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@Greyparrot
I will acknowledge other people do too.Shocking admission.
then i'm not sure you really pay attention to things i say. I am very critical of the democratic establishment as well as the republican party. Most of the news coming out of outlets like CNN or MSNBC have a heavy corporatist spin (not as bad as fox, but still bad).
Corruption is rampant in american politics and media. I have never been shy about saying that. But other people being corrupt does not excuse trump being corrupt. He is the one with the power to save lives right now and he is choosing to let them die in a stupid attempt to win re-election and get more money flowing to the rich.
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@Greyparrot
Every media outlet censors, and at the same time is never held accountable for pushing fake news. It's all political. Nobody in the media gives a fuck about you.
ok. what is your point? The topic is "it's not political". I said trump has made it political. I will acknowledge other people do too. But either way, my assessment is still correct.
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Norpoth said if Trump is able to refrain from commenting or tweeting about political opponents and instead focus on the continued economic recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic, he stands a good chance of winning a second term.
"He had some strong points that gave him that big win in the primaries, and I think that he has to take advantage of that," he said. "I think that anything that distracts from that will not be good for him."
this seems to be super critical. IE if Trump is able to stop being Trump, he has a good chance of winning. But trump is never able to stop with petty nonsense. It is a large percentage of his personality.
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@Greyparrot
I really don't care if Trump loses at this point. Liberal cities are on fire right now. No elite is safe.
yes, there are widespread peaceful protests with a few random acts of violence. That definitely equals "cities on fire".
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@Greyparrot
You are assuming that I am assuming.
lol all this article does is convince me that the trump administration is more incompetent that I already thought. They have done nothing to try to standardize the reporting. So different states are reporting stats differently.
Basically, the federal government is doing nothing to try to get accurate stats, so some of the stats aren't accurate. They are also trying to defund testing to make it look like the issue is less serious than it is. You look at that and want to use it to pretend the crisis isn't serious. Most logical people look at that and think "why the hell hasn't the government gotten the testing and reporting fixed yet, it has been months".
Shit like this is why trump is now down by double digits.
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@Greyparrot
So what? Everything is censored. You don't know anything. I don't care about Trump when im living in the middle of a 1984 Dystopia.
I agree about the dystopia, but clearly not for the reasons you are. Trump is sending unmarked thugs to attack and "arrest" people. They refuse to say who they are, what federal agency they belong to, or why they are doing things. They grab people off the street and hold them. That is some 1984 shit. But yeah, lets definitely focus on the fact that we need to wear a mask to stop a virus. That is definitely the big problem....
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@Greyparrot
Making them go back to school for one. CDC overwhelmingly states kids are suffering massive health risks due to quarantine along with child abuse.
everyone agrees on that. Why are you stating that as if someone is saying otherwise?
Censored scientists on Youtube repeatedly confirm this along with actual Covid numbers for children the MSM is actively censoring as a political matter.
a couple of things
1) you linked to a rant by someone random. There is no evidence provided that Youtube is actually doing what he claims or, if they are, what youtube's reasons for doing so are. For all I know the videos were complete loons telling people to drink bleach.
2) Youtube is a private corporation. We have no control over them. Hell, the government has no control over them. So why does their actions have anything to do with this topic?
It most certainly is political once the censoring begins.
again, you have provided no evidence that youtube has actually done anything. You give me a list of names and say youtube has censored them. But where is your evidence of that? And if they did, what was it they were censoring? If these are the kinds of people who push misinformation that will harm people (like saying that vaccines cause autism), I would argue that youtube has a responsibility to prevent that misinformation from being spread on their platform. Letting that kind of shit run rampant gets people killed.
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@Greyparrot
I stopped caring about covid the moment Youtube started censoring scientists.
Trump beat you to it. He never cared about Covid. He also never cared about the 143,000 people it has killed. Or cared about really anyone but himself.
