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@Vader
At least Biden knows how to run a country properly
lol by passing laws to destroy the middle class and lock up poor people. Oh yes, he knows how to run a country so the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. At least he used to. I'm not sure he even knows what state he is in these days, let alone how to run a country.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Trump has plenty of faults, but he doesn't forget and lose his thoughts like Biden.
what? Have you ever seen him talk without a prompter? He can't keep his thoughts straight to save his life. He rambles all over the place.
Biden is the worse choice between the 2 is all I'm saying.
no. Biden is bad. Trump is orders of magnitude worse. At least biden tries to hide his corruption. Trump does it right out in public and brags about it.
I would prefer a more libertarian president, but since one doesn't have a snowball's chance, we have to play the hand we are dealt.
Libertarian would be worse than both.
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@ILikePie5
Difference here is that we have the means to prevent illegal immigration and restrict it. Native Americans couldn’t because the Europeans had far superior technology and resources. It’s a false equivalency.
lol so the difference between your ancestors and the current illegal immigrants is your ancestors murdered the people who already lived here and stole the land. The current illegal immigrants just want a chance to live here with the current inhabitants. I guess it is a false equivalency, your ancestors are much worse.
Then why tf would you want to legalize illegals and accept more immigrants, when our focus should be who the homeless and veterans?
those 2 things have nothing to do with each other. Immigrants increase the tax base, increasing tax revenue and making it easier to take care of homeless and the veterans.
I have no idea why people on the right argue we can't spend money doing something good because there is some other good thing we could do. The answer is really simple, put taxes at a reasonable level and then do both.
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@Mharman
So basically, aid for the poor except for college kids.
no, not really. It is aid for people who can jump through hoops of bureaucracy proving they are the right kind of poor. They will make poor people fight for $1,200 while they throw trillions at rich people and corporations no questions asked with no accountability at all.
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IF people could be honest, Biden should not be president for a many, many reasons, his declining mental state is enough to keep him from being president, IF people could be honest.
agreed. Biden is a bad candidate. His mind is going. But if you could be honest you would say the exact same thing about trump. The guy is a nut job.
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@DrSpy
a). He is the best to get the country out of the depression/recession, cause it was perfect, like the phone call before the pandemic
what does this even mean? trump panders to rich people and screws over the working class. That doesn't get you out of a depression.
b). The pandemic was Chinas fault
this is just dumb. 1) how does that have anything to do with who will win the election? 2) it's a desease. The chinese didn't make it. They didn't try to spread it. Pandemics happen, this one just happens to have started in China.
c) The pandemic response was Obama's fault
what? He hasn't been president for almost 4 years. Trump tore down alot of the pandemic response stuff put in place by Obama. He continually called the disease a hoax and said it would magically disappear causing states and local governments to not take it seriously.
d). Hard hit areas are metro areas, typically Democratic, so it is easy to blame Democratic leadership on poor outcomes
i agree that trump will try to shift blame. Even though it is largely his fault, he takes "0 responsibility" for the consequences of his actions.
e). He deploys the military as a sign it is a war, which has a very powerful message.
so? He was over a month too late in taking this seriously. For gods sake he tried to get the lockdowns to end by Easter just a few days ago. He is far more concerned with getting his golf clubs back open than in saving hundreds of thousands of american lives.
And as LInoln said.... You don't want to swap horses while crossing a stream.
this is assuming the horse isn't retarded and actively trying to drown you. In this case, the president is trying to save rich people and their money, he could care less if you died. Switching horses would be best for everyone.
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@Imabench
TL;DR version, we're all fucked and Trump is getting a second term because Joe Biden is a dumpster fire of a candidate.
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@Imabench
totally agree. They wasted huge sums of money on stock buy backs that are just designed to boost their stock price. Now they come begging and crying, pleading poverty when they burned their own cash reserves.
They have learned the lessons of the past. The corporatists in charge of both the republican and democratic parties will never let their businesses die. So they can do whatever they want and the government will just bail them out while leaving the poor to starve.
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@triangle.128k
The whole damn thing is a mess. Companies that don't even need any help are getting billions. People who desperately need help are getting a fraction of what they need to stay alive. This bill is not intended to help americans. It is intended to help the rich and powerful. It will help the kind of people who write big checks to the democratic and republican party. They will make out like bandits while the poor suffer.
