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@Greyparrot
Especially among those radical right wing Telemundo veiwers.
we are talking about twitter. Anyone can answer them. So if they get shared around right wing groups, then the results get horribly skewed. Or if one person just gets a bunch of bots to answer. Twitter polls mean nothing.
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@ILikePie5
You have any other logical conclusion for how his poll numbers went up?
That's not what we were discussing. There could be lots of reasons for that. You said he won the debate. You then provided evidence that most people think he lost. You have disproven your own point and are now moving the goal post.
There have only been 3 polls done of national percentage since the end of the debate. One is by CNBC which shows no cross tabs. Others two (IBD and USC) are the ones I linked that both showed Trump gaining in percentages nationally.
ok. so what? two polls are not a trend. And even if there were a trend, it could be for lots of reasons. You have provided proof that trump lost the debate. So it doesn't seem to be about that.
I’m saying it balances out in favor of Democrats because of them vastly outnumbering conservatives.
lol no, no it doesn't. Creating a system where anyone can cheat and throw it off does not "balance it out". It guarantees that it will never be balanced out and no one should take it seriously.
Are you saying Democrats hit the Trump button?
i'm saying a whole lot more trump cultists answered that poll than their size of the real population. Probably because it got spread around some right wing groups. No one should take twitter polls seriously.
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@ILikePie5
Logically speaking his support should’ve decreased then right? Just proves my point of the mental gymnastics pollsters go through to justify something.
no, it just shows your mental gymnastics. You link to a poll that shows everyone thinks trump lost and somehow think you are proving he won. That is nuts.
Maybe you want to go look at that model again. It incorporates polls from dates prior to the debate.
you are linking one poll from one pollster. There are always outlier polls so taking one poll as the absolute truth (in this case just because you like the narrative you can use it for) is a very flawed way to look at things. You are picking and choosing data points to reinforce what you want the truth to be rather than looking at the data points to try to figure out what the truth is.
Left wing radicals can do the same thing though. Their circles are much more larger than conservatives. If anything it favor liberals cause of their larger usage.
of course they can. but you are only reinforcing my point. Twitter polls are not reliable. Anyone can skew them if they feel like it. So why would anyone take them seriously?
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@Greyparrot
Hispanics are not trolls.
i never said they were. but there is no way to know who answered that poll. it is a twitter poll. anyone can answer it. And if trolls decide they want to flood it they can skew it however they want. So twitter polls should never be taken seriously.
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@ILikePie5
Lol Twitter is dominated by liberals and Trump still won
twitter polls don't count because there sample population is so easily messed with. All it takes is for a few right wing loons to share it around their circles and suddenly you end up with sample size being 75% right wing troll. So no, twitter polls are never reliable.
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@ILikePie5
two things. 1) if they are fake, why would you reference them?Just shows it’s getting harder and harder to keep up the narrative.
the narrative of right wing loons screaming DON'T TRUST ANYONE BUT INTERNET TROLLS!!! No, they seem to keeping up that narrative no matter what.
You don't read the things you post do you? This is a quote from that article:
Trump's rise comes despite registered voters seeing Biden as the winner of Tuesday's debate and coming across as more likable by double-digit margins.
So your own post says that everyone thinks biden won, and you are using that in an attempt to prove trump won....
The average of polls shows almost no change since the debate. There are always outlier polls one way or the other. The trend is the important part. And the trends still show trump losing.
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@Greyparrot
twitter polls don't count. it is super easy for trolls to break those.
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@ILikePie5
how? Trump made a complete ass of himself and somehow Biden alienated people?Lmaooo that’s not what your fake news polls say.
two things. 1) if they are fake, why would you reference them?
2) what polls? the ones I saw in the aftermath of the debate showed people hated trump's performance. So what exactly are you referring to?
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@Stephen
This appears to be to with Trump senior when young Donald was only 17. You are devious bastard aren't you. Donald Trump hired many black people even his personal body guard and driver was black.
these policies continued for decades, including while donald was managing the buildings.
I forget which horrible thing I was referring to here. He has done so many racist things I lose track.How convenient.
lmao, you responded to a comment I made like a year ago. Trump does horrible shit on a weekly basis. that was like 100 scandals ago.
Trump advocated for executing black teenagers when there was little evidence of their guilt (the central park 5).This didn't answer my question and you have not offered no proof of your claim AGAIN!He continued even after they had been proven innocent.Wheres your evidence?
If you google trump and central park 5 you get dozens of articles. take your pick. here is one picked at random.
Find me a case where he advocated for executing white teenagers who had been proven to be innocent.I don't have to . I haven't claimed he did or didn't. It is you that has made all the unsubstantiated claims.