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@dustryder
This is some weird conservative echo chamber.You have the patience of a saint
yeah, most of the people who post in here range from moderately right wing to completely delusional cultists who would believe the sky is purple if trump told them to. I've watched them tell me that evidence is there, (though they could never tell me where) and he seemed to honestly believe he had provided evidence. Then other cultists jumped in to say he had beat me and provided evidence, even though that person also couldn't provide any evidence.
There is no convincing people like this because they don't actually listen to or believe anything that doesn't reinforce their pre-conceived beliefs.
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@ILikePie5
If it has no rights and isn’t living why should it be protected by laws?
Why shouldn't it? We protect your car. IE if someone steals it or destroys it that is a crime and is punishable. A fetus is more important to someone that a car. So why would we not have legal protections for it?
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@Greyparrot
It doesn't matter anyway. People with Covid are counted the same as from Covid.
where is your evidence for that? You seem to just be assuming.
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@ILikePie5
If a fetus has no rights then feticide should be legal to everyone with no repercussions.
a fetus belongs to the woman carrying it. If you kill it you should be liable for that. If she wishes to terminate it, that is her decision.
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@Greyparrot
Okay let's try this again. How does a hospital discharge a dead person?
because death is a discharge, as you already said.
but you are arguing that they have a financial incentive to report someone died of covid instead of something else, but there isn't. Whether someone had covid and died of an accident, or someone had covid and died from the virus, the hospital makes the same money. They don't have to report the person died from the virus in order to get the 20% extra money.
Therefore they have no reason to say they died of covid if it isn't the covid that killed them.
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@Greyparrot
What is much more dangerous is pretending Covid is as dangerous to healthy young people as it is to Older at-risk people. It's not, and the numbers back it up. Yes it's much more dangerous for at-risk people. No, it's not more dangerous to children and healthy 20-40 year olds.
well partially. It is more dangerous for people over 40 and with underlying health conditions. that much is true. It is also dangerous for people 20-40. Just less dangerous than for the other groups.
It leads to the continuation of policies that hurt young people as the CDC has constantly pointed out. The CDC knows what is dangerous, and irresponsible. The current policies of quarantining healthy children are.
No one wants to quarantine people they don't have to. As far as I know, no one is advocating for that. Unless of course you consider social distancing quarantine for some reason.
However it is critically important that we take the necessary precautions to keep people safe. That means getting everyone to wear masks and social distance.
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@Greyparrot
Hospital gets the money ON A DISCHARGE. A death certificate is a certificate of DISCHARGE. You can't get funding for just sending in a COVID test result.
ok, i'm not understanding your point. They get funding on discharge for any patient diagnosed with covid. As far as I can tell, the bill does not require the patient died from covid, just that they have it. So if a guy has covid and died of physical trauma then it's the same money as if the guy died of covid. Therefore they have no reason to give an inaccurate cause of death.
As long as they were diagnosed with covid and were discharged then they get the money.
Am I misunderstanding something? Does the bill only provide additional funding if the cause of death is from covid? Because i'm not seeing that.
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@Greyparrot
Not to children and healthy 20-40 year olds. Numbers clearly back that up.
The 10x deadlier is covering the entire population. You appear to be correct that it is not particularly deadly to children. However it is still quite dangerous to 20-40 year olds. Alot of people in that category still get hospitalized and can have permanent injuries from it even if it doesn't kill them. Pretending like covid isn't dangerous to people under 40 is incredibly irresponsible and is getting people killed.
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@Greyparrot
You can't get a dead person to sign discharge papers. It's not like they can get up and walk out of the hospital. SMH. The funding isn't given on admittance. The funding is given upon discharge.
i understand. But from what I can see all the hospital has to do is show the patient had covid, they would get the funding. They can also report he died of the trauma from the motor cycle accident and that would not affect the funding. So they have no incentive to report an inaccurate cause of death.
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@Greyparrot
It's immediate proof for the financial claim. A death is counted as a discharge from the hospital.
ok, but all they would have to do is show his diagnosis of Covid. They do not have to show that covid killed him to get the funding. Therefore there is no reason for the deaths stats to be inaccurate.