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@Greyparrot
Then why are they fucking it up so bad in California, Michigan and New York? Objectively the worst places to be as a homeless person
because these places are primarily run by corporatists. They aren't even on the left. They believe in right wing economic policies that make the rich richer and the poor poorer. They pretend they are on the left by pushing for left wing social policies (gay marriage, etc). But without the left wing economic policy to back it up, it is useless.
Your wealth as a homeless person in a Democratic State is dependant on State welfare which is capped at whatever level the State sees fit. No rung on the ladder for you. No upward mobility. No opportunity. Generational poverty is your future in those states.
i agree. That is why we need actually left wing policy, not just lip service while screwing over the poor. Basically, both republicans and establishment democrats actively screw over the poor because they are bought and paid for corporatists.
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Regardless we are not the world's welfare, merit based immigration, period. That is what's fair to the legal citizens, especially to the poor and homeless citizens. The left likes to forget about them, but I don't.
I don't recall anyone on the left advocating for anything other than merit based immigration. People on the right just like to whine about open borders and then don't listen.
Fair would be no homeless citizens, veterans etc.
you realize that these are policies the left supports right? They want to help every american citizen. Give them schooling, housing, a job etc. It is the right that wants to prevent the government from actually doing anything positive for the working class and the poor.
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@Greyparrot
You misspelled illegal immigrant.
and in a system that provides no way for most people to do it legally, that distinction becomes rather pointless. If the right actually cared about the problem they would want comprehensive reform to allow alot more immigrants in legally. then the manpower needs could be met and there wouldn't be a need to criminalize people. But that isn't what most people on the right want. Their arguments are just race baiting nonsense.
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@Greyparrot
Yah, cause the Native Americans put the pilgrims to work immediately on their corporate agriculture. Stop being a fuckstick apologist for slave wage corporations.
i don't recall ever doing that. Why do you consistently straw man everything?
You claim to like Bernie Sanders but go completely deaf when Bernie says open borders is a corporate Koch Brothers policy, cause crony capitalist establishment Democrats AND crony establishment RINO Republicans have programmed you to ignore that
Yet more straw mans. I have never advocated for "open borders". Although at this point that means literally nothing and is used in any scenario for anyone who doesn't want every single immigrant imprisoned or killed.
I really used to like Bernie almost as much as Trump for fighting the establishment before he clearly sold out to the establishment.
in what way has he sold out to the establishment? The establishment like things the way they are now. You condemn them, demonize them, but profit off them. That is what the republican party does. That is what trump does.
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@Greyparrot
Democrats, defending slave labor for generations.
lol because bringing immigrants into a nation where virtually everyone is descended from immigrants means that I support slavery. I understand right wing people love to use straw man arguments, but this is just sad.
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@Greyparrot
you missed my point. I didn't say america couldn't do those things, I said it would destroy the standard of living of most of the population. Avacados grown in a hydroponic farm cost several times as much. If america had to try to rebuild those industries from scratch, it would cost a fortune. The vast majority of the population would see their standard of living shattered over night. That is the sort of thing that starts a revolution.Then you have no understanding of human ingenuity. For fuck's sake we can grow avocados in hydroponic farms. What the fuck do we need other countries for? Fossil fuels? Nope. Rare minerals? Nope. Rare foods? Nope. We can even grow our own illegal drugs.
So what if China cuts us off from medicine. We got this in a matter of months, just like anything else we used to get from China.
this is just sad. Do you have any idea how long it takes to set up of manufacturing and testing process to create all these things. It took decades to ship it all to china. It would take years, maybe decades to try to put it back. And during those years most of the population would struggling to survive as the rich continue to consume all the resources (as they always do).
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@Greyparrot
Nah, then it becomes a very simple supply/demand calculus by then. People will pay more for American grown food. End of story. No Slave-wages Civil War era economy needed at all.
So you think that entire industries that have been completely wiped out will simply spring out of nothing over night? And there won't be mass shortages of those items? That is not how the world works. Even a few days interruption in supply chains can cause shortages. If china decided they didn't want to trade with the US for certain items, alot of people would die. Alot of people would go bankrupt.
