination is fundamental.
Liberal democracy does not dictate whether a nation should be a member of a multinational organization, adopt free trade policies or protectionism, or welcome or exclude immigrants. These are decisions to be made by the people – or more precisely, by the representatives they select. The choices may be wise, unwise or even unjust. However, the power to make these choices rests, in a liberal democracy, in the hands of the citizens.
What we are seeing is the rise of the nation-state against the will of multinational organizations and agreements. There are serious questions about membership in the EU, NATO, and trade agreements, and equally about the right to control borders. Reasonable people can disagree, and it is the political process of each nation that retains the power to determine shifts in policy. There is no guarantee that the citizenry will be wise, but that cuts both ways and in every direction.
The current rise of nationalism in Europe is the result of European institutions’ failure to function effectively. Eight years after 2008, Europe still has not solved its economic problems. A year after the massive influx of refugees in Europe, there is still no coherent and effective policy to address the issue. Given this, it would be irresponsible for citizens and leaders not to raise questions as to whether they should remain in the EU or follow its dictates. Similarly, there is no reason for Donald Trump not to challenge the idea that free trade is always advantageous, or to question NATO. However obnoxious his style and however confusing his presentation, he is asking questions that must be asked.
In the 1950s, the McCarthyites charged anyone they didn’t like with being communists. Today, those who disapprove of the challengers of the current system call them fascists. Now, some of the opponents of the EU or immigration may really be fascists. But the hurdle for being a fascist is quite high. Fascism is far more than racism, tinkering with the judiciary, or staging a violent demonstration. Real fascism consisted of Nazi Germany’s “leader principle” – which dictated absolute obedience to the Führer, whose authority was understood to be above the law.
We are seeing a return to nationalism in Europe and the United States because it is not clear to many that internationalism, as followed since World War II, benefits them any longer. They may be right or wrong, but to claim that fascism is sweeping Europe and the United States raises the question of whether those who say this understand the principles of fascism or the intimate connection between nationalism and liberal democracy. People can obviously choose democratic nationalism without the tyranny of a dictator.
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@Jasmine
Because fascism is seen as equivalent to nationalism.
So the very idea that America should be first or that a person identifies themselves as belonging to the American tribe is seen as being Fascist.
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@fauxlaw
This constitutional article could not be invoked at a better time in American history when public trust in elections is at an all-time high.
The inevitable mistrust in the election process using technicalities to eliminate political opposition won't have a noticeable effect on the trust of the public in traditional addressing grievances through elections.
The now new and improved system of addressing grievances through the use of constitutional fiats by the elites in DC will inspire further public confidence in all established systems to remove political opposition.
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@drafterman
Because elections are not how China and Russia eliminate political opposition.
Would you like to learn more?
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I fail to see how using the rules we have democratically agreed upon makes us like China and Russia. Can you explain
Are you really saying elections are the only way to eliminate political opposition in America? Shocking.
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@drafterman
Always time for a first though when elections are not enough to eliminate political opposition.
Just don't pretend it's an established tradition.
Think of all the lives saved if Democrats could have just reversed the 1860 election results. Shoulda invoked the clause there for sure. Lincoln the insurrectionist.
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@drafterman
established Constitutional mechanisms?
the 4th section of the 25th amendment has never been used in the entire history of American politics.
Always time for a first though when elections are not enough to eliminate political opposition.
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@fauxlaw
Looks like America has learned all she can from China and Russia how to eliminate political opposition.
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I brought up my point and you attempted (multiple times) to deflect.
Okay, you probably were not taught this at school, but when you charge a person with bad points and they ask you which points?
that is not "deflection"
But if you insist on calling that deflection, I am going to continue to assume you are a mouth breather without a semblance of critical thinking skills.
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@HistoryBuff
But by all means, let's get back to your point that I make bad points, let's just accept that as fact without any critical discussion.
This is exactly what this thread is about. The complete lack of any discussion whatsoever whether it is intentional or genetically impossible.
And I am not trying to single you out HB
There are millions of Americans walking around thinking "hurr durr Fox bad" or "hurr durr CNN bad" and that's the end of the thought process/discussion. That's not enlightenment or critical thinking.
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@HistoryBuff
Called out for what? You say I make bad points and can't name a single fucking one.
That isn't even a lack of critical thought, it's a lack of a point altogether!
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@HistoryBuff
I am pointing out that you personally spew stories on here that have no basis in reality.
You can't name anything so stop with the bullshit.
You're just a mouthbreather with an axe to grind. Not a particularly special species of sheep.
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@HistoryBuff
What's the last book you read? What is the book you are currently reading?
If you have to take more than 30 seconds to answer that, you are one of the sheep this thread is talking about.
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@HistoryBuff
ok. i pointed out how you personally parrot bullshit stories
This is a ridiculous assertation without any specifics and will be regarded as such. Classic mouthbreather with an axe to grind.