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@Greyparrot
Well then you can easily take the contrapositive of your own claim. You are making risk assessments when you have no clue how fatal Covid is.
of course we know how fatal it is. We have reports from all over the world. Not to mention about 140,000 dead americans. What we don't have is the kind of detail you are pretending you know. Things like how long can it survive on a surface, and under what conditions. Can it remain airborne and how do conditions affect that. etc.
Why would you liten to politicians who are lying to your face when they claim the science is on "their side?"
I don't. I listen to doctors and medical experts. Only a fool would listen to a politician about a medical issue. They are not the experts.
The fact of the matter is that there are DOZENS of preliminary studies that give us a very good idea about how Covid works, and we don't have to operate like a government agency and wait 10 years before someone in authority can safely tell you what to do with zero liability. Well you can I guess. Most people are much less robotic.
We do have lots of preliminary studies. They show covid spreads very easily and it is about 10X deadlier than the flu. They also show that social distancing and masks help to significantly cut down the spread of the virus.
That is exactly why government should be mandating those things be done. Because studies show they work.
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@Greyparrot
Thank you for clarifying.
However i'm not sure the way you described it is accurate. You are claiming that hospitals have a reason to inflate deaths counts from covid because of this, but I don't see why. That bill says that they will receive increased compensation for treating people with covid. Whether they die or not is irrelevant to the funding as far as I can tell. As long as they can show the patient has covid, then they would get the extra funding. They have no reason to say a patient died from it in order to get the funding. So for example, the motor cycle patient, whether or not they reported he died of covid, they would get the same amount of money as far as i can tell.
But again, i'm not an expert on reading congressional bills, so it's possible i have misunderstood.
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@Greyparrot
I love your assumptions of your own ignorance. Fascinating.It's one thing to state "I haven't seen the research yet" and then quite another thing to form an opinion based on the belief that "because I have not seen the research, it most certainly cannot exist."
I've explained this to you over and over and you seem to just ignore it. Research takes years. They do these studies over and over to ensure they have reliable results. So it isn't possible for this research to be complete. You keep assuming that you have sufficient evidence to decide it is safe when that evidence simply cannot exist yet.
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@Greyparrot
It is true that a section of the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (or the CARES Act) calls for higher compensation from the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) for the care of patients with a primary or secondary diagnosis of COVID-19. The measure is found in Section 3710, and the increase is 20%.
sorry, i'm not particularly used to reading congressional bills so it's possible i'm not understanding this correctly. But there doesn't seem to be a section 3710 in the document you linked to.
Also, it doesn't appear that this has been passed into law. It says the last action was a hearing.
"03/19/2020
Read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance. (text: CR S1834-1859)
Action By: Senate"
So why would something that hasn't been passed be affecting how hospitals operate?
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@Greyparrot
symptomatic people already have inflated the covid death numbers. Many dead people tested with even a faint residual of Covid got marked down as a Covid death.
please provide evidence for your baseless claim.
You had to know that was going to happen when hospitals got rewarded with Federal dollars for inflating death counts of Covid.
what are you even talking about?
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@Greyparrot
That's a common misconception. The viral loads of infected people talking or breathing are far, far lower, almost undetectable compared to a cough or sneeze.Go look it up.
Since i don't think this research has been done yet, i seriously doubt you have looked it up. But please, provide evidence of this.
When masked people cough or sneeze, unless they have an airtight fit, massive jets of air coat the cheeks and face areas with the virus which everyone immediately then spreads around with their hands, gloves or no gloves.
no one has ever said masks are a perfect solution. You seem to be arguing since masks aren't 100% effective, we should do absolutely nothing. That is an extremely defeatist attitude.
Scientists are just way too afraid to admit they can't really do much to stop or slow a virus from running it's natural course through herd immunity.
That is obviously not true. Lots of countries have gotten the spread of covid slowed or under control. If you take the proper safety precautions, you can get it under control. Our problem is stupid people who say things like "it's not possible to stop it" or "it's not going to kill me" and so they break the rules and spread the virus further. Other idiots then use the continued spread of the virus to try to argue the rules don't work, when it is the people not following them that are the problem.