America is NOT wealthy because of foreign trade. It's wealthy DESPITE it, as we regularly run trade deficits on a yearly basis all over the globe simply because we can afford it.
you clearly have little understanding of how trade works. A trade deficit is not inherently a bad thing. It is not a sign of how wealthy or poor a country is.
We could close off all trade and be completely self-sufficient within a few years if we wanted to.
lol now i am 100% you have little understanding of how trade works. There is no chance america could successfully become completely self sufficient. It would obliterate the standard of living of 95% of the population and cause mass riots.
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@Greyparrot
Absolutely. Economies are forced to retool on a yearly basis due to technological changes anyway, so having a tiny portion of the GDP getting retooled through immigration enforcement to something Americans can benefit in the forms of other JOBS is a win/win for all Americans.
So when china decides they don't want to export to us anymore, then what? Will americans think it is such a great win when the american economy completely collapses because it is completely dependent on foreign countries to prop it up?
Think about it this way. Was the Civil War-era North suffering much economically after the South lost their slave labor industry? Hell no. They just retooled the economy and everything was fine.
The north grew their own food. Mined their own metals, refined them into tools. America won't be doing any of that any more. It will be 100% dependent on other countries to provide it's materials. And if those countries decide they would rather not do that any more, the american economy collapses.
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@Greyparrot
Absolutely. I don't give a flying fuck if slave-wage industries file for bankruptcy, even if they represent less than 1% of the GDP.Lawful businesses can come in and take over.
OK, Let me press a little further. Are you ok with all of america's industries being shipped overseas? Would you be in favor of all american factories, farms etc being shut down?
American agriculture cannot compete with south american farms who can pay slave labour wages. It simply isn't going to happen. Are you ok with being america completely dependent on countries like china to survive?
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@ethang5
Imagine you find a squatter having broken into your basement, using your water, gas, and electricity, and when you try to kick him out, some idiot tells you he helps pay you utility bills, so he has a right to stay.
your argument makes no sense. Immigrants are paying for houses, rent etc. They are not squatters. They are also paying taxes when they are completely unable to receive any services for those taxes they are paying.
What he pays is immaterial.
agreed. But the right loves to whine about how much money immigrants cost america, then want to quickly change the subject when you point out how much money america makes in taxes off of them when they can't draw on any of the services they are paying taxes for.
Did America tell anyone that it needed help to pay its taxes? The only salient point is that the squatter has no right to be in your house without your permission, whatever he "pays".
Your argument appears to be to target the poor people trying to earn a living. But they aren't the problem. The problem is the thousands of american companies that love to hire them and exploit them. If you actually cared about stopping illegal immigrants, you would be advocating for the imprisonment of the people hiring them and exploiting them. but of course trump would be on that list.
We have a market driven economy. If we didn't have illegal immigrants, demand for farm workers would go up, and the corresponding pay would go up, so we would have more legal immigration and more Americans go into the sector till there was a balance of supply with demand.
this assumes that the immigration system is in any way tied to market forces, which it isn't. It is controlled by a partisan political system. So this is absolutely not what would happen.
Food prices would go up, but would not go higher than the market could sustain, and demand for farm workers would correspondingly fall to balance falling demand for high foodstuffs.
also no. the price of american food products would go up. Making foreign food products much more cost effective. No one would buy american food products and large segments of the american agriculture industry would collapse, as well as lots of other industries.
Liberals are playing a political game because they know they can't win elections without poor, uninformed, people looking for handouts.
again, no. The democratic establishment are trying to appeal to upper middle class white people primarily. They are appealing to the political donor class who want 1) to be able to exploit those workers and 2) want to feel like they are good people, even while they do shitty things.
neither republican politicians nor the democratic establishment actually give a shit about immigrants or working class people in general.
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@Greyparrot
No, they don't lol. Slave wage business owners do.
So you are fine with large sectors of the american economy collapsing?
Do defend the slave wage industry for me. Defend the coyote industry. Do it.
lol i'm doing the exact opposite. I am saying that america needs to massively increase legal immigration and make it easier for these people to become US citizens. Then they can unionize. Then there will be no need for coyotes.
In a country where the food prices are so low, that we give billions in tax-funded farm subsidies to slave-wage Big Agriculture. Tell me in a country that has about 3% at most of the GDP coming from agriculture how the ENTIRE country will fail if they had to charge more for food to pay Americans to produce that food.