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@HistoryBuff
top 10 fake news stories, from bad to worse:
10. RT Hacked Into and Took Over C-SPAN (Fortune)
9. Russian Hackers Invaded the U.S. Electricity Grid to Deny Vermonters Heat During the Winter (WashPost)
8. A New, Deranged, Anonymous Group Declares Mainstream Political Sites on the Left and Right to be Russian Propaganda Outlets and WashPost Touts its Report to Claim Massive Kremlin Infiltration of the Internet (WashPost)
7. Trump Aide Anthony Scaramucci is Involved in a Russian Hedge Fund Under Senate Investigation (CNN)
6. Russia Attacked U.S. “Diplomats” (i.e. Spies) at the Cuban Embassy Using a Super-Sophisticated Sonic Microwave Weapon (NBC/MSNBC/CIA)
5. Trump Created a Secret Internet Server to Covertly Communicate with a Russian Bank (Slate)
4. Paul Manafort Visited Julian Assange Three Times in the Ecuadorian Embassy and Nobody Noticed (Guardian/Luke Harding)
3. CNN Explicitly Lied About Lanny Davis Being Its Source – For a Story Whose Substance Was Also False: Cohen Would Testify that Trump Knew in Advance About the Trump Tower Meeting (CNN)
2. Robert Mueller Possesses Internal Emails and Witness Interviews Proving Trump Directed Cohen to Lie to Congress (BuzzFeed)
1. Donald Trump Jr. Was Offered Advanced Access to the WikiLeaks Email Archive (CNN/MSNBC)
And the grand turkey of them all.
Now I'm not going to sit and defend Fox because they are also part of the crony corporate media complex as controlled opposition.
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"
But dayum, you have to be that special type of non-critically thinking retard to look at all these and actually be surprised.
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@HistoryBuff
Most of your information about Fox is probably second-hand hearsay, so I wouldn't trust anything you ascribe to Fox unless you have actual source links.
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@drafterman
What did you base this opinion on?
Safe spaces. No unauthorized dissent allowed.
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@HistoryBuff
Which talking point?
Maybe this point?
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@HistoryBuff
Even a broken clock like Fox is right twice a day.
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@drafterman
Man Congress hasn't been fast on a goddamn thing in your lifetime or mine.
They have a certain process they go through for each thing they have to vote on. That process includes committee discussion, floor debate, rebuttal, voting, maybe more discussion, maybe more voting. ONE bill that comes before Congress may have fifty or more things packed in it so EACH thing in the bill has to be discussed and debated and/or sent to committee and each Congressperson has to decide how they feel about each item on the Bill then decide which are most important and which are less. Then they have to decide which item on the Bill is important enough to vote for or against even though their vote may go against how they feel about other things on the Bill. And Congress may have a hundred Bills in the queue on any given day. This year so far, in just two months, Congress has had nearly 5000 Bills before it. Most of those Bills had multiple items on them to discuss, debate, and vote on. One bill can take hours or days. There are 535 voting members in Congress. It takes time for 535 people to make up their minds and vote, even with computers. Esp when all members are not always together at the same time for various reasons like the scamdemic lockdowns. And That's just for each item.
Most Congresspeople abstain or worse, vote without even looking at the legislation, relying on their constituents to read the laws they pass for them.
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@drafterman
Also, the only president to be impeached while not being president.
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@Tradesecret
Why is there no serious critical thinking any more?
Because people with power control public education today to control those without it.
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@Danielle
“Liberals used to be funny. They edited magazines like National Lampoon. They had a claim on cool. Then something happened. They became sour and earnest and neurotic about secondhand smoke. The Democratic party became the party of the uptight establishment, the that’s-not-funny-young-man party, the party of no fun.”
-Tucker tha God
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@Danielle
This is why you can't trust the media.
You can trust crony media. The powerful know the truth.
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@Danielle
Tucker Carlson's briefcase is the most safe and reliable source of all.
Correct. He has donated plenty to crony private media.
It's absolutely authorized information.
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@ILikePie5
Whether in actual fact the policy of the boot-on-the-face can go on indefinitely seems doubtful. My own belief is that the ruling oligarchy will find less arduous and wasteful ways of governing and of satisfying its lust for power. Within the next generation, I believe that the world's rulers will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than tear gas and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging and kicking them into obedience.
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@Danielle
How utterly brave of you in this brave new world.
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@Danielle
Trump who?
I'll have to remind you that the Electoral College has confirmed Joe Biden as President-Elect.
Authoritative sources are the most reliable (and safe) sources.
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@Danielle
You really can't trust media these days unless they have made the proper political tributes to DC, or China.
I can get you a comprehensive list if you are afraid of being manipulated by unapproved sources.
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Thank god we have crony private business to make sure we get the correct information about the world.
What an amazing country we live in today.
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@Danielle
Well said comrade.
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@ebuc
Capital Hill police and do plenty if there confronted with people of color
Like using non-lethal means to disperse a crowd?
Someone should have informed the woman that died in the Capitol Building that being born with black skin makes you bulletproof to lethal resistance from DC police.
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@TheUnderdog
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@ebuc
Where there is a will there is a way.
Lol, police can't do shit.
To stop public shitting.
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@Castin
You should get some beauty rest.
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@HistoryBuff
So to you any riot is terrorism? Is that the argument you are making?
You should consult with proper authoritative sources to clarify what a terrorist is.
Asking people for opinions is dangerous right now.
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@Conway
Really, you don't remember the reporter saying how peaceful everything was while there stuff burning in the background?I remember one story years ago where people were armed and interacted peacefully with the national guard to protect a gas station.
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@ILikePie5
I’m a Bolshevik guys.
Careful now, the thing that passes for history among buffs is what authority deems proper history.
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@ILikePie5
It's a dangerous time my friend. It's best that you are seen as trusting authority right now.
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@n8nrgmi
u keep deflecting. it doesn't make it ok for parler to do bad, just because liberals do bad.
Bad is an ambiguous term defined solely by Authority.
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@ILikePie5
Is it ok for Democrats to tell people to cause unrest in the streets?
That is what Democracy looks like according to Authoritative sources.
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