They are not unsubstantiated. I just didn't realize you were too lazy to an absolute basic amount of effort.
You won't forget that proof I asked you for, now , will you.
there are tons of articles on it. take your pick. I linked one above.
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@MisterChris
Biden alienated most American voters.
how? Trump made a complete ass of himself and somehow Biden alienated people?
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@Stephen
Not letting black people live in his buildings? that isn't racist?No. And you haven't shown this to be the case of colour.
Trump and his father both discriminated against black people. They lied to them to keep them from living in their buildings by telling them the rent was higher than it really was or by telling them the apartment was taken if black people asked. Here is an article about it.
Telling american born people of color that they are from failed countries, that isn't racist?Did he? Who did he say that about?
I forget which horrible thing I was referring to here. He has done so many racist things I lose track.
Pushing for the death penalty for innocent black teenagers. that isn't racist?Many innocent whites are have been convicted and sentenced and executed. It wasn't because they were white, was it?
Trump advocated for executing black teenagers when there was little evidence of their guilt (the central park 5). He continued even after they had been proven innocent. Find me a case where he advocated for executing white teenagers who had been proven to be innocent.
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My personal take was that Trump was a petulant child who got scolded over and over again to behave himself but continuously refused. The only people who think Trump did well are sycophants who will defend trump on anything. The same sort of people who will cheer anytime someone "owns the left". Which is kind of hilarious because Joe Biden is more right wing than some republicans on some issues. The idea that Biden represents "the left" is stupid on the face of it.
This was the worst debate in American history. I don't think this would convince a single person to vote for either candidate. But since the vast majority of people have already made up their mind, it was unlikely to have much effect anyways. Trump's supporters don't give a shit what he says or does. He could have burst out in tears and cried the whole debate and his supporters would still have said he was great. And the people who hate trump don't give a shit what biden says. They know trump is one of, if not the worst, presidents in history and would vote for a sack of potatoes to get rid of him.
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The median income, after adjusting for inflation, has remained stagnant since Reagan. When you take into account increased costs of living in the modern world, real wages of families are actually worse off now than they have been for decades. The middle class is much worse off than they were in 90's.
Also, median income isn't the most reliable measure. For example, baby boomers are keeping it inflated. as they retire, the median income will fall.
So you should definitely be concerned with income inequality. Economies are not driven by the rich, especially in a consumer economy (like America's). They are driven by how much wealth consumers have. So as the middle class gets weaker and weaker, america's economy is weakening too. Right wing economists would have you believe that it doesn't matter that the middle class is being destroyed. As long as the rich have tons of money, this will somehow make everyone else's lives better. but this is a lie. They just want to amass as much money as possible, and they will gladly lie to your face to do it. I don't understand why people believe them though. Trickle down economics obviously don't work.
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@3RU7AL
Unbridled power is the fertile ground from which the POLICE STATE springs forth.
no one has ever suggested that their power is, or should be "unbridled". So this statement is a pointless scare tactic.
(1) IFF "the government" was in the business of "saving lives" perhaps they should focus their attention on the #1 and #2 causes of death (which account for more than the next 28 leading causes of death).
lol so the government is required to focus on only 1 or 2 things. And you get to decide what those things are. And if they do anything else it must be tyranny. do you even listen to yourself?
(2) Even if a deadly fire or hurricane evacuation order is announced, the state does not have the authority to FORCIBLY REMOVE PEOPLE FROM THEIR HOMES (per the 4th amendment).
no is talking about removing people from their house. They are talking about keeping them out of public areas. If you refuse to leave your house during a fire, you may die but you aren't endangering anyone else. If you leave your house during a pandemic you could be killing lots of other people.
Look at table 1 and focus specifically on "DEATHS FROM ALL CAUSES" - notice how before COVID-19(84) it averaged close to 60,000 per week, goes up to the 70,000 range for about 6 weeks and then (May 23rd, 2020) drops down to the 60,000 range again and remains below 60,000..
imagine that. taking unprecedented procedures to stop the spread of disease reduced the amount that other diseases spread. not to mention that by limiting the amount people can go out and congregate, you are also reducing lots of other things that kill people.
(IFF) COVID-19(84) is super deadly and super infectious and constantly evolving and can reinfect recovered patients every 3 months (THEN) implement universal basic income and universal healthcare, mechanize food production and suspend (permanently close) all "non-essential" businesses and clubs (CHURCHES).
universal healthcare is definitely a good idea. Sadly both parties are dead set against this. Mechanizing food production isn't really possible currently. And the point is to fight the disease so that these closures don't have to be permanent.
THIS IS NOT OVER AND WILL NEVER BE OVER. MELBOURNE IS EXTENDING THEIR "TEMPORARY" LOCK-DOWN (POLICE STATE) FOR THE NEXT 2 YEARS.