I'm not telling you the the country will fail. I'm telling you it would destroy entire sectors of the economy. The US agriculture sector would collapse. As would a number of other sectors. There simply isn't enough labor in America to meet the needs of those industries without massive numbers of immigrants. At the moment they all have to be illegal immigrants since not enough legal ones can get into the country.
Tell me how a nation rife with diabetes can't afford higher-priced food.
Healthy foods are usually much more expensive than unhealthy ones. If healthy foods get more expensive, it would only increase the dependency of poor people on cheap and unhealthy foods. It would increase rates of diabetes.
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@Imabench
I'm not sure it really matters who he picks. I don't think he has any chance of beating trump. He is a horrible candidate that very few people would actually be excited to go vote for. Being the lesser of 2 evils doesn't convince people to go out to vote for you. Picking a token VP won't do anything to convince people that Biden is a good candidate.
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If things were "fair" wouldn't people here illegally be deported?
of course not. If things were fair, they would have had a legal path to immigrate. Then there would be no crimes here and everyone would be better off.
They are breaking the law and should pay the consequences for doing so like the rest of us, that would be fair.
your argument doesn't really make any sense. The US relies on their labor. The agriculture industry would probably fall apart without them, along with lots of other industries. The issue is that due to ridiculous ideology, the US paints them as "evil invaders" when most politicians know that the US desperately needs them. So they demonize them publicly, do nothing to let them immigrate legally, but also don't do anything to stop the practices that lead to them coming. The only way to stop them coming would be to go after the companies hiring them. But they will never do that because those companies are big campaign donors. Hell, trump himself has a long history of hiring illegal immigrants. The problem isn't the immigrants, it is the corrupt political and economic system that feeds off of them and then discards them when it is convenient.
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@Greyparrot
Trump only asked questions. He didn't have anyone illegally surveilled and did not imprison his political enemies.
trump openly accused a sitting president of being invalid to hold that office. You say hilary questioning trump's validity is somehow a problem, but when Trump did it he's "only asking questions"? Do you hear your own hypocrisy?
Trump didn't support impeachment against Bill Clinton and sympathized with Bill Clinton in an interview with Chris Matthews in 1998.
so? Clinton lied about a blow job. Trump openly abuses his power for personal profit and power. The 2 things are in no way similar.
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@Imabench
I think warren is bitter. She felt (and still feels) she deserved the nomination. But as her candidacy burned as she shifted right, rather than take a look at herself and her own failings that caused her candidacy to fall apart, she appears to be blaming Bernie for it.
2 - Her political future as of right now appears to have hit its ceiling thanks predominantly to Bernie
I'm guessing this is how she sees it. But really she has only herself to blame.
4 - If Warren's biggest goal is to defeat Trump, Warren may again put strategy over Ideology and endorse Biden over Sanders in 2020
i'm not sure this makes any sense. Biden is probably the weakest candidate to put against trump. Trump will crush him. The man can't even remember what office he is running for.
5 - Warren would have more of a voice and boost chances of winning as Biden's VP compared to being Sanders' VP
I don't think biden would even consider Warren for VP.
Bottom line, I think you are right. She is a bitter old woman who feels bernie has taken something from her when the truth is she lost it herself. She may very well sell out and endorse Biden over bernie just like she did with hilary in 2016. But just like in 2016, she won't get a VP pick for it. She will just further destroy her reputation as a political back stabber and sellout.
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@Greyparrot
Because in 2016 Obama started Crossfire Hurricane with illegal FISA investigations. That isn't handing over power peacefully.
Potential criminal activity was investigated. Then they handed power over exactly as they were supposed to. That isn't evidence that supports you.
Clinton delegitimized the election before Trump took the oath claiming Russia installed Trump as a puppet, so we shouldn't recognize Trump as a legitimate president.
Do you have any idea how many republicans (including trump) suggested that Obama wasn't a legitimate president? If that is the bar you want to set, then much of the republican party is guilty of that.
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@Greyparrot
has any democrat ever refused to hand over power?Umm...how about all the Congressional Dems save a few that voted for faux impeachment?
What does that have to do with the question? You said dems wouldn't hand over power when they were supposed to. Your examples was them exercising their constitutionally mandated responsibility to impeach a president who had violated his oath of office and abused the power of his office.