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@ILikePie5
I don’t know what you’re trying to arguing? Are you justifying that people with these symptoms should be out on the streets with masks on because it covers their mouth?
what do you mean? Healthy people cough or sneeze. It is not inherently a sign of illness. So lots of people will cough or sneeze in public. Now if they are coughing fairly regularly that is obviously a problem.
Then don’t stand in front of them when they’re talking lmao.
that is pretty much exactly what the sociel distancing is for. IE stay 6 feet apart. But that doesn't, on it's own, prevent transfer. If you expel saliva and it lands on a door knob, faucet, etc. Someone else will come a long and touch it. And that person could easily catch covid.
Better yet, no one should talk. It just spreads the virus even more
Since that is obviously not going to work, the much better solution is just to wear a mask so that people can speak normally and reduce the risk of spreading the virus.
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@fauxlaw
1. abortion is a choice primarily of democrats, of whom 91% support it. https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/
Ok, but whether or not a fetus is terminated has absolutely nothing to do with protecting actual people. It is completely unrelated to this topic.
2. of 27 of the largest U.S. cities having protest violence chiefly over the death of George Floyd, 24 [89%] are Democrart-lead cities.https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/47752/is-there-currently-riots-looting-only-in-democrat-cities-in-the-usa
because urban areas tend to vote democrat, rural areas tend to vote republican. So your comment is basically just saying lots of protests happen in cities. Which everyone already knows. and that is also completely unrelated to covid or this topic.
So again, that was alot of verbal diarrhea that has nothing to do with the topic.
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@ILikePie5
If someone is sneezing or coughing a mask isn’t going to prevent the virus from escaping.
why? it is covering their mouth
That’s disgusting. You’re telling me people spit in your face when they’re talking to you face to face?
yes. if you are standing close to someone who is talking, they have definitely had their spit land on you.
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@ILikePie5
Coughing and sneezing are symptoms.
people cough and sneeze all the time, even when they aren't sick. If it is mild, lots of people would not think they are sick and be spreading the virus.
And unless you talk hard and spit comes out talking doesn’t spread the virus lol.
most people have some amount of spit come out of their mouth when they talk. That is totally normal. The air leaving your mouth as you speak will propel saliva out.
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@ILikePie5
How do masks prevent asymptomatic spread? Genuine question
the virus is carried in human saliva. If someone is asymptomatic it is still in their saliva. So if an asymptomatic person coughs, sneezes or even speaks, they will expel that saliva. Anyone who comes into contact with it, either directly or by touching a surface it is on (a door handle for example) can catch corona virus.
The purpose of the mask is to keep saliva from being expelled from people's mouths and infecting people around them. Since we know that people can be sick and not even know they are sick, it is important that as many people as possible wear masks to reduce the spread of the virus.
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@fauxlaw
Preaching to the choir again - more evidence history is not your friend.Show me where I said I don't wear a mask. But you're getting freaking paranoid. Go out and buy your body suit.
again, that is really sad. I never said you don't wear a mask. what I said was:
"this is just getting sad. You are presented with extremely basic and obvious safety precautions (ie cover your mouth and stay away from other people) and you still paint it as if it is this extreme over reaction. "
And you are painting it as if it is an over reaction.
Not to mention that democrats are slaughtering themselves right now; they cannot wait for November. Curious how an affinity for abortion spreads like a viral infection to perform so many post-birth abortions by gun in democrat-run cities and states. Want to explain that rationale? While Black Lives Matter?
jesus that was some verbal diarrhea. Did that string of words actually make sense when you said them in your head?
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@fauxlaw
this is just getting sad. You are presented with extremely basic and obvious safety precautions (ie cover your mouth and stay away from other people) and you still paint it as if it is this extreme over reaction.