You are confusing public health policy with "police state". you just sounds nuts.
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@3RU7AL
The recommended N95 facemasks have a valve that lets a sneeze pass unfiltered into the surrounding air.
but no one is recommending that normal people should be wearing these. they are supposed to be for medical professionals so i'm not getting into that.
A cloth face-mask does not filter out the 1 to 5 micron droplets generated from a sneeze.
the last study I saw said that there was no evidence that saliva droplets that small carried sufficient viral load to infect people. So that is irrelevant, assuming it is true.
The masks do not keep people from touching their faces and touching doors.
no, it stops people from spraying saliva and disease everywhere.
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@3RU7AL
THE GOVERNMENT CAN PROTECT US BY INFORMING US.
agreed. They aren't always good at doing that.
THE GOVERNMENT CAN PROTECT US BY BUILDING RELIABLE TRUST OVER TIME INSTEAD OF LYING TO US CONSTANTLY.
agreed.
THE GOVERNMENT CAN PROTECT US BY RESPECTING THE CONSTITUTION AND THE RULE OF LAW AND NOT MAKING UP NEW CAPRICIOUS AND TYRANNICAL "TEMPORARY" "POWERS".
strongly disagree. You are essentially arguing that the government can protect people by letting hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people die. That makes no sense.
AN EAR-LOOP STYLE MASK WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM A VIRUS.IF YOU CAN SMELL THROUGH YOUR MASK, YOU WILL GET INFECTED.THE PARTICLES YOUR NOSE CAN DETECT ARE MUCH LARGER THAN ANY VIRUS.
You've misunderstood the point of the mask. It isn't to keep the virus out. It is to keep your saliva in. Saliva is one of the main transmission vectors for the virus. Speaking can spray saliva several feet. So if an infected person goes out in public and doesn't wear a mask, they can easily infect alot of people. Your mask isn't to protect you, it is to protect all the people around you. And their masks are to protect you.
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@3RU7AL
The point that I'm trying to make is that the same legal principles apply in all states regardless of "how bad" the "plague" might be
so your argument is that no matter how bad a global crisis is, the government has no power to protect it's people? That is incredibly dumb. Protecting the people is exactly what a government is for.
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@ILikePie5
Huh? Trump extended unemployment benefits and stopped evictions with executive orders
no he didn't. He extended a small amount of the unemployment benefits. And he did not stop evictions at all. His order asked a government department to look into whether evictions should be stopped. It did not order them to stop it.
cause Democrats refused to consider them in separate bills.
what a joke. The republicans outright refused to continue these. They wanted them cut. But somehow it is the democrat's fault?
Yup, Americans are stupid, racist, sexist, homophobic, islamophobing, and deplorables.
anyone who can watch fox news and believe what they are hearing is probably at least a little bit stupid.
Nope lol. Joe Biden would’ve locked everything down as part of a nationwide lockdown disregarding individual states that don’t have problems.
and gotten covid under control so that the economy would be recovering much faster. Instead America is still having massive numbers of cases which is continuing to cripple the economy.
Leaving it to states and localities is how federalism works. Then again I don’t think you understand the concept yet.
the problem with that logic is that this is not a local issue. It is a national one. Viruses don't stop at the border between states. When florida went ahead with spring break, it spread cases all across the country. allowing the pandemic to be mismanaged and letting the virus spread is a complete botching of the response.
A separate bill was offered in the Senate with things both sides agreed on like evictions and unemployment but Chuck Schumer blocked it.
What bill? There is no way the republicans agreed to extending the unemployment. At least half the republicans in the senate were dead set against this. So i'm pretty sure you are making this up.
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@ILikePie5
So you’re telling me the investigation into Michael Flynn that was supposed to close a day earlier because the FBI found no wrongdoing continued because of Barack Obama and Jim Comey right? No American knew of that White House meeting lol
what are you talking about? The email you referred to did refer to anything that wasn't public knowledge. It was a person sending themselves an email about a discussion where publicly available information was discussed. Why do you think this is evidence of something?
Who writes notes to themselves two weeks after the meeting, right before the inauguration saying Obama did nothing wrong and Jim Comey did everything. Why aren’t you in support of bringing Jim a Comey to testify?
Do you think you're making sense? You're not. You are just stating random things and seem to be convincing yourself that it is evidence of something.
But everything he did was legal right?
no. obstruction of justice is a crime.
If it’s not a crime per your logic and Mueller’s logic then Trump took advantage of the law just like rich people take advantage of tax laws.
so your argument is that if a politician conspires with a foreign power against the interests of america, as long as it isn't technically illegal we should all just be fine with that?