The two things are not related. One was the dems doing exactly what the constitution says they should, the other is you suggesting they would refuse to do what the constitution says they should (without any evidence).
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@Greyparrot
Democrats don't know how to hand over the power rei(g)ns peacefully, which is why the party is doomed, whether Bernie wins the nomination or not.
has any democrat ever refused to hand over power? Have they even ever suggested that they wouldn't? This statement makes no sense.
Trump on the other hand has made numerous comments suggesting he would refuse to hand over power. It's amazing how much republicans project trump's issues onto the democrats.
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@ILikePie5
It’s a pretty simple question. If no one gets 270 and it goes to the House and they choose Trump, would you be fine with that?
why would that happen?
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@ethang5
A lacking of high-profile endorsements with a fragile voter base combining with forced time away from the campaign trail could very much fuck over Warren, especially if the Impeachment trial drags out for a lengthy amount of time. Short of Hillary or Obama themselves endorsing Warren and being willing to campaign for her, Trump Impeachment could end up dooming Warrens future in politics the most.He turned out to be correct.
Warren had already tanked before impeachment reached the Senate. Impeachment trial began January 16th. Warren was down 10 points from her high water mark by then.
Plus, Sanders is the one who took over as the front runner. He was stuck in the exact same room as Warren.
She destroyed her credibility with progressives by becoming more and more friendly with establishment figures, bungling medicare for all, carrying out desperate hit jobs on Sanders etc. She pushed her campaign towards relying on upper middle class white people, which happened to be the exact same base as Buttigieg and Klobochar. They ended up eating her lunch.
The trial had nothing to do with her tanking. She did that all herself.
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@ILikePie5
In a 269-269 tie the House would select Trump as the President. Would you support that?
i don't understand what you are trying to ask.
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@ethang5
impeachment didn't doom warren. Warren acting like typical backroom dealing politician doomed warren. Her candidacy was based on her being progressive and honest. When she started being slimy she destroyed her campaign.
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@Greyparrot
You have no clue how many people the IRS bankrupted, do you?
please find me a statistic that says the IRS bankrupts millions of people. Because that is how many the healthcare industry bankrupts.
Gotta pay for your favorite fanclub D.C. oligarchs somehow, right?
only people on the right could think that giving people healthcare is somehow a terrible thing.
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@Dr.Franklin
2020, democrats dont care, they need a blue wave under anyone as republicans has won the majority of years ending in 0's for gerrymandering
Democrats are by no means a single group. You have multiple different groups inside that one.
For example you have people like nancy pelosi. She would love to rob bernie of the nomination, but I suspect she might balk at tearing the party apart.
You have the party establishment officials (not elected members of government) these people make their money off controlling the democratic political machine. They rake in huge amounts of money from rich donors and they know how to personally profit from this process. They have been raking in tons of money since Trump won because they point at trump and say he is dangerous. So while they would love to get rid of trump, he does not interrupt their wealth and power. People like this would love to steal the nomination from sanders, and they would be willing to tear the party apart to do it. They would rather trump wins than sanders does. Sanders threatens them much more.
You have the democratic political donors. These people get both profit and prestige from buying connections in the DNC. They know that Sanders won't take their bribes. They also might be willing to let the party be torn apart to prevent Sanders winning because he would close the doors of power to them. And a democratic party that won't do what they want, isn't useful to them. most of these people donate to both sides anyway.
you also have the political pundit class. These people make a fortune off of predicting who will do what in politics. But for the last 4 years they have proven they don't know a damn thing. And if Sanders wins (and they have been bashing him this whole time) no one is going to want to hear their opinions any more. CNN isn't going to pay some corporatist hack to bad mouth the democratic nominee (because it's bad for business). These people would also rather trump won than Sanders. If trump wins they can spend another 4 years whining on air while they cash their checks. If Sanders wins, they are probably out of work.
Add to this that they are all completely delusional. They have worked themselves into a frenzy telling themselves that reality isn't real. They see the polls saying Bernie has the best chance of beating trump, but they can't bring themselves to believe it and go on to argue the exact opposite. That somehow biden (who doesn't know what state he's in or what job he's running for) is somehow the best candidate to run. Alot of these people honestly believe that they are patriots trying to save america, when in reality they are traitors trying to burn their own party to the ground.