Wearing a mask isn't hard. It is a bit uncomfortable, but to save lives it is a tiny price to pay. But that just goes to show everyone that your comfort is more important to you thank 10's of thousands of other people's lives. And that is why republicans are going to get slaughtered in november. Because they aren't even trying to hide their complete disregard for the lives of their constituents.
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@Dr.Franklin
what makes you think it was a one thing occurence?
why would we not? There is no evidence that this is a widespread issue. The better question is why would anyone jump to the conclusion of a widespread issue when no evidence that one exists?
the fact is that not everything that happened that was bad is covid related,
no one has ever claimed this is the case. Pretending like someone is arguing this is a straw man argument you would find on fox news.
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@Dr.Franklin
so there was a single error in counting people who have died? There have also been lots of doctors who say deaths have been under-counted because they didn't have enough tests to be able to use them on dead people.
So unless there is evidence that this is something that happens relatively frequently, this one case doesn't really have much relevance as it would be statistically insignificant.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
No more bragging about what he's done and things he thinks he should get credit for. Much less talk and far more action will lock in a win in November.
lol you are clearly not familiar with trump. Bragging and claiming credit for things he didn't do is like 60% of what he does in a day. Actual action (assuming you don't count golf) is like 5% of what trump does. and even then, that action is often terrible.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
the faulty tests and testing is nothing new, coupled with the "erroneous" or even false reporting I stand by my statement. .
but you haven't shown any faulty tests or testing. erroneous reports always happen. That is why medical science takes years or even decades to make absolute determinations. We don't have that kind of time though.
"The case studies found worldwide indicate that the behavior of the SARS-CoV-2 virus has been unprecedentedly unique with more survival and viable rates in the air and believed to linger in the air for an extended period. "which is why people don't trust masks to the extent others do, also the viral load as to be sufficient to cause the infection, do you know how much it takes to infect someone because I haven't seen that.
again, doctors study diseases for years or even decades before they come to firm conclusions. We've had a couple months. We know covid spreads fast and it spreads easily. We know it can be passed in saliva. Do we know precisely the size the saliva droplet needs to be, or exactly how long it can be in direct sunlight before it is killed? no, not yet. But we know that it spreads very easily without masks and that masks help to prevent the spread by controlling saliva expulsion.
So in conclusion, none of your sources prove anything.sure none of the other studies you posted have either as I've pointed out before. All they can do is give opinions and qualified statements.
all studies have shown that the virus spreads through saliva. All studies show that masks reduce or prevent entirely, the expulsion of saliva from a person's mouth. There is no question that masks slow down the spread. There is no question that social distancing slows down the spread. So those things are certain. In the months and years ahead we will learn more about the details of the virus, but for right now we need to do what we can to keep people alive.
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@ethang5
If I were you, I'd want to revise history too.
by all means, find me the polls where hilary was winning by double digits.
November isn't far away. Take your time, no liberal fails the university of reality, no matter how many times he may have to retake a class. Graduate or die trying.
you're right that November isn't far away. And that makes trump in very deep trouble. He has a global crisis that he is ignoring, tanking poll numbers, and no sign that anything will get better until some time next year (at best). Trump utterly screwed. Even texas is a toss up state now.
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@ILikePie5
He can’t stand the fact that Trump isn’t to blame for this
Did trump cause the virus? no of course not. Did trump's lack of leadership, belittling the crisis and undermining the CDC's attempts to control the virus cause it to get worse and kill thousands more people? Absolutely.
and science supports the reopening of schools.
I keep repeating over and over that I support re-opening schools safely. But that requires significant resources, guidelines and training to do properly. Trump is skipping the whole "safely" part and just going to "threaten them until they send children into a confined space where the virus can spread".
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@ILikePie5
You need help dude. Trump is advocating for schools to open safely, with the tactics mentioned by the CDC. If you go online, you don’t get funds. That’s his right. I don’t see what your problem is. Schools should open.
on one point we agree. We both think schools should re-open. The difference is I think that they should ONLY reopen if they can show that they can do it safely. IE they need to show that they are ready and able to institute all the guidelines and safety procedures laid out by the CDC.