Well thanks for conceding with regards to collusion no prosecutor would’ve pursued a case.
because collusion isn't a crime. Trump was the one who constantly repeated the line about collusion specifically because it wasn't a crime. There was never any question about whether he would be charged with "collusion".
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@ILikePie5
The first investigation into Michael Flynn was set to close the day before that specific White House meeting. And no one knew of FISA abuses till at least 2018 lol. That shit was classified till at least 2018. But it still doesn’t answer the question of when he knew Crossfire Hurricane had started.
the email you are using as evidence makes no mention of FISA or Crossfie hurricane. It doesn't say anything that anyone who watches the news would have known.
Why did Susan Rice write an email to herself about that meeting two weeks after it happened, minutes before Trump’s inauguration? Either way, the meeting implicates Jim Comey if not Barack Obama.
it appears to be basically just notes for herself. It doesn't appear to implicate anyone of anything.
So what’s your point? He did nothing illegal?
he colluded with a foreign power for the express purpose of interfering in a US election. The people he was colluding with then did interfere in the election. That is my point. I was refuting your outright lie when you said comey concluded he didn't collude with Russia. It was the exact opposite. Comey proved the trump team did collude with russia.
So he did nothing wrong cause a crime can’t be proven.
lol you appear to be confusing "wrong" with "criminal". If you scream obscenities at a child it might not be a crime. But it is still wrong.
Therefore exoneration cause the prosecution can’t prove a crime occurred?
still no. Mueller showed the trump team committed multiple counts of obstruction of justice, which is a crime.
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@ILikePie5
Lol the economy is already making a comeback even if you blame Trump
are you high? The economy is floating on the stimulus checks the government was giving out. Those just ended and the republicans are refusing to continue it. That means there is about to be WAY less money floating through the economy. The moratorium on evictions is also ending which will further add to the crisis. The cases are also nowhere near under control.
We are a long way from a comeback.
Voters consistently prefer Trump on the economy compared to Joe Biden who will be a disaster for the economy.
that's because lots of people are stupid and believe what talking heads on Fox news say. People tend to confuse the economy and the stock market as the same thing. They are not.
The economy would’ve tanked harder if Joe Biden was in office, I can tell you that for sure.
hell no. for 1, if the government had gotten a better handle on the virus, we would be having a much better time economically. Trump completely botched it.
2nd, the only thing keeping the economy afloat was the stimulus money coming from the government. The republicans have now cut that off which is going to hit the economy hard.
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@ILikePie5
Honorable. I think he’d do just that. As a middle class person Trump has benefited our family business tremendously. Unemployment was at record lows, wages were increasing. Stock market was great for finance people like us
so you are going to give Trump points for inheriting a booming economy from Obama. but you aren't going to blame him for tanking that economy with his horrendous response to a global crisis? How biased can you get?
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@Crocodile
Did I ever, in one fucking sentence, say that Donald Trump was taking the virus seriosuly? No.I hate Trump, I always will.Both are bad, I'm glad you agree.
agreed. China fucked stuff up too. But no country has gotten their response entirely correct. China was the 1st hit by this. They had the least time and the least data available to make an effective response.
The US was one of the last countries to have a serious outbreak. They had the most time and the most data upon which to design their reaction. And now the US is the epicenter of the pandemic because the US government did very little to try to keep it in check.
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@ILikePie5
That’s besides the point. When did he know about? Why did he know about it in the first place? According to you you shouldn’t have known right?
information about the steele dossier and Carter Page had been public knowledge for months at that point. Everyone knew about it. You are surprised that the President knew about things that had been in the news?
there is no “collusion” in the law books. What’s your point?
this is exactly my point. Trump's team did collude with the russians. That is well established. But collusion is not criminal. That is exactly why trump popularized using that term rather than a more accurate one. Because no matter what information came to light, he could spin it as not being "collusion".
Mueller exonerated Trump and the campaign on criminal conspiracy charges which is the closest to “collusion.”
so he colluded with the foreign power that has been proven to have interfered in the election to help trump. That is established. It was not able to be proven he committed a crime while doing this.
Not to mention you’re changing the topic.
you brought up mueller, not me.
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@Crocodile
China let thousands of people in a "celebration" when they knew the coronavirus was happening.
lol the US did exactly the same thing. Spring Break caused a huge spike in cases. But somehow china should be vilified for it, but republicans shouldn't?
China refused to disclose information and blocked Taiwan from entering the WHO.
The Trump administration has been messing with the stats too. They even redirected the info away from the CDC and to them directly so they could do it even more. So again, China is to blame for it even though trump is trying to do exactly the same thing?
China's late actions, and late actions solely caused the virus to spread around the world.