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@Vader
Bernie will to. Socialism fails and Bernie is a socialist.
Bernie will crush trump.
Bernie owns 3 houses
he owns 2 house (1 in vermont and one in DC) since he needs to work in both places. He also owns a cabin. I don't know why right wing people thing this is some sort of attack.
and never had a legit job.
He has been fighting for, and protecting, people for his entire life. That is a very legit job.
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@bmdrocks21
a) Sanders gets robbed again
the democratic party is dead. at least 30% of the party, not to mention large numbers of independents will never trust the democratic party again. They may even end up splitting off and forming a new party. They will destroy their credibility with most people under 35.
b) Sanders loses legitimately
Biden will lose to trump.
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@Imabench
but with Buttigieg pulling the plug that whole narrative is bunk and the lesser campaigns will have to find another excuse to stay in the race when the odds are clearly, if not definitively against them.
I disagree. Buttigieg getting out is all about triggering a contested convention. They will then use the convention and the super delegates to crown a less popular candidate. They will claim this candidate is a "unity" candidate. (in reality it will just be blatant corruption undermining democracy)
I think that warren is staying in this right to the convention (as long as she doesn't run out of money). She is essentially just a spoiler candidate trying to keep Sanders' numbers down below 50%. As long as sanders doesn't get a majority they can still steal this thing. Warren is hoping that she can get enough delegates that she can play kingmaker at the convention. She is trying to get something for herself. She is a cynical backroom dealer now.
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@Dr.Franklin
absolutely not, the democrats in congress have shown continuous complete hatred and anger towards this president and the nonstop calling Rump a white nationalist,racist,rapist, blah blah blah blahThey would rather ANYONE than Trump
I'm not sure that's true. They hate trump, that is absolutely true. But Trump doesn't ultimately threaten their power in the same way sanders does. If trump wins, these people still control the democratic party. They will get paid gigs on CNN, write a book about their career etc. They know how to profit and protect their power in Trump's world.
But if sanders wins, their power could go up in smoke. How do get a political pundit job on MSNBC if you are an establishment (corrupt) democrat in a post sanders world? No one is going to want to listen to you. No one is going to need to buy influence from you. If sanders won they wouldn't just be in opposition to the government, they would be truly on the outside of the democratic apparatus. They are terrified of losing their power and influence to sanders.
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@ILikePie5
He’s talking with Governors and other high ranking state officials to coordinate resources and plans.
according to who exactly? And you just said he wasn't managing anything. Now is in in charge of co-ordination? Either he is managing or he isn't.
I don’t think you’re understanding. The suggestions the courses of actions come from healthcare officials in the CDC and HHS. They relay this information to Mike Pence and he relays it to the President if need be and to the Governors.
So he is a secretary? He takes messages and passes them along. He isn't managing anything or even doing anything that a 10 year old couldn't do.
your point was that democrats shouldn't obstruct it. I explained that they aren't and your point was invalid.They’re criticizing Trump for absolutely no reason lol.
They are criticizing him for mismanagement of a crisis. That is a very good reason.
I’m talking about the funds. Instead of criticizing the President they should get to work and pass the emergency funding that the Executive requested.
do you have any evidence that there has been any delay in congress doing this?
nd Trump has been at work. He’s banned travel from areas, restricted travel from affected areas, etc. Are you implying that Trump isn’t fighting the crisis or that he doesn’t want to? Cause that’s blatantly false.
I'm not saying he doesn't want to. I'm saying he is incompetent and is mismanaging the crisis.
Republicans in Congress also agreed. It was bipartisan. The current question is of the virus. Stop wasting your breath condemning Trump for his past actions and work to help all of America.
umm no. Democrats didn't agree to the cuts, that is why they didn't happen. It was trump and his lapdog republicans in congress thought it was a good idea to cut funding to all the agencies we need to protect us.
A.) Trump did not want the cruise ship passengers back in the mainland
I know, he would rather them die locked on a boat. He is such a compasionate man.
B.) The CDC has all the resources it needs. If someone wasn’t trained, it’s not Trump’s fault, it’s whoever was in charge’s fault
It wasn't the CDC that was the problem. It was employees of the department of health. But if resources were being managed effectively, that would never have happened. Trump, and his administration, are managing the response to this crisis. It is their ineptitude that caused government employees to not be trained or provided protective equipment.