The problem is that trump doesn't give a shit about that. He is telling those schools that they must open. He isnt saying open if it's safe. He is threatening that if they dare not reopen because they don't think it's safe, he'll cut their funding. Trump is endangering thousands and thousands of lives by insisting schools open and doing absolutely nothing to make sure it's safe. And this is going to bite him in the ass hard. It is a tragedy that so many people will have to die 1st.
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@ethang5
Hillery was to win by a "landslide" too, MSNBC was saying so even on election night.
hilary was never winning by double digits. Biden is.
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@ethang5
The problem you have is that the polls were pretty close to being right in 2016.They will be just as right in 2020
You'd better pray they are not. Polls were off by a couple points in a couple states in 2016 which let Trump eke out close wins. Biden is up by double digits this time. If they are off by a couple points then Biden wins in a landslide.
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@ILikePie5
Sure so schools can open and Trump can’t do nothing about it so stop blaming Trump lmao.
That would be accurate, assuming trump was not threatening them in order to force them open. If he was calling for them to stay closed unless it was safe, then schools chose to open in an unsafe way, then sure. Trump is not to blame. But trump is threatening them to force them to open and doing nothing to make sure they are safe. That makes him responsible for the consequences. So when people start dying because of this, that blood is on his hands.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
since you don't seem to be able to do a quick search
do you even read your own sources? clearly you don't. This is from the 1st one.
The allegation made by Jessi about labs reporting “98% positivity rather 9.8%” is not entirely true. The glitch is caused by the Government not reporting the negative results.
So no, the lab did not "cook the books" the results were misreported. Please actually look at sources before posting them. It is embarrassing to have to explain to you why you sources don't say what you think they do.
Sunlight destroys coronavirus quickly, say US scientists
again, please read your sources. This is from the article.
"But the paper itself has not yet been released for review, making it difficult for independent experts to comment on how robust its methodology was."
Basically, this article is on a study that has not released it's results or methodology. Also, they are saying it kills it in the air or on surfaces. Which doesn't help you in person to person contact.
Natural sunlight rapidly inactivates SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus on surfaces
This is from that article
In the present study, 5 µL droplets were used, whereas previous studies used droplet sizes ranging from 5 µL up to 500 µL.
It is known that a range of droplet sizes are present in respiratory expulsion events, and, therefore, a range of droplet sizes are relevant to studies examining the persistence of virus-laden droplets on surfaces.
However, there is evidence that the size of a droplet may affect the subsequent survival of viruses contained within the droplet following deposition on a surface, potentially complicating comparisons of the results between studies in which different droplet sizes were used.
Therefore, additional studies examining the relationship between droplet size and surface persistence are needed to better understand the impact of this parameter on the hazard posed by surface contamination.
So basically, in the smallest of droplets it may kill the virus, but since it is well documented that people expel larger droplets than that, the study is of limited usefulness because they only tested tiny droplets.
this sounds pretty good, but I don't have time to read it all
This is the conclusion of that paper. "The case studies found worldwide indicate that the behavior of the SARS-CoV-2 virus has been unprecedentedly unique with more survival and viable rates in the air and believed to linger in the air for an extended period. "
Their conclusion is that it is entirely possible the virus can stay airborne and spread that way.
So in conclusion, none of your sources prove anything. 1 had not been released, let a lone peer reviewed. 1 only did a test on the smallest of droplet sizes making it of limited usefulness because it is normal for larger droplets to be expelled.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
wait, what? I thought it was the beaches even though sunlight and humidity kills the virus.
no it doesn't. They are looking into whether it affects the virus in the air. It has not been shown to have any effect on person to person transmision, which is the primary threat.
did you see where labs falsely increased their positive numbers by as much as 10 TIMES? and they weren't reporting the negative tests either..... sure do love me some stats!!! lol
by all means, please provide evidence of this.