I'm sure China could have done more, earlier to prevent the spread. Lots of countries were taken off guard by how easily it spreads. But they did end up taking it seriously and getting it under control. trump still hasn't taken it seriously. He still questions whether basic safety measures the Chinese have been doing for months are necessary.
So if you want to complain about late actions causing it to spread, Trump is an excellent place to look.
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@ILikePie5
Now the question how early did he know about?
This is exact text from the email you are referring to. It says he was not asking for information about or instructing them to do anything. Jesus, even your own "evidence" goes contrary to the narrative you are trying to set.
President Obama began the conversation by stressing his continued commitment toensuring that every aspect of this issue is handled by the Intelligence and lawenforcement communities "by the book". The President stressed that he is notasking about, initiating or instructing anything from a law enforcement perspective.He reiterated that our law enforcement team needs to proceed as it normally wouldby the book.From a national security perspective, however, President Obama said he wants tobe sure that, as we engage with the incoming team, we are mindful to ascertain ifthere is any reason that we cannot share information fully as it relates to Russia.
You’re high dude. “[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”
Way to move the goal post. your exact quote was "There’s no evidence of Russian collusion either". That is untrue. Muller found that members of the trump team had extensive contact with the russians that they lied about and claimed never happened. IE collusion. You now want to make it that they weren't directly involved in the criminal interference the russians engaged in to help trump. But that is not what you claimed before.
The trump team did collude with russia. They wanted to use WikiLeaks to damage clinton. Mueller was very clear about that. Then the russians went ahead and did it. There just isn't a neat line between the Trump team trying to commit a crime, and the russians who actually carried out the crime the trump team wanted to commit.
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@ILikePie5
China caused it. Not Trump. Numbers are already coming back better than predictions.
this makes literally no sense. China didn't cause anything. It is an outbreak of a new disease.
And I didn't say Trump caused the pandemic. I said his complete botching of government's response to the crisis is causing massive economic problems the likes of which haven't been seen since the great depression.
No one should trust that complete idiot with running a country.
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@Dr.Franklin
sorry, most of 65 was a response to you, not ILikePie
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@ILikePie5
Spying on a campaign during election season is comparable to Watergate.
in the same way that a fire cracker is comparable to nuclear bomb, sure. They are both explosions. But one is massively bigger in scale. So pretending like they are the same thing makes you look insanely biased or delusional.
you haven't provided any evidence of anything. In fact your narrative itself is kind of all over the place.Susan Rice email to herself. Obama knew about the investigation.
are you ever going to explain what you are taking about and provide some evidence? Or are you just going to keep making random statements make no sense?
There’s no evidence of Russian collusion either. Saint Mueller said so.
what? Are you kidding? The investigation “identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign” and established that the Trump Campaign “showed interest in WikiLeaks's releases of documents and welcomed their potential to damage candidate Clinton”
Muller found lots of evidence of collusion and they wanted to use this collusion to damage clinton.
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@ILikePie5
As a person in the financial field, Trump would benefit you more economically. Just my two cents.
Trump's complete botching of a global crisis is causing the greatest economic problems since the great depression. So no, he most definitely is not better for anyone economically (except maybe billionaires who are still getting richer as the economy tanks)
hey are a tiny extremist group. They have little to no effect on events.that is wrong
why? because fox news told you so? They just want to frighten you. And it is working.
Antifa is highly organized and they have tons of supporters
please provide evidence for this.
yes drugs did kill him,fetanyol did kill george floyd
again, please provide evidence for your obvious lies.
how has the government suppressed the movement, they have bend the knee to these people and have defunded the police-the federal
what? They beat them, tear gassed them, grabbed them off the street and shoved them into unmarked vans. The list goes on and on and on. The government is doing everything it can to suppress the fight for the rights of black people.
not the point-the point is calling everyone under the sun a racist-trump,jordan peterson,milo,etc
I don't call everyone a racist. But it is a wide spread issue. And the right in particular loves to use dog whistle racism. So when a party weaponizes racism in order to win elections, that is a serious problem.
what americas racist problem? dont bring up police brutality as that is not true
police brutality is certainly an issue. But beyond that, police discrimination is a bigger problem. You don't have to beat someone with a stick to be a racist. Police regularly harass people of color who have done nothing wrong. It is only when it escalates to the point of the cop killing the target of their racism that most people pay attention.
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@ILikePie5
This is the only one we know of. The fact it’s happening should concern you. You’re trying to justify the action by saying it’s shady anyways.
I'm not justifying it. It is completely unacceptable. But you are pretending like it is somehow comparable to Watergate. It isn't.