C.) I would like to see a source for this.
Here is an article about it.
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@Dr.Franklin
Bidens coming back!
No. The question isn't is biden coming back. It is, can they keep Bernie from getting 51% of the delegates. Preferably (to them) lower than like 45% or 40% of the delegates. Then they will use super delegates to steal the nomination.
They are either 1) too stupid to understand this will destroy them and hand the election to trump
or 2) they know that, but would rather lose to trump than win with Bernie.
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@ILikePie5
Democratic Party elites trying to unify moderates against Bernie. Probably offered him VA Secretary or something.
I think their goal is to keep people from being under the 15% line in California. Recent polling showed everyone but bernie under that line. If bernie had been the only "viable" candidate he would have netted a huge amount of delegates and may have gotten a majority before the convention.
If 1 or 2 other candidates are viable then sanders' lead going into the convention will be smaller and then they can rig the contested convention. The move is aimed at allowed them to subvert democracy.
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@ILikePie5
Yes pretty much. He just checks in now and then to see what’s up opand received updates which he can relay to the President.
ok. so you assume he is doing nothing. Then the big announcement means nothing and they need to announce who is actually running things since pence is too incompetent.
Then who is managing it? Do you think the president (the guy who called it a hoax) is managing it?The healthcare offficials.
Who? That is the whole point. Trump made a big show of putting someone in charge. You are saying he isn't actually in charge and isn't doing anything. So no one is managing this crisis as far as you know.
Good, more funding. You think he cares lol? 8.5 billion is perfectly fine. He’s said as much.
your point was that democrats shouldn't obstruct it. I explained that they aren't and your point was invalid.
Where’s the money then? Maybe instead of constantly criticizing the President they should get to work.
what are you talking about? congress approves the money, but they don't actually have any role in managing the crisis. That is trump's job. Maybe he should get to work.
The funds haven’t been cut though. Congress has rejected these cuts.
Agreed. Trump tried hard to screw over america, the democrats refused to let him. And now here we are with a perfect example of how the democrats are working hard to save america from trump.
They’re idiots if they didn’t show up with protective gear.
No, they were ordered to go. Trump's team provided no training and no gear. That is a failure of management. And you know who is in charge of that? Trump.
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@Greyparrot
If the Oligarchs in D.C. can't be trusted to manage Capitalism without succumbing to crony bribes, how on earth can the same people be trusted to manage Socialism?
no one is suggesting that the memebers of the DNC be allowed to manage it. They are uncollected corrupt polical hacks. But that is why under a president sanders we would also primary alot of the old guard corrupt democrats.
But they couldn't do any worse than the corrupt oligarchs that are bankrupting millions of people right now.
The Oligarchs in D.C. can just directly take a cut without any PAC middlemen under Socialism, no wonder politicians love the system.
take a cut of what? What are you even talking about?
It's almost as if the average voter doesn't give a fuck about government corruption, which is likely if most of the voter's basic needs are met.
lol imagine that, if you have your needs taken care of, you are happy. Perhaps if the republicans actually put some effort into providing for voters needs sanders wouldn't be so wildly popular.
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It's unclear this really changes much though. Here is a poll showing his supporters 2nd choices are fairly evenly split between sanders (21%), biden (19%), Warren (17%) and bloomberg (17%)
It remains to seen who, if anyone, this actually helps.
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@Vader
I thought he’d drop after Tuesday. Kinda surprised but not shocked.
There was some kind of backroom deal. Someone offered him something to drop out before super tuesday. Either Biden or Bloomberg bribed him.
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@ILikePie5
No he’s not. He’s just being reported to so he can have direct lines to the President.
so in your mind, the job means absolutely nothing. He isn't managing anything. Then who is managing it? Do you think the president (the guy who called it a hoax) is managing it?
Maybe you should watch the rallies.
you think i want to waste my time by watching a narcissist lie dozens of times to the applause of cultists?
And he has said taken actions that are unprecedented.
What actions has he taken specifically? or are you just repeating talking points?
He’s requested additional funds as well.
Democrats pushed him to ask for the funding. They want him to ask for more.