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@PGA2.0
ok. I am going to wrap this conversation up as you just seem to be rambling about nonsense. Trump has done a shitty job as president. He has flailed around and accomplished very little. He has absolutely bungled the corona virus response which has now killed more than double the number of americans that died in the vietnam war. It has killed something along the lines of 44 times the number of people who died on 9/11. This is the worst crisis america has had in at least a decade, probably longer.
Trump's narcisism and selfishness have killed thousands, if not 10's of thousands of americans. Sadly, more people are going to die for trump's terrible leadership before he can be removed. But at this point, his removal is extremely likely because he is a completely useless president.
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@ILikePie5
Did you even both reading what I wrote? He can’t take concrete steps to do anything.
I'm glad to see you have finally admitted that I have been correct this whole time. I said trump is trying to force schools to reopen without taking any concrete steps to ensure the safety of staff or children.
you just admitted that he has taken no concrete steps to safeguard those people. Since we know he is threatening schools to try to force them to reopen, both of my points are now confirmed. So thank you for confirming I am correct.
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@Greyparrot
The reason why poor people flock to throw away their life savings on lotto tickets is because the rich people that paid for your "free" education system through political corruption WANT you to believe that you can't better yourself. The State teaches you helplessness at an early age.
no, they buy lottery tickets for the same reason they buy into the american dream. They have been taught that they can succeed as long they work hard. But it is a lie. Millions of hard working people struggle to feed their families and pay for health care because the system doesn't give a shit how hard you work. It is designed to squeeze as much money out of you as it can.
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@Greyparrot
"The health risks of keeping schools closed are greater than those of opening them."-Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Robert Redfield
There are definitely health risks to keeping them closed. No one is arguing otherwise. But that quote is not saying we should reopen them with no safety regulations in place and without proper protective equipment. The CDC has a list of recommendations for how schools could open safely, but I have seen no evidence that anyone is planning on actually making sure schools follow them, or have the resources to follow them. Proceeding to force them open without making them safe is a horrible policy that will kill thousands and thousands of people.
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@ILikePie5
Yes. Obama did it with common core. Adopt common core or don’t get federal grant money.
ok, so your position is that it is totally fine for a president the threaten schools to force them to reopen, but that he cannot provide them with any resources to help them re-open safely? That is really what you want to argue?
They can stop funds lol. You’re arguing that he should be forcing schools to follow the CDC rules when he can’t do that because of federalism. Get your act together dude.
You're contradicting yourself. You say that trump has the power to force them to re-open, but he doesn't have the power to force them to follow rules. Which is it? Can he make orders to schools or not?
Are you saying Trump shouldn’t provide federal grants if schools don’t follow the suggestions?
no, i'm suggesting that schools that don't follow the suggestions should be kept closed until they do.
You’re moving the goalposts so hard.
again, no i am not. The goalposts are exactly where they started. I want to know what concrete steps the trump government has taken to make schools safe to reopen. You are saying they can't provide resources, they can't enforce rules. So essentially, you are confirming they they have done nothing but are still threatening them to force them open.
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@ILikePie5
The federal government always provides funds for the the resources. He can’t create rules for local govts. Read up on the concept of federalism
you think the government isn't allowed to provide resources for public schools?
Let’s get one think straight. You clearly don’t understand the concept of federalism. The feds cannot force local governments to follow those rules. They can only reccomend.Now you’re just moving the goalposts. Typical.
nope, the goal posts are exactly where they started. I want to see details of exactly what resources the trump administration is going to give schools, and exactly what rules they will put in place to keep children safe.
So far you seem to be arguing they aren't allowed to give resources and he can't make rules. So basically, you are confirming they he is doing nothing, but arguing that he isn't. It is some weird double think.
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@ILikePie5
There are a lot of reccomendations the CDC puts forth
there is 2 critical parts that:
1) that is not rules or resources being given to schools by the trump government. That is the CDC making suggestions
2) these are suggestions. these aren't rules. If schools don't have the time, resources or training to implement these, then they will still be forced to re-open. So trump is ordering schools to reopen, but not ensuring that things are safe.
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