What lol. If this was the case why didn’t they tell the court that they thought this. Why did they purposefully omit he was CIA and why didn’t the FBI ask the CIA if they thought it was true lol. Carter Page had no prior criminal record anyways.
they did tell the court that. The court agreed.
You asked how the President would know about FBI investigations. I said if it involved high ranking officials, the President would definitely know. Now I’m pointing to a high ranking official that Barack Obama knew about as part of the overarching operation called Crossfire Hurricane.
you haven't provided any evidence of anything. In fact your narrative itself is kind of all over the place.
You’re just proving my point lol. FBI does shady stuff because of Hunter Biden’s connections to Ukrainian oligarchs as part of one of the most corrupt nations. They use this to moniter conversations between Joe Biden and Hunter Biden. Does that seem ok to you?
it is, in no way, related. The FBI investigated a legitimate threat the national security. The lied in order to do that. That is a terrible thing.
Hunter Biden didn't actually do anything at all. He sat on a board. There is no evidence, or even legitimate suspicion, he committed any kind of crime. There is no comparison.
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@ILikePie5
Can you unequivocally condemn ANTIFA the organization?
mostly. They have some laudable goals. But for the most part they go about doing things in a completely unacceptable way.
But again, they are a tiny fringe group that has little to no affect on the real world. There is no more reason to talk about them than some lunatic right wing militia. they don't really matter.
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@Dr.Franklin
wrong, antifa is a domestic terrorist group responsible for widespread looting and violence
they are a tiny extremist group. They have little to no effect on events.
but sure, its just a conspiracy theory
well they do exist, but they are a small group with little organization. however the right trying to paint them as a boogey man to scare right wing idiots is absolutely a conspiracy theory. For example they point to protests by people looking to protect the rights of black people and protend it is somehow an Antifa plot. That is insane. There are probably more white supremacists in those protests (trying to stir up trouble) than antifa.
what "issues" do you really care about if your main argument is that a life long felon who overdosed on a cops knee means that "black loves matter"
lol, so drugs killed him the moment a cop knelt on his neck? Are you really that stupid? The knee on his neck had nothing to do with his sudden death?
how is it a major issue when every corporation in existence stands with you yet you claim no one cares about black lives??
so a company release a press statement saying they support the movement for publicity, but don't take any actual action? Also, the government actively tries to suppress the movement. Why would you think that is evidence that people care about black lives?
also isnt this a bit hypocritical, the left screams racist ans exist at every corner too after they disagree with someone, and they censor them.
what is your point? There is a great deal of issues with racism. So yes, it requires alot of attention be brought to that issue. It seems like you are uncomfortable actually addressing america's problems and would be much happier if suppressed people would just be quiet about it.
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@ILikePie5
I never said it was. But the system was designed to work this way. So pretending like this specific example of it's abuse is somehow more serious is just your bias.Let me put it this way: it’s illegal. It doesn’t matter how many times it’s happened. It’s still illegal.
of course it is. I have never claimed it isn't. You are attempting to paint this specific case as if it is as important as watergate. The reality is that this entire FISA process is shady and corrupt. Pointing to one specific case of it's misuse and pretending like it is unique is stupid.
But there was no reason to surveil Carter Page lol. He was freakin CIA informant which the FBI didn’t include at first and then falsified it.
there was good reason to believe he was a russian agent. Lots of spies play both sides. Just like lots of criminals inform to the FBI. It doesn't make them less of a criminal.
The warrant was illegitimate. Period.
no, it wasn't.
Sally Yates even said she wouldn’t have signed it based on what she knew today. The judges on the FISA court wouldn’t have signed it either.
which one? There were lots of warrents issued.
How is it vague? Did Obama know of the Flynn investigation as part of Crossfire Hurricane? Yes or No? If he did then how’d he find out? Who told him about it. It’s pretty obvious Obama knew.
what the hell are you even talking about? You just keep making random statements and asking random questions. I have no idea what your point is.
I guess Trump should wiretap Biden officials because of Hunter Biden’s connections to Russia purposefully withholding evidence in the process. You seem fine with it.
So because a law enforcement agency did shady stuff while investigating a legitimate threat, you think that an incredibly corrupt politician should abuse that agency?
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@ILikePie5
Just because it’s abused doesn’t make it ok lol.
I never said it was. But the system was designed to work this way. So pretending like this specific example of it's abuse is somehow more serious is just your bias.
And it’s arguably similar to Watergate. Wiretapping a campaign official illegally to listen in on a presidential campaign and even Donald Trump himself.
there are similarities. But to pretend like they are even in the same league of seriousness is a joke. 1 was a president illegally spying to protect his power. The other was law enforcement agents investigating potentially very serious crimes and committing crimes to do it. They weren't elected officials. They weren't doing it to protect their own power and they had legitimate reasons to believe a crime had been committed.