You can walk and chew gum at the same time. Criticizing him is fine. But give him the money the agencies need to combat this crisis.
ok, no one has suggested refusing to provide any and all resources the government needs to handle the crisis. So please don't pretend that anyone has.
But their bungling is going to get alot of people killed. For example Trump has been trying to cut funding to the agencies needed to handle this. When they sent people to transport the american's on that cruise ship, they gave them no training and no protective gear. They showed up and found CDC employees in safety equipment and they didn't even have a mask. They had face to face contact with infected people and had no protective gear.
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@ILikePie5
If Democrats can’t count votes in Iowa, what makes you think they can run our healthcare
You are comparing a political organization with the government. They are 2 very different things.
American ideology lies on individual liberty, not total government control
and medicare for all would further increase the liberty of americans. It would allow all americans to get medical care anywhere they want. No more being refused because you have the wrong insurance or no insurance. That is much greater freedom than the current system allows.
And there have been numerous projections that M4A would cost trillions, not save millions.
Of course it will cost trillions. But that is what the insurance industry costs right now. America is already paying trillions for healthcare. M4A will save hundreds of billions of dollars over the next 10 years.
Add in the cost of running a bureaucracy and I’m sure your price skyrockets.
No, it actually massively reduces bureaucracy. The current system has massive amounts of bureaucracy. Different plans and different companies offering different levels of service, different prices for the same service, some hospitals/doctors are covered and some aren't. It is extremely complicated and difficult to manage. It takes a huge amount of staff, paperwork and money to use this system.
M4A by comparison is super simple. Everyone is covered at all hospitals and all doctors. There is only 1 plan to bill to and everyone will know what it covers. It saves a fortune in bureaucracy.
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@bmdrocks21
It affects other people when you make us pay for the student loans of people with stupid degrees that they would never be able to get a job with. Their stupidity affects me when I have to pay for the healthcare costs of obese drug addicts under M4A.
does it though? it would have a tiny impact on you at worst. And the massive benefits that would come from M4A (the hundreds of billions saved, the millions of prevented bankruptcies, the 10's of thousands of lives saved) would counter act those costs anyway. So no, it wouldn't really affect you, you would still be much better off.
When I have to pay unemployment benefits and food stamps towards people who refuse to work,
this is a pretty constant trope the right makes. The idea that poor people are just lazy. The idea is dumb. There are a small number of people who choose not to work. But the vast majority of people on unemployment and food stamps don't want to be. They simply can't break out of a cycle of poverty that republican policies helped to create.
9 out of 10 plans Democrats propose involve me paying for someone else’s misfortune or stupidity.
this is really short term thinking that is self defeating. It's like saying that you don't have children, so why should you have to pay taxes for schools. Or, you don't drive on interstates, so why should you have to pay taxes to maintain roads. In an extremely limited sense you would have a point. But without those things our society is much, much worse off. Even if you don't personally benefit from some of those programs, society as a whole very much does. So you do as well. Trying to cut them or prevent them is short sighted and counter productive.
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@Greyparrot
hehe. I put 500 dollars on Trump. will probably make an easy 350-400 dollars back.
well if the DNC manage to steal the nomination from Bernie, then it's easy money. Biden would get destroyed by Trump. But every talking head on cable is trying their hardest to convince people he can win (for reasons they can't really explain).
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@ILikePie5
Pence is just the person they report too because he has 24/7 direct lines with the President.
he is running the show. He is managing it. And what experience he does have in this field is extremely bad.
Even if Trump did make a mistake, put it aside if you want to help Americans.
If trump came out and said something like "i was wrong, this is serious" then fine. At least he would be showing that he is trying to deal with it. As far as I know he hasn't done that. In fact he is calling it a hoax.
How does me not criticizing the incompetence and mismanagement of a crisis help Americans? If you want to help americans you need to criticize them so they get off their ass and actually handle this crisis. Letting them off the hook with no criticism will only get more americans killed.
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@Greyparrot
You can triple your money there right now.
there is still a reasonably good chance the DNC will try to rob him of the nomination and destroy the democratic party. Their corruption and self dealing runs so deep that they are terrified of losing their cash cow by having a progressive (who doesn't need or want their corruption) being the nominee.
Also, I don't gamble.
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