Lmao, no it wasn’t. The Steele Dossier was never corroborated. Dont take my word for it. Take the word of DOJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz. There was no evidence that it was true. Period.
you're aware the dossier contains lots of information on lots of different things right? Lots of it is accurate. Some of it isn't.
where is your evidence of that?How did Obama know of the investigation into Michael Flynn?
what are you talking about? Why do you just make vague statements and pretend like you have made an argument?
lol trump lies a dozen times a day. he says crazy ass shit constantly. One of the thousands of crazy things he says happened to have level of truth in it so we are supposed to pretend like he is somehow reliable?Lol.
yes, Trump is a sad, pathetic joke. He spends most of his days spreading lies and misinformation and his cultish follower eat it up. When it is disproved they pretend it never happened. When 1 out of the thousands of lies ends up having a grain of truth they pretend like he was always telling the truth. It's really sad.
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@Dr.Franklin
democratic mayors are defending antifathey are the WORST
Why does the right wing see Antifa behind every corner? any time someone protests injustice they scream antifa. Any time anyone does anything they don't like, they scream antifa. It's really weird. Antifa is a fairly small fringe group that has little effect on anything. But I guess it's easier to just cry about antifa than to actually look at the issues and question your own incredibly flawed ideology.
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@Greyparrot
That literally describes all the Antifa Mayors in the burning cities telling the police to stand down.
what are you even talking about? There is no such thing as an "antifa mayor". You are seriously just pulling stuff out of your ass and pretending like it is reality.
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@ILikePie5
For the FISA warrants? Nope. Page was a CIA informant. It was literally his job at the time. The FBI withheld that info at first and later lied about. Is that not a problem to you?
yes. it is a problem. I never said it wasn't. But comparing it is nowhere near the level of seriousness of watergate.
What does this even mean lol. There are rules that were violated by the 17 errors and omissions. It’s definitely not how FISA applications work. You are required to tell the truth and give all the information to the judge.
true. but FISA warrants are by design a secretive process with not much oversight. My point was that since this process is designed to be secretive neither you nor I have any idea how much this system is abused. It is entirely possible that this case is totally normal for the FISA courts. And again, that is a terrible thing. But you are trying to pretend like this is somehow in the same ballpark as Watergate, which is nuts.
parts of it, sure. Lots of it was very accurate.It was funded by the DNC. You think any judge would sign off on the warrant knowing this was opposition research by the opposite political party during an election season?
It was funded by republicans. Then when they lost interest the DNC continued their work. But that doesn't, in any way, dispute the fact that alot of the report was accurate and it was therefore evidence that serious crimes had been committed.
do you think the FBI notifies the president of their investigations? Why would they do that?If it’s of high level people? Definitely.
where is your evidence of that?
Yet. If this was all Durham had, it would be over by now. There are more people and higher ups involved for sure even if it’s not Barack Obama. If it’s Comey or Lynch or Yates for example. They all have direct ties to the President. Remember when y’all were saying Trump was a conspiracy theorist for saying his campaign was wiretapped? Not a conspiracy theory anymore huh?
lol trump lies a dozen times a day. he says crazy ass shit constantly. One of the thousands of crazy things he says happened to have level of truth in it so we are supposed to pretend like he is somehow reliable?
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@ILikePie5
I have no problem with investigations. My problem is they wiretapped a presidential campaign based on evidence they knew was false during an election year into Trump campaign officials.
Again, i'm not saying they didn't commit crimes. Maybe they did. But there was circumstantial evidence that trump and his associates were engaging in crime. They were investigating that potential crime.
Everything done was illegally done. The DOJ IG found 17 errors/omissions in FISA applications against Carter Page who was a CIA informant
ok, but how much of that is standard practice though? the FISA process is super shadowy by design. Saying there were 17 errors or omissions means nothing if that is how lots of FISA applications work.
Their core basis was the Steele Dossier which was proven to be false.
parts of it, sure. Lots of it was very accurate.
If you’re saying top Obama officials and by proxy Obama had no idea about this you’re lying to yourself.
do you think the FBI notifies the president of their investigations? Why would they do that?
There is no evidence that any elected official did anything wrong. There is evidence that some FBI agents committed some crimes while investigating potentially serious crimes. This is nothing even close to the Watergate scandal. So hyping it up will go over great on right wing forums. But to regular people it just sounds stupid.
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@Greyparrot
Trump is the modern day Cincinnatus.
Trump is the modern day Nero. Only interested in himself and helping to burn it down.
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@ILikePie5
You think this is pointless? This is worse than Watergate lol
watergate was a sitting president criminally breaking into his opponent's offices to get dirt on them.
"russiagate" was the FBI investigating a politician for potentially very serious crimes.
There is absolutely no comparison between the 2. There was lots of circumstantial evidence to think investigating trump's ties was valid and necessary. Therefore they were doing their jobs to investigate it. I'm not saying they are all innocent. It sounds like some of them did commit crimes in pursuing this. But they have valid reasons to think there was a serious crime to investigate. Nixon was just super corrupt and trying to protect his own power.
Don't let your cultish love of trump blind you to reality. Because to people outside your cult you just sounds nuts.
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@Greyparrot
Im not picking anyone I like or don't like. These are the people responsible for 50 years of failed policies.
so the republicans who have pushed for horrible policies on a national, state and city level get a pass. We should only target democratic mayors....
Let's start with the problems that have consistently gotten worse under their leadership. Them.
again, so we only target demcoratic mayors. We completely ignore any republicans in state of federal government who have spent decades making poor people's lives worse? Do you not see how partisan and ridiculous your argument appears to be?
More of the same isn't a viable solution.
agreed. This is why we need more progressive candidates to get rid of the neo-liberal hacks running the Democratic party. And also why we need to replace as many republicans as possible.
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@MisterChris
She seems very fake. She calls Biden a rapist and racist and yet wants to sign onto his campaign?
yeah. she also co-sponsored medicare for all when she thought that would be a boost for her. Then her donors told her they didn't like it and suddenly she has always had problems with it. I don't think she actually stands for anything, other than her own career. But that is a primary characteristic that political donors are looking for. If a candidate has actual beliefs they will fight for, then you can't bribe them to do the opposite when it suits you.
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@Greyparrot
Systemic Poverty and inequality is also rampant in cities run by systemic Democrats for the past 50 years, most of them Democrats of color.Seems like we can start with this first.
why? you seem to just be picking people you don't like and trying to point the finger at them. Meanwhile, the people you support are just as bad, if not worse than them.
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@Greyparrot
There is a disgusting statistic where 2900 blacks were shot in a year in Chicago, and 17 were shot by cops (white and black cops)
ok, but systemic racism fuels poverty. Poverty fuels crime. Crime fuels the murder rate. So systemic racism is still a big factor in that.
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@Greyparrot
Floyd's family got zero money out of the billions donated to BLM. It's not about actual lives.
I don't understand your point. donating to try to the family of one victim would be about saving lives. but donating to save lives all over the country is not about saving lives?
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@Greyparrot
California is huge for donors
yep. and that is the primary reason she was chosen. She has proven in her career and in her campaign that she will protect the status quo and the power of the rich. So they are thrilled to have a younger corportist neo-liberal that they can push for years to come.
And they also have a built protection that if anyone criticizes her for any reason, they will just claim it is racism or sexism. So you point out how she lets corrupt rich guys off even though her own office recommended charges, you must be sexist. If you point out how she wanted to use the law to punish poor people over truancy, you must be a racist.... That has already started.
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@Greyparrot
Most people on the left don't actually care about sytemic racism. It's just another forgotten buzzword to gain power.
lol literally millions of people took to the streets to protest systemic racism. But you somehow read that as no one cares about racism?
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While i'm not surprised by this pick, it's still sad and stupid. She had very little support in the primary. She doesn't actually stand for anything. She doesn't help in any of the categories that Biden actually needs help appealing to.
The only thing she adds to the ticket is donor support. The donor class loves kamela. They see her for what she is, one of them. an elite who will protect the rich and punish to poor. I don't see how she brings in a single vote for Biden. But she might help him attract more billionaire donors.
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@Dr.Franklin
but it is the leader of BLM, not just a random person in the movement
ok, but again, it is just 1 person in a movement of millions. I bet you 90% of BLM supporters and protesters have no idea who that woman is, let alone share her beliefs.
I saw videos with dozens, if not hundreds, of cops abusing protesters over the last few months. So "a few" is a massive understatement.they were problaby faked nor provided contet
that is just pathetic. There are hundreds of videos of police brutality on peaceful protest and your response is to just pretend that reality isn't real.
why would defunding them not work? You take away the funds that they no longer need because they are doing less tasks. If they stop being sent to do stuff they are not equipped to do, then they don't need anywhere near as much money.how are they doing less tasks
things like handling homelessness. There is no reason why police need to be doing that. They aren't equipped for it, they aren't properly trained for it. social workers would be much better equipped to resolve the issue. So it makes no sense to spend millions and millions of dollars sends armed men to fight homelessness. If those resources were refocused on an agency that is better equipped to resolve the problem, we would get much better outcomes. It would also reduce violence, since police are primarily trained how to use force to resolve situations, which in a situation that is not criminal, that is not a good thing